Discussion Do you believe in fate?

[Forever Sleep]

What do you think? Is there such a thing? Are we predestined to encounter certain things?

Sometimes I like the idea of it- because I'm lazy probably. I probably like the idea of not being entirely responsible for my life. Makes me feel less of a failure.

I have had weird experiences too- like instinctively feeling something bad was about to happen. I had a weird feeling to hide something once and because I didn't (because it seemed such an odd thing to do), someone came into my room and destroyed a part of it. Maybe it was just coincidence but it was odd. Like- how could I have had an inkling about it if it wasn't going to happen?

How about you? Any fateful experiences you want to share? Even positive ones maybe- like randomly meeting your future partner at a bus stop or something?

I think I've even wondered whether suicide was my destiny. Still- I think it's more likely that I've just lived with the thoughts for so long that they've become ingrained.

 

[FuneralCry]

No, I just think that everything in this life is determined by chance rather than being predetermined. Like someone isn't destined for suicide as soon as they are born, but rather their decision is a consequence of what they go through in life.

 

[Un-]

I don't believe in fate exactly. I think a person will end up where they end up in life because they made the decisions they made. And they made those decisions because they are the person they are. It's confusing to phrase it, I suppose. It's what makes the most sense to me.

I'm here on this suicide forum because throughout my life, I made the choices that I made. And I made those choices because am me. Someone else would've made different choices, because they're a different person. And they would end up in a different place, because of the choices they made.

I got it from a video game.. People that were the supposed controllers of fate said that fate didn't really exist. But they could predict the life of a person because they knew the character of that person.. And hence, they know that that person acts a certain way. And will make particular decisions.

 

[CowsAreCool]

Fate can't exist because I can change my mind at a whim. Some of the largest decisions in my life I made impulsively. If I had a fate, I couldn't just impulsively move 1000 miles away from my home (which is what I once did). Unless my impulsions were predetermined. I'm not Calvinist, lol. I like to think I have free will.

 

[Jarni]

I would say yes if there was no internet. Your whole life can be changed 180 degrees by a message among billions seen on social networks or by a risky swipe on a dating site. Too many possibilities to be calculated every moment by fate. It's impossible.
Besides, I really recommend watching Jaco Van Dormael's magnificent film "Mr Nobody" on how our choices define our lives...

 

[Celerity]

I am a determinist. To me, chance refers to deterministic forces that we don't know are affecting a particular situation. Probability is an attempt using mathematics to estimate the size of that ignorance.

If I flip a coin, I say that I have a 50/50 chance of it landing on heads or tails, but that is because I do not know the angle at which my thumb strikes the coin or the exact amount of force I apply to its edge or the air resistance as it falls or the particular topography/curvature of the ground when it strikes the floor to roll and so on. If I knew all those things, I could predict exactly which side the coin would show and when. Since I don't, I just have my 50/50 "chance", but this estimate in no way means that the coin's trajectory isn't 100% determined by the laws of nature and the series of prior events that led to me flipping the coin at the moment I did.

Speculative theories about, say, quantum mechanics aside, what chain of causal events in the world can you point to where this logic does not apply?

If I eventually kill myself, I was destined to do so since the Big Bang, just as I was destined to survive the car accident I narrowly avoided years ago and just as I was destined to dip a cookie in my coffee this morning and lose a tiny bit of crumble because I dunked it for just slightly too long.

Coins, cars, and cookies - whatever they are and however I feel about them, they all proceed as they were always going to proceed.

 

[Sakura94]

I think what we call fate are things set in motion which are unavoidable. Like the water of a river can only go as directed by the ground. However it has happened so long, the erosion too deep, it's unavoidable.
Humans actually do have biological free will. However we are constrained by those that came before us that created traditions, conventions ect, and biological events which constrain our brain pathways/decisions and the spin of the earth from day to night. Christmas comes each year in the West even though it's not written into creation for it to happen. Just enough people force it to happen and their will isn't overwritten. You can get a general gist how things play out.
Determinism isn't real but it feels that way. It also feels good to think that way too as it justifies to ourselves why we didn't waste energy preventing something.

