Do you think animals commit suicide?

[eternalmelancholy]

I know that animals sometimes engage in self destructive behaviors that may lead to their death. Such as animals drowning themselves or voluntarily starve. But do you think this is the same thing as suicide?

 

[whywere]

I was raised on a working dairy farm and at least for me the answer is yes. I always wondered when a farm animal would get very sick, it would just stop eating and drinking water and a few days later would pass away.

Be it a pig, cow, horse, I saw each of these basically do the same thing. One could put food and water by them, and they never would touch either.

Always made me wonder why, when I first saw this happening, then I finally had a ah moment and thought that they were just done and tired.

Walter

 

[eternalmelancholy]

I was raised on a working dairy farm and at least for me the answer is yes. I always wondered when a farm animal would get very sick, it would just stop eating and drinking water and a few days later would pass away.

Be it a pig, cow, horse, I saw each of these basically do the same thing. One could put food and water by them, and they never would touch either.

Always made me wonder why, when I first saw this happening, then I finally had a ah moment and thought that they were just done and tired.

Walter

Thank you Walter for sharing your first hand experience with us. People always say that I am trying to humanize animals when I try to understand their feelings. Animals are a lot smarter than most people give them credit for.

 

[Orchid_Passed]

While some animals do exhibit self-destructive behavior, I'd say only humans really have the degree of self-awareness to actively choose suicide.

 

[rationalis]

I was raised on a working dairy farm and at least for me the answer is yes. I always wondered when a farm animal would get very sick, it would just stop eating and drinking water and a few days later would pass away.

Be it a pig, cow, horse, I saw each of these basically do the same thing. One could put food and water by them, and they never would touch either.

Always made me wonder why, when I first saw this happening, then I finally had a ah moment and thought that they were just done and tired.

Walter

Working dairy farms seem like one of the most depressing places on the planets. The constant forced artificial impregnation of cows, only to have the baby stolen, every time.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

Working dairy farms seem like one of the most depressing places on the planets. The constant forced artificial impregnation of cows, only to have the baby stolen, every time.

I always pictured dairy farms as picturesque fields in the Alps where animals roam and play. Then the farmers craft beautiful artisanal cheeses from the collected milk. I think I have a habit of romanticizing everything.

 

[Anxieyote]

I found this to be an interesting observation from the Animal Suicide page on Wikipedia:

"Many animals that appear to be depressed or grieving begin to exhibit self-destructive behavior that sometimes ends in death, but this is not considered suicide, as the achieving of death was not necessarily the purpose or objective of the behavior."

So they could get sad enough to engage in behaviors that lead to death, but they haven't consciously decided "This is my suicide method" like we would. All speculation of course, since we have no way of knowing what they're really thinking.

The page also mentioned that it would be morally-questionable to conduct experiments that could potentially drive an animal to commit suicide, so there's not much research to go off of.

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

Dégus (small not chinchillas) will let themselves starve to death if they get sad.

 

[little helpers]

I know that animals sometimes engage in self destructive behaviors that may lead to their death. Such as animals drowning themselves or voluntarily starve. But do you think this is the same thing as suicide?

quite a lot of species of animals commit suicide. and I been thinking if that qualify as choices too. on one hand it's clear some of them are from in-wired behavior. but on the other hand, a cornered cat jumping off from height is still an act of sound judgement.

it's just, when humans can never get what they want and/or need in life, they can *choose* death. whereas I can't be certain if other animals feel the same thing about prospects. some argue that future-thinking is tied to a solid self-concept. I can see good neuro and philosophical reasons that it may be. but we're yet to know if there are exceptions to the rule, or that's not a rule at all.

I know dogs can have depression but we've not seen "depressed pet dog committed suicide, owner is devastated" reports, do we?

scientists, go study chimpanzees, orangutans, gorillas, dolphines etc 'bout this one.

 

[whywere]

Thank you Walter for sharing your first hand experience with us. People always say that I am trying to humanize animals when I try to understand their feelings. Animals are a lot smarter than most people give them credit for.

Thank you for the kind response. YES, animals are VERY smart. If there was a part of a fence that was down one can be sure that they found that opening in the fence and got g out. Always knew that when the neighbor would call and tell us that our animals were in the field.

Have a great rest of this week and lots of hugs and well wishes to you.

Walter

 

[little helpers]

Dégus (small not chinchillas) will let themselves starve to death if they get sad.

I just said something 'bout dogs getting depressed but now I'm here wondering how people knew those déguses are sad… forgive my ignorance and limitation.

mostly becuz behavioural signs are easier to read and to compare. and comparative analysis can be a highly reliable method. sadness, though, may not elicit any distinctive expression. people do all sorts of things when they're sad, and cry under a variety of circumstances. there's tears of happiness, anger, pain, fear, laughing so hard that you cried, crying for no obvious reason. seems to me that there's not an emotion that humans can't cry on. so that indicator is unreliable and we're left with nothing to compare to.

