Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[TiredHorse]

In theory the experts say you're supposed to pass out within seconds/a few deep breaths. Maybe under perfect conditions? But in reality, there are failed attempts where people wait for several minutes without ever going unconscious.

"In theory" and "under perfect conditions" is exactly the crux of the matter.

I can say that how calm you are, and thus how able you are to breathe steadily and deeply, makes a huge difference. That's how I flubbed my attempts: because I was amped up, stressed out of my mind, I couldn't breathe deeply, and it took too long for me to start blacking out, so SI kicked in and I failed.

There also seem to be a high percentage of failures due to people not understanding the method and thus setting up the apparatus improperly: user error. In all fairness, it is a somewhat complex system to understand, so there are many opportunities to deviate --tighter neckband, lying down, etc.-- from what works in a misguided attempt to make it a more certain method.

Regarding the issue of eyeglasses, I recall reading in Five Last Acts or perhaps somewhere else that one could wear a baseball cap or some type hat with a soft, short brim. The original purpose was to keep the plastic exit bag off of one's face because several people reported that they found it annoying when doing "practice runs" and such a hat would also allow room for eyeglasses.

I considered a ballcap, but I decided against it in the end. 1) It really got in the way of getting the bag down into place, especially when I was stressed and trying to keep my focus on making the method work. I didn't want the extra factor of a ballcap getting knocked askew and flopping around inside the bag. 2) Practice runs don't typically involve a flow of gas, so the bag is VERY annoying as it lies against your face and gets fogged up. However, I discovered that when the gas is flowing the bag is inflated well away from your face and it's far more comfortable. The flow of gas also keeps it from fogging up.

Also, when just starting your run by inflating the bag, the hem of the bag would be around your forehead, presumeably below the brim of the cap but above your glasses. The glasses would still be in your way when you pull the bag down.

But if you want to go with a ballcap and try to wear your glasses, don't let me dissuade you. I doubt it's a make-or break element of the process. I'm just posting my own experience.

 

[Roger]

Yes I get the overpressure thing, it's part of how we used to protect military vehicle crews against chemical attacks.

 

[Jinx]

"In theory" and "under perfect conditions" is exactly the crux of the matter.

I can say that how calm you are, and thus how able you are to breathe steadily and deeply, makes a huge difference. That's how I flubbed my attempts: because I was amped up, stressed out of my mind, I couldn't breathe deeply, and it took too long for me to start blacking out, so SI kicked in and I failed.

2) Practice runs don't typically involve a flow of gas, so the bag is VERY annoying as it lies against your face and gets fogged up. However, I discovered that when the gas is flowing the bag is inflated well away from your face and it's far more comfortable. The flow of gas also keeps it from fogging up.

Yes, I think realistically if we're factoring in potential anxiety/stress we should probably expect a longer delay until unconsciousness. But what would be a reasonable amount of time to wait?

Would it be wise to set a timer for maybe 3(?) minutes and aborting if you're not unconscious by then to conserve gas? This would give the chance to redo the setup and check for leaks or any other issues. I'm not sure if there would be any permanent harm from temporary oxygen deprivation for that short amount of time?

I'm just worrying a lot about running out of gas halfway through and not succeeding. This isn't exactly a cheap method. I feel like I've got one chance to get it right because I probably won't be able to afford another attempt. I was planning to get a 20cf cylinder so I don't have as much room for error.

I was thinking that as well, the flow of gas should keep the bag inflated enough to prevent it from blocking your nose or mouth, provided there's no leaks.

 

[TiredHorse]

Yes I get the overpressure thing, it's part of how we used to protect military vehicle crews against chemical attacks.

Exactly. As a firefighter/EMT we had it with our SCBAs. PPV: positive pressure ventilation.

But what would be a reasonable amount of time to wait?

No idea, but if you're worried about the amount of gas on hand, as I was, I'd upgrade to a 40cf, as I did. You're mostly paying for the tank, not the gas, and it isn't that much more for the larger tank. The added margin for error is well worth it, in my opinion.

I was thinking that as well, the flow of gas should keep the bag inflated enough to prevent it from blocking your nose or mouth, provided there's no leaks.

That is correct. If you're using a turkey bag, as I did, it inflates into quite a large balloon around your head. It didn't touch my face at all.

 

[-L-]

Exactly. As a firefighter/EMT we had it with our SCBAs. PPV: positive pressure ventilation.

