Hi all,
I'm new to this forum and I would like to get some opinion on argon and cars/bath tubs.
Cars have the big advantage that you can move them + equipment around and thereby move away from places, where friends and family live. This makes it easier for them to continue living in that place, because it is not directly connected to an exit. Moreover, cars or bath tubs are more open space and therfore more suitable for people who want to avoid using masks. Of course, argon has to be used in these cases because it is heavier than air and will accumulate on the floor.
SUVs and many other cars (except limousines) have big trunks that are separated by a back seat row from the rest of the car. It should be easily possible to line the trunk sides and floor with pool liner or other foil. The trunk sides can be lined as high as the backseat row goes.
Next, a 10 litre bottle (200 bar) of argon (make sure that it's pure argon and not some mixture with CO2) is placed on the floor of the trunk. The filling normally equals 2,100 litres of argon when released. This should be more than enough, since the volume of average car trunks ranges between 400 and 800 (SUV) litres but since we only line until the height of the backseats, we need less. Trunk volume could be checked in the car manual but car manufacturer often cheat and report higher numbers by including all kinds of smaller spaces and convexities in the trunk.
Argon is around 40% heavier than air and when the valve is opened, it starts filling the trunk from the bottom. It will replace the air by pushing it upwards into the rest of the car.
The trunk compartment cover should now be replaced with foil but a 50cm/20inch space should be left open, for the normal air to get out and for the person to get in later.
Please correct me, if I'm wrong:
- Using a standard pressure regulator with 50 mbar results in 1.5 kg/h flow rate with a standard argon bottle (10 litres, 200 bar)
- The density of argon is 1,784 kg/m3
- So after 30 minutes, 0.75 kg of argon should equal around 0,42 m3 or 420 litres, enough to fill a 400 l trunk
Once the 30 minutes are over, a person could slowly enter the trunk through the open space in the foil from the backseat. The person will probably push out some argon and push in some air by his/her movement but he/she can wait 5 more minutes with head above the foil to add another 66 litres, and then slowly enter the trunk where the argon will have accumulated on the floor again.
The bottle is open all the time and will ensure that for the next 2 hours, another 1,600 litres of argon will be released, ensuring the exit.
The same principle can be used for a bath tub, where the plughole and other openings are sealed with duct tape and some transparent foil (including a small space for the air to exit and the person to enter) is spread/attached on top. Bath tubs only have around 200 litres and should therefore be filled within 15 minutes.
Do you guys think that this is a valid approach or would you improve something? I was looking for an instrument to measure argon content but couldn't find one. Are there instruments to measure direct oxygen content of the environment? This could be used to ensure that the oxygen has been replaced in the trunk.
Please feel free to comment, great community.
Hello,
I'm new to the forum and thanks again to the Admin/s to let me join!
English is not my first language and so I hope you can forgive mistakes. Before asking for registration to the forum, I read all of the entries about Carbon dioxide and Helium/Nitrogen/Argon as well as the PPH.
And just to confirm: Information here is only for educational purpose. I do not encourage, advise or aid suicidal behavior. It is up to you if you use the information else then for the educational purpose. Therefore, please be responsible and consult the laws of your own country. Please also consult the FAQ section of this forum should you have any questions.
However, at some point reading through this thread here, I realised that no one has replied to the above post #271584 as of yet, which I find somewhat interesting because this approach/method eliminates what would make - at least - me very hesitant about using a bag-method or a mask-method. A bag-method (as well as any of the mask-methods) does have strong supportive points and still, it also has strong points against it/them.
I understand that one of the strongest points of the bag-method is or is supposed to be the very quick effect i.e. turn unconscious within just a minute, which would be very welcome and yet, on the other hand I could imagine that this factor of knowing in advance that I would be rendered unconscious=incontrollable quickly plus the hyperventilation-thing before would create and contribute lots of stress to the allover psycological- and technical process perhaps leading to,
a) making one or more mistake/s during the final step/s, or
b) causing stronger behaviour/reactions during the early stage/s of subconsciousness due to the increased fears/stress before, or
c) interrupting the procedure altogether due to SI with the SI additionally fed by the before mentioned increased fears/stress).
