Discussion do you think it's right to bring a child into this world?

[halleyscomet]

one of the main reasons i have yet to ctb is because of the thought as raising a child, carrying on my bloodline and trying to bring a decent human being into this world.

but now i'm questioning if it's moral to birth a child into this world, knowing how fucked up it all is.

what do you think?

 

[sserafim]

No.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I imagine most will say 'no' here. Many of us are antinatalists. Many of us wish we'd never been born so, we don't like the idea of our children growing up to feel the same way.

I'm not so militant about it that I hate parents but- I do worry for all children. I wonder what they have in store for them. I wonder if they'll ever go through the kinds of emotions we do. I hope not but- I'm concerned for them.

 

[EternalDreams]

Honestly thought about that once before, with me ending my bloodline. But looking at the bigger picture we are all specks of dust in space so it doesn't matter.

I would never bring a child into this world, even if I have complete full recovery. I would only choose to adopt.

 

[ForgottenAgain]

I think that if you have the means and you believe you have the qualities for being a good parent, being there for that human during their own life, then yes, it is moral to bring a child to this world.

Your life may have been terrible but that doesn't mean your child's will be. Especially if you want to give them what you didn't have and you're capable of being a good parent.

I don't hold such views that the world is horrible or that life is horrible. Life is horrible for some people, bad circumstances. Life is great for a lot of other people, good circumstances. I think having a child can bring a lot of meaning to one's life and can provide a source of love and care for someone else. Watching that human succeed, doing your best to make them happy, caring for someone for the sake of wanting to give them the best. I think it is a noble cause and can be beautiful.

I'm uncertain whether I'll have children, mainly worried about mental illnesses that can be related to genes, but if that is not a concern and you're a capable and dedicated person, that truly just wants to give the best to another human, be selfless, I think you can make another person very happy.

 

[UKscotty]

Depends if you can offer them stability and encouragement to grow and be happy.

Life is a privilege but needs to be nutured and supported for the first 20 years or so by mentally strong parents.

 

[Ash]

I think every woman should be allowed to make that decision for herself and it's nobody else's business. Pro choice and all that.

 

[notspecial]

one of the main reasons i have yet to ctb is because of the thought as raising a child, carrying on my bloodline and trying to bring a decent human being into this world.

but now i'm questioning if it's moral to birth a child into this world, knowing how fucked up it all is.

what do you think?

No. For me, it's more worth adopting, helping someone in need

one of the main reasons i have yet to ctb is because of the thought as raising a child, carrying on my bloodline and trying to bring a decent human being into this world.

but now i'm questioning if it's moral to birth a child into this world, knowing how fucked up it all is.

what do you think?

No. For me, it's more worth adopting, helping someone in need

 

[rozeske]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't believe in the whole 'don't bring a child because the world is terrible' thing. Don't bring a child in to this world when you are not emotionally and economically ready to raise a child. Don't bring a child in to this world when you don't have a sound reason other than just being bored or to fulfill societies expectation from you. Don't bring a child in to this world if you are going to end up encouraging them to die.

 

[LastLoveSong]

no its terrible, and you probably only want to bring a child into this world so you can raise it your way and "prove" that you are a good person because you are somewhat insecure about that

But I dont think anyone should have a say on bringing another human into this world, especially with all the physical problems they could have

also people dont want an actual offspring, they want a vessel of a child that they can look at and go "cuuutteee" and control for their whole lives, and then they gain consciousness and the parents scream at them and abuse them because they aren't what their idea of a "perfect" child is

Also theres the chance that you have twins or triplets or more, which is another thing people don't think about when they only want one baby

 

[Silent_cries]

No, I don't think it's moral at all! I'd still gratulate ppl if they had one though, bc saying anything wouldn't rly make a different and it's not like they can just un-birth the child either. Besides, I wouldn't want to deal with any confrontation either. I never rly bother to voice my opinion outside ss anymore bc ik it's pointless anyway. Ppl are never going to listen. All I can do at this point is to hope to God that humans will go extinct one day coz there is nothing that can be done at this point.

