Method Carbon monoxide megathread

[Arak]

So there is really no information about the dispersion of the CO gas in the room ?

I'd imagine it would sink to the bottom of the room mostly since it's heavier than oxygen. I think the 'just mix h2so4 and formic acid' (and similar )can be risky. Imagine a scenerio when you want to die on your bed (off the floor). You don't want to survive and don't want to be knocked out by the gas while you're mixing it.

 

[HannibalLector]

So there is really no information about the dispersion of the CO gas in the room ?

I'd imagine it would sink to the bottom of the room mostly since it's heavier than oxygen. I think the 'just mix h2so4 and formic acid' (and similar )can be risky. Imagine a scenerio when you want to die on your bed (off the floor). You don't want to survive and don't want to be knocked out by the gas while you're mixing it.

This is a common assumption but its inaccurate. Carbon monoxide is in fact lighter then air.

 

[HannibalLector]

I have seen surprising posts here about the density of air and carbon monoxide.

One user accounts survival based on the inaccurate assumption.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/failed-charcoal-in-bathroom.6319/#post-104832

Another post claims "Very little, paint on the ceeiling..." is needed when seal room based on the inaccurate assumption.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/failed-charcoal-in-bathroom.6319/#post-104975


For this reason i will make a clarification:

"Air has a molecular weight of
28.966. Gases with molecular
weights less than 28.966 are lighter
than air. Gases with a weight
higher than 28.866 are heavier
than air. Air is made up of 78%
Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen -
Nitrogen has a weight of 28.013
while Carbon Monoxide (CO) has a
weight of 28.011. CO mixes with
Air as their weights are
approximately the same."

(common mistake is that people tend to mix up air with O2)

http://mtidealer.stratumsites.com/images//COAlarmInstallationHeight.pdf

 

[Arak]

@HannibalLector ,

CO is lower in weight than oxygen. I wonder if it will displace oxygen, and in that sense be higher in concentration at the ceiling ? That's odd, because I recall learning that it's heavier than air or oxygen. It would indeed be odd to think it wouldn't mix with air since 'air' is a mixture of gasses.

I still wonder what would happen if you just mix a significant quantity of formic acid with sulphuric acid in a pan or bucket, as in the practical reaction (slow, explosive?) and distribution in the air in the room. Not something you'd want to mess with. We're talking about a couple of litres here ... it's really nasty to survive that with brain damage.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

Its as simple as this, do the method in a small enclosed, airtight area then it wont matter if its lighter or heavier. People have succeded with the method which means it works. The problem i see with people failing is they are trying to be too smart and trying to reinvent a method that already works then spen time arguing on the threads about who is right. I just dont get it.

 

[Arak]

@Shewaitsforme , it's a practical matter. I had a certain room in mind, while being small it's not a tent or a small car. Tents ? I don't have one, not my thing and I would have to study the practical issues. I don't have a small car either ... Not saying I couldn't get one, but ...

People succeed all the time. They also fail all the time.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

@Shewaitsforme , it's a practical matter. I had a certain room in mind, while being small it's not a tent or a small car. Tents ? I don't have one, not my thing and I would have to study the practical issues. I don't have a small car either ... Not saying I couldn't get one, but ...

People succeed all the time. They also fail all the time.

Aslong as its as airtight as possible you should be fine.

 

[HannibalLector]

Its as simple as this, do the method in a small enclosed, airtight area then it wont matter if its lighter or heavier. People have succeded with the method which means it works. The problem i see with people failing is they are trying to be too smart and trying to reinvent a method that already works then spen time arguing on the threads about who is right. I just dont get it.

Spreading false information could endanger others. Alarming information like use CO method without properly seal roof. If someone act on such false information they could end up with brain damage.

 

[Joannf]

I can see this is not plausible so far... so I will propose a different method. You want 10000 ppm, right ? 1000 will not do you a lot of harm,so we can experiment with that, correct ? So what we do, we burn 10% of the briqs we will use for the end game, and we use the 999 20 Eurodollar meter... if that produces enough CO to bring the cheap CO meter up to 999, bingo. If not, you will still have a good measure you can extrapolate.