Ok, I know the idea of using masks has been extensively deemed a bad idea. BUT, you have now got me thinking about a modified SCBA mask.

Spoiler: Like this one

Would something like this work, if the flow rate was kept high enough?
I mean if firefighters use these to keep out toxic smoke and fumes surly it would keep out oxygen?
And with a way to exhale through the cartridge, but only inhale from the air line, it should work for our purposes right?

I guess I'm just speculating at this point, but I would prefer this to a bag personally, and I don't mind modifying the fittings.

 

[TiredHorse]

If you have the machining skills and equipment, and the technological know-how to successfully modify an SCBA for inert gas suicide, go for it.

I do not. I have not encountered anyone on this forum who does. I --and I suspect the rest of this community-- know of exactly one successful CTB on record when using any modified mask, and that was by someone with a vast amount of experience. After many years of working with SCBAs, I'm still not entirely sure how the damned things work so well, and for me the idea of modifying one with any chance of it working properly afterward is akin to the idea of turning a Swiss watch into a cuckoo clock.

But if you think you have the knowledge, expertise, and tooling for how exactly, mechanically, an incredibly technical SCBA system --including pressure-sensing valves and precisely regulated air flow-- could be modified to CTB, don't let me stop you.

Sorry to be so negative, but the topic has come up again and again and again, in my seven months here. It's very frustrating. If you have the time and skills and money to take on a shop project, whatever, go for it, entertain yourself, but don't explore it as a practical solution to a problem that has already been solved more effectively for a tenth the price and effort. As far as I'm concerned, successful CTB with a modified mask is effectively a unicorn and I refuse to either encourage the effort or sympathize with any soundly-predicted failures.

 

[-L-]

If you have the machining skills and equipment, and the technological know-how to successfully modify an SCBA for inert gas suicide, go for it.

I do not. I have not encountered anyone on this forum who does. I --and I suspect the rest of this community-- know of exactly one successful CTB on record when using any modified mask, and that was by someone with a vast amount of experience. After many years of working with SCBAs, I'm still not entirely sure how the damned things work so well, and for me the idea of modifying one with any chance of it working properly afterward is akin to the idea of turning a Swiss watch into a cuckoo clock.

But if you think you have the knowledge, expertise, and tooling for how exactly, mechanically, an incredibly technical SCBA system --including pressure-sensing valves and precisely regulated air flow-- could be modified to CTB, don't let me stop you.

Sorry to be so negative, but the topic has come up again and again and again, in my seven months here. It's very frustrating. If you have the time and skills and money to take on a shop project, whatever, go for it, entertain yourself, but don't explore it as a practical solution to a problem that has already been solved more effectively for a tenth the price and effort. As far as I'm concerned, successful CTB with a modified mask is effectively a unicorn and I refuse to either encourage the effort or sympathize with any soundly-predicted failures.

Yeah I know what your saying, and I'm sorry for bringing it up as I've seen it brought up more times then I then I can count as well.
So sorry again..
I feel like I could get the regulated air flow, and the hose connections sorted out as I have access to a shop, and the skills.
However I have no idea about the valves on the mask.

All this is though is my own speculation.. I may end up buying a mask and toying with it, just out of curiosity.. And if all else fails I'll just use a bag.
I guess the other thing I should keep in mind is "KISS" (Keep it simple stupid). So maybe I'll just stick with whats already proven to work.. But I do enjoy a challenge.

 

[DeepMind]

Just my 2 cents, I will never ever use an exit bag because of the associated risks. To be honest, I never understood why people use exit bags at all. Argon is a much better and less risky method.

1. I will buy argon.
2. I will book a hotel room or I will do it at home.
3. I will use tape to seal any openings/drains of the bathtub.
4. I will cover 3/4 of the bathtub top with plastic foil and leave a respective opening.
5. I will insert a container of argon gas into the tub and I will open the gas valve.
6. Argon is heavier than air and within 30 minutes (depending on flow rate) it will replace all the air/oxygen (gets pushed out through the foil opening) in the bathtub.
7. I will use a lighter to check the argon fill level. As soon as the lighter goes out, I know how high the current argon level is.
8. When the argon level is near the top of the bathtub, I will enter slowly though the foil opening.
9. I will leave the gas bottle open to make sure that argon keeps replacing any air/oxygen.
10. I will slowly lie down in the tub and take normal deep breaths.
11. See you on the other side.

This method is a million times safer than an exit bag and it doesnt require putting anything over your head. You simply lie down and that's it.