Honestly I agree with Eternal, if you want children adopt one instead, if anything you're at least giving a home to a homeless child, and it's already been given birth to at that point so it's not like you're forcing another being into this reality either. Although please, no matter how painful it might be, if the child doesn't want to live don't force it to do so. No one should be forced to live in this existence if it's not humane to them, regardless of age imo.
I'm not saying you shouldn't get them help, absolutely do so if you find that it could benefit from it, all I'm saying is that you should respect the childs wishes and not force it to live in pain if it doesn't want to. It should always be ppls own decicion wether they want to live or not. Either way I wish you luck! <3

 

[Praestat_Mori]

The world isn't fucked up in general. You don't need to consider CTB if you don't want to procreate. You have full control over that - "accidents" can be prevented.

It's a complex question whether it's ok to procreate.

I personally never intended to procreate, I never felt like I wanted to have a child / become a father. Not to procreate was the best decision I ever made in my life.

 

[AkitoSad]

I don't know. I've always wanted a kid that I could teach and see grow up but I realize that's not often the case for the kid. The kid may hate the life they are born into, not wanting any of this but the kid may also grow up to love himself and perhaps be better off. I think its selfish I was born when I didn't want to but I think there are a lot of people that are genuinely happy and are glad they were born in this world.

 

[Namarupa]

I think every woman should be allowed to make that decision for herself and it's nobody else's business. Pro choice and all that.

I don't think it's fair that one has to go through an entire existence of suffering simply because whimsical women find it endearing. Antinatalism is a matter of ethics, not individual freedom.

 

[Ash]

I don't think it's fair that one has to go through an entire existence of suffering simply because whimsical women find it endearing. Antinatalism is a matter of ethics, not individual freedom.

If you want to talk ethics, maybe consider the use of words such as "whimsical" and "endearing". But whatever.

Hitting the ignore button now because, well, I want to.

 

[Darkover]

 

[Silent_cries]

I think every woman should be allowed to make that decision for herself and it's nobody else's business. Pro choice and all that.

So if a woman is a psychopath or a narciccist (not saying the op is one, by any means!), should they still be allowed to choose wether they want a child they can abuse or not? Would that still be morally right? Coz that's practically what you're saying right now. You need to try to see every aspect of things. Besides, how would it be humane for a child to grow up in a society with sky high expectations, messed up mental health system, a government that doesn't give a shit about you etc.?
You ever wonder why ppl get suicidal at the age of 4?
(I'm not exaggarating, read the "when was the first time you felt suicidal" thread and you'll see what I mean)
Doesn't that say anything about society to you?

 

[INTJme]

I don't think it's fair that one has to go through an entire existence of suffering simply because whimsical women find it endearing. Antinatalism is a matter of ethics, not individual freedom.

Yes, antinatalism is a matter of ethics, but personal ethics, and it's upon the individual to make the right choice for themselves. Individual liberty cannot be bypassed when talking about ethics because... where's the ethic in that?

 

[Darkover]

About 1 in 33 babies (about 3 percent) is born with a birth defect in the United States

The estimated risk of having a child with autism is approximately 1.7% in the general population
About 1 in 68 children are diagnosed with autism

babies are born with Down syndrome, which is about 1 in every 700 babies born.

How much of the population is disabled?
Key facts. An estimated 1.3 billion people experience significant disability. This represents 16% of the world's population, or 1 in 6 of us.

Globally, there are 24 million people with schizophrenia or 1 out of 300 individuals in every country. This amounts to 0.32% of the worldwide population.

What is the evidence on worldwide prevalence of bipolar disorder? Moderate to high quality evidence suggests the lifetime worldwide prevalence of bipolar disorder is around 1% thats 80 million people, and the one-year prevalence is around 0.5%.

