Does anyone else think it's unfair for suicides to be sent to hell?

[Applebees]

Well then I hope he didn't not describe hell.
Plus, even if there is a concept of afterlife, it sounds extremely hypocritical that "all forgiving God" would punish someone for killing themselves when God himself was the one to give him shitty life.

There are some weird cases where people describe being in hell, but there's also people who were atheists prior to their NDE who described being in heaven, so it really doesn't make much sense. I think that those kinds of claims are made up, but the ones that can be confirmed from the outside are the ones where the patient actually described stuff that they couldn't have otherwise known. In one case, the patient was clinically dead, but when they came back they said they saw a red sticker on the top of the ceiling fan and surely enough there was one after they looked. There are several cases of it, and the patients on average have over 90% accuracy. You might say that these cases are plotted or made up since they don't happen more often, but otherwise you'd have to admit that it can't be explained naturalistically. I'm just agnostic on the whole thing, but I'm leaning towards the idea that there is an afterlife that may not be our common conception of heaven and hell.

You believe it's possible to bring a completely dead brain back to life?

Yep! It happens. The patient can have their brain completely drained of blood, have no pulse, etc. and still be brought back.

 

[Salkak]

There are some weird cases where people describe being in hell, but there's also people who were atheists prior to their NDE who described being in heaven during their NDE, so it really doesn't make much sense. I think that those kinds of claims are made up, but the ones that can be confirmed from the outside are the ones where the patient actually described stuff that they couldn't have otherwise known. In one case, the patient was clinically dead, but when they came back they said they saw a red sticker on the top of the ceiling fan and surely enough there was one after they looked. There are several cases of it, and the patients on average have over 90% accuracy. You might say that these cases are plotted or made up since they don't happen more often, but otherwise you'd have to admit that it can't be explained naturalistically.

Yep! It happens. The patient can have their brain completely drained of blood, have no pulse, etc. and still be brought back.

I mean these are the things even scientists can't explain. So who knows what that is? Maybe there is heaven or hell? Who am I to say it's plotted? I don't have all the answers in the world. I just hope there is some peace after death especially for people that didn't get to experience any peace while they were alive.

 

[Ta555]

There are some weird cases where people describe being in hell, but there's also people who were atheists prior to their NDE who described being in heaven, so it really doesn't make much sense. I think that those kinds of claims are made up, but the ones that can be confirmed from the outside are the ones where the patient actually described stuff that they couldn't have otherwise known. In one case, the patient was clinically dead, but when they came back they said they saw a red sticker on the top of the ceiling fan and surely enough there was one after they looked. There are several cases of it, and the patients on average have over 90% accuracy. You might say that these cases are plotted or made up since they don't happen more often, but otherwise you'd have to admit that it can't be explained naturalistically. I'm just agnostic on the whole thing, but I'm leaning towards the idea that there is an afterlife that may not be our common conception of heaven and hell.

Yep! It happens. The patient can have their brain completely drained of blood, have no pulse, etc. and still be brought back.

And there's also a bunch of these sticker experiments where nothing happens and the person who was clinically dead can't tell them anything about what was in the room. In fact this happens more often.

 

[Applebees]

And there's also a bunch of these sticker experiments where nothing happens and the person who was clinically dead can't tell them anything about what was in the room. In fact this happens more often.

I suppose the reply from the dualist would be that they simply cannot remember the experience due to other variables in the connection between the mind and brain.

 

[motel rooms]

Yep! It happens. The patient can have their brain completely drained of blood, have no pulse, etc. and still be brought back.

You clearly don't understand what brain death is, when it occurs & that it's always irreversible. Why am I not surprised that they don't teach theologians basic biology?

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

As far as the bible goes, from my understanding, it does not say that suicide is an automatic ticket to hell. The CHURCH said that. Theres a difference. People were killing themselves left and right because they wanted to escape their awful lives and reach God quicker, the church didn't like that, so they made a rule that people who commit suicide go to hell.

With that said you can argue that suicide constitutes murder and THATS a huge sin but, the bible is full of contradictions. Nobody really knows. I'm just going to ask for forgiveness repeatedly when I kill myself and hope that I receive mercy, if it is a sin.

 

[BittersweetSymphony]

To quote Melisandre, "There is only one hell. The one we live in now."

 

[DEATHYON]

You believe it's possible to bring a completely dead brain back to life?

What Does It Mean to Die?

When Jahi McMath was declared brain-dead by the hospital, her family disagreed. Her case challenges the very nature of existence.

www.newyorker.com

 

[UseItOrLoseIt]

Nah. Even Jesus kinda committed suicide. He predicted his death like 3 times and didn't do shit about it.

"Now as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside and said to them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified.", and he still went to Jerusalem.

It seems to me the only logical course of action is suicide by cop

 

[motel rooms]

@DEATHYON
Revolutionary. I'm on my knees begging Jesus to forgive me for not believing in miracles. That poor extremely disabled girl/vegetable is so fucking full of life. If her brain didn't really die, it clearly wasn't brought back to life.