 

[Jen Erik]

Just my 2 cents, I will never ever use an exit bag because of the associated risks.

Could you articulate what those risks are for you? I have terrible confirmation bias around this method so I feel concerned I might be missing something critical that others see.

 

[DeepMind]

Could you articulate what those risks are for you? I have terrible confirmation bias around this method so I feel concerned I might be missing something critical that others see.

Well, risks I associate with exit bags are:

• The whole setup is more complicated than the argon setup I propose above. Higher complexity equals more room for error.
• If you fall down after using the exit bag, the gas supply can get loose and you can end up with severe brain damage when the gas wasn't enough to kill you. The gas supply with the argon method is much, much safer. You can't fall down, you are already lying.
• I don't like the feeling of putting a bag over my head.
• A bag is light and can easily become loose or damaged

In the end, I think the exit bag is a nice method if you stick to the instructions but in the end, the argon method is much easier and safer.

 

[TiredHorse]

Just my 2 cents, I will never ever use an exit bag because of the associated risks. To be honest, I never understood why people use exit bags at all. Argon is a much better and less risky method.

Not to be terribly negative --though that does seem to be my mindset today-- but I see several avenues of failure for your Ar/bathtub method, not least the displacement/turbidity intrinsic to entering the tub that may leave you in an O2-poor environment, rather than the anoxic atmosphere of a bag, that results in brain damage rather than death.

Don't let me stop you, but be aware that from a point of view outside your own planning, your method is far from --ahem!-- airtight.

That said, instead of using a lighter, considering using candles (tea lights) at different heights within the bathtub to assess the level of air displacement by the Ar. You should be able to watch them extinguished, lowest to highest, as the Ar displaces the air.

 

[Jen Erik]

Well, risks I associate with exit bags

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[Pj.nuffield]

Yeah I know what your saying, and I'm sorry for bringing it up as I've seen it brought up more times then I then I can count as well.
So sorry again..
I feel like I could get the regulated air flow, and the hose connections sorted out as I have access to a shop, and the skills.
However I have no idea about the valves on the mask.

All this is though is my own speculation.. I may end up buying a mask and toying with it, just out of curiosity.. And if all else fails I'll just use a bag.
I guess the other thing I should keep in mind is "KISS" (Keep it simple stupid). So maybe I'll just stick with whats already proven to work.. But I do enjoy a challenge.

Have you looked at 1 of those 3m respirators? They have one-way valves.

 

[cappuccinogirl]

The concentration or purity of the helium should be listed somewhere on the tank itself. Are you buying one of those party balloon kits or a tank of helium from an industrial supplier? If it's the latter you're much more likely to get helium that's 97-99% pure.

Then again if you buy a tank of nitrogen from an industrial supplier then you can be just about totally certain it's 97-99% pure.

Thanks. Unfortunately still can't find anything on bottle. Given price of nitrogen value kit on mad dog site gonna have to stick with helium . Helium king on amazon says 98% pure so guess I should change it to be sure. Aghh

 

[pane]

Thanks. Unfortunately still can't find anything on bottle. Given price of nitrogen value kit on mad dog site gonna have to stick with helium . Helium king on amazon says 98% pure so guess I should change it to be sure. Aghh

The nitrogen kit that Mad Dog Brewing sells is simply a rebranded part from another manufacturer that you can buy yourself which Mad Dob puts their logo on and sells at a huge mark-up.

Read this entire thread very carefully, especially post #10:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/addendum-on-nitrogen.3099/

Incidentally, I'm not trying to steer you towards nitrogen for this or that reason. If you've found a source for helium that's 98% pure then stick with that if you prefer. I'm only pointing out that the MDB nitrogen regulator can be bought from the original manufacturer much more cheaply.

 

[DeepMind]

Not to be terribly negative --though that does seem to be my mindset today-- but I see several avenues of failure for your Ar/bathtub method, not least the displacement/turbidity intrinsic to entering the tub that may leave you in an O2-poor environment, rather than the anoxic atmosphere of a bag, that results in brain damage rather than death.

Don't let me stop you, but be aware that from a point of view outside your own planning, your method is far from --ahem!-- airtight.

That said, instead of using a lighter, considering using candles (tea lights) at different heights within the bathtub to assess the level of air displacement by the Ar. You should be able to watch them extinguished, lowest to highest, as the Ar displaces the air.

