Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[goober]

What's the original pressure of that cylinder when it is full?

2000 psi i'm pretty sure

 

[Mthom2]

I'm in the process of ordering industrial grade nitrogen. They said it's 99.9% pure, but didn't indicate what other gasses make up the remaining %. I'm worried that it contains a tiny amount of CO2, which seems like that might run the risk of triggering a hypoxia alarm (or whatever the term is for suffocation panic caused by elevated levels of CO2).

Would that be the case?

 

[GasMonkey]

2000 psi i'm pretty sure

2000 psi isn't a standardized pressure for consumer grade Nitrogen gas cylinders, it has to be 150 bar (~2200 psi) or 200 bar (2900 psi).

Now that the cylinder is at 103 bar (1500 psi):
▪ If the original pressure of the cylinder was 150 bar, you have 151 L left.
▪ If the original pressure of the cylinder was 200 bar, you have 113 L left.
Is not enough gas to have safety margins.

If the cylinder was full, 220 L will give you 14 minutes at 15 LPM (if using a constant flow implementation), that's enough to CTB since death happens at 5~10mins but it's better to have a bigger safety margin, and also you have to spend gas to inflate the bag before using it so it's too close. A small 2L 200bar cylinder (400L uncompressed) which is just 43cm tall gives you 26 minutes at 15 LPM. The most balanced size it 5L 200bar, which has 1000L and it's still a small and easily manageable cylinder. If using SCBA the gas comsumption will be reduced by 50% (since it only pumps on-demand instead of constant flow).​

They said it's 99.9% pure

That's enough, @LetzteAusfahrt assisted suicide with a 2.8 (99.8%) cylinder successfully.
But if you can get a better one like 4.0 (99.99%) or 5.0 (99.999%), go for it, specially if it is also Food Grade (called "E941" in EU).

 

[goober]

2000 psi isn't a standardized pressure for consumer grade Nitrogen gas cylinders, it has to be 150 bar (~2200 psi) or 200 bar (2900 psi).

Now that the cylinder is at 103 bar (1500 psi):
▪ If the original pressure of the cylinder was 150 bar, you have 151 L left.
▪ If the original pressure of the cylinder was 200 bar, you have 113 L left.
Is not enough gas to have safety margins.

If the cylinder was full, 220 L will give you 14 minutes at 15 LPM (if using a constant flow implementation), that's enough to CTB since death happens at 5~10mins but it's better to have a bigger safety margin, and also you have to spend gas to inflate the bag before using it so it's too close. A small 2L 200bar cylinder (400L uncompressed) which is just 43cm tall gives you 26 minutes at 15 LPM. The most balanced size it 5L 200bar, which has 1000L and it's still a small and easily manageable cylinder. If using SCBA the gas comsumption will be reduced by 50% (since it only pumps on-demand instead of constant flow).​

That's enough, @LetzteAusfahrt assisted suicide with a 2.8 (99.8%) cylinder successfully.
But if you can get a better one like 4.0 (99.99%) or 5.0 (99.999%), go for it, specially if it is also Food Grade (called "E941" in EU).

The website says "working pressure: 100 bar" and it's 99.995% food grade. It's the nitrogen cylinder listed on the PPeH under the NZ section. Also I'm using the exit bag method. What do you think my chances are of ctb if i go through with it? If it's risky i'm still willing to take my chances, but if it's more likely I'll end up with brain damage, I don't want to risk it. It's not possible for me to get another tank, so this one is the only chance I have for this method.

 

[Mthom2]

They also have food grade. It's a little more expensive, but not by much. I'm just having issues finding info on the purity for all grades aside from ultra pure.

Just sent an email with gobs of product info questions. Hopefully they'll answer and my lack of knowledge won't red flag me.

 

[GasMonkey]

under the NZ section

Is one of those disposable cylinders? What regulator do you have? Does it have a flow meter?

 

[goober]

Is one of those disposable cylinders? What regulator do you have? Does it have a flow meter?

Yes, it is a disposable cylinder. I have a duel gauge regulator. This is what it looks like:

 

[GasMonkey]

It doesn't have a flow meter, so you can't set it up to supply the optimal flow rate of 15 LPM.

 

[goober]

It doesn't have a flow meter, so you can't set it up to supply the optimal flow rate of 15 LPM.

so, it's not possible for me to use this method?

 

[GasMonkey]

Not with that equipment.

 

[goober]

can I use an argon flow meter for nitrogen?

also, what is the gauge on the left for? thanks for answering my questions

 

[GasMonkey]

can I use an argon flow meter for nitrogen?

Do you mean attaching a flow meter to your regulator?

what is the gauge on the left for?

Output pressure.

 

[GasMonkey]

I'm seeing older posts of mine and looks like with the SS change from .org to .net a lot of hyperlinks have been lost. :(

 

[goober]

Do you mean attaching a flow meter to your regulator?