 

[GentleJerk]

This subject is a common one that always brings up a lot of fear, arguments and uncertainties!

I too have had my thoughts influenced and cannot help but think about these things, it can be very stressful.

I'm not saying I believe in Hell. But yes, the idea seems extremely unfair to me.

Most people who commit suicide are in horrible circumstances that they are completely unable to live with and cannot change.

To punish someone for all eternity because they are suffering so much from something outside of their control, and can no longer withstand living, sounds like a cruel game that has been rigged to lose.

I highly doubt that those who said such things and adhere to such beliefs, have ever been suicidal themselves. Lucky for them.

Lastly, what would you think/believe if you were never told what to think/believe? Values and beliefs seem to be mainly shaped by the environment a person is raised in.

You can ask an Amazonian tribal head-hunter "does it bother you that you have seven shrunken heads hanging in your hut?" and he might reply "Yes.... my brother has thirteen!" and that's his belief system, no one has told him otherwise or that it's wrong.

 

[motel rooms]

Nah. Even Jesus kinda committed suicide.

Back from the dead & blaspheming already!
Jesus did end up in Hell for a brief spell, don't you know your apocryphal Catholic legends like a good Croatian boy should?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell

 

[Applebees]

As far as the bible goes, from my understanding, it does not say that suicide is an automatic ticket to hell. The CHURCH said that. Theres a difference. People were killing themselves left and right because they wanted to escape their awful lives and reach God quicker, the church didn't like that, so they made a rule that people who commit suicide go to hell.

With that said you can argue that suicide constitutes murder and THATS a huge sin but, the bible is full of contradictions. Nobody really knows. I'm just going to ask for forgiveness repeatedly when I kill myself and hope that I receive mercy, if it is a sin.

Suicide almost certainly does not count as murder. However, some interpret the Bible in such a way that they might say people who commit suicide have already lost their salvation and therefore do not go to heaven.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Suicide almost certainly does not count as murder. However, some interpret the Bible in such a way that they might say people who commit suicide have already lost their salvation and therefore do not go to heaven.

I thought it would count as murder because you're taking a life before its natural time to die, and your family, friends etc still lose you, they're still out your company as if someone else took your life.

 

[Ta555]

I thought it would count as murder because you're taking a life before its natural time to die, and your family, friends etc still lose you, they're still out your company as if someone else took your life.

Suicide is not prohibited in the Bible. In fact there are some suicides in the old testament and they're not mentioned in a negative light. The suicide=bad rule was made a few centuries after the start of the religion by the church because too many Christians were killing themselves to get to heaven. And how will you grow a religion and get people's money if they all keep dying on you?

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Suicide is not prohibited in the Bible. In fact there are some suicides in the old testament and they're not mentioned in a negative light. The suicide=bad rule was made a few centuries after the start of the religion by the church because too many Christians were killing themselves to get to heaven. And how will you grow a religion and get people's money if they all keep dying on you?

Well, I'm glad someone else also heard of this. I hope we're right.

 

[motel rooms]

Lastly, what would you think/believe if you were never told what to think/believe? Values and beliefs seem to be mainly shaped by the environment a person is raised in.

Exactly. Use your brains, people, are ya four years old? If you'd been raised in Athens or Rome a couple of centuries before the Christians took over, you wouldn't have been afraid of ending up in a fucking lake of fire for ending your suffering. The Bible, the Bible! Let's reinterpret it for the billionth time, let's sanitize that antiquated shit until it suits our sensibilities perfectly. JFC, is that the only collection of stories ever written? Join a goddamn library. There are short stories a page long & poems that contain more wisdom, beauty & insight into the human condition than the entire fucking Bible.

 

[_Minsk]

I have so much hate for all these religions/cults

 

[Snake of Eden]

Why can't you accept the fact that nobody can answer such questions?

Still working on it dad

 

[FuneralCry]

I do not believe there is such a thing as a hell after this life. There is no evidence. All life is completely meaningless, we only exist because people decided to selfishly procreate. Life is a pointless experience that we go through for the sake of it, and when we die I believe there will be nothing. We are all brought into this world just to suffer and I see death as being the end to all pain.

 

[Un-]

There's many different variations of religion, so the answer really varies based on what you believe in. As someone introduced Christianity since I was born, I have a bit of knowledge of the Bible, God etc.

In the simplest of terms: No, you don't go to Hell for committing suicide.

Spoiler: Explanation:

To further explain this, the Second Testament in the Bible, to my understanding, is based on how unattainable the standard for being a disciple of God was: never murder, don't do adultery, never lie, never steal, don't taint your body, and so on. It is physically and mentally impossible for a person to be completely holy ( other religions, such as Judeo-Christianity still follow the laws set in the first commandment. Again, there are different variations of Christianity, and the belief of God. ) As a result, God sent Jesus down to Earth to preach, and eventually die on the cross for our sins.

