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DeadManLiving

DeadManLiving

Ticketholder
Sep 9, 2022
227
Reincarnation's biggest problem is the vacancy paradox. Remember that over 150 Billion people have lived and died, not over the entire course of human history, but from when civilization began and reasonable estimates could be made. So it's certainly more but will keep it at 150 billion.

If the theory of reincarnation is that when soul or body/life X dies, it transcends and rebirths as a new being or "being to be" inhabiting soul/body and life Y, then that theory is not possible to exist except but for a few seconds maybe at a point of equilibrium that will last a moment and then deviate or regress back into into impossibility. In other words, the balance (X= big N or quantity of) people and lives who have lived/died X is and will always be disproportionate to the present lives that are living and alive (let's enumerate that by small n=Y during the present Epoch or period of the population census).

The problem with reincarnation if the former is what is postulated is therefore a vacancy deficit or surplus that will never be in perfect equilibrium. What if a nuclear war wipes out all but 1000 people and civilization must start again, if it ever does. Then who is the arbiter that chooses which among those 150 billion lives who have lived before in the past as the set or collection of X and decides which among 150 Billionth life Y shall transcend into rebirth considering that there are 150,000,000,000 'past lives' to choose from among? How does The selection process work when there is a surplus of dead lives, in view of the fact that the current or near future present population is only 10 billion in proportion, disproportionately?

Is it a random or non random selection process, feature selective, iterative like in accounting we have FIFO first in first out or LIFO last in first out?

Assuming no nuclear disaster and we have as it stands 6 billion people in the world right now that have been born as a rough non fact checked guess, make it 10 billion hypothetically for easy numbers .... Then only 10 billion among the 150 billion can possibly reinhabit or rebirth if reincarnation is true.


That presents a problem because what happens to the 140 billion souls and lives that have died in the past but have no present or current available number of lives to rebirth into or inhabit? Are they waiting in some purgatory state of a waiting list, stuck in cosmic limbo, until their turn comes?


The greatest problem is that this waiting list and vacancy will only exponentially increase with population growth. A life that was born and lived is counted as a unique discreet life. According to reincarnation it will either have some past life assigned to it or a past life that it is reliving, but as time goes on this becomes increasingly impossible because the vacancy of lives lived cannot be cohabited or come integrated, meaning that one body or person cannot possibly be born into three discreet different lives at once.

Next we have the flip side of the coin or the deficit a priori problem of lives that have no prior ancestor that can rebirth it, due to the present population census exceeding the past death census.

Once overpopulation exceeds the census count of all lives that had previously lived and died and can in equilibrium now inhabit or rebirth in a one to one function, population is not static and is either in the state of regression or a growth above the mean. So once the number of people that have lived and died in the past equals the current census of people that live such that reincarnation is possible, the population growth will at some quick point surpass equilibrium into a new era of vacancies, into an excess of living lives with not enough ancestors to possibly rebirth. There would be nobody that died left after all living persons have been rebirthed to inhabit your body!

Most or all of the present members of the population will have exhausted the number of their ancestors, exceed the number which have lived and died before present and that is the inverse of the problem or the deficit vacancy paradox.

If we manage to colonize space and other planets to make room for these wait-listed hundreds of billion past lives that are waiting for new ones to be rebirth, then we could say that the population at present is in equilibrium with the deceased population. When these two curves meet, then that is when reincarnation is only possible.

But the curves will meet and continue departing from each other and deviating. Assume that space colonization and population growth exceeds the number of prior lives lived and died. Now we have a bigger problem - how can we say which lives were rebirth or have had past lives assigned, apart from those who are born without any since the curves or the problem has Now inverted to an excess of population in proportion to the past population?

Secondly, consciousness is only the deterministic flux and flickering of electronic signals between neurons in the brain. Consciousness exists at the awareness and wakefulness axes, and is measured by electrical frequency in the brain produced by electrical activity that flows through neurons as we think. Once clinical and biological death occurs, electrical activity slowly begins to stop as neurons die during a process called apoptosis, which is programmed cell death or when any part of your body decides that it's going to die or rot like gangrene. The process is irreversible and results in your brain cells becoming like a fried motherboard that has turned into dust as if it were dipped in liquid nitrogen and broken into a trillion pieces.