How many people have autism? According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 1% of the world's population has autism spectrum disorder – over 75,000,000 people. That may be a large number, but autism spectrum disorder (ASD) features a wide range of symptoms and levels of severity.

ADHD is estimated to affect around 5% of children thats 400 million and 2.5% of adults worldwide 200 million, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

 

[INTJme]

So if a woman is a psychopath or a narciccist (not saying the op is one, by any means!), should they still be allowed to choose wether they want a child they can abuse or not? Would that still be morally right? Coz that's practically what you're saying right now. You need to try to see every aspect of things. Besides, how would it be humane for a child to grow up in a society with sky high expectations, messed up mental health system, a government that doesn't give a shit about you etc.?
You ever wonder why ppl get suicidal at the age of 4?
(I'm not exaggarating, read the "when was the first time you felt suicidal" thread and you'll see what I mean)
Doesn't that say anything about society to you?

Not saying it's desirable for a mentally unstable individual to give birth but how do you ensure that without impinging on individual liberty and freedom? Or are you proposing a world where everything is controlled by institutions?

Also, it was me who wrote I was suicidal at age 4 in that post you mention. However, my parents had no way of knowing I'll turn out that way. After my mom got pregnant did things take a wild turn, making me a "stress baby". Nobody can predict the future and I certainly don't blame my parents for my depression. I just am.

 

[BrainShower]

Not saying it's desirable for a mentally unstable individual to give birth but how do you ensure that without impinging on individual liberty and freedom? Or are you proposing a world where everything is controlled by institutions?

Exactly. I love how 90% of the people on a site who are pissed off about getting their rights taken away are for other people's rights being taken away.
Smh
Edit: and that's why we can't have nice things generally

 

[4am]

personally i don't think that you should ever bring a child into this world, when not only will your child have a chance of living a horrible life, but that there are already a lot of struggling orphans in the world. that's why i strongly believe that if you really want to have a kid, it's so much better to adopt one. by doing that you'll do two good things, not only will you help somebody in need to have a better life, but you also won't bring new life into this world, potentially preventing the unnecessary suffering they might have experienced.

i never understood the aversion for adoption some people have, and their craving for their kids to have the same blood they have, as if that's some kind of achievement, or something so noble. i respect parents who adopt children much more than child bearers, as they are doing good for the world by reducing harm instead of creating more of it

 

[Namarupa]

Yes, antinatalism is a matter of ethics, but personal ethics, and it's upon the individual to make the right choice for themselves. Individual liberty cannot be bypassed when talking about ethics because... where's the ethic in that?

Not when the choice in question leads to incalculable (quite literally) suffering. No personal desire of others justifies my inability to consent in being born.

 

[Darkover]

Not saying it's desirable for a mentally unstable individual to give birth but how do you ensure that without impinging on individual liberty and freedom? Or are you proposing a world where everything is controlled by institutions?

The idea of requiring a license to have children has been debated for many years, but it raises significant ethical and practical concerns. The decision to have children is considered a fundamental human right, and imposing a licensing system could be seen as a violation of personal freedom and reproductive autonomy. Additionally, determining who should be allowed to have children and who should not raises complex moral and legal questions. Instead, many societies focus on providing education, healthcare, and social support to help ensure the well-being of children and families.

The mother and father must obtain a license before getting pregnant. Babies born unlicensed receive no welfare from the government.

To obtain a license the mother and father have to pass a test:

1. Medical/physical test, eg: morbidly obese parents cannot have children.
2. Financial: can prove the ability to provide for the child
3. Social: can prove the environment to bring the child up in is suitable (eg: live near schools, no violent family members)

Licenses only last for say, 2 years. Then must be renewed, not unlike a vehicle license.

My original idea included that unlicensed pregnancies meant an abortion, but that's a bit immoral and would probably also offend a few people (more than the general idea anyway).

 

[voidstar]

Even disregarding that our world is going to shit at a rapid speed - I wouldn't ever want to pass on my genetics and curse any offspring with my mental disorders and physical ones. Sadly most are genetic/inheritable.

