Help CTB Enquiry-Someone being with me

[★†DaughterOfEve†★]

If someone is beside me when I ctb but they don't assist me with it in any way then are they an accessory?, can they be charged with being that or charged with manslaughter?

Btw ctb is legal & decriminalized where I live.

 

[Rena rossy]

In the book the Final exit there are some recommendations. If you want the complete book, I can send it to you too.

 

[Skyview]

If someone is beside me when I ctb but they don't assist me with it in any way then are they an accessory?, can they be charged with being that or charged with manslaughter?

Btw ctb is legal & decriminalized where I live.

You say it's legal and decriminalized for you , you best seek advice as to wether your partner would be charged , hard for that person to deny any involvement and if you suddenly raise from the dead saying it's all cool , I think you would probably freak everyone out and send them running down the street

 

[★†DaughterOfEve†★]

In the book the Final exit there are some recommendations. If you want the complete book, I can send it to you too.

Ok yes thank you I would very much appreciate it. Is that the March edition or the the November one?

You say it's legal and decriminalized for you , you best seek advice as to wether your partner would be charged , hard for that person to deny any involvement and if you suddenly raise from the dead saying it's all cool , I think you would probably freak everyone out and send them running down the street

Yes and also its only assisted suicide that is still illegal. So if they were actively helping me but if they are just beside me for company then is that not different?. Where do i seek advice from? I've tried looking online there isant anything clear on it, that's why I posted this thread. Yes I know it would be hard for them to deny involvement, is this in response to Rena Rossy's comment? I don't think I'm going to rise from the dead but thanks for your sense of humour.

 

[Rena rossy]

Ok yes thank you I would very much appreciate it. Is that the March edition or the the November one?

Well, the last edition of this book was published in 2010. The one that is published every couple of months is the PPH, but I think I saw some links here.

 

[dumdumdedum]

do not do this. the potential legal ramifications for your friend after you ctb are vast, possibly torturous.

 

[★†DaughterOfEve†★]

do not do this. the potential legal ramifications for your friend after you ctb are vast, possibly torturous.

Ok, what potential legal ramifications? I just can't be on my own :( :,(

 

[jgm63]

do not do this. the potential legal ramifications for your friend after you ctb are vast, possibly torturous.

Do you know of any previous cases, or are you making a "best guess" assumption ?
I'm not doubting your reply, I would just like to know more.....

 

[Skyview]

Ok yes thank you I would very much appreciate it. Is that the March edition or the the November one?


Yes and also its only assisted suicide that is still illegal. So if they were actively helping me but if they are just beside me for company then is that not different?. Where do i seek advice from? I've tried looking online there isant anything clear on it, that's why I posted this thread. Yes I know it would be hard for them to deny involvement, is this in response to Rena Rossy's comment? I don't think I'm going to rise from the dead but thanks for your sense of humour.

Each country has it's own laws as you know , difficult situation ,if you were to get a letter notarized that you state the friend has no involvement , you leave yourself open for intervention and probably the psych ward ! You write the letter yourself which obviously means forensics will get involved , is it your handwriting ?

 

[dumdumdedum]

Ok, what potential legal ramifications? I just can't be on my own :( :,(

the legal ramifications in your state or country, which you need a certified professional (a lawyer, or LEO) to assess. no one else can guesstimate that for you.

i empathize with your situation. but that does not preclude the law.

 

[★†DaughterOfEve†★]

Each country has it's own laws as you know , difficult situation ,if you were to get a letter notarized that you state the friend has no involvement , you leave yourself open for intervention and probably the psych ward ! You write the letter yourself which obviously means forensics will get involved , is it your handwriting ?

Yes I know each country has its own laws. A letter notarized? The letter is written by me, yes it's my handwriting. If im dead how will I be open for intervention and psych ward?

 

[SnowStroller]

@★†DaughterOfEve†★,

It depends on your country. But in the handful of years I've read up on suicide, I recall learning about instances where individuals were present as spectators for a suicide (without making an effort to prevent it). In especially pro-life countries like the USA, they typically get charged with some form of criminal penalty.
It could lead to a sticky legal situation that could follow the surviving party for months/years. If you want to keep everyone safe I would advise against it.

 

[★†DaughterOfEve†★]

the legal ramifications in your state or country, which you need a certified professional (a lawyer, or LEO) to assess. no one else can guesstimate that for you.

i empathize with your situation. but that does not preclude the law.

In Ireland where I live, suicide is legal & dicriminalised. Assisted suicide isan't. Assisting would be aiding, abetting etc. It doesn't mention anything about just being with the person watching. Thank you for your empathy.

@★†DaughterOfEve†★,

It depends on your country. But in the handful of years I've read up on suicide, I recall learning about some instances where individuals who were present for a suicide without making an effort to prevent it (in especially pro-life countries like the USA) get charged with some form criminal penalty.
It could lead to a sticky legal situation that could follow the surviving party for months/years. If you want to keep everyone safe I would advise against it.

Ok but I just can't be on my own. I wouldn't be able for that. I mean they can travel abroad with me to an end of life clinic. There are no legal problems there. This is so unfair. It really is. :( :,( I just can't be on my own.