I mean getting a new regulator entirely that has a flow meter. Is it possible to attach a flow meter to my regulator?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

I think you need an adapter for your disposable tank to attach a standard regulator or flowmeter. But one of this small bottles is too little. I can imagine that you take 2 of these bottles, each with flowmeter, connected with "t-connector" or "y-connector".

 

[GasMonkey]

I mean getting a new regulator entirely that has a flow meter.

No, the small disposable cylinders don't have the standard N₂ connection.

Is it possible to attach a flow meter to my regulator?

Not sure, you would have to check the thread size/type of the regulator and flow meter, but anyway Greenberg always says that it has to be an integrated flow regulator (with an integrated flow meter), which is not the same as attaching a flow meter to a pressure regulator.

The integrated flow meters look like this:

 

[goober]

The integrated flow meters look like this:

right, so is it possible to use and argon regulator for nitrogen?

 

[GasMonkey]

Yep.

 

[ThisIsLife]

My latest proposed SCBA setup is around ~$180 (cylinder not included) depending on the shipping and taxes. You would need to determine the correct adapter for your regulator tho. The Canadian source has entire kits ready to use but they are expensive.

Where did you buy all of these for that cheap?

 

[GasMonkey]

Where did you buy all of these for that cheap?

The regulator is from the N₂ supplier recommened in the PPeH for EU, is a low output pressure regulator (0-10 bar) which are the cheapest ones.

The downside of this setup is that the hose of the demand valve can be a little too short.

Mask and the demand valve are from 4L1B4B4. Both are the same used by the EM SCBA kit (but in that kit the demand valve is modified with a longer hose and the proper connector for the medical regulator that the kit uses).

Is not my current setup btw, my current setup is SCBA gear with an air-to-nitrogen adapter (DIN#13 to DIN#10) to be able to connect the SCBA regulator to a Nitrogen cylinder, like DOGMA67 did. This technique was invented by SCUBA CTB pioneer Scrooge, later used by SlovakGuy (first documented case) and also used by @LetzteAusfahrt to assist suicide.

 

[goober]

Would this regulator work?
does anybody know where i can find an adapter to fit an M10 thread?

 

[GasMonkey]

Would this regulator work?

Yep it should work. But if you can get a native N₂ regulator go for it.

does anybody know where i can find an adapter to fit an M10 thread?

M10 to What?

 

[goober]

M10 to What?

to G5/8in i'm pretty sure

 

[GasMonkey]

To connect the regulator with a standard N₂ connection to the connection of the disposable cylinder? Maybe you could find an adapter, but you have to be sure that it is prepared to support the cylinder's pressure (which is very high). There are adapters capable of this, like the air-to-nitrogen adapters that the people who build SCBA/SCUBA setups use which support 200 or even 300 bar.

 

[goober]

To connect the regulator with a standard N₂ connection to the connection of the disposable cylinder? Maybe you could find an adapter, but you have to be sure that it is prepared to support the cylinder's pressure (which is very high). There are adapters capable of this, like the air-to-nitrogen adapters that the people who build SCBA/SCUBA setups use which support 200 or even 300 bar.

you know where to find these?

 

[missingpeace]

I have a 500L Argon gas tank (Cylinder size C in Australia). Will that be enough? Also I don't have a flow meter, going to just keep the flow minimal.. will that be alright?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

I have a 500L Argon gas tank (Cylinder size C in Australia). Will that be enough? Also I don't have a flow meter, going to just keep the flow minimal.. will that be alright?

500l are sufficent. Do you have a pressure reducer?

 

[missingpeace]

500l are sufficent. Do you have a pressure reducer?

Yes, I got a pressure regulator

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Yes, I got a pressure regulator

The German Jessica Dueber wrote in a book: If you have no flow meter, the outlet pressure should be between 1 and 3 bar and the bag should be filled between 40 and 60 seconds - then should the flow be an estimated 15l/min. (But you cannot rely on it.)

 

[GasMonkey]

you know where to find these?

You could try AL13xpr3ss or AL1B4b4, but keep in mind that not all possible adapters exist.

Argon gas tank

Argon is the worst inert gas to use with the ExitBag due to its weight (less eficient CO₂ purging).
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/x.79943/#post-1430861
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/x.79943/#post-1682926
The best gas for the ExitBag is Helium (huge weight difference with CO₂) followed by Nitrogen. The most common CTB gas nowadays is Nitrogen. Helium supply is dwindling since it cannot be manufactured. The PPeH says that Argon is viable for CTBing tho.

500L. Will that be enough?

That's 33 minutes at 15 LPM, more than enough.

Also I don't have a flow meter, going to just keep the flow minimal.. will that be alright?

No, you need a good flow rate for CO₂ purging, which was determined at 15 LPM on EXIT International's tests:



Note that these tests were made using Air (which has around the same weight as Nitrogen) for obvious reasons (the human test subject would die using real inert gas).

I have seen a notable number of people having problems with Argon and I'm starting to suspect that it requires a higher flow rate than the other 2 gases (Helium and Nitrogen) due to its superior weight.