How therefore is it possible or probable that these trillion pieces of partially organic material can reassemble itself in a different location on Earth?

Once the brain is unable to generate any electrical activity because of apoptosis during death, consciousness is no longer possible. Your brain is like a chair or a piece of floor tile or ceramic object it cannot transmit any signals or information and any information or signals and it's final state is lost forever. It's like a computer or a machine that once shuts off, forgets where it left off and decays due to static and whatever injury that would make it inoperable.

Therefore consciousness is only possible when the brain is alive and once it dies unless somebody can build a highly highly expensive and mighty ultra resolution Atomic imaging system to capture the state of all of your neurons and their present firing signals precisely at the moment of death and maintain an archival copy of all of this data, there is no possible way to ever restore, transfer or keep alive some other metaphysical copy of a soul or state of existence. How would it travel and where would it go through? Which power lines or fiber optic networks?

Once you are dead you are in the same state you were before you were born, and you're safe from all harms in life that are certain to arise in the future had you have chosen to continue living, although yes there is a tiny microscopic probability that you would regret your decision after winning some lottery of love or whatever under the deprivation opportunity cost account, but that is also unlikely since the greatest number of suicides is in the Elder cohort between the ages of 65 through 78, while the second leading cause of death is suicides for ages under 34.
 
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locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
5,734
I'm an atheist and believe there is nothing after "this", whatever this is.

I, also, believe that if everyone believed this maybe, just maybe, we'd treat each other better, knowing that all we have is each other, and once someone we care about is gone, they're gone.
 
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Dusk till dawn

Dusk till dawn

Member
Sep 7, 2018
61
I think i'll just cease to exist, fade away into just small atoms until the universe reaches it's final phase and all that's left is darkness.
 
A

akwa

Member
Apr 20, 2024
27
I think it's nothing, but if it's reincarnation, I'm going to be so pissed. Except I won't actually. Because I will be something or somebody else. Ugh. The cycle of rebirth and death would truly be a curse.
 
S

Slough Walker

Member
Apr 22, 2024
14
After you die, you're greeted by a pipe-smoking rabbit named George who says, "Good on ya, mate!" then kicks you into another womb to try again.
 