I have seen surprising posts here about the density of air and carbon monoxide.

One user accounts survival based on the inaccurate assumption.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/failed-charcoal-in-bathroom.6319/#post-104832

Another post claims "Very little, paint on the ceeiling..." is needed when seal room based on the inaccurate assumption.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/failed-charcoal-in-bathroom.6319/#post-104975


For this reason i will make a clarification:

"Air has a molecular weight of
28.966. Gases with molecular
weights less than 28.966 are lighter
than air. Gases with a weight
higher than 28.866 are heavier
than air. Air is made up of 78%
Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen -
Nitrogen has a weight of 28.013
while Carbon Monoxide (CO) has a
weight of 28.011. CO mixes with
Air as their weights are
approximately the same."

(common mistake is that people tend to mix up air with O2)

http://mtidealer.stratumsites.com/images//COAlarmInstallationHeight.pdf

That was interesting. As formic acid slowly degrades into CO and water, what would you say where the water would accumulate, on top or bottom ? The gallon container I got from storage today hissed and popped a bit when I opened it... escaping CO no doubt though not much - so I thought I might try and siphon of some of the accumulated water before use.

 

[Joannf]

@HannibalLector ,

CO is lower in weight than oxygen. I wonder if it will displace oxygen, and in that sense be higher in concentration at the ceiling ? That's odd, because I recall learning that it's heavier than air or oxygen. It would indeed be odd to think it wouldn't mix with air since 'air' is a mixture of gasses.

I still wonder what would happen if you just mix a significant quantity of formic acid with sulphuric acid in a pan or bucket, as in the practical reaction (slow, explosive?) and distribution in the air in the room. Not something you'd want to mess with. We're talking about a couple of litres here ... it's really nasty to survive that with brain damage.

Ventilate, row with a towel or your arms (a small ventilator might do but it could theoretically spark an explosion) - as to the acids I checked my Formic today and it gives off a significant amount of acid fumes. The mix (I tested it with one litre each Formic and Sulfuric) will warm up and then exude the CO... the only problem really is the acid gas, you need to take care of that... it will wreak havoc on your throat, trachea and lungs even while the CO takes hold. Tip : you filter it either by passing it through water (tiny bubbles preferred) or through active coal (charcoal) filters. You can experiment with what you proposed while wearing a cheap industrial gas mask with a plain coal filter. You might want to invest in a mask that also covers your eyes...

 

[Shewaitsforme]

Spreading false information could endanger others. Alarming information like use CO method without properly seal roof. If someone act on such false information they could end up with brain damage.

Which is why i urge people do do some research outside if this forum and not just take the word of people on here.

 

[Joannf]

Overthinking never leads to any success, man. Just ask yourself, will you pass a 1000-posts mark on forum without actually trying *any* of the methods?

Check this mfucker out

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-hyun_(singer)

"Jonghyun rented an apartment in Cheongdam-dong, Gangnam District in southeastern Seoul for two days. He checked in at 12:00 PM KST on December 18, 2017.
Jonghyun was found unconscious in his apartment by the police and rescue workers at around 6:10 PM"


It took him less than six hours to close the deal with death while texting. Charcoal in apartment, simple as that. Had he started reading about molecular weight of oxygen and CO, he'd never had succeeded. :/

And you're a veteran, so you should know ;)

 

[Deivis]

And you're a veteran, so you should know ;)

Touche! I'm on my way, but mark my words, I'll never go past 200 :) So help me God // Devil !

 

[Joannf]

Touche! I'm on my way, but mark my words, I'll never go past 200 :) So help me God // Devil !

;))

 

[Arak]

Ventilate, row with a towel or your arms (a small ventilator might do but it could theoretically spark an explosion) - as to the acids I checked my Formic today and it gives off a significant amount of acid fumes. The mix (I tested it with one litre each Formic and Sulfuric) will warm up and then exude the CO... the only problem really is the acid gas, you need to take care of that... it will wreak havoc on your throat, trachea and lungs even while the CO takes hold. Tip : you filter it either by passing it through water (tiny bubbles preferred) or through active coal (charcoal) filters. You can experiment with what you proposed while wearing a cheap industrial gas mask with a plain coal filter. You might want to invest in a mask that also covers your eyes...