 

[Celerity]

I think what we call fate are things set in motion which are unavoidable. Like the water of a river can only go as directed by the ground. However it has happened so long, the erosion too deep, it's unavoidable.
Humans actually do have biological free will. However we are constrained by those that came before us that created traditions, conventions ect, and biological events which constrain our brain pathways/decisions and the spin of the earth from day to night. Christmas comes each year in the West even though it's not written into creation for it to happen. Just enough people force it to happen and their will isn't overwritten. You can get a general gist how things play out.
Determinism isn't real but it feels that way. It also feels good to think that way too as it justifies to ourselves why we didn't waste energy preventing something.

That's an interesting perspective. In my experience, it is the idea of determinism - not free will - that makes most people uncomfortable.

 

[Ultracheese]

The logical side of me says no. Most events can be correlated with a cause-and-effect chain. But the sappy part of me that listens to too many love songs says yes.

 

[Dead Ghost]

I know that there is no such thing as free will, I know that my parents were going to meet before they knew of their own existence, I know that we don't really choose anything at all. I have come to think that perhaps my thoughts were free, but I am beginning to think that the vast majority are not. I know that I have not really chosen anything about this life and that everything was predetermined well in advance.

The most I know of that a person can anticipate future events, in detail, is 4 years, but I don't know if there are predefined cycles of a certain length and if you can choose anything between these cycles, I would say no.
I know that if I commit suicide it will not be by my decision, just as in reality no leader is responsible for the evils that plague the planet, be they wars or natural disasters.

No one chooses to be born, no one chooses to cease to exist... but it is so hard for me to accept it that I will keep trying to fight my destiny even though I know that I am not responsible for my actions.

//

Se que no existeix el lliure albir, se que els meus pares s'anaven a conéixer abans de que sabéssin de la seva própia existéncia, se que realment no escollim res de res. He arribat a pensar que potser els meus pensaments eren lliures, però començo a pensar que la immensa majoría no ho són. Se que en realitat no he triat res d'aquesta vida i que tot estaba predeterminat amb molta antelació.

El màxim que cónec que una persona pot anticiparse a esdeveniments futurs, amb tot luxe de detalls, són 4 anys, però descònec si hi han cicles predefinits d'una durada determinada i si pots triar res entre aquests cicles, jo diría que no.
Se que si em suïcido no serà per decissió meva, a l'igual que en realitat cap dirigent es responsable dels mals que assolen el planeta siguin guerres o desastres naturals.

Ningú tria néixer, ningú tria deixar d'existir... però em costa tant d'acceptar-ho que seguiré intentant lluïtar contra el meu destí encara que sàpiga que jo no sóc responsable de les meves accions.

 

[CTB Dream]

No fste thing, determintic but no possible calculat ,thing just flow no predictable

 

[SamTam33]

I don't believe in fate exactly. I think a person will end up where they end up in life because they made the decisions they made. And they made those decisions because they are the person they are. It's confusing to phrase it, I suppose. It's what makes the most sense to me.

I'm here on this suicide forum because throughout my life, I made the choices that I made. And I made those choices because am me. Someone else would've made different choices, because they're a different person. And they would end up in a different place, because of the choices they made.

I got it from a video game.. People that were the supposed controllers of fate said that fate didn't really exist. But they could predict the life of a person because they knew the character of that person.. And hence, they know that that person acts a certain way. And will make particular decisions.

Not confusing at all.

It's the precise reason I loathe my father so much and am mostly indifferent towards my mother.

I've spent decades analyzing myself and my decisions; my bad habits and peeves; my good qualities too.

And every single bad quality (which leads to bad decisions), I've inherited from him.

I am who I am, I think the way I think, and do the things I do because my parents made me this way.

 

[LONE WOLF.]

Not confusing at all.

It's the precise reason I loathe my father so much and am mostly indifferent towards my mother.

I've spent decades analyzing myself and my decisions; my bad habits and peeves; my good qualities too.

And every single bad quality (which leads to bad decisions), I've inherited from him.

I am who I am, I think the way I think, and do the things I do because my parents made me this way.

When you talk about hating your father and feeling nothing for your mother l know Exactly what you mean!