divinemistress36

divinemistress36

Enlightened
Jan 1, 2024
1,832
I have only read a few comments here and I share what I know based on knowledge I was born with. Those that absolutely do not want to exist or do not want any further human existence, well, the bad news is that your existence will continue. Before death is life, after death is life, it is so continuous that you might not even immediately realize that you are dead. That is the bad news for those that are fans of the non-existance. The good news is that your human existence will in fact not continue. We take on human lives, human bodies, human personalities for a certain lesson or mission that we have to complete but we are not humans. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. So your human self, human identity, human understanding, human will, human personality will be gone. In fact you will not carry on your personality, nor religion, nor sex, nor ethnicity, nor political beliefs, none of that is part of you. That is the costume you put on, to have a human experience. It is temporary and you will easily shed it like an old clothes. So some things will die, your human self will die, so that is the good news for those that want non-existence. The soul that remain with no human personality remnants automatically will connect to the entirety of existence, and it is now fully connected of everything. Everything that happens to everyone else is part of you. Separation becomes an illusion. And this human-less self that is infinitely connected with all of existence, which is essentially God, want to participate in this large existence project and learn and evolve and experience every facet of love. This is when we are at HOME. This is a home where we keep going back to. However this HOME consists of LOVE. Love is the ingridient of this world, the building block that builds it up at a cellular level. Love is the building block. This HOME has no suffering, no negativity, it is pure light and love. However due to the lack of dichotomy, in this pure love and light it is more difficult to evolve and learn every aspect of love. You need adversity and dichotomy to learn certain things, what is compassion, what is love in spite of hardship, millions of experiences, some good, some bad, some traumatic, all kinds of experiences that are not possible at HOME. HOME is pure light and love, there is no adversity. So we keep coming back to live new lives, all designed with a purpose, and your soul participate actively in the design of the new life, depending on certain objectives. I am sorry to say, and I know that it is hard to believe but your soul volunteer to come here. Your soul is not your current human personality. For your soul, an earthly life is a fleeting moment, a fleeting moment of illusion that serves to learn a certain lesson or objective. Human life is not a punishment, we all come here willingly. Not your current human personality but your core soul that is made of love and light and is connected and part of all of creation. Also, reincarnation is not mandatory and not a factory line. You usually don't reincarnate inmedialtly. You might spend a small eternity planning your next human incarnation and all the objectives that you and your soul community want to achieve. You plan it with others as your life will also be needed to get the goals of other souls achieved successfully (this is why not recommended for a parent with a small child to CTB as the child's objective will be linked with the parent's). And as an earthly life is not punishment, reincarnation is not mandatory. However, it is not your human personality that makes the choice whether to reincarnate or not. It is your Soul that makes the decision that is full of Light and Love and is connected and part of all of existence, which is God. And your Soul is driven by Love and want to serve and evolve and manifest God in the physical world. So your Soul will volunteeraly born again and again, sometimes choosing very difficult life times, depending on the current objective, which is an individual objective but also connected to the objectives of all of the universe, all that exists. I also know what happens when you CTB prior to completing your objective, but that is for another post. And people, I am very very sorry, I know that a huge amount of people on this forum is a big fan of the non-existence. I don't want to be attacked, this is what I know, and I know this to be true. All I can say that consider what if maybe, maybe, only maybe, your human self, your poor tortured traumatized limited human brain does not have the full picture. Just consider it, or not, just don't attack me. For sure, your human self with the human personality will die at the time of death so there will be non-existence for the human. However the Light that took on and took of the human body, the Light that has no religion, no culture, no sex, no ethicity, no belief system, no personality quirks, that Light does not have expiration date as it is part of God.
I can't wait to go home
1000004837
I'm afraid of reincarnation
 
B

Barkhan

Member
Dec 20, 2023
9
I'm almost sure that reincarnation awaits us. but not the kind that is talked about in religions, with karma, nirvana and so on. No. It will simply be a continuation of your subjective experience in other bodies.
I am guided by very simple logic. I agree that after death there will be nothing, perhaps it will last for billions of years. But one day you will again realize yourself in a new body. Of course you won't save anything from this life. No memory, no personality. Only consciousness will be reborn.
Why do I think this? Well, the logic is very simple. We have already come from oblivion once, in childhood. I don't think anyone will argue with this. The simplest conclusion follows from this - the probability that "you" could be born and begin to understand the world was greater than zero. And after your death it will still be greater than zero. No matter how small it is, and no matter how long it takes for you to return. Given an infinity of attempts, the probability that this will still happen is equal to one. Perhaps it will be in another universe altogether, after our universe dies and quantum effects give rise to a new big bang. It doesn't matter. I would like to clarify that I have absolutely no idea exactly how this could function and I'm not even touching on the existence of the soul. I'm just drawing conclusions from the fact that it already happened once and there's no reason why it can't happen again.
 
offtoseethewizard

offtoseethewizard

Student
Aug 19, 2023
114
Reincarnation's biggest problem is the vacancy paradox. Remember that over 150 Billion people have lived and died, not over the entire course of human history, but from when civilization began and reasonable estimates could be made. So it's certainly more but will keep it at 150 billion.

If the theory of reincarnation is that when soul or body/life X dies, it transcends and rebirths as a new being or "being to be" inhabiting soul/body and life Y, then that theory is not possible to exist except but for a few seconds maybe at a point of equilibrium that will last a moment and then deviate or regress back into into impossibility. In other words, the balance (X= big N or quantity of) people and lives who have lived/died X is and will always be disproportionate to the present lives that are living and alive (let's enumerate that by small n=Y during the present Epoch or period of the population census).