 

[SnowStroller]

In Ireland where I live, suicide is legal & dicriminalised. Assisted suicide isan't. Assisting would be aiding, abetting etc. It doesn't mention anything about just being with the person watching. Thank you for your empathy.

In some legal contexts just being present as a aware bystander constitutes a form of aiding/abetting. In the cases I remember, the person would only be legally absolved if they tried to stop you

 

[jgm63]

It may be wise to consult a solicitor/lawyer in your region.
Perhaps just tell them that you have a terminal illness.

 

[Carina]

Like 20 years ago a friend asked if she wanted to kill herself, if I would basically "stand guard" so she couldn't be rescued. I said yes (it never came to that), she was surprised I wasn't concerned with legal things (USA), I was surprised she thought I'd be alive for it to apply.

Because I knew, there was no chance I could just watch a friend die, without holding her hand, trying to make her comfortable, or do anything at that point for her. And then, even if she had written a note, it wouldn't have mattered.


Now you mentioned that suicide is legal, assisted isn't, but doesn't mention being there watching. That could be a huge grey area, or not, but something you'll probably want to figure out. Depending, some say that "failure to prevent" is the same as "assisting".

 

[SnowStroller]

In Ireland where I live, suicide is legal & dicriminalised. Assisted suicide isan't. Assisting would be aiding, abetting etc. It doesn't mention anything about just being with the person watching. Thank you for your empathy.


Ok but I just can't be on my own. I wouldn't be able for that. I mean they can travel abroad with me to an end of life clinic. There are no legal problems there. This is so unfair. It really is. :( :,( I just can't be on my own.

I understand your fear of dying alone. We all share that fear. Death is the loneliest thing there is, and we all have to die eventually.
I know you are in tremendous pain, but you need to try your best to pull through and make sure you play your cards right. If you can apply for a euthanasia group, then only in that context would you definitely be legally clear for an audience. If you are going DIY, you can be with your friend up until the very last moment, but you will have to physically separate from them (and give them a plausible alibi) before actually CTB.
There's no reason for them to be there when you're already dead and the cops arrive.
Your death (from the point of closing your eyes and losing consciousness) will be lonely no matter what. You have to psychologically understand that or you'll keep getting held back by SI

 

[★†DaughterOfEve†★]

I understand your fear of dying alone. We all share that fear. Death is the loneliest thing there is, and we all have to die eventually.
I know you are in tremendous pain, but you need to try your best to pull through and make sure you play your cards right. If you can apply for a euthanasia group, then only in that context would you definitely be legally clear for an audience. If you are going DIY, you can be with your friend up until the very last moment, but you will have to physically separate from them (and give them a plausible alibi) before actually CTB.
There's no reason for them to be there when you're already dead and the cops arrive.
Your death (from the point of closing your eyes and losing consciousness) will be lonely no matter what. You have to psychologically understand that or you'll keep getting held back by SI

This is for them being with me when I ctb.

 

[Farmmaa]

Do not put anyone in this position.
Forget the legal ramifications for a moment and think about the tremendous psychological and emotional damage you are going to do to them. You will be gone but they have to live with that for the rest of their lives.
Extremely selfish.

As for the legal end of things... people can be charged with failure to seek medical attention for someone who is critically injured, as well as failure to prevent the death.
They can also be sued in a civil case for causation of death.

If you want to CTB... don't do it until you can do it alone.

 

[Quarky00]

In Ireland where I live, suicide is legal & dicriminalised. Assisted suicide isan't. Assisting would be aiding, abetting etc. It doesn't mention anything about just being with the person watching.

Legally speaking aiding & abetting is also providing comfort and relief. If one were to comfort you during your last moments, even passively, that could be considered as assisting. It is quite reasonable to claim that without that comfort you may not have gone through that process fully. Therefore there is a suspicion of assisted suicide.

Things can get messy. Even if you sign a notarized letter, verified by lawyer & impartial witness, from a law enforcement perspective when there's a body and a person next to it - foul play must be investigated. Maybe your friend influenced you etc. It really depends on the jurisdiction, and the judgment of local investigators and their legal advisor.

In places where assisted suicide is legal the euthanasia process is lengthy and heavily regulated/verified.

In progressive jurisdictions, where suicide may be legal while assisted suicide is not, and if precautions were made, your friend probably wouldn't be prosecuted. But they would be investigated and/or be under suspicion. That could be brief and mild, or serious and lengthy, depending on the local officers. This may be a problem.

 

[angie]

Legally speaking aiding & abetting is also providing comfort and relief. If one were to comfort you during your last moments, even passively, that could be considered as assisting. It is quite reasonable to claim that without that comfort you may not have gone through that process fully. Therefore there is a suspicion of assisted suicide.

Things can get messy. Even if you sign a notarized letter, verified by lawyer & impartial witness, from a law enforcement perspective when there's a body and a person next to it - foul play must be investigated. Maybe your friend influenced you etc. It really depends on the jurisdiction, and the judgment of local investigators and their legal advisor.

In places where assisted suicide is legal the euthanasia process is lengthy and heavily regulated/verified.