 

[Source Energy]

No. Fate, karma, God, Heaven, Hell, Santa Claus...all invented by humans trying to justify the non sense of existing.
I believe we can influence our "fate" - but my circumstances became so unbearable that I cannot apply properly my own beliefs to turn my life around.

 

[Disappointered]

I feel as though even these deliberations are determined. The synapses that fire before we have a thought are determined.

 

[Sparr0w]

I am a determinist. To me, chance refers to deterministic forces that we don't know are affecting a particular situation. Probability is an attempt using mathematics to estimate the size of that ignorance.

If I flip a coin, I say that I have a 50/50 chance of it landing on heads or tails, but that is because I do not know the angle at which my thumb strikes the coin or the exact amount of force I apply to its edge or the air resistance as it falls or the particular topography/curvature of the ground when it strikes the floor to roll and so on. If I knew all those things, I could predict exactly which side the coin would show and when. Since I don't, I just have my 50/50 "chance", but this estimate in no way means that the coin's trajectory isn't 100% determined by the laws of nature and the series of prior events that led to me flipping the coin at the moment I did.

Speculative theories about, say, quantum mechanics aside, what chain of causal events in the world can you point to where this logic does not apply?

If I eventually kill myself, I was destined to do so since the Big Bang, just as I was destined to survive the car accident I narrowly avoided years ago and just as I was destined to dip a cookie in my coffee this morning and lose a tiny bit of crumble because I dunked it for just slightly too long.

Coins, cars, and cookies - whatever they are and however I feel about them, they all proceed as they were always going to proceed.

this is pretty much my position on free will / fate - there is no higher power or fate per say, but at the same time, things will always go a certain way because of who you are, your past, the suitation around you etc. it's best to act like you have free will and can change your actions in the future, because you can, and you do have free will, even though at the same time, every second of your life before that point leads up to it being "pre-determined" what you'll do.

i still like to toy around with ""fate"" here and there for fun, though! the bag i bought like 2 years ago i got because i had the exact amount on me that it cost, and i went "it's fate!" lmao.

 

[Ashu]

In the sense that I don't believe in free will.

 

[LONE WOLF.]

This is some really deep stuff but what about those of us who were never meant to be born! were our paths predetermined,this is a question l've pondered since I was 10yrs old

 

[Looking]

The preview did this thread dirty.

"Do you believe in fat" was an interesting title, you know I had to click on it.


To answer the thread OP: I'm not really sure, I go back and forth on the concept and haven't had a consistent view on it.

 

[Dead Ghost]

This is some really deep stuff but what about those of us who were never meant to be born! were our paths predetermined,this is a question l've pondered since I was 10yrs old

Yes, even your parents didn't have the will to meet.

//

Si, ni tan sols els teu pares van tenir la voluntat de coneixer's.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

This is a simple question but requires a complex answer. I will make it easy and simple for you.
You are born naked with nothing and leave the world naked taking nothing.

Always remember fate is divided into 3 parts:

First stage: Lays groundwork for most of your life. The things you cannot change. The arrow has already reached the destination.

You start with things you cannot change: Your upbringing, skin colour, circumstances, programming, personal strength and weaknesses etc.

Second stage: Picture the arrow already has left the bow. Things that are coming your way that you can only react to and can do nothing else.

Third stage: You have very limited things that you can change in your life. So you start changing them with resources available to you.
Picture yourself taking the bow and aiming to shoot.

If you look closely and carefully, the third stage is already predetermined and fated by the previous two stages.
So you can say freewill is an illusion.

My answer: Freewill is an illusion. You cannot escape fate. What will happen will happen; it is happening and already happened. The past, present and future are here and now.

Of course, I could sugarcoat and make you feel better, but the truth always prevails.
We are here for a ride, so keep calm and just play the role you're given in this life.


'All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players' or Actors.
William Shakespeare.


I could go very deep, but it gets complicated.

hint:

 

[Homo erectus]

Like Big Bang, much of life is decided in the first few years, if not minutes. It only takes time to play it all out. Perhaps there is freewill. Then deities, spirits, evils, and other people all have freewill. They will impose their freewill on others as much as possible. In a dense society where everyone is wishing the same things, there is little leeway left for each person.

