Dangers of "legalizing" suicide

[azucaramargo]

And they don't just help anyone CTB. You have to meet all these requirements.

This one dude at Dignitas, though, they made it sound like he has another internal doctor who signs off on all the stuff, and
people are in and out in a few hours.

That doctor was getting some heat, though, so maybe it's not possible anymore.

 

[Severen]

This one dude at Dignitas, though, they made it sound like he has another internal doctor who signs off on all the stuff, and
people are in and out in a few hours.

That doctor was getting some heat, though, so maybe it's not possible anymore.

I remember reading, you have to suffer from this or that and they will help you CTB. But the "this or that" are health problems that will result in your death soon anyway. So basically, they will help people who are going to die soon anyway... That's fucked up.

 

[azucaramargo]

O

I remember reading, you have to suffer from this or that and they will help you CTB. But the "this or that" are health problems that will result in your death soon anyway. So basically, they will help people who are going to die soon anyway... That's fucked up.

Oh really? Well, yeah, that defeats the purpose. I know in the Netherlands, they make people jump through a lot of hoops. But, people have to be Dutch to use their system. I just don't think I have the courage to withstand the pain of ctb. I want to be dead a lot, but I just don't think I'll ever be brave enough to go through the pain.

 

[Janica333]

O

Oh really? Well, yeah, that defeats the purpose. I know in the Netherlands, they make people jump through a lot of hoops. But, people have to be Dutch to use their system. I just don't think I have the courage to withstand the pain of ctb. I want to be dead a lot, but I just don't think I'll ever be brave enough to go through the pain.

That's why Euthanasia books have published only the painless methods in witch they don't stay alive in much greater pain and disability.

 

[311]

A bit selfish of us if it turns into mass genocide. Just saying....

How is it genocide if you are choosing to die lmao. Anyone above 18 should be able to get barbituates and die in peace.

 

[Jodes]

How is it genocide if you are choosing to die lmao. Anyone above 18 should be able to get barbituates and die in peace.

I agree. Genocide is extreme, but one thing leads to another, leaders twist legislation more and more. It would be the perfect legal crack for a second Hitler to exploit

 

[311]

I agree. Genocide is extreme, but one thing leads to another, leaders twist legislation more and more. It would be the perfect legal crack for a second Hitler to exploit

Trump can't even get an asylum ban through the supreme court let alone a nazi euthanasia program lol.

 

[CuriousAboutThis]

As much as i would love to see assisted suicide for everyone, as a humanitarian idea, i really don't trust humanity not to abuse it for their own gain...

The true nature of humanity cruelty and kindness not borderline personality disorder borderline reality our species is way too contradictory we crest as we destroy think of all the creative destruction I agree with assisted suicide, euthanasia, and mercy killing in terms of terminal illness but you have to be very careful with mental illnesses and disabled but we are "human" carry the will, corrupt the will, exploit the will, or manipulate the will.

 

[Arak]

@thrw_a_way1221221 ,

'Scenario #1
Suicidal person tries to hang him/herself, but failed and is interrupted and discovered by a loved one. The loved one calls medical personnel, and law enforcement. They investigate the person and the claim, but after a brief interaction, they tell the loved one not to call them anymore and maybe just encourages the suicidal person to seek help (but never forcing him/her into an ambulance or psych ward against his/her will). Also, no litigation against law enforcement or medical personnel as they are obligated to respect one's free will and are protected by such a new law.'

What kind of people call the cops when a 'loved one' has tried to kill himself/herself ?
Americans ? Sorry, no offense but personally I think that's just bizarre. Is the ambulance not enough ? Do they want to lock up the individual in question ? Why not give him/her the death penalty ?

 

[Logic]

I can imagine it turning nasty after 50 years knowing humans. Kill old & disabled people, you name it

I can imagine actually anything. Do you have proove to support your claim? I agree with Dr. Benatar on this issue

I agree with Dr Bentar on this one.

"The second argument invoked by opponents of a legal right to die is the argument that such a right will be abused and that no legal safeguards can prevent that abuse. Thus, for example, it has been said that where written voluntary consent to euthanasia is a legal requirement, that consent has not always been obtained. Similarly, it has been said that euthanasia or assisted suicide are often not reported, even in jurisdictions in which reporting is obligatory.

The problem with that argument is that citing many examples of abuse of a legal right is not sufficient to justify withholding that right. If the likelihood of abuse were thought to be grounds for withholding a right, then much more than euthanasia would have to be banned. Driving, for example, would have to be prohibited on the grounds that this right is abused and that none of the safeguards we have against such abuse are completely effective. People drive faster than they should. They drive through red traffic lights and weave through traffic, and they drive cars that are not roadworthy. Some even drive without a license or while under the influence of alcohol. Moreover, the abuse of a legal right to drive often has fatal consequences, and thus, it is not unlike euthanasia in the severity of the outcome of the abuse. (And unlike the case of euthanasia, fatalities from car accidents often involve people who were in excellent health, which makes abuse of driving worse than abuse of euthanasia.) Few opponents of a legal right to die are prepared to accept the implication that driving should be banned. Nor is it a conclusion that should be accepted. There is no reason to withhold from some people a legal right to reasonable activity merely because other people will abuse that right. The appropriate response is regulation, imperfect though that may be.