In progressive jurisdictions, where suicide may be legal while assisted suicide is not, and if precautions were made, your friend probably wouldn't be prosecuted. But they would be investigated and/or be under suspicion. That could be brief and mild, or serious and lengthy, depending on the local officers. This may be a problem.

If someone was just sitting with you while you take the concoctions for suicide . not helping or encouraging you . can they be in trouble for not stopping you i wonder . this is in the uk by the way . anyone know

 

[jgm63]

If someone was just sitting with you while you take the concoctions for suicide . not helping or encouraging you . can they be in trouble for not stopping you i wonder . this is in the uk by the way . anyone know

@angie That's exactly the question that was asked on this thread....
The general answer seems to be that it is not a good idea, and the person could get into trouble.

I do feel as though age and circumstances might be taken into account in some cases...
e.g. If it were an elderly couple, and one partner had a terminal illness, then perhaps it might be considered "not in the public interest" to bring any type of prosecution.

However, that is purely a guess, so do *not* rely on that.
You would need to seek legal advice to get a proper answer.

I suppose there could be other situations....

for example : If someone was with someone when they CTB, and then they left the property and went out for a few hours.
There might not be any proof of the exact time of death, and the exact time that the person left the property, so there might not be any proof of the person being there when the other person CTB.

Alternatively, when the two people involved live together, then it is presumably harder to prove what happened, because the person who CTB might have been in bed, while the other person might have been downstairs watching television and might not have been aware of what was happening.

But again, you should seek legal advice. I am in no position to offer advice....
People could get into trouble in these types of situations, so you should consider things very carefully.....

 

[Quarky00]

If someone was just sitting with you while you take the concoctions for suicide . not helping or encouraging you . can they be in trouble for not stopping you i wonder . this is in the uk by the way

Yes, they would probably be in trouble.

In the UK prosecution guidelines recommend avoiding charges if victim had clear decision and suspect was wholly motivated by compassion, but that is not followed. Well known case of a family member charged after she escorted her terminally ill husband to Diginitas.

Alternatively, when the two people involved live together, then it is presumably harder to prove what happened, because the person who CTB might have been in bed, while the other person might have been downstairs watching television and might not have been aware of what was happening.

Maybe, if a person can honestly and truthfully say they were not aware, and they will be checked for that.

Prosecutors consider evidence (proof) as part of charges. Before that officers look at whether or not to open investigation, they don't need proof, but suspicious circumstances. Furthermore, a coroner must open an inquest if death was unnatural, sudden or suicide (UK).

There are cases where officials showed compassion, but overall it's quite a big risk for the survivor.

 

[Roger]

If someone is beside me when I ctb but they don't assist me with it in any way then are they an accessory?, can they be charged with being that or charged with manslaughter?

Btw ctb is legal & decriminalized where I live.

To answer that, with any degree of authority, would require a knowledge of the law in your country. Given that Ireland is within the comity of Common Law nations, the situation is even less precise, as a knowledge of precedent is also necessary.

Here in UK "aiding and abetting" is not the terminology used - it's an offence to "encourage or assist" which may or may not amount to the same thing. As a previous poster has pointed out, Crown Prosecution Service guidelines have been introduced in recent years which recommend no charge in cases which appear to be acts of compassion.

Ireland has a similar rate of suicide than UK, but the absolute number is still quite low, at about 390 pa compared to 6000 pa so there is less likely to be a reliable body of case law upon which you could rely. How many cases of Irish prosecutions for assisting a suicide can you remember ?

In any event, I foresee the officially measured suicide rate in UK soaring in the next year or so, as the reported rate will be year-on-year distorted by the recent change in standards of proof of suicide, from criminal (beyond reasonable doubt) to civil (balance of probabilities) takes effect.

I don't think you'll get any reliable answer to your question from this forum, and you'll need to research closer to home.

 

[★†DaughterOfEve†★]

If Suicide is legal in my country, Will my parents be in trouble for just knowing I'm planning to end my life & not doing anything to stop me? (They have been trying to stop me though in their own way)

 

[jgm63]

I don't categorically know the answer.

I would not have thought that your parents would get into trouble for that, but that's just my "best guess".
Hopefully somebody with more knowledge can offer some insight....

However, it might be better if your parents did *not* claim to know that you were planning to CTB if questioned.

 

[★†DaughterOfEve†★]

Yes I know you are not certain, hopefully somebody else will know for sure. We already discussed this on discord and I told you that I don't know if I can get her to do that. :(

 

[jgm63]

Yes I know you are not certain, hopefully somebody else will know for sure. We already discussed this on discord and I told you that I don't know if I can get her to do that. :(

I was mainly replying to help you "bump" the thread a bit, so it "moves up the list" and other people see it and hopefully reply.....

 

[★†DaughterOfEve†★]

Oh right ok thank you. I would like to ask her to not mention that she knew I was planning to ctb but im worried it might only ruin my chances of being able to do it. It seems as if they have finally accepted my decision. I hope they have.

 

[jgm63]

You might have been better off making a new thread b.t.w. b/c your latest question is a variation on the original one asked, and people may not scroll down and read the latest post....