 

[Sluggish_Slump]

I don't believe in fate in the sense that the future is written somewhere in the stars and predetermined, but of course there are things that are unavoidable (it's not the same as fate). However, I also don't entirely believe in free will, because no-one chooses their genetics or environment that influences their will.

 

[LONE WOLF.]

Yes, even your parents didn't have the will to meet.

//

Si, ni tan sols els teu pares van tenir la voluntat de coneixer's.

My birth mother was 14yrs old when she was raped so no her 'will' wasn't taken into consideration!!!

 

[Dead Ghost]

My birth mother was 14yrs old when she was raped so no her 'will' wasn't taken into consideration!!!

I am sorry for what happened to your mother and I apologize for making you angry, it was not my intention.

What I had written was not meant to define your personal situation, it was just an example. I could well have said anything else, like the fact that you could not even avoid writing in this post or that what you are thinking right now does not depend on yourself.
I just wanted to reinforce the idea of what fate means, nothing more than that.

I apologize for making you feel bad, I'm so sorry.

//

Sento el que li va passar a la teva mare i em disculpo per haver-te fet enfadar, no era pas la meva intenció.

El que havía escrit no pretenía definir la teva situació personal, només era un exemple. Bé podría haver dit quasevol altre cosa, com el fet que ni tans sols podies evitar escriure en aquest post o que el que estas pensant ara mateix no depén de la teva voluntat.
Només volía reforçar la idea del que significa el destí, res més que això.

Em disculpo per haver-te fet sentir malament, ho sento molt.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Yes. I'm a die-hard determinist. I consider alternative views to be incoherent.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Like Big Bang, much of life is decided in the first few years, if not minutes. It only takes time to play it all out. Perhaps there is freewill. Then deities, spirits, evils, and other people all have freewill. They will impose their freewill on others as much as possible. In a dense society where everyone is wishing the same things, there is little leeway left for each person.

It also does not mean if we are born poor, we stay poor and are doomed to poverty, or if we have bad genes, we won't achieve much in life. Perhaps our poverty will motivate us to win at any cost. You already know not all millionaires are intelligent people or can be considered very lucky, and they failed many times before they succeeded.

Life is complex, nature is far more intelligent, and we are only visitors.
As Steve Jobs said, "you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards".


Spiritual entities:

Deities are from a higher dimension. Ghosts, Spirits, or evil spirits are just energy fields, which means they have NO consciousness or intelligence for the most part.
I am only discussing 3 Dimensions or physical dimensions.

Dreamworld:

Even the dream world is a different dimension. In fact, with practice, you can control your dreams. You can be anything you want instantly in that dimension, and it does not feel any different from the earth dimension.

Perhaps the physical plane is a training place teaching us to evolve higher. It has specific laws that cannot be broken etc.

Deities in higher dimensions:

Even Deities for the most part don't break the rules created by the one consciousness/God/Creator/NATURE ETC.
I have experience with all of the so-called deities and other spiritual entities.
Deities work by helping you clear your karma or deal with fate in other ways that are easier, but you cannot escape fate.
Eg: They will save you from breaking your leg by giving you small cuts, but that still is going to make you bleed, and you still feel pain.
I am respectful and grateful towards benevolent deities, and they are part of my life.

Highly evolved Spiritual Masters (1 in a million chance, that is if you meet them due to soul contracts):

They take your bad fate or karma, and they get sick instead of you. So they carry your bad karma/fate for you. It is called karma transfer.

 

[Homo erectus]

It also does not mean if we are born poor, we stay poor and are doomed to poverty, or if we have bad genes, we won't achieve much in life. Perhaps our poverty will motivate us to win at any cost. You already know not all millionaires are intelligent people or can be considered very lucky, and they failed many times before they succeeded.

Life is complex, nature is far more intelligent, and we are only visitors.
As Steve Jobs said, "you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards".

In a world where 99.9% is ruled by 0.1%, is it worthwhile, meaningful or moral to win at any cost? 99.9% will fail, but they might find pleasure teasing those worse than them. Success is built on the suffering of others.

