★†DaughterOfEve†★
Another pharma destroyed life :(
- Nov 24, 2019
- 126
Oh right ok then. Anyone who is following the thread though will recieve a notification that a new comment has been posted.
Oh right ok then. Anyone who is following the thread though will recieve a notification that a new comment has been posted.
Quarky00
Enlightened
- Dec 17, 2019
- 1,956
People are not prosecuted just for knowing someone is ending their life . You also said they have tried to stop you in the past . And I'm sure it's not something they support, encourage, or assist .
If they knew of details of ctb ; were aware it was imminent and certain ; knew about the time , place , method ; were present and could have stopped ; etc – they may be questioned . Local LE decide which avenue to pursue (if at all) . It's up to their discretion . And they mostly show compassion towards the grieving family . If they were aware of everything about your planned ctb (without providing assistance) , though prosecution is somewhat possible , it is not very common , generally speaking . I don't know if that's relevant to you , and I do not fully understand the situation . Just being aware of some suicidal ideation is not enough to prosecute or investigate :)
If they knew of details of ctb ; were aware it was imminent and certain ; knew about the time , place , method ; were present and could have stopped ; etc – they may be questioned . Local LE decide which avenue to pursue (if at all) . It's up to their discretion . And they mostly show compassion towards the grieving family . If they were aware of everything about your planned ctb (without providing assistance) , though prosecution is somewhat possible , it is not very common , generally speaking . I don't know if that's relevant to you , and I do not fully understand the situation . Just being aware of some suicidal ideation is not enough to prosecute or investigate :)
★†DaughterOfEve†★
Another pharma destroyed life :(
- Nov 24, 2019
- 126
Ok, that is good that they won't be in trouble for knowing I want to end my life. No they don't support my decision, encourage it nor will they assist me. When I say they have tried to stop me I mean they have been trying to get me help but there is no help for me. Im in far too much pain. They don't know exactly when I plan to ctb but they know the method which is i want to order N and you said they could be prosecuted for that or is that only if they were present? :-/
Well I guess @Quarky00 is saying that the more they know all the details, then the more it might be a possibility that they would come under questioning. In general, it seems unlikely that there would be an issue, but you can never say never, it all depends on the specific circumstances and every case is different. But based upon what you've described for your situation, it would seem unlikely that there would be an issue.... But I'm no legal expert.
@Quarky00 : Could her parents be prosecuted for knowing the method she plans to use ? (would seem unlikely to me). Also, do you have quite a good legal knowledge specifically, or just a general sense for these things ?
Quarky00
Enlightened
- Dec 17, 2019
- 1,956
Probably not. They need to know the specifics – when are you buying it, how it works, did you receive it, how and when you're using it, etc.
If I heard someone wishes to hang themselves sometime in the future with a rope – I'm fine. If they told me about the technique and its effects and I saw some rope in their drawer, I was aware this is serious, I may be questioned (not prosecuted). If I have seen the noose beforehand, I will be questioned. :)
I've read the laws, case reports, guidelines, court cases and inquests in several countries. It's complicated and It was rather exhausting. Most countries have laws about assisted suicide, but those are for clear cut cases. Otherwise things are blurry. Many times it's more about the practice and culture than the law. "Duty to help" rarely enforced and rather strict. I'm not a lawyer. And I'm not familiar with Irish law, though it should be similar, I've seen nothing special there, and generally speaking Ireland is more tolerant than other countries.
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No. They could not be prosecuted for that.
Only if present, helped, or knew the specifics (saw bottle; knew time-date-place).
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Soul
gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
- Apr 12, 2019
- 4,704
I wonder if a charge of neglect could be considered, since we're talking about DoE's parents. She's of adult age, but if she's formally under their care or something ... ?
Quarky00
Enlightened
- Dec 17, 2019
- 1,956
@Soul , "Duty to help" rarely enforced and rather strict , it requires real negligence :)
Criminal negligence (rather than civil) requires a lot.. It's about serious culpability.. AFAIK
Criminal negligence (rather than civil) requires a lot.. It's about serious culpability.. AFAIK
Soul
gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
- Apr 12, 2019
- 4,704
Just checking! I was thinking of 'caregiver neglect' rather than negligence, but maybe it's just a difference in terminology. If her parents are legally appointed caregivers they might be considered responsible for intervening. I hope not, but better check now than later.