Jesus dying on the cross for our sins is meant to be arbitrary in a sense: he died so that the nearly impossible requirement of being perfect in order to be considered worthy of redemption, and enter the gates of heaven was abolished. In a sense, Jesus knew it wasn't feasible for people to be perfect as Him. In layman's terms, He gave us a pass - we could do wrong, but as long as we confessed with our tongue that God is our Father and Jesus died on the cross, we were guaranteed to be invited into Heaven (N.B this doesn't mean outwardly, purposefully, or intentionally committing wrongs, and just praying for forgiveness is okay. The logic behind it is we ask for forgiveness for our shortcomings, and that we strive to be perfect like Jesus. Anybody striving to be like jesus would not intentionally commit sins.)

Another thing to take note of, is God considers sins to be equal. Murder is equal to lying is equal to theft, and so on. Henceforth, God will forgive you regardless of what you have done. He doesn't consider you worse than the next person. The important thing is to swallow pride, confess and so forth. Even more importantly, it's not necessarily required to repent all the time. It is important, however, that the contents of your heart remain in good faith.

Taking all of the above into consideration, yes, as a Christian at least, you can kill yourself and still go to heaven, just like how you can lie, and die unexpectedly and still go to heaven, be depressed and go to Heaven and the list continues.

I'm not attacking any member on this forum, nor am I trying to guilt trip, or convert anyone to Christianity. This is just what I've been taught, and I want to clear up misconceptions about Christianity. Whether or not God is real, or whether there is an afterlife is still dependent on what you believe. As someone who - despite being raised as a Christian - is agnostic, but still hopeful that nothing truly comes after death, no one truly knows what's going on.

 

[Depressed Cat]

Are there things like heaven, hell, afterlife, reincarnation etc.? No one knows for sure. All these are religious beliefs a.k.a. blind beliefs (since they're unproven & unprovable).

As far as science is concerned, there is nothing after death.

On the topic, taking one's own life is not the same as taking the life of someone else.

Suicide is not a sin as the religious hordes would have one believe.

 

[fox_wannabe]

I never understood why people believe they will go to hell or heaven.

Like there is some logical or physical law, that makes some go to there and others to somewhere else. It is completely arbitrary and It is matter of silent agreement to going to hell or heaven. We just believe in that sorts of stuff to cope with reality.

People just believe anything they have been told about after life and take it for granted. Like imagine you were Hindu: I have to reincarnate over and over again like 100000 times. Like: is there any reasoning behind it?

I believe we do have more than one life and we lived through many lives before, but that is my belief. You must find your own truth, follow your own path and digest knowledge you choose.

 

[Snake of Eden]

I never understood why people believe they will go to hell or heaven.

I disagree. Idea of heaven and hell does have some simplistic sense to it. Duality is in everything. There is just a comforting and harmonious theme about good deeds make people go to heaven and bad deeds make people go to hell. It is also instrumental deterrent to instill in people the belief in consequences of their actions that can follow them after death. Come to think of it, if people truly believed that cant get away with murder, abuse, exploitation, theft etc they wouldnt be inclined to do these things so much especially back in the day with not as much legal governence as it is today. If people were more conscious to consequences of their actions they cant escape. So no it is not arbitrary

 

[112]

Did you try to ctb by holding your breath? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Yeah idk. It could be a false memory. I took an absurd amount of amphetamines. The whole sequence I have trouble remembering.

 

[Ta555]

Well, I'm glad someone else also heard of this. I hope we're right.

Eh, look, Christianity is just one of thousands of religions that has existed. It only got widespread because it was there at the right place and right time with what was happening in Rome. If the Roman elite didn't start using it as a political tool it would've died out like many others. There's no more truth to Christianity than any other religion. Which is zero. Zero truth.

 

[Mr2005]

It's nonsense, just a bunch of guilt tripping. It's hell people who commit suicide are trying to escape

 

[Versailles]

There's no logic behind the concept of hell in the first place.

Exactly, hell is used by church pastors to scare and attract members

Here a pastor with the voice of a mother-in-law is saying that children will go to hell for watching cartoons

 

[Dragon's Heart]

The consequences of man-thought are incredibly limited in their perceptions. I take issue with having free will and then, all of sudden, there is no more? I'm thinking that is spiritual slavery, not freedom, in which case, I refuse to participate. Go ahead, make me. It'll be amusing.

 

[fox_wannabe]

So no it is not arbitrary

Well, what would reinforce that apart from our wishful thinking?
It is also based on idea of people having free choice, some people have no choice but to be a bad guy. We are privileged to live in society that does not force us to take law in our hands or to defend ourselves.
And what is good deed anyways. Some people do harm thinking they doing good. We want to think we do good while we may contribute to suffering of others.

Sometimes acts that we may think as sins or rude actions, cause others to suffer less. Like euthanizing dog with fatal disease, not feeding the beggars, giving people tough love instead of letting them repeat their mistakes.