The opponents of euthanasia and assisted suicide who cite the dangers of abuse in support of their view also fail to notice that abuse is possible even when euthanasia and assisted suicide are legally prohibited. It is naïve to think that covert forms of euthanasia and assisted suicide are not occurring in places where those practices are illegal. At least some of those instances would constitute abuse if a legal right to die existed. It is hard to say how much abuse occurs in such jurisdictions, but that is partly because where euthanasia and assisted suicide are prohibited, doctors will be even less likely to admit to participating in such practicesa.

Banning alcohol consumption, prostitution, gambling, and so forth, does not result in the elimination of those practices, in either abusive or non-abusive forms. Similarly, the choice is not between euthanasia and no euthanasia, with abuse occurring only in the former. Instead the choice is between euthanasia with or without regulation. Abuse will occur in any event, and thus, on the assumption that there is nothing wrong with euthanasia in itself, we may as well legalize and regulate it."

 

[sif]

We get a complete refresh of humans every ~110 years anyway dying really isn't as special or odd as people want to make out. If people want to act as if we don't have a right to die then that's fine but the simple fact is that we do. It's not even an argument or a debate, it's just a hope that we can convince people we were allowed to leave, before we leave. but for the same kind of logic I think that's why it's unlikely to ever be legal in the way we wish.

 

[Logic]

As much as i would love to see assisted suicide for everyone, as a humanitarian idea, i really don't trust humanity not to abuse it for their own gain...

Our suicide policy is not based on science. It's based on the monotheistic value life is always worth it and belongs to God. If our suicide policy was based on the science atleast we would be attempting to get it right. In many ways you guys make the same arguments Prohibitionist made of liquor weed etc

 

[RememberWhatUCameFor]

just because there is space for abuse this shouldnt mean it should be forbidden


eg should we forbid cars because people intentional (terrorattack in nice) or unintentionall kill people with it?


legalizing suicide has way more pro then cons

 

[sif]

just because there is space for abuse this shouldnt mean it should be forbidden


eg should we forbid cars because people intentional (terrorattack in nice) or unintentionall kill people with it?


legalizing suicide has way more pro then cons

This brings the point of decriminilisation vs legalistion

 

[Janica333]

@thrw_a_way1221221 ,

'Scenario #1
Suicidal person tries to hang him/herself, but failed and is interrupted and discovered by a loved one. The loved one calls medical personnel, and law enforcement. They investigate the person and the claim, but after a brief interaction, they tell the loved one not to call them anymore and maybe just encourages the suicidal person to seek help (but never forcing him/her into an ambulance or psych ward against his/her will). Also, no litigation against law enforcement or medical personnel as they are obligated to respect one's free will and are protected by such a new law.'

What kind of people call the cops when a 'loved one' has tried to kill himself/herself ?
Americans ? Sorry, no offense but personally I think that's just bizarre. Is the ambulance not enough ? Do they want to lock up the individual in question ? Why not give him/her the death penalty ?

In many countries in reality trying to commit suicide is a crime that a person can be locked up for even for the rest of their life (for old and terminally ill that have happened) in mental hospital which has no better condition than prison. Only way out is to lie or want to live.

 

[throwaway_2620]

In many countries in reality trying to commit suicide is a crime that a person can be locked up for even for the rest of their life in mental hospital which has no better condition than prison. Only way out is to lie or want to live.

It's fucked how suicidal people are treated. In my opinion, everyone (including everyone on this forum and myself) should have the right to either obtain N and meto or given a lethal N injection and peacefully die in their sleep.

 

[gingerplum]

It's fucked how suicidal people are treated. In my opinion, everyone (including everyone on this forum and myself) should have the right to either obtain N and meto or given a lethal N injection and peacefully die in their sleep.

I think this is too extreme a stance. Too many people would do something impulsively, like this 17 yr old who shot off her face because her boyfriend broke up with her: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...face-failed-suicide-gets-face-transplant.html

There would have to be age restrictions (with consideration for exceptions), multiple evals from different medical disciplines, an ethics committee, and an extensive waiting period (again, with possible exceptions).

Do I think anyone has the right to end their own life, for any reason? Essentially, yes, but with much caution and thoughtful consideration.

It's tantount to a waiting period for guns; there's a reason why you shouldn't go out and buy one when you're angry.

 

[Arak]

@gingerplum ,

That's giving power to the doctors, tot he state, to administer 'relief' to those they deem worthy.

I'm completely against that. In my not so humble opinion, everyone has the right to end his or her own life. That many people fuck up, act on impulse and do stupid things is something else. That's a matter of culture, upbringing, the society we live in and psychiatric pills.

 

[throwaway_2620]

I think this is too extreme a stance. Too many people would do something impulsively, like this 17 yr old who shot off her face because her boyfriend broke up with her: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...face-failed-suicide-gets-face-transplant.html
There would have to be age restrictions (with consideration for exceptions), multiple evals from different medical disciplines, an ethics committee, and an extensive waiting period (again, with possible exceptions).