 

[Namarupa]

Exactly. I love how 90% of the people on a site who are pissed off about getting their rights taken away are for other people's rights being taken away.
Smh
Edit: and that's why we can't have nice things generally

I don't see the contradiction in that. I don't think crackheads should be allowed to purchase firearms, per say. Unreasonable "rights" lead to mayhem.

 

[INTJme]

Not when the choice in question leads to incalculable (quite literally) suffering. No personal desire of others justifies my inability to consent in being born.

Would you have minced the same words if you had an amazing life? Also, consent doesn't exist in nature; it's a human construct like ethics or freedom or whatever. You play the cards you're dealt. If you're unhappy about it, do something, even if it means ctb. You weren't asked for consent when brought into the world and nobody can stop you if you really wanna ctb either. I think it's fair game.

 

[Silent_cries]

Not saying it's desirable for a mentally unstable individual to give birth but how do you ensure that without impinging on individual liberty and freedom? Or are you proposing a world where everything is controlled by institutions?

Also, it was me who wrote I was suicidal at age 4 in that post you mention. However, my parents had no way of knowing I'll turn out that way. After my mom got pregnant did things take a wild turn, making me a "stress baby". Nobody can predict the future and I certainly don't blame my parents for my depression. I just am.

And where did I say ppl should have their freedom taken away? I'm not going to refuse a person to give birth, I couldn't give two fucks about what ppl do with their lives. All I'm saying is that it isn't humane in any circumstances to have children coz the child is going to suffer wether you like it or not. You should think about the children too, not just the parents!

 

[INTJme]

The idea of requiring a license to have children has been debated for many years, but it raises significant ethical and practical concerns. The decision to have children is considered a fundamental human right, and imposing a licensing system could be seen as a violation of personal freedom and reproductive autonomy. Additionally, determining who should be allowed to have children and who should not raises complex moral and legal questions. Instead, many societies focus on providing education, healthcare, and social support to help ensure the well-being of children and families.

The mother and father must obtain a license before getting pregnant. Babies born unlicensed receive no welfare from the government.

To obtain a license the mother and father have to pass a test:

1. Medical/physical test, eg: morbidly obese parents cannot have children.
2. Financial: can prove the ability to provide for the child
3. Social: can prove the environment to bring the child up in is suitable (eg: live near schools, no violent family members)

Licenses only last for say, 2 years. Then must be renewed, not unlike a vehicle license.

My original idea included that unlicensed pregnancies meant an abortion, but that's a bit immoral and would probably also offend a few people (more than the general idea anyway).

As much as I would hate a child suffering, this license thing sounds pretty dumb to me. How about we "waste" our resources on building a better society with less crime and stress instead?

 

[Ash]

So if a woman is a psychopath or a narciccist (not saying the op is one, by any means!), should they still be allowed to choose wether they want a child they can abuse or not? Would that still be morally right? Coz that's practically what you're saying right now. You need to try to see every aspect of things. Besides, how would it be humane for a child to grow up in a society with sky high expectations, messed up mental health system, a government that doesn't give a shit about you etc.?
You ever wonder why ppl get suicidal at the age of 4?
(I'm not exaggarating, read the "when was the first time you felt suicidal" thread and you'll see what I mean)
Doesn't that say anything about society to you?

And that's why we need significantly better systems to help, support and protect children (all vulnerable dependents). But speaking generally, yes, I firmly believe that all women should have the right to make her own decisions about her own fertility.

And that includes women like myself who had to fight tooth and nail to have a hysterectomy when I was younger because the system assumed I would regret it later on. Spoiler alert: no desire to have children; no more agonisingly painful and scarily heavy periods that lasted for two weeks or longer; no regrets.

It also includes women I know who went through round after round of expensive IVF and so many miscarriages before finally carrying a baby to term. I might privately think they should have adopted but that's my opinion, not my right to make that decision or judge another woman for her choices.