Thank you for the comment. Could you elaborate a little bit on why only an O2-poor environment is created with the proposed method?

To make the method even safer I would propose to buy an oxygen meter and not use candles or a lighter. They cost around 50 to 100 USD and show the oxygen content of air, ranging from 0 to 25% VOL. This will allow to make exact measurements. Oxygen content below 8% VOL is deadly.

 

[Jinx]

Feeling a bit overwhelmed and frustrated. I don't know if I should give up on this method or not. But I've spent nearly all my time the past few weeks trying to research and plan everything, I really want this to work out somehow. Gathering all the necessary materials might be too difficult for someone like me though. I'm housebound so I'm limited to only ordering stuff online.

I'm most concerned about choosing a regulator and finding the right size tubing that will securely attach.

I've been looking at these two:
https://www.harborfreight.com/weldi.../gauges-regulators/regulator-gauge-94841.html
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/hobart-flow-gauge-mig-regulator

TiredHorse, you own the first one don't you? They're meant for Argon/CO2 but I guess they're compatible with Nitrogen as well? I tried searching but couldn't find any further detailed specs on either so can only assume they follow the CGA 580 standard for the valve fitting so there shouldn't be any issue attaching it to the cylinder?

What about the hose barb though..? Are these standard? Because it seems like they can come in any size. The PPeH suggests 5ft of PVC tubing 1/4 in. (do they mean the inner diameter of the tube?) Although they might only be using the Max Dog regulator as reference -- again, I'm not sure if the barbs vary in size..

No idea, but if you're worried about the amount of gas on hand, as I was, I'd upgrade to a 40cf, as I did. You're mostly paying for the tank, not the gas, and it isn't that much more for the larger tank.

I think the main reason I settled on 20cf is because I read a full 40cf tank would weigh about 30lbs and I um.. don't think I could lift that by myself, heh. And I live with family so coming up with an excuse and trying to hide these packages will be troublesome enough already.

 

[TiredHorse]

Yes, I own the Harbor Freight regulator. It's compatible with N2 --fits into the valve just fine-- but as has been shown in another thread on this site (can't remember where), the conversion factor between Ar and N2 is different for each manufacturer's gauge, so in practice any "conversion" becomes a SWAG: Scientific Wild-Assed Guess. I think it would have been fine had I not flubbed it due to SI. If/when I try again, I intend to kick the flow up to around an indicated 18 LPM and cross my fingers.

The hose barbs can come in different sizes, and you'll need to wait and see what the one is on the regulator you order, but the one on the Harbor Freight model is 1/4" (I just measured) and I just used 1/4" ID vinyl tubing from Home Depot or the hardware store (can't remember which).

I don't have a scale handy, so I can't weigh my 40cf, but I'd guess it's around 20-25#. I could see it possibly being 30#, but it's small enough that it isn't at all unweildy. It's pretty easy to move around, carrying it by the valve.

You have my sympathy, @Jinx. It is a strangely complex method, for as simple as it seems like it ought to be, and collecting and assembling the different elements can ideed be overwhelming.

Thank you for the comment. Could you elaborate a little bit on why only an O2-poor environment is created with the proposed method?

I suspect that your climbing into the tub will both displace Ar and mix your gasses, air and Ar, resulting in an atmosphere with enough air to survive. But that's just a guess. It sounds like you have a plan in place. Perhaps your method should have a thread of its own? It seems different enough from the exit bag approach that it should have its own space. It could get lost in this thread.

 

[color_me_gone]

mix your gasses, air and Ar

I agree here.
The differences in density between air and argon produces / maintains the separation between the the two: argon (lower) and air (upper).
The difference in density between the two gases is not that great, which means it will take a long time for the argon to become pure again, after it has been disturbed (mixed with air).

 

[DeepMind]

Thank you for the replies. So to refine this method even more, it probably is better to get in the tub first, head above sides of the bathtub and then open the valve and then wait 30 minutes and then to slide down slowly.

I once started a thread for the argon method but it got dragged away.

Still, good discussion. One shouldn't take any chances. I guess the oxygen meter improves safety of this method and I certainly will buy one before.

 

[-L-]

Thank you for the replies. So to refine this method even more, it probably is better to get in the tub first, head above sides of the bathtub and then open the valve and then wait 30 minutes and then to slide down slowly.

I once started a thread for the argon method but it got dragged away.

Still, good discussion. One shouldn't take any chances. I guess the oxygen meter improves safety of this method and I certainly will buy one before.