Do I think anyone has the right to end their own life, for any reason? Essentially, yes, but with much caution and thoughtful consideration.

I respect your opinion, but like I said, that's why people should have the right to die peacefully in their sleep (because it's their choice and so they don't fuck up and end up permanently disfigured/disabled).

 

[gingerplum]

@gingerplum ,

That's giving power to the doctors, tot he state, to administer 'relief' to those they deem worthy.

I'm completely against that. In my not so humble opinion, everyone has the right to end his or her own life. That many people fuck up, act on impulse and do stupid things is something else. That's a matter of culture, upbringing, the society we live in and psychiatric pills.

Anyone who chooses to do so can take their own life. If you're talking about making Pentobarbital available to the public, there's no way to do that without regulation and oversight. I am not a fan of big government-- I lean towards Libertarianism-- but there is no other way to approach it.

Yes, it would be regulated by the state, but at least the terminally ill and the hopelessly depressed would have a chance at legal help, instead of hoping for the best with questionable methods or taking their chances on the dark web.

I'm talking about more options than are available now, not restrictions.

 

[gingerplum]

I respect your opinion, but like I said, that's why people should have the right to die peacefully in their sleep (because it's their choice and so they don't fuck up and end up permanently disfigured/disabled).

People do have the right to do this; suicide isn't illegal.

If you're talking about making suicide options like Pentobarbital available to the public, how would this be regulated? How would you obtain it, and from who?

 

[throwaway_2620]

Legally, I'm not 100% certain how you would legally obtain it (apart from fighting for the right to die) but (as far as I know), most people on SS know you could obtain it illegally (by buying N from A).

 

[gingerplum]

...people should have the right to die peacefully in their sleep (because it's their choice and so they don't fuck up and end up permanently disfigured/disabled).

I thought you were implying that Nembutal should be legally available to anyone that wants it; sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[throwaway_2620]

...people should have the right to die peacefully in their sleep (because it's their choice and so they don't fuck up and end up permanently disfigured/disabled).

I thought you were implying that Nembutal should be legally available to anyone that wants it; sorry if I misunderstood.

That's okay, gingerplum, it's all good.

 

[Arak]

Anyone who chooses to do so can take their own life. If you're talking about making Pentobarbital available to the public, there's no way to do that without regulation and oversight. I am not a fan of big government-- I lean towards Libertarianism-- but there is no other way to approach it.

Yes, it would be regulated by the state, but at least the terminally ill and the hopelessly depressed would have a chance at legal help, instead of hoping for the best with questionable methods or taking their chances on the dark web.

I'm talking about more options than are available now, not restrictions.

'Anyone who chooses to do so can take their own life' That's a bit easy to say. Not everyone has the stomach to wait out 6 hours of dying by SN (if it works), not everyone lives in the USA where it is so much easier to get a lot of stuff (sodium azide, guns). I can forget about SA or guns. Not everyone can do 'partial hanging'. There can be so many restrictions in the real world ... a young healthy person who has access to a place to jump from (>100 metres), can get a gun, sodium azide, a nice isolated location for full suspension hanging, who can dash past people trying to 'help' (cliffs Beachy Head), who can get and make an overdose of heroin to work ... may not understand what obstacles some people can face in the real world.

 

[gingerplum]

'Anyone who chooses to do so can take their own life' That's a bit easy to say. Not everyone has the stomach to wait out 6 hours of dying by SN (if it works), not everyone lives in the USA where it is so much easier to get a lot of stuff (sodium azide, guns). I can forget about SA or guns. Not everyone can do 'partial hanging'. There can be so many restrictions in the real world ... a young healthy person who has access to a place to jump from (>100 metres), can get a gun, sodium azide, a nice isolated location for full suspension hanging, who can dash past people trying to 'help' (cliffs Beachy Head), who can get and make an overdose of heroin to work ... may not understand what obstacles some people can face in the real world.

Fair enough. What's the solution?

 

[Arak]

People do have the right to do this; suicide isn't illegal.

If you're talking about making suicide options like Pentobarbital available to the public, how would this be regulated? How would you obtain it, and from who?

At some places it is illegal, and even in the USA it can get you locked up in a psychiatric ward.

There was a time when barbiturates were available on prescription. People used to be able to collect Nembutal sleeping tablets. There was even a time when access to opiates and otehr drugs was (almost?) free.

 

[Arak]

'solution' ? Individual freedom. The less freedom, the fewer options for situations like these. You need more of a 'lack of regulation', rather than regulation. Some people will do stupid things, I wonder if it's not a constant in the universe.

 

[Arak]

And as an example, someone in Poland asked a seller if they would ship sodium azide to other countries. The person in question got no response, same experience as mine.

 

[gingerplum]

There was a time when barbiturates were available on prescription. People used to be able to collect Nembutal sleeping tablets.

'solution' ? Individual freedom.

Walk me thu this. The solution you're advocating for is unlimited individual freedom and unresticted access to barbiturates?