I hope it is understandable what I mean.
However, post #271584 indicates a method that I was thinking through the last couple of days. It would perhaps be only for those who,
a) do not want to have that hyperventilation thing but "just" stand up/sit down/lay down and breath and fall asleep peacefully as a high mountain climber would,
b) can save a bit more money to buy/construct a little bit more equipment than "only" gas + regulators + tube + bag + tape + flexible.
I would though not use a car trunk unless it can be sealed in the same way a wood- or plastic box could (and would have to be). With a car trunk, I would consider that more difficult to reach.
Now, depending on what preferred position the ctb shall take place - laid down or sit down or stand up -, that would possibly determine the gas of choice:
***Nitrogen is almost as heavy as air and would disperse allover/throughout the given (still O2-filled) room/space and would hence not be the gas of choice in this method unless you can afford "tons" of N2.
***Helium is a lot lighter than air and would build up a layer/column at the top of a sealed room/space (with the area below that Helium layer not being supportive because filled with air/O2). This fact of the Helium layer at the top of the room/space would support a stand up position e.g. enclosed in a room/space like e.g. a wardrobe or other box (of wood or plastic) could be.
Of course this wardrobe or box would have to be narrow/tight enough to hinder a subconscious body from slipping down and out of the Helium layer zone once the muscles do not support a stand up position anymore). Leaving that Helium layer at the top of that room/space by slipping out of it would mean slipping down into the air/O2 zone within the box. Unless the tightness/narrowness of that room/space absolutely prevents such slip down, this way is not recommendable.
A better position in this method could be to place the sealed box in a diagonal position e.g. leaning it safe against a wall. Such position of the box would likely prevent a slip down of an unconscious body and thus keep its head safe within the Helium layer at the top of the box as long as the gas lasts.
Such a (similar or comparable) position is used by Australian Dr Dead and his apparatus called "VICE" that can be seen here: w w w.vice.com/en_us/article/434yaj/a-doctor-built-a-machine-that-helps-people-die
***Argon is a lot heavier than air and would build up a layer/column at the bottom of a sealed room/space while leaving the room/space above that Argon layer non-supportive. This gas-behavior would support a laid down or sitting position e.g. enclosed in a wide/long enough room/space like e.g. a wardrobe or other box (of wood or plastic) could be.
I would not consider a bathtub a good room/space since it may happen that the seal on top (e.g. the foil) could easily be broken by any unconscious/involuntary upward movement of the body/head. But a sealed box (of wood or plastic) long/wide/high enough could well do if I don't err.
Now, with such method the amount of gas required would of course be bigger than with the bag-method or any mask-method. Depending on the position and room/space, it would be necessary to calculate the m3 to be covered/layered either in the upper zone of the chosen room/space (upstanding position) or in its lower zone (laying or sitting down position). Perhaps a 10 liters regulated tank would suffice, rather 20 Iiters are assumable.
And the procedure would be comparably easier and less stressful I guess. Standing/sitting/laying inside the room/space just going on breathing completely normal not scared/stressed by any hyperventilation-thing and not restricted by any bag or mask and doubts/fears that it could get displaced during unconsciousness or the like; open the bottle in a steady stream, just wait for the layer building up, continue breathing normal all the while and with the gradual buildup of the layer in the head-zone fall asleep.
You see any mistake with that purely hypothetical assumption/s?
And just to reconfirm: Information here is only for educational purpose. I do not encourage, advise or aid suicidal behavior. It is up to you if you use the information else then for the educational purpose. Therefore, please be responsible and consult the laws of your own country. Please also consult the FAQ section of this forum should you have any questions.
Thank you for all your input. This is a great community!
