Be prepared for SN to suck

[Morphosis]

I know, right? It seems that almost every day there's a new post about someone sipping SN for some dumb reason or the other. Why are they doing this? SN is not camomile tea and sipping will NOT give you any idea of what the proper regimen feels like. Stop it!

Exactly!!! Well said.

 

[ceelo]

There are ways to test without tasting. That's what purity tests are for.

thats not what theyre really doing it for, its because they arent really ready to die and are being over apprehensive

 

[ZardozOmega]

I did try a tiny, tiny bit. Really small, maybe 1/20 of a gram. The only thing that happened was that I had to burp a lot and it had this really nasty chemical taste. The burps, that is.

 

[autumnal]

My words were "keep it down". I never refer to a gag reflex.

No, but the text you directly quoted was referring to taste and the gag reflex, so it implied you were also referring to those.

 

[alexit]

No, but the text you directly quoted was referring to taste and the gag reflex, so it implied you were also referring to those.

My point was a general keeping it down, but do you deny some people will have a gag reflex triggered?

 

[Aap]

I think these taste test threads are at best non-productive and at worst harmful. I've mentioned the issue with "testing" meto is categorically not productive, as the EPS symptoms are very rare, don't set in immediately, and are More common on repeated dosing. While well meaning, every "test dose of meto" post actually increases the chances someone will actually develop them

SN is similar. When one takes something knowing that it will be fatal, this can be very stressful, but there is also some peace in the resignation and acceptance of that fact. Test doses are anxiety ridden for a different reason. You are literally drinking something and now have to wonder "will this kill me." Likewise, the test doses are often done after ruminating on certain side effects, creating a perfect storm for an anxiety feedback loop.

we don't have much data on dose specific side effects and never will. Does 1g cause nausea? Yes. Is 25g 25x worse? Almost definitely not. Is is twice as bad? Probably not. Same with tachycardia. How would becoming unconscious after 15 minutes affect the subjective experience?

the point is, there actually iS not much of anything testing doses of SN will tell us. The side effects are known. Testing doses only serve to increase the anxiety of the user and others while not providing the user with much of use and actually may worsen the symptoms due to anxiety.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Here's my unpopular opinion.

If people want to test SN, it's their body, their risk.

If they share the experience, it's more information.

There are regular arguments against testing, and against reporting about testing.

The primary argument has always been that others will read about someone testing SN and try it themselves. First, people test partial hanging all the time, and nobody loses their shit over it. The advice is to always be prepared that it could lead to death or to injury, including brain damage, which is way worse than the effects of SN, which can be reversed with treatment, and if they've already tested, then there's usually a discussion about what went wrong in the planning or execution. In the case of testing SN, it could lead to death or the need for medical internvention. Most of the symptoms are not avoidable, with the potential exception of symptoms that may be mitigated by antiemetics, antacids, or analgesics. In both instances, partial hanging and SN, one can also end up in a psych ward for having tested. Second, I don't see how anyone is so stupid that they see others testing partial hanging or SN and think, "Wow! Neat! I want to try that!" Maybe if they're into self-harm, in which case they're always on the lookout for something to harm them, that's their thing. Or maybe if they're a kid, in which case, what are they doing here anyway? Do adults have to stop doing everything that a kid doesn't understand and isn't ready for? If that were the case, adults wouldn't drink alcohol or do drugs or smoke cigarettes, or talk about it on public forums, because a kid might see them do it or read about them doing it and get the wrong idea, as kids do irl all the time when exposed to such things. If an adult comes on the forum and is that genuinely lacking in cognitive ability, they were already a candidate for the Darwin Awards before they got here, and they may not even have the cognitive ability to properly do any suicide method. It's still not cool to call them stupid and make them feel like shit. That's targeting, not helping.