I do wanna learn more about it if you wanna talk.

 

[GentleJerk]

Some animals do things that lead to their own death. But like @AnxiousSchizoid said, It's probably impossible to say if it's 'suicide' in our sense of the word. In some cases, it's debateable whether or not it's deliberate, or done with the intention of dying.

Personally, I don't think they do. But who knows?

 

[Someone123]

I always pictured dairy farms as picturesque fields in the Alps where animals roam and play. Then the farmers craft beautiful artisanal cheeses from the collected milk. I think I have a habit of romanticizing everything.

It's not just you- this is how the marketing presents it- if the marketing presented what really happens dairy consumption would go way, way down.

I know that animals sometimes engage in self destructive behaviors that may lead to their death. Such as animals drowning themselves or voluntarily starve. But do you think this is the same thing as suicide?

Without a doubt- there are many documented instances of this- they experience the same range of emotions as people.

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

I just said something 'bout dogs getting depressed but now I'm here wondering how people knew those déguses are sad… forgive my ignorance and limitation.

mostly becuz behavioural signs are easier to read and to compare. and comparative analysis can be a highly reliable method. sadness, though, may not elicit any distinctive expression. people do all sorts of things when they're sad, and cry under a variety of circumstances. there's tears of happiness, anger, pain, fear, laughing so hard that you cried, crying for no obvious reason. seems to me that there's not an emotion that humans can't cry on. so that indicator is unreliable and we're left with nothing to compare to.

I do wanna learn more about it if you wanna talk.

They make cute little sad noise and have no energy or curiosity anymore. It sounds like they're doing the rodent equivalent of sad laments.

 

[little helpers]

They make cute little sad noise and have no energy or curiosity anymore. It sounds like they're doing the rodent equivalent of sad laments.

woah. now I learned something.
thanks!

Some animals do things that lead to their own death. But like @AnxiousSchizoid said, It's probably impossible to say if it's 'suicide' in our sense of the word. In some cases, it's debateable whether or not it's deliberate, or done with the intention of dying.

Personally, I don't think they do. But who knows?

as far as I know, rabbits, deer, and cats ("kitty cat" cats, don't know 'bout lions and stuff) start to isolate themselves when they become terminally ill. this lowers risks of themselves being hunted when they're too weak to outrun predators, and/or disease outbreaks in a community should it be contagious.

this, nonetheless, goes along self-preservation or that for the species. "deliberate/intentional" means one thing when it's programmed (which is still deliberate, they just may or may not comprehend it), and another when it's understood and chosen.

for it's the knowledge of it that's made death scary for way too many people, I think I'd expect other animals to exhibit some sort of fear of death if they comprehend it. maybe they do. there's cats who would purr to themselves moments before death touches them, in order to self-soothe. but no one knows if that's fear at the last minute, or some perpetual fear they've carried with them all their lives.

Edit: although in multi-cat households where one cat dies, others often hardly respond any differently. go sniff the things it has used (like cats do with all things) and just happily occupy them, even when they were close (sleeping together, brushing fur etc.) with each other. they are like that with another cat's dead body, even. nothing more than an object that doesn't move. it could be the smell of the deceased cat changing that they now fail to recognize it as a cat. but mostly likely, I suppose, they don't quite understand the death of another. and without that, it's hard for me to think they understand death overall either.

 

[blueclover_.]

My pet turtle doesn't want to touch his food. I think he's depressed. I told my dad we should let him go to the wild, but he refused because 'it's too dangerous out there'. I don't know what to do.

 

[D&D]

Reading the thread reminded me of a quote I once found - 'People do not die from suicide; they die from sadness.' (Anonymous)

When animals isolate themselves, stop eating and drinking ... they are 'sitting' with their wounds, their sadness and preparing to leave. As we do. Only we call it 'suicide.'

 

[domedune]

I think it's naive to assume non-human animals can't or won't kill themselves intentionally. The truth is we don't know.

There is debate in the scientific community on whether dolphins can kill themselves by choosing to not breathe (dolphins breath consciously, unlike humans). There are reports of dolphins ceasing to breathe after being separated from loved ones.

 

[AlwaysAnhedonia]

My pet turtle doesn't want to touch his food. I think he's depressed. I told my dad we should let him go to the wild, but he refused because 'it's too dangerous out there'. I don't know what to do.

I had a pet turtle when I was younger that without warning stopped eating and essentially starved to death. It was very traumatic. Maybe it was seeking a way out for suffering in captivity. I don't know for sure.