OK, so it's not that simple. As far as the 'rowing' is concerned, you don't want to do that, then pass out and survive. And the fumes ...
I have almost no background in chemistry (a little decades ago), and I'd have to get that answer on this forum or elsewhere.

 

[Arak]

If someone knows of a practical way to construct or purchase a device for this purpose, please let me know.

My background in physics, chemistry, constructing devices is very limited.

 

[Stryxmain]

If someone knows of a practical way to construct or purchase a device for this purpose, please let me know.

My background in physics, chemistry, constructing devices is very limited.

Get a portable gas generator, put a load on it using a 120v heater and run it for 2 hours in a enclosed space before going in. Let it run when you go in.

 

[Arak]

I'm not sure it needs to be heated ... I'm actually not familair with either device, I'd guess your're from the USA.

 

[weedoge]

I'd like to add some information I've recently found out.

First of all, people who have been curious about how jonghyun died with only one or two briquettes in a frying pan. Unfortunately I lost the source now, but believe there's a high likelihood he was using a lit yeontan and simply standing it on the frying pan. A yeontan is a large charcoal briquette used in asia which generally burns for a day, it has columns drilled throughout.

I'm curious and will be doing some research on suiciding with these, unfortunately it's a primarily asian thing so if anyone who is able to translate wants to work with me on this, please pm me and I'll work on getting some studies/info to you. Thanks.


Secondly was just some generic information on the production of CO and circumstances that increase the production of CO greatly.
When the end of a flame impinges on metal, the CO production is greatly increase (ie, when you place a metal pan onto a hob, even though it's still minuscule the CO production increases from basically zero to a notable quantity. Could this make it beneficial to use a metal grate or something similar above the flames when attempting this method? Perhaps some tests may be worthwhile
"Re-burn is the most deadly situation and is typically what contributes to the few bonafide CO fatalities that do occur. Re-burn happens when the flue does not work properly, is blocked or disconnected, or is being back-drafted by some other force like an attic or exhaust fan, or an open window during a windy day."

Reburn is when air that has already been burned by a flame is reburned, CO production massively increases as oxygen is longer being burned into carbon dioxide much less, and carbon dioxide already present in the air starts burning into carbon monoxide. This might answer some questions many of us have about ctb with a simple generator, gas appliance, gas lamps etc etc, from my understanding anything will work in a completely sealed area and it's just a matter of numbers and working out how much CO you can expect to be produced from small gas appliances and how many you may need. Once this testing is done with a few devices I think we could have a much more convenient CO method documented. I'll take a look at buying a cheap CO meter and see what I can do for you guys.

 

[weedoge]

Get a portable gas generator, put a load on it using a 120v heater and run it for 2 hours in a enclosed space before going in. Let it run when you go in.

Hi, I'm curious if you have any background knowledge in how fast these generators burn through air or where to find this information? This is vital info that nobody seems to have consolidated and could help many of us CTB in a much safer/controlled way (rather than risking getting burned a crisp with charcoal, even though I still like that method)

 

[BlackpillAsshat]

How sure and peaceful is the charcoal method, honestly? The PPH brings barely any information about it, focusing more on the generator that I could never make.

Can't it produce CO2 instead of CO, making it a horrible death?

 

[Didymus]

I'd like to add some information I've recently found out.

... he was using a lit yeontan ... A yeontan is a large charcoal briquette used in asia which generally burns for a day, it has columns drilled throughout.

I was looking for yeontan on google images and found something completely different :)

 

[nohoper]

How sure and peaceful is the charcoal method, honestly? The PPH brings barely any information about it, focusing more on the generator that I could never make.

Can't it produce CO2 instead of CO, making it a horrible death?

You should read this thread on 8chan which will explain how it all works https://8ch.net/suicide/res/36746.html

 

[weedoge]

I was looking for yeontan on google images and found something completely different :)

lol yes, it makes me wonder if it's a tactic to steer people away from the real thing. Or it's just a cute name for a cute puppy :p

 

[weedoge]

How sure and peaceful is the charcoal method, honestly? The PPH brings barely any information about it, focusing more on the generator that I could never make.