Argon is a bad idea for the purpose you are suggesting.
Its heaver then air but its still too light in my opinion to do what your thinking of reliably.
Take a look at this thread from april, your posts reminded me of it:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...sized-or-researched-about-gas-drowning.14887/

Or liquid nitrogen if you come up with a pouring mechanism of some sort.

Again I doubt argon is going to work, you may at most end up with brain damage.

 

[planmd]

Eek can anybody help? I just had my nitrogen delivered today but am not strong enough to open the cylinder valve, and can't ask anyone to do it for me. It's a wheel valve like this one https://www.adamsgas.co.uk/product/...ew-cylinder-for-wine-preservation-dispensing/

I called the supplier for advice but he just said to use brute strength, which due to my health problems I don't have. Can anyone think of a tool or anything that would help open it? All the cylinders from other suppliers use the same valve.

Aargh!

How did you manage to open it finally? I am unable, I am using all my strength.... Thanks so much!

 

[Honigwaffel]

How did you manage to open it finally? I am unable, I am using all my strength.... Thanks so much!

Did you try to use one of those jar openers with rubber on the inside? I mean something like this: LINK

In my case I attached a regulator to the bottle which has a seperate valve that is so much easier to open and close. So I leave the valve on the bottle open and the valve on the regulator shut. Just make sure you don't have any leaks.

 

[planmd]

Did you try to use one of those jar openers with rubber on the inside? I mean something like this: LINK

In my case I attached a regulator to the bottle which has a separate valve that is so much easier to open and close. So I leave the valve on the bottle open and the valve on the regulator shut. Just make sure you don't have any leaks.

No, I haven't. I have tried with my hands, also wearing latex gloves, but I am totally unable. I was planning to finally do it tonight or tomorrow. Now I do not know how I can manage if I cannot even open the cylinder! I thought it was going to be easier after all the setting up I have already gone through.... I do have the regulator with its valve as well, so I suppose once I manage to open the cylinder everything will be ok.

 

[DeepMind]

Argon is a bad idea for the purpose you are suggesting.
Its heaver then air but its still too light in my opinion to do what your thinking of reliably.
Take a look at this thread from april, your posts reminded me of it:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...sized-or-researched-about-gas-drowning.14887/

Or liquid nitrogen if you come up with a pouring mechanism of some sort.

Again I doubt argon is going to work, you may at most end up with brain damage.

Sorry, but you didn't provide any evidence that this method doesn't work. Moreover, I told you about the oxygen meter, which you didn't include in your reply as well. There are tons of news reports where people accidentally died by argon atmospheres:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15240039

https://vacaero.com/information-resources/vacuum-brazing-with-dan-kay/1172-argon-can-be-lethal.html
REMEMBER: Argon is heavier than air. Thus, it doesn't really blend and or mix well with the air, but instead, tends to push it aside and replace it. As the pit fills with argon, the air is pushed out. Thus, no oxygen remains to support life!

http://maritimeaccident.org/2014/08/safespace-argoninert-gas-fatality/

Here are 41 more cases where people died from argon:
https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/AccidentSearch.search?acc_keyword="Argon"&keyword_list=on

 

[-L-]

Sorry, but you didn't provide any evidence that this method doesn't work. Moreover, I told you about the oxygen meter, which you didn't include in your reply as well. There are tons of news reports where people accidentally died by argon atmospheres:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15240039

https://vacaero.com/information-resources/vacuum-brazing-with-dan-kay/1172-argon-can-be-lethal.html
REMEMBER: Argon is heavier than air. Thus, it doesn't really blend and or mix well with the air, but instead, tends to push it aside and replace it. As the pit fills with argon, the air is pushed out. Thus, no oxygen remains to support life!

http://maritimeaccident.org/2014/08/safespace-argoninert-gas-fatality/

Here are 41 more cases where people died from argon:
https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/AccidentSearch.search?acc_keyword="Argon"&keyword_list=on

I'm somewhat intentionally vague sorry. I don't really want to assist anyone, I just am telling you its a terrible idea.
I don't need to sight sources because I don't really care enough, I'm just some random asshole on the internet, so it doesn't really matter what I say, if your determined enough to try this that's your own problem / responsibility for seeking out reliable information.
You seem determined enough to try with argon though so who am I to stop you.