 

[JonathanBrisby]

I've heard that dolphins actually control every breath they take. So when depressed or traumatized they can decide to just not to make any more breath. There is a video somewhere with a mother dolphin whose baby has been abducted by hunters, she's so heartbroken trying to save him so when the baby was taken away she just spotted breathing, gone under the water, and never swim back ;;

And, yes, depressed dogs and farm animals, I believe, can do a similar thing with not eating.

My pet turtle doesn't want to touch his food. I think he's depressed. I told my dad we should let him go to the wild, but he refused because 'it's too dangerous out there'. I don't know what to do.

Oh I'm sorry to hear that! Perhaps you could take him to the herpetologist? I believe they know what to do with depressed animals, too. Maybe he needs some vitamins or something actually, it would be much easier. Or could it be he's trying to hibernate?
If you can't take him to the vet try searching for forums or groups about turtles if you didn't yet. There might be people who can help you, you just need to explain to them all about the maintenance conditions and take a photo. I've had turtles before (red-eared sliders) and these groups helped me to analyze pet's conditions so I could start to treat them before a visit to the vet.
Sorry if I said an obvious thing, I don't know your level of knowledge about all this ;; I really hope you figure out what's up with him, wish you the best of luck!

 

[blueclover_.]

I've heard that dolphins actually control every breath they take. So when depressed or traumatized they can decide to just not to make any more breath. There is a video somewhere with a mother dolphin whose baby has been abducted by hunters, she's so heartbroken trying to save him so when the baby was taken away she just spotted breathing, gone under the water, and never swim back ;;

And, yes, depressed dogs and farm animals, I believe, can do a similar thing with not eating.


Oh I'm sorry to hear that! Perhaps you could take him to the herpetologist? I believe they know what to do with depressed animals, too. Maybe he needs some vitamins or something actually, it would be much easier. Or could it be he's trying to hibernate?
If you can't take him to the vet try searching for forums or groups about turtles if you didn't yet. There might be people who can help you, you just need to explain to them all about the maintenance conditions and take a photo. I've had turtles before (red-eared sliders) and these groups helped me to analyze pet's conditions so I could start to treat them before a visit to the vet.
Sorry if I said an obvious thing, I don't know your level of knowledge about all this ;; I really hope you figure out what's up with him, wish you the best of luck!

Thanks. Tbh i don't know anything about turtles--he's not even mine, my dad got him for my little sister. But now i'm the only one who feeds him regularly, my family just watches him for amusement then leave. Thank you for the reply, i'll try my best!

 

[peacetoall]

One of my favorite videos and is relevant to your question

 

[little helpers]

Reading the thread reminded me of a quote I once found - 'People do not die from suicide; they die from sadness.' (Anonymous)

When animals isolate themselves, stop eating and drinking ... they are 'sitting' with their wounds, their sadness and preparing to leave. As we do. Only we call it 'suicide.'

beautifully put.

 

[little helpers]

My pet turtle doesn't want to touch his food. I think he's depressed. I told my dad we should let him go to the wild, but he refused because 'it's too dangerous out there'. I don't know what to do.

TL;DR: turtles/animals can be like that. it's okay (that the turtle isn't doing well). but I understand why you're hurting. it could be something about its habitat that's not working. I know I sound really, really cruel saying "it's okay", but I'll explain.

I keep a cat. 5 months old now. mom's friend keeps tons of cats and just let 'em do their own things, every breeding season. friend owes mom some money, felt sorry and gifted mom a kitten. mom wants no cats, so lil cat lives with me. I named it "lil man". it's meowing in the cutest way now as I type.

I read some vet stuff so that lil man don't need to suffer through my own hands. turns out there's every fucking reason that animals would stop doing what their life needs. a lot of cats, for example, would become unable to take a piss after they been stressed out. burnt out might be a better word, I think, cuz the condition can last very long till they get kidney stones and shit. or you know, the classic "rabbit dead cuz owner bathed it" stuff, even when it wasn't causing physical problems for the rabbit. it's the *fear* of hypothermia, that got them rabbits literally die from this stress, trauma, almost INSTANTLY. I think it's a fucking wonder that they *do*, but also a fucking wonder that humans *don't*. as long as the body's alive, the human mind gives you a second, third, fourth, a thousand even, alter to go on. I have four other. I am one, the host, wanting to take everyone on this boat with me and sail to death. not the "original" cuz there's no "originals" once the mind splits. we had another host before, now she's just "dead", in the head, not functioning to the outside world anymore.