The problem with reincarnation if the former is what is postulated is therefore a vacancy deficit or surplus that will never be in perfect equilibrium. What if a nuclear war wipes out all but 1000 people and civilization must start again, if it ever does. Then who is the arbiter that chooses which among those 150 billion lives who have lived before in the past as the set or collection of X and decides which among 150 Billionth life Y shall transcend into rebirth considering that there are 150,000,000,000 'past lives' to choose from among? How does The selection process work when there is a surplus of dead lives, in view of the fact that the current or near future present population is only 10 billion in proportion, disproportionately?

Is it a random or non random selection process, feature selective, iterative like in accounting we have FIFO first in first out or LIFO last in first out?

Assuming no nuclear disaster and we have as it stands 6 billion people in the world right now that have been born as a rough non fact checked guess, make it 10 billion hypothetically for easy numbers .... Then only 10 billion among the 150 billion can possibly reinhabit or rebirth if reincarnation is true.


That presents a problem because what happens to the 140 billion souls and lives that have died in the past but have no present or current available number of lives to rebirth into or inhabit? Are they waiting in some purgatory state of a waiting list, stuck in cosmic limbo, until their turn comes?


The greatest problem is that this waiting list and vacancy will only exponentially increase with population growth. A life that was born and lived is counted as a unique discreet life. According to reincarnation it will either have some past life assigned to it or a past life that it is reliving, but as time goes on this becomes increasingly impossible because the vacancy of lives lived cannot be cohabited or come integrated, meaning that one body or person cannot possibly be born into three discreet different lives at once.

Next we have the flip side of the coin or the deficit a priori problem of lives that have no prior ancestor that can rebirth it, due to the present population census exceeding the past death census.

Once overpopulation exceeds the census count of all lives that had previously lived and died and can in equilibrium now inhabit or rebirth in a one to one function, population is not static and is either in the state of regression or a growth above the mean. So once the number of people that have lived and died in the past equals the current census of people that live such that reincarnation is possible, the population growth will at some quick point surpass equilibrium into a new era of vacancies, into an excess of living lives with not enough ancestors to possibly rebirth. There would be nobody that died left after all living persons have been rebirthed to inhabit your body!

Most or all of the present members of the population will have exhausted the number of their ancestors, exceed the number which have lived and died before present and that is the inverse of the problem or the deficit vacancy paradox.

If we manage to colonize space and other planets to make room for these wait-listed hundreds of billion past lives that are waiting for new ones to be rebirth, then we could say that the population at present is in equilibrium with the deceased population. When these two curves meet, then that is when reincarnation is only possible.

But the curves will meet and continue departing from each other and deviating. Assume that space colonization and population growth exceeds the number of prior lives lived and died. Now we have a bigger problem - how can we say which lives were rebirth or have had past lives assigned, apart from those who are born without any since the curves or the problem has Now inverted to an excess of population in proportion to the past population?

Secondly, consciousness is only the deterministic flux and flickering of electronic signals between neurons in the brain. Consciousness exists at the awareness and wakefulness axes, and is measured by electrical frequency in the brain produced by electrical activity that flows through neurons as we think. Once clinical and biological death occurs, electrical activity slowly begins to stop as neurons die during a process called apoptosis, which is programmed cell death or when any part of your body decides that it's going to die or rot like gangrene. The process is irreversible and results in your brain cells becoming like a fried motherboard that has turned into dust as if it were dipped in liquid nitrogen and broken into a trillion pieces.

How therefore is it possible or probable that these trillion pieces of partially organic material can reassemble itself in a different location on Earth?

Once the brain is unable to generate any electrical activity because of apoptosis during death, consciousness is no longer possible. Your brain is like a chair or a piece of floor tile or ceramic object it cannot transmit any signals or information and any information or signals and it's final state is lost forever. It's like a computer or a machine that once shuts off, forgets where it left off and decays due to static and whatever injury that would make it inoperable.

Therefore consciousness is only possible when the brain is alive and once it dies unless somebody can build a highly highly expensive and mighty ultra resolution Atomic imaging system to capture the state of all of your neurons and their present firing signals precisely at the moment of death and maintain an archival copy of all of this data, there is no possible way to ever restore, transfer or keep alive some other metaphysical copy of a soul or state of existence. How would it travel and where would it go through? Which power lines or fiber optic networks?