I will say though that I've had experience working with rooms that are filled with inert gas for electrical reasons to prevent electrical arcing and fires. If you had an entire room purged of oxygen and filled with a large volume of inert gas (like argon) maybe you'd be on to something..

However no matter what, I can't vouch for the idea of a bathtub.. Maybe if you got enough gas you could use a tent or even a sealed bathroom, if you had an adiquite way to let air escape, but I have a lot of doubts about a bathtub.
And no matter what you do I would still say that LN would be better.

I can't view some of your sources on here as NCBI blocks tor traffic.
But I would have to assume that a lot of what you've sighted focuses on industrial accidents hypoxic rooms, as I mentioned above.
I also can't really get any sources or facts on using a bathtub for this purpose, even if I cared enough or wanted to. Because so far it seems like there are no reported instances of this specific senerio ever happening. So you would be the first to try it.

Again I told you that liquid nitrogen would probably be your best bet for this very case. Its also easy to obtain, but thats all I'm going to say.

And as I already said you seem determined to try this, so who am I to tell you otherwise.
The burden of research for this falls on you.

Just don't come crying back here when you end up a brain dead potato.

For me, I'm going to stick with whats proven to reliably work.

 

[TiredHorse]

So I leave the valve on the bottle open and the valve on the regulator shut. Just make sure you don't have any leaks.

Be careful with this. This approach is a common culprit in inexplicably empty tanks. You can lose a lot of gas through a pinhole leak that doesn't even show up on a soapy-water test.

If I may be so bold, I would recommend that once you have the valve so that you can open it, close the valve on the tank only so hard as you can tighten it with your hand. Not only should that be sufficient to prevent gas leaks (you don't need to crank it hellishly tight), but if you're the one who tightened it, you should have the exact same strength to open it again.

And as I already said you seem determined to try this, so who am I to tell you otherwise.

In the end, we each must choose the method we deem best for ourselves, regardless of anyone else's opinion. You are wise to let it drop: these discussions can turn into flame wars all too easily, and there is currently enough discord and tension on the forum with the fallout from the FB debaucle.

Thank you all for keeping the thread respectful and on-topic. I really, really appreciate your efforts.

 

[jumpforrestjump]

Hello! I have extensively read online regarding the method discussed in this thread but i'm still not sure about 2 things:

1. we need at least 600L of actual gas, hence the volume of the tank should be much less right? Judging from here https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/is-gas-uk-20l-cylinder-ok.10679/#post-198035 a 10L tank on with 150bar is sufficient(?). It says it has enough gas (helium) for 98 balloons no12".
2. since english is not my first language and that applies also to the supplies vendors i have to 'work' with, can someone help with the gas flow? i know 15Lpm is the ideal, BUT the all pressure regulator devices i have seen have just BAR as unit of measurement. this for example https://www.alphastar.gr/fiales-aerion/azotoy/product-868/. what is the equivalent to 15Lpm? Lpm and Bar measure different things so...wtf. Help?

Thanks!

 

[TiredHorse]

I'm afraid I can't help you with your first question, @jumpforrestjump. I am always confused by the various combinations of tank sizes and pressures, so I hope someone with more knowledge will come to your assistance.

As for your second question, I think that is an air compressor regulator, showing both accumulator pressure and line pressure (thus there is no need for a flowmeter). If so, it isn't intended for use with compressed gas cylinders. But you're right: if it had the flowmeter you need, it would have a gauge showing Lpm, rather than two gauges both showing Bar.

 

[Pj.nuffield]

Hello! I have extensively read online regarding the method discussed in this thread but i'm still not sure about 2 things:

1. we need at least 600L of actual gas, hence the volume of the tank should be much less right? Judging from here https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/is-gas-uk-20l-cylinder-ok.10679/#post-198035 a 10L tank on with 150bar is sufficient(?). It says it has enough gas (helium) for 98 balloons no12".
2. since english is not my first language and that applies also to the supplies vendors i have to 'work' with, can someone help with the gas flow? i know 15Lpm is the ideal, BUT the all pressure regulator devices i have seen have just BAR as unit of measurement. this for example https://www.alphastar.gr/fiales-aerion/azotoy/product-868/. what is the equivalent to 15Lpm? Lpm and Bar measure different things so...wtf. Help?

Thanks!

The supplier I use here in New Zealand work on cubic meters & the gas is measured at 15°c/ 101kpa. Hope that helps in some way. The same supplier sales a flowmeter for measuring airflow on mig welder torches so that may be an option.