Or according to karma + reincarnation, people may act to create a better world for their future reincarnations. Some people are probably doing this in a passive way subconsciously. Birth rates are declining in many countries. If lives are important, living conditions and human rights will improve to stimulate birth.

But I don't think there is any chance of a smooth transition to any kind of utopia. Therefore, the idea of an asteroid impact that resets everything, or a Messiah,who suddenly brings a perfect world, is attractive.

Spiritual entities:

Deities are from a higher dimension. Ghosts, Spirits, or evil spirits are just energy fields, which means they have NO consciousness or intelligence for the most part.
I am only discussing 3 Dimensions or physical dimensions.

Dreamworld:

Even the dream world is a different dimension. In fact, with practice, you can control your dreams. You can be anything you want instantly in that dimension, and it does not feel any different from the earth dimension.

Perhaps the physical plane is a training place teaching us to evolve higher. It has specific laws that cannot be broken etc.

I think, God, the One, Thing-in-itself, hidden variables, and similar ideas, refer to the unknown rules and powers governing the world. When they are known, they become Science, or gods, like Apollo, Isis, who represent known patterns of the world. Science is God's will known to man. It can't be broken. But prayer may work when Science is silent.

Deities in higher dimensions:

Even Deities for the most part don't break the rules created by the one consciousness/God/Creator/NATURE ETC.
I have experience with all of the so-called deities and other spiritual entities.
Deities work by helping you clear your karma or deal with fate in other ways that are easier, but you cannot escape fate.
Eg: They will save you from breaking your leg by giving you small cuts, but that still is going to make you bleed, and you still feel pain.
I am respectful and grateful towards benevolent deities, and they are part of my life.

Highly evolved Spiritual Masters (1 in a million chance, that is if you meet them due to soul contracts):

They take your bad fate or karma, and they get sick instead of you. So they carry your bad karma/fate for you. It is called karma transfer.

I think in the everyday world, karma is similar to entropy. People may reduce their own suffering by drawing energy from elsewhere. But in doing so, it creates more suffering. It would be great if on a large scale entropy can be reversed. Some High Masters absorb bad karma without creating more.

 

[LONE WOLF.]

I am sorry for what happened to your mother and I apologize for making you angry, it was not my intention.

What I had written was not meant to define your personal situation, it was just an example. I could well have said anything else, like the fact that you could not even avoid writing in this post or that what you are thinking right now does not depend on yourself.
I just wanted to reinforce the idea of what fate means, nothing more than that.

I apologize for making you feel bad, I'm so sorry.

//

Sento el que li va passar a la teva mare i em disculpo per haver-te fet enfadar, no era pas la meva intenció.

El que havía escrit no pretenía definir la teva situació personal, només era un exemple. Bé podría haver dit quasevol altre cosa, com el fet que ni tans sols podies evitar escriure en aquest post o que el que estas pensant ara mateix no depén de la teva voluntat.
Només volía reforçar la idea del que significa el destí, res més que això.

Em disculpo per haver-te fet sentir malament, ho sento molt.

Apology accepted.

 

[AsAboveSoBelow]

Nah, I don't believe in the concept of 'fate'. We might have been born into a certain set of circumstances that we didn't choose. There are some things in our life that's beyond our control, but within ourselves, we have the choices to make decisions and perform actions according to what resources available to us, and as per our current circumstances permits.

If fate exists, we would not have any form of consciousness and awareness at all, and there would absolutely no point of doing anything, and humans could just sit still and not do anything and 'fate' will carry us and and perform our actions without us having to lift our bum lol.

Au contraire, our action (or inaction) and decision, no matter how insignificant they might seem, will bring us to a certain path, and so on. You can do some experiments on yourself.

Fatalism, karma and determinism etc. are concepts used by religionists and people in the position of power to justify their positions of authority and their shit hoarding of resources (money, power, etc.) , so they could pinpoint it on 'fate'. The same kinda people who would promise the poor afterlife and heaven, so that they would not revolt against the rich and the powerful, for all the injustice that's going on in this world that we're living in.