@★†DaughterOfEve†★ : From the various responses above, it seems like it should be okay, and your parents would not be in trouble, which is what we thought, but it's good that people have offered some more insight into it to help improve confidence levels.....
But always remember that we are giving our views and opinions, to the best of our knowledge. None of us are in a position to give 100% guarantees, but I'm sure you understand that already.
So finally, you still have to take responsibility for your choices, and if things somehow turned out in unexpected ways, you would not be able to turn around and "blame" us. So you still have the final responsibility to evaluate things for yourself and make your own decisions. I'm sure you understand that already. However, we have tried to give our views as best we can.....
But always remember that we are giving our views and opinions, to the best of our knowledge. None of us are in a position to give 100% guarantees, but I'm sure you understand that already.
So finally, you still have to take responsibility for your choices, and if things somehow turned out in unexpected ways, you would not be able to turn around and "blame" us. So you still have the final responsibility to evaluate things for yourself and make your own decisions. I'm sure you understand that already. However, we have tried to give our views as best we can.....
Quarky00
Enlightened
- Dec 17, 2019
- 1,956
@Soul , Just answering ;) Question in place, sorry if answered in a cold manner ..
Broadly speaking duty of care/help is a subtype of negligence . We mostly hear/read about people suing each other . In the criminal path government pursue investigation and prosecution fully . It is mostly used for real abusive care , strong disregard for others well being , etc . You need real culpability, intention, recklessness . The specific types of negligence , like malpractice , include specific criteria . ( hard to address it all , can't express an opinion about a situation , just giving general framework )
Broadly speaking duty of care/help is a subtype of negligence . We mostly hear/read about people suing each other . In the criminal path government pursue investigation and prosecution fully . It is mostly used for real abusive care , strong disregard for others well being , etc . You need real culpability, intention, recklessness . The specific types of negligence , like malpractice , include specific criteria . ( hard to address it all , can't express an opinion about a situation , just giving general framework )
BPD Barbie
Visionary
- Dec 1, 2019
- 2,361
Even if there are no concrete previous cases, I wouldn't want to risk those implications for your friend tbh. While it's such a nice and comforting thought and idea to have someone with you, proving they had no hand in it while they are right there with you is incredibly tough.
Thanks.... The discussion has slightly shifted onto what the implications might be for her parents (see the last 5 or 6 posts), although it may have been better to do a separate thread, so sorry for confusion. But your statement is valid regarding the friends situation.
This post has some other thoughts I had on the "friend" (or partner, etc) situation b.t.w. :
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/ctb-enquiry-someone-being-with-me.28655/post-518509
★†DaughterOfEve†★
Another pharma destroyed life :(
- Nov 24, 2019
- 126
Based on the information given I am extremely confident your parents would not be charged. As for the friend, I agree with earlier posters saying it'd likely be at your local district attorneys discretion.
If I was in your position and needed a supporter I would make it incredibly clear through multiple suicide notes and other actions that this was a premeditated independent choice. I would not mention the friend planning to be there with you at all. Imo it decreases legal risk for the friend. If law enforcement learns she was present under these circumstances the outcome should be similar to if you wrote the letter acknowledging her presence while emphasizing her passive role.
I admire your friends and strongly believe in her right to choose to be there in a compassionate way for you. She is offering a pinnacle act of unselfishness. We on this board don't know the individual makeup of this person or your relationship with them. Thus impossible to predict how it will affect her. She could easily experience trauma by not being there in your last moment when you desperately wanted it. Being there with you could produce the same outcome. Or the opposite
If I was in your position and needed a supporter I would make it incredibly clear through multiple suicide notes and other actions that this was a premeditated independent choice. I would not mention the friend planning to be there with you at all. Imo it decreases legal risk for the friend. If law enforcement learns she was present under these circumstances the outcome should be similar to if you wrote the letter acknowledging her presence while emphasizing her passive role.
I admire your friends and strongly believe in her right to choose to be there in a compassionate way for you. She is offering a pinnacle act of unselfishness. We on this board don't know the individual makeup of this person or your relationship with them. Thus impossible to predict how it will affect her. She could easily experience trauma by not being there in your last moment when you desperately wanted it. Being there with you could produce the same outcome. Or the opposite
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