Once you are dead you are in the same state you were before you were born, and you're safe from all harms in life that are certain to arise in the future had you have chosen to continue living, although yes there is a tiny microscopic probability that you would regret your decision after winning some lottery of love or whatever under the deprivation opportunity cost account, but that is also unlikely since the greatest number of suicides is in the Elder cohort between the ages of 65 through 78, while the second leading cause of death is suicides for ages under 34.
Im not a believer in reincarnation but your vacancy paradox misses some crucial math…

Your speculation that every one of the 150 billion needed another incarnation isn't right - because theoretically each person has incarnated many times, so the root amount of 'souls' needing a body is far, far less than this 150 billion number
 
T

TheUncommon

Member
May 19, 2021
83
I mean, consciousness isn't a tangible thing, it doesn't really exist. Consciousness is just the name we give to the collections and interactivity of the combination of senses that animals have.

Living animals are physically identical objects as dead animals, the only difference is that the dead animal no longer sustains itself and starts to decompose. There is no "soul" or "consciousness.zip" that gets removed from the body upon death, so there's no reason to believe that an item that doesn't exist should be transferred to another location or realm of reality.

However, since living animals are made of organic material, it also is undeniable that the constituents of a previously living body become involved in the creation of a new body, and in turn, a new consciousness. I mean, the chemicals that make up your egg or sperm cells, like potassium, zinc, and calcium, originated from some fish, or chicken, or some other food you ate at one point. In that sense, the death of that animal became directly responsible for and inherited into the body of a new person.

It's just that none of the experiences or memories would transfer over.
 
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Felodese

Felodese

Student
Mar 31, 2024
110
Nothingness. Non-existence.
Abd that's so comforting to think about.
 
E

Esokabat

Student
Apr 22, 2024
154
I can't wait to go home
View attachment 138067
I'm afraid of reincarnation

I can't wait to go home
View attachment 138067
I'm afraid of reincarnation
Since you are quoting me, as I mentioned in my post, it doesn't work like this. It is not inmediate, it is not without your collaboration and decision making, it is not mandatory, and usually there is planning involved from your entire soul group, deciding the time, the place, your parents, your physical and mental attributes, all the physical and mental weaknesses and challenges, parent dynamics, your larger family, the socioeconomic context, the country, the year and time. In fact you might decide that you are sufficiently traumatized from the Earth school and not return for a few centuries. Nothing is being done to us. As we have free will on this side, we continue to have free will on the other side. But the only difference is that the decision maker on the other side is your forever self that is connected to infinite intelligence and part of everyone and everything so it doesn't make decisions based on your current human personality or the limited information that your physical brain has access to. Many many people know this globally, but it appears they are not on this site. It does't matter in a sense as the truth is the truth regardless whether we believe in it or not, and many people on this site will know the truth in just a few days or weeks or months, so it really doesn't matter what they currently think. It can change in an instant and it will.
 
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denjiwillsaveme

denjiwillsaveme

Member
Apr 11, 2024
21
I think the egg theory is interesting and it makes the most sense to what we think what can happen to us; this also correlates to bi polar disorder and what the mind carries from past lives and currents lives...
 
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Toriinbed

Toriinbed

Member
Apr 1, 2023
17
I used to believe, without question, that I was going to reincarnate.

I even took on the Hindu faith, having been born C of E.

However, since being in many comas (overdoses) where there was literally nothing, I now believe that could be an option.

But, I've also become addicted to watching NDEs (Near Death Experiences) and I believe there actually is a heaven. I know there is a hell, and we are existing in/on it, right now.

I'd like to think that heaven is real, so that I can be reunited with lost loved ones, but I just don't know.

What about you? What do you think happens, and what would you like to happen?
A small part of me likes to believe I can reincarnate but it's also comforting thinking about not ever needing to feel anything anymore. Like when you go to sleep without having a dream.
 
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