Discussion do you think it's right to bring a child into this world?

[MelancholyMagic]

I think every woman should be allowed to make that decision for herself and it's nobody else's business. Pro choice and all that.

Is it not the business of the child who is cruelly forced into the world?

 

[halleyscomet]

Honestly I agree with Eternal, if you want children adopt one instead, if anything you're at least giving a home to a homeless child, and it's already been given birth to at that point so it's not like you're forcing another being into this reality either. Although please, no matter how painful it might be, if the child doesn't want to live don't force it to do so. No one should be forced to live in this existence if it's not humane to them, regardless of age imo.
I'm not saying you shouldn't get them help, absolutely do so if you find that it could benefit from it, all I'm saying is that you should respect the childs wishes and not force it to live in pain if it doesn't want to. It should always be ppls own decicion wether they want to live or not. Either way I wish you luck! <3

It's more likely than not I'm actually infertile! Adoption/fostering is something that I would consider long before having my own child.
The only reason why I am considering birthing a child in the future, is due to nobody else in my family being able to do so.
If I don't have a child my whole bloodline will die. It's a lot of pressure for one girl.

Though I don't believe I would be bringing my child into a bad environment. If my child is in that much pain, and nothing else works, I would happily assist in ctb. No matter whether the child is biologically mine or adopted.

This thread has gotten very heated! I am only looking through now so I hope you guys are patient with me as I reply.

i never understood the aversion for adoption some people have, and their craving for their kids to have the same blood they have, as if that's some kind of achievement, or something so noble. i respect parents who adopt children much more than child bearers, as they are doing good for the world by reducing harm instead of creating more of it

I do not care about bloodlines, it's really the rest of my family that has put a lot of pressure on me to bare a child, as I am the only one capable.

I say "capable" but I'm actually more or less infertile due to an ovary condition. Having my own child wouldn't be impossible but it would be unlikely.

Everyone else is either completely infertile, or not capable of caring for a child.

I would love to adopt, even if I do have my own child, I would adopt as well, or at least foster.

I feel like everyone on this thread thinks I'm like this bloodline savior that hates orphans haha!

To obtain a license the mother and father have to pass a test:

1. Medical/physical test, eg: morbidly obese parents cannot have children.
2. Financial: can prove the ability to provide for the child
3. Social: can prove the environment to bring the child up in is suitable (eg: live near schools, no violent family members)

Licenses only last for say, 2 years. Then must be renewed, not unlike a vehicle license.

I completely agree with this idea!

In practicality it may not be as easy to implement, but there should be some standardized test/classes that a parent should take before caring for a child.

I think the issue with having a childcare license are current issues we are having with the adoption/foster care system right now.

A lot of biases come into play discouraging, queer people, disabled people, mentally ill people, ect... to care for children making it much harder for them to be able to adopt kids even if they are more than capable. I think this kind of discrimination would be repeated in a standardized license for childcare.

It is a really good idea though, it's just a pain in the ass to implement.

 

[thewalkingdread]

To me, the answer to this question is very simple and should be posed as follows:

1. Do you think it is a good thing to make one suffer gratuitously?

(Reasonable people will respond to this question with a resounding 'no'.)

2. If one is born, one will certainly suffer gratuitously — with 100% chance that one will die. (Dying is, of course, a guaranteed suffering)

3. Do you want you child to suffer gratuitously and, eventually, die?

(I don't. And that's why I never had a child and never will.)

 

[halleyscomet]

To me, the answer to this question is very simple and should be posed as follows:

1. Do you think it is a good thing to make one suffer gratuitously?

Reasonable people will respond to this question with a resounding 'no'.

2. If one is born, one will certainly suffer gratuitously — with 100% chance that one will die. (Dying is, of course, a guaranteed suffering)

3. Do you want you child to suffer and die?

I don't. And that's why I never had a child and never will.

I do agree with you, I think there's such a societal pressure as a woman to bare a child.

You're made to feel like a failure of a woman if you don't. I think that's why so many people still have children.

I am not going to make a baby right away lol, guys I'm only 18. It's just an interesting question to me is all, it's all hypothetical guys don't worry.

I've got a very long time until I have to make any decisions about this haha.

 

[Silent_cries]

It's more likely than not I'm actually infertile! Adoption/fostering is something that I would consider long before having my own child.
The only reason why I am considering birthing a child in the future, is due to nobody else in my family being able to do so.
If I don't have a child my whole bloodline will die. It's a lot of pressure for one girl.