I know the medical world invalidates our experiences but this is the only answer I have as to why I'm always losing time. and it took *me* so long to realize and to accept that. my ex has it too. we both diagnosed at this point.

so I mean, life is not easy for whichever animal. there's every way functions can go wrong. and it's meant to be like that, really. for every way something'll be able to work, there's a way it can break down *or* still function but differently. "differently" like, autism, ADHD, or like DID/OSDD (what I/we have). that's why I say sick and mad people are always gonna be with us. as long as humanity exists, we are here. same with other animals.

no one knows if your pet turtle wants to see a vet or not, go to the wild or stay home. but it's okay that lil turtle isn't doing alright though. there's always gonna be turtles like that.

although from what I heard, providing the right kind of habitat for many species of turtles can be tricky. maybe there's a way with that. we don't wanna *cause* another to suffer, but a lot of the times when there's little we have under our own control, it's more compassionate and caring to simply accept and bear with that.

 

[meetapple]

There is a bridge in Scotland called the Dog Suicide Bridge. Many dogs have jumped or fallen from this bridge.

 

[little helpers]

There is a bridge in Scotland called the Dog Suicide Bridge. Many dogs have jumped or fallen from this bridge.

oh boy. "jumped" doesn't sound like accidental. I saw this. "at least one instance, a dog allegedly jumped from the bridge, survived, ran up the slope and then jumped off once again."

now I really feel like it's suicidal, if this is true. people just use "allegedly" for everything that we don't even know what's real anymore. shit.

Edit: ohhh, it went on to say there's a correlation between jumping and breed. says long-nosed types make up most of these jumps and so it might be the scent of wild animals that made them jump (for hunting). cats don't have fear of height, dunno 'bout dogs. it's like I'm afraid the lil cat I keep would jump straight off from the closet if I put a snack on ground level while it's there. that it's not gonna take the route that got it there. the cat doesn't even know the closet door's not stable when opened. I know cuz it has tried stepping and walking on it. fucking scared me.

 

[D&D]

beautifully put.

Thank you.

so I mean, life is not easy for whichever animal. there's every way functions can go wrong. and it's meant to be like that, really. for every way something'll be able to work, there's a way it can break down *or* still function but differently. "differently" like, autism, ADHD, or like DID/OSDD (what I/we have). that's why I say sick and mad people are always gonna be with us. as long as humanity exists, we are here. same with other animals.

This is it - 'still function but differently ... like, autism, ADHD or ... ' just because something/someone functions differently to what is deemed 'normal' which comes down to acceptable/tolerable to the majority, should not mean 'one way ticket to lonely, isolating hell' as it does in our world. 'Madness' is just as part of being human as 'non-madness' is. We would never have many, many works of art if it wasn't for the 'mad artists' that created them. Not every 'mad person' is an artist, but I think many would found some way to express themselves if only given a chance.

 

[motel rooms]

While some animals do exhibit self-destructive behavior, I'd say only humans really have the degree of self-awareness to actively choose suicide.

Of course. An animal doesn't know that it will die.

 

[Mynameisnotimportant]

YES, YES YES.
My background: worked in petstores, very involved in the exotic animal community. Currently breeding 14 cockroach species, 4 reptile species

Parrots engage in self harm and pluck feathers when stressed. most 5+ year old birds I see at exotic pet stores have some degree of feather picking. This is because they form such connections with their humans and with birds having a long life span, many are rehomed multiple times. Snakes often starve themselves to death. I have sadly had to force feed a few snakes. Especially talk to anyone who works with ball pythons.

I feel that animals would commit suicide at the same rates humans do if they were smarter. Nature is extremely cruel

 

[little helpers]

just because something/someone functions differently to what is deemed 'normal' which comes down to acceptable/tolerable to the majority, should not mean 'one way ticket to lonely, isolating hell' as it does in our world.

man, I feel this so hard. my ex is autistic and has OSDD. she's masking her autism so hard that she doesn't even get a break and just gets straight to sensory overload. I wish she can have the space where she takes a break. told her she doesn't need to worry about stimming when she's around me. but it nearly shocked me into "thought failure" when she said, "I don't really know how to turn it [the masking] off. I wanna. but it's like the programs that run once the computer's waked."

gawd. and months later I saw an autistic Youtuber say very similar things. it breaks my heart. them not having the space to be themselves, to be seen and heard and felt as the person that they are, and be loved that way. not as someone they're pretending to be. not being stuck on stage where they have to perform something "palatable" for everyone at every second.

it often frightens me thinking that if she didn't mask so hard, she might not even be here, where I met her. so many autistics get abandoned, negelected, locked up, hidden from everyone, not even their family would see them. eugenics since birth.

we don't have to make it like this. so many ableists tout empathy each day while they feel nothing about denying others' right to just exist. well, the neurodiversity movement is well on its way.