Do you actually think it’s selfish to CTB?

[LakeMungoGirl]

I'm curious what people on this forum think about this— whether or not suicide is a selfish act. Personally, I don't think so. I think it's more selfish to keep someone who is suffering alive for your own moral gratification.

 

[Crow_88]

Not in the least. I think it is brave.

 

[LakeMungoGirl]

I

Not in the least. I think it is brave.

Agreed. SI is one of the hardest things to overcome and death is a terrifying concept to most people. Who would willingly choose that kind of fear unless they have no other choice?

 

[scarystrawberry]

personally yes, I know it would affect several ppl in my life negatively and I'm rlly thinking only about my self and ending my own pain by CTB. Discounting the pain of others I would cause feels selfish. But that's just how I feel about my situation, I don't have the right to ascribe that judgment towards anybody else bc I don't know anyone else's situation but my own.

 

[Crow_88]

I

Agreed. SI is one of the hardest things to overcome and death is a terrifying concept to most people. Who would willingly choose that kind of fear unless they have no other choice?

Well said. It takes a lot to overcome fear of death. And like you said, to feel its our only option. That is a big bunch of courage needed to pull the plug on ourselves.

 

[Eudaimonic]

I would say that it depends on the situation (like if someone has dependents) but overall no.

 

[Emerita]

No I don't think it's selfish

Not in the least. I think it is brave.

This reminds me of a comment I made on Instagram, I replied to this person that basically said they hated people who committed suicide because it's selfish to take the easy way out. And it's selfish to put the pain on others. Then they went on some positive mumbo jumbo sh*t. And then some stuff about that its weak so, lift some weights instead.

My response:
Suicide is not the easy way out. How can you think that when humans have a survival instinct? Someone has to be in so much pain that they override that. That's not easy for someone to do. If someone sacrifices themselves, they are not seen as selfish. They too chose their own death; they left behind grieving people. But because they died for someone else, it's not seen as selfish, it's even heroic. But to die because you can't live anymore because of the pain, you're considered selfish. That's horrible. There is so much pain in a person committing suicide. People think it's weak when it's probably one of the bravest things to do. It's horrible that someone can be living in so much pain and suffering, thats the part I hate, I hate that the person was in so much pain, I can't hate someone for choosing to die.

They took my comment down, idk why…

 

[LakeMungoGirl]

No I don't think it's selfish

This reminds me of a comment I made on Instagram, I replied to this person that basically said they hated people who committed suicide because it's selfish to take the easy way out. And it's selfish to put the pain on others. Then they went on some positive mumbo jumbo sh*t. And then some stuff about that its weak so, lift some weights instead.

My response:
Suicide is not the easy way out. How can you think that when humans have a survival instinct? Someone has to be in so much pain that they override that. That's not easy for someone to do. If someone sacrifices themselves, they are not seen as selfish. They too chose their own death; they left behind grieving people. But because they died for someone else, it's not seen as selfish, it's even heroic. But to die because you can't live anymore because of the pain, you're considered selfish. That's horrible. There is so much pain in a person committing suicide. People think it's weak when it's probably one of the bravest things to do. It's horrible that someone can be living in so much pain and suffering, thats the part I hate, I hate that the person was in so much pain, I can't hate someone for choosing to die.

They took my comment down, idk why…

They took your comment down because you were speaking facts, lol

 

[lovelydove]

Not at all. Everyone's life is their own, and they should have the right to end it if they so please.

 

[iamthezero]

personally yes, I know it would affect several ppl in my life negatively and I'm rlly thinking only about my self and ending my own pain by CTB. Discounting the pain of others I would cause feels selfish. But that's just how I feel about my situation, I don't have the right to ascribe that judgment towards anybody else bc I don't know anyone else's situation but my own.

I feel similarly. I would never hold that sentiment to anyone else, life is a mf depression is a mf, trauma, mental illness all mfs. I would never think that way towards anyone else. but in my situation having people, family that depend on me, who would be greatly impacted by my death…it makes it feel impossible. I feel like I'm being held against my will and it's slowly breeding contempt. the misery is getting unbearable to the point where I'll do what I can to make it easier for them, but I must go. I know it'll hurt them, I get they may never recover from it. It feels like "I don't know what to tell yall but either I stay and go back to using and od or i go my way with some dignity. those are our choices". That kills me, that guilt feels selfish. I don't know. I just want to get things in order where I only leave them grief not unnecessary baggage.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'd say mixed feelings. It's selfish in as much as we do it knowing it will likely cause deep upset to others. But, even knowing that, we put our our needs first.