Though I don't believe I would be bringing my child into a bad environment. If my child is in that much pain, and nothing else works, I would happily assist in ctb. No matter whether the child is biologically mine or adopted.

This thread has gotten very heated! I am only looking through now so I hope you guys are patient with me as I reply.

I do not care about bloodlines, it's really the rest of my family that has put a lot of pressure on me to bare a child, as I am the only one capable.

I say "capable" but I'm actually more or less infertile due to an ovary condition. Having my own child wouldn't be impossible but it would be unlikely.

Everyone else is either completely infertile, or not capable of caring for a child.

I would love to adopt, even if I do have my own child, I would adopt as well, or at least foster.

I feel like everyone on this thread thinks I'm like this bloodline savior that hates orphans haha!

I completely agree with this idea!

In practicality it may not be as easy to implement, but there should be some standardized test/classes that a parent should take before caring for a child.

I think the issue with having a childcare license are current issues we are having with the adoption/foster care system right now.

A lot of biases come into play discouraging, queer people, disabled people, mentally ill people, ect... to care for children making it much harder for them to be able to adopt kids even if they are more than capable. I think this kind of discrimination would be repeated in a standardized license for childcare.

It is a really good idea though, it's just a pain in the ass to implement.

I'm not going to take part of this discussion anymore as it did get a little too heated for my own good, but I will say that you seem like a great person and I'm sorry that your family is pressuring you so much! I hate that there is so much pressure in this society. That's not how it should be. No matter what direction you go, I wish you good luck! <3

 

[TiredOfAllThis]

This is only for very responsible people.

 

[sserafim]

I do agree with you, I think there's such a societal pressure as a woman to bare a child.

You're made to feel like a failure of a woman if you don't. I think that's why so many people still have children.

I am not going to make a baby right away lol, guys I'm only 18. It's just an interesting question to me is all, it's all hypothetical guys don't worry.

I've got a very long time until I have to make any decisions about this haha.

Do you ever want to rebel against societal pressure and expectations? My dad expects me to bear a child and continue the family line, and I hate this. I'm not having children out of antinatalism and spite

 

[thewalkingdread]

The decision to have children is considered a fundamental human right, and imposing a licensing system could be seen as a violation of personal freedom and reproductive autonomy

That's exactly where our Law and Justice belief systems are just plain WRONG and totally unwarranted. Having a child is not any person's fundamental human right — for many reasons.

First of all, procreation it's not exactly a PERSONAL fundamental human right because it's obviously something people do as a consequence of being in some sort of a binary relationship. Even when a woman goes to a sperm bank in order to be a single mom, for instance, there has to be a lawful contract between her and the sperm donor.

I would go on and say that having a child is actually a complex TERNARY relationship, where:

1. The will of the potential child outweighs the will of the potential mother.
2. The will of the potential mother outweighs the will of the potential father.

(Sorry, "boys"... But from a strict biological point of view, a man's role in the process of procreation is quite small, as we all know it... It takes only 10 minutes to ejaculate and 9 months to incubate. So the weight of a man's will should be proportional to that...)

While two persons do have the right to engage in a romantic relationship as they please, having a child is a course of action that transcends their personal freedom and the couple's choice. That's because the will of the potential child ought to outweigh everything else.

Here is where things get confusing and apparently whimsical... And here is where the antinatalism consent argument plays a crucial role.

We obviously can't possibly have the consent of the potential child to be birthed before it's birth and age of legal consent (18-21). Therefore, the consent argument will advocate that, since we can't get the potential child's consent, we ought not to birth it — because that's the only choice where no harm is ever done.

So, to sum up: the decision of being brought to life ought to come from the potential child, not from their progenitors.

That is one more hard evidence of how Nature is essentially UNJUST.

 

[Return2themoonlight]

I honestly believe it varies from person to person. Some people have the resources to adequately care and raise a child in a good environment while others know for a fact that bringing a child into the world would be outright horrible. For me, I could never and will never even if I win the lottery tomorrow due to what I've experienced growing up and my own mental state. Nobody wants their own direct bloodline to experience what they went through, at least nobody on here anyways. Once again, I believe it varies from person to person.

 

[halleyscomet]

Do you ever want to rebel against societal pressure and expectations? My dad expects me to bear a child and continue the family line, and I hate this. I'm not having children out of antinatalism and spite

I do, and I should. But I love my family, I love people. I just want them to be happy.

I mean I've spent my whole life going against social norms, it's never gotten me anywhere though. I guess in recent times I've kinda given up.