Can't it produce CO2 instead of CO, making it a horrible death?

If you were producing CO2 the chances are nothing would happen, considering you actually die quickly from just 1% volume of CO, but 1% volume of CO2 does nothing because it's not toxic. If you managed to create an atmosphere full of CO2 then you'd feel it and immediately leave, it's impossible to ignore the reflex. Nice name btw

 

[HannibalLector]

Hi, I'm curious if you have any background knowledge in how fast these generators burn through air or where to find this information? This is vital info that nobody seems to have consolidated and could help many of us CTB in a much safer/controlled way (rather than risking getting burned a crisp with charcoal, even though I still like that method)

weedoge,
gas-powered generator in car:
"...500 ppm CO was reached after 30 s already. For technical reasons, no further values could be recorded."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0379073813005392

Additional info (access to entire article):
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/co-with-portable-generator.3787/#post-54805
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/co-with-portable-generator.3787/#post-54670

I hope that was what you were looking for?

 

[Arak]

Get a portable gas generator, put a load on it using a 120v heater and run it for 2 hours in a enclosed space before going in. Let it run when you go in.

This puts that in a different perspective.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/co-with-portable-generator.3787/#post-54805

 

[HannibalLector]

Hi, I'm curious if you have any background knowledge in how fast these generators burn through air or where to find this information? This is vital info that nobody seems to have consolidated and could help many of us CTB in a much safer/controlled way (rather than risking getting burned a crisp with charcoal, even though I still like that method)

The carbon monoxide produced by a generator is surprisingly high. A generator in an enclosed space like a car (3300 square meter) could be lethal within 2-6 minutes.

According to first link below 670 grams (carbon monoxide)/horsepower-hour is produced.

1 hk = 0,74 kW
So a 1,6 kW generator has about 2 horsepower (hk).

This implies a 1,6 kW generator would emit 670*2/60 about 22,33 gram carbon monoxide per minute. This seems a bit high. That would give 11600 ppm in a 3300 square meter vehicle in two minutes.

If the generator only produces 400 gram carbon monoxide per hour then 10000 ppm would be reached within 6 minutes.

1. Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from Small Gasoline-Powered Engines and Tools
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/96-118/default.html

2. summary
https://www.nist.gov/news-events/ne...table-generator-emissions-and-carbon-monoxide

3. source
https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/TechnicalNotes/NIST.TN.1781.pdf

 

[HannibalLector]

3300 square meter (above) is meant to be 3,3 square meter, sorry about that.

 

[weedoge]

The carbon monoxide produced by a generator is surprisingly high. A generator in an enclosed space like a car (3300 square meter) could be lethal within 2-6 minutes.

According to first link below 670 grams (carbon monoxide)/horsepower-hour is produced.

1 hk = 0,74 kW
So a 1,6 kW generator has about 2 horsepower (hk).

This implies a 1,6 kW generator would emit 670*2/60 about 22,33 gram carbon monoxide per minute. This seems a bit high. That would give 11600 ppm in a 3300 square meter vehicle in two minutes.

If the generator only produces 400 gram carbon monoxide per hour then 10000 ppm would be reached within 6 minutes.

1. Carbon Monoxide Poisoning from Small Gasoline-Powered Engines and Tools
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/96-118/default.html

2. summary
https://www.nist.gov/news-events/ne...table-generator-emissions-and-carbon-monoxide

3. source
https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/TechnicalNotes/NIST.TN.1781.pdf

Thanks buddy, also think the reburn info is relevant here especially if someone does some extra testing. It may seem like there is minimal CO being produced at first but when oxygen starts to deplete the idea is that CO production will increase. I'm curious about if it would be practical to burn these little camping gas lamps or something a bit cleaner than a generator. If you used a handful of those and also impinged the flames in some metal, then from what I've reading you should be able to bump up the CO product a bit. This is entirely hypothesis anyway and I'm curious to test this out.