Having said that, I don't see it as selfish as someone who performs an action to gain something. I think that's why we're selfish in life mostly. But, I think people who suicide are usually trying to escape something- it's hardly selfish to want to escape pain and suffering.

I also think the very action of bringing a lifeform here- knowing how difficult life can be and then, expecting it to stay here- even if it is suffering- is also very selfish in its own way.

So- our actions would be selfish on the one hand. But, only in response to the selfish actions of others. Two wrongs don't make a right but, to some extent- I think you reap what you sow. You shouldn't even expect a sentient being to necessarily thrive and be happy in this world. There's more than enough to go wrong to create intense suffering. It shouldn't be a surprise if some people feel like they can't cope or, don't want to.

Which, to some extent, raises the question of whether we have the right to feel so upset about suicide in the first place. I think it's probably something that's hard to control. We do mourn for people when they die. Suicide does seem to create more intense emotions though.

But- maybe it's those emotional responses we ought to really be thinking about. People sometimes feel guilty. Do they have cause to ultimately? In which case- do they have the right to feel annoyed that their (possibly) abusive or neglectful behaviour has lead to consequences?

They sometimes feel angry too- with the person that took their own life. I think partly- that they weren't stronger and partly, because they exposed them to all that grief. But then- it comes to: Do we owe them? Do we have an obligation to them to be stronger than we are? Should we have put their needs above our own? Because I think that is ultimately what it comes down to. One person is going to be stuck with the pain.

But, for the suicidal person- their pain is a current reality. They can only guess as to what the grief at their suicide will do to others. Some indeed may be able to get over it better than others. So- I think there's that element too. If we're weighing up our suffering vs. their predicted suffering- I imagine for many suicidal people- they likely believe their current experience many times worse.

Which- as others have pointed out- sheds light on the selfishness of those who insist they still stay alive. How is that anything to do with love? To insist we remain alive and suffer- just so that they don't have to experience grief.

 

[FuneralCry]

No, to me the selfish thing is to impose this futile, torturous existence onto others in the first place and force them to suffer in this existence they never even chose against their wishes, I see so much cruelty in anti-suicide, it just causes so much harm and suffering and no matter what I'll just always prefer to not exist than be burdened with this existence I just always saw as a mistake, all I see as desirable is the peace of an eternal sleep where this dreadful existence is all forgotten.

 

[LigottiIsRight]

I think it can be considered selfish at some extent and varying between cases, but that doesn't make it less legitimate.
In my case, I know I'm putting my interests over the ones' that care about me, and I'm fine with it. If someone calls me egoist for it, I won't be bothered in the slightest.

 

[kunikuzushi]

Not selfish, more like self care.

 

[TooMuch.]

Not selfish at all

 

[Persona3]

I feel similarly. I would never hold that sentiment to anyone else, life is a mf depression is a mf, trauma, mental illness all mfs. I would never think that way towards anyone else. but in my situation having people, family that depend on me, who would be greatly impacted by my death…it makes it feel impossible. I feel like I'm being held against my will and it's slowly breeding contempt. the misery is getting unbearable to the point where I'll do what I can to make it easier for them, but I must go. I know it'll hurt them, I get they may never recover from it. It feels like "I don't know what to tell yall but either I stay and go back to using and od or i go my way with some dignity. those are our choices". That kills me, that guilt feels selfish. I don't know. I just want to get things in order where I only leave them grief not unnecessary baggage.

I won't give a clear yes or no, because it's a moral question and it depends heavily on individual circumstances. That's one of the reasons why I never wanted to have children and never will. Having children does make the situation just heavier and more complicated emotionally

 

[littlecutecorpse]

could be, or not. but even if it was, i couldn't care less. i think everyone in this world is selfish to some extent. what makes my suicide any different than my parents choosing to bring me into this world? what about loved ones wanting to keep me alive for their own good? doesn't make sense to me that suicide happens to be singled out from all other acts of self-interest....

^because i'm too much of a lazy bum to repeat but still wanna reply anyways :-)

 

[LakeMungoGirl]

^because i'm too much of a lazy bum to repeat but still wanna reply anyways :-)

Off topic but is that Raggedy Ann(?) in your pfp? My best friend loves her.

 

[idiotmother]

I will definitely be seen as selfish because I have a kid. I didn't ask to get this chronically ill and I hate all the judgement especially on a site like this. I never should have had a child , but I also could not predict I would get a mentally and psychologically crippling brain injury that is untreatable either. No one understands but they sure love to judge and cast stones.

 

[Hotsackage]

im definetly on the side of prolonging it if you can, but ive been prob the lowest you can get with mental illness, so i would definetly understand if someone chose that route

 

[Zzquilb458]

I'm curious what people on this forum think about this— whether or not suicide is a selfish act. Personally, I don't think so. I think it's more selfish to keep someone who is suffering alive for your own moral gratification.

Selfish is a neutral term to me. Even if it technically could be selfish, it's not ubiquitously immoral as many imply when they state this exact sentiment.

 

[badatparties]

Of course not, we live in a shit hole that is completely hostile to our spiritual health.

 

[i like apple juice!]

i'm only gonna speak on my situation, it's not my place to comment on other people. i think i'd be a little bit selfish for going through with it. i'd be putting my own relief above the happiness of others. but when people are inevitably upset with me over it, it's also a little selfish for them to value their own happiness above my relief. everyone would be a little selfish, i think that's okay. i don't think selfishness is inherently evil. at the end of it all, it's an unfortunate situation where we can't all win. i'm just gonna navigate it the best way i can.

 

[littlecutecorpse]

Off topic but is that Raggedy Ann(?) in your pfp? My best friend loves her.

yes!!! it is!!! i love raggedy ann a lottt

 

[doggo2355]

y

personally yes, I know it would affect several ppl in my life negatively and I'm rlly thinking only about my self and ending my own pain by CTB. Discounting the pain of others I would cause feels selfish. But that's just how I feel about my situation, I don't have the right to ascribe that judgment towards anybody else bc I don't know anyone else's situation but my own.

Yeah I totally agree, I feel the same. Besides the difficulty of finding the right method that is my main obstacle that I don't know if I'll ever overcome.

 

[Seneca65AD]

i'm only gonna speak on my situation, it's not my place to comment on other people. i think i'd be a little bit selfish for going through with it. i'd be putting my own relief above the happiness of others. but when people are inevitably upset with me over it, it's also a little selfish for them to value their own happiness above my relief. everyone would be a little selfish, i think that's okay. i don't think selfishness is inherently evil. at the end of it all, it's an unfortunate situation where we can't all win. i'm just gonna navigate it the best way i can.

I agree with the above. I have a wife and daughter and I don't want to cause them pain. That is the only thing that has kept me from CTBing. However, I do know they both draw a distinction between mental pain and physical pain. Physical pain as a CTB reason is generally more socially accepted than mental pain - so therefore the "selfish" label gets affixed to CTB due to mental pain.

Admittedly, I do get silently frustrated due to that differentiation, but I can't say anything. I can discuss a migraine and its pain with my wife but I feel like there is a wall when I try to discuss my mental struggles. Of course I may be imagining the wall due to my own issues surrounding mental health. I would never use the term "selfish" to describe someone who did CTB; pain is so personal that suicide could well be the only way out.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

It depends on the context. In some cases, yes, in others, not so much.

 

[bigwomanbigwoman123]

it really does depend. but ill never blame someone for it i think. nobody is morally perfect

 

[ThisIsYam]

Nope. You don't get to choose whether you come into this world and all the nonsense that comes with surviving in the first place or not. It's only fair if you were at least granted the choice to leave on your own accord.

 

[NaiveRealist]

In terms of its consequences, it seems that the bad that generally results from CTB—e.g., grieving loved ones, cost for society, etc—often, but not always, outweighs the good it brings—e.g., the person who CTBed no longer being in pain. However, people may have a right to autonomy over their own lives that can override consideration for the consequences of the act if the will of the individual is in tension with the greater good. So, is suicide selfish? Weighed by the good and the bad, I think the act itself is sometimes selfish. But that may be a very narrow way to view selfishness, as it completely ignores the state of mind of an individual, among other things.