The argument against testing SN which most concerns me is that once someone tests and experiences negative symptoms, it might turn them off from the method. This resonates to me as pushing the method, pushing suicide, and a return to the days of the forum being like an SN cult. Personally, I accidentally got some SN in my system, which I've talked about before, and no one jumped my shit for it, no one called me stupid, even though I admitted that what I did was unthinking (I tried to do the blood test, couldn't get enough blood for droplets, so put the SN on the open wound and the blood did change color, and I also experienced symptoms). Of the few symptoms I had, the one that was most concerning was difficulty breathing, and I am so not into suffocation. Now I know that if I attempt, I have to be prepared for that symptom, I know a tiny bit of what it will feel like, and I can either do what I can to prepare for what I find intolerable or find another method. It has indeed postponed my suicide, as I've already attempted more peaceful methods and failed, and can't obtain N. As the thread title said, I am prepared for SN to suck. I am prepared knowing that I may have to be conscious for that particular type of suck for up to 40 minutes, and it will suck far worse than what it did from a tiny amount of SN. I will also not be overwhelmed by experiencing it now that I've had a taste of it, so I will not suffer as much as I would have not knowing what was coming and a bit of how it would feel; I know myself, I know this to be true for myself, and I allow others to know what's true for themselves, and to make decisions for themselves. I am not sorry that I had that unintended experience, I was able to drink a lot of water and the symptoms quickly abated. I would not have ingested it intentionally, but I can't blame someone for doing so in order to get an idea of what it will be like so they can prepare. For those who do it for self-harm, I can't stop them any more than I can stop any other type of self-harm, and it's their body, not mine. For those who do it to troll, they know what they're doing is shitty, and they don't care. They get off on it. I'll refrain from name-calling or going off on them, because they jerk off to negative attention and having goaded others to stoop to anywhere near their level.

There has lately been a new argument that the symptoms experienced during testing are not representative of the experience of taking a full dose of SN. This makes no sense to me. I took in a little bit of SN, I experienced a little tachycardia, a little flushing, and a little difficulty breathing. If I take in more, I'm going to experience those symptoms more strongly. More poison will lead to stronger symptoms, and yes, it will also potentially lead to a quick(er) loss of consciousness, but there's no guarantee one will lose consciousness before experiencing the suck. It is also argued at the same time that testing a small amount is not fully representative of the suicide experience, but...duh. The complementary argument that's been going around of shooting oneself in the foot to test blowing one's head off is not even remotely the same thing. In fact, it's not even a thing. When people start doing that, I'll revisit my stance. Tag me on those threads so I don't miss them. I'm going to go buy some diapers now because I will definitely shit myself if that happens, though it will likely be trolling if such testing is reported.

Finally, about the slippery slope/bandwagon effect, that others will try it because they saw that others tried it. The same can be said for suicide. This is why the news generally doesn't publish methods, because there will be an increase of attempts with the same method. The fact that this forum exists means more people are going to attempt suicide. Some people, when they become aware of something, want to try it. I'll admit it's possible that the same goes for testing SN. But it's impossible to stop people from suiciding, it's impossible to stop people from self-harming, and it's impossible to stop people from doing unwise things. People will do what they're going to do and I can't control them, but I can try to control my own actions, so if I don't want to test SN, I won't, that's in my control. If someone says they are considering testing SN, I can point out the risks. If they've already done it, then their sharing is a cautionary tale. Telling them they're stupid or responsible for others' potential actions to me is as condemning and shaming and utterly valueless as putting someone in psych ward jail for self-harm or attempting suicide. It feels to me when someone condemns this action after it happens like having psychiatrists on the forum, moralizing about a behavior that has nothing to do with morals.

I'm not an apologist for testing SN. I do not recommend it. But if it's someone's choice, it's their choice, their body, their consequences. If they do it out of stupidity, they were already stupid before they got here, and how they've survived this long without killing themselves or ending up in a vegetative state is beyond comprehension, yet stupid people survive every day and smart people die every day.

That said, if this a new thing of trolls and posers coming on the forum and saying they tested SN for an agenda, I'll sound off about that, too. I think it's imporant to notice if there is a trend happening. There are also people who lie about attempting suicide, primarily by SN but also by other means. Pro-lifers also infiltrate in waves. Bullshit definitely happens on this forum every day, so if testing SN is a troll trend, or if there are any other suspicious trends, then if you smell something say something. Skepticism is imo always valuable. Bad arguments are not.



TL;DR

Most of my posts are long. Feel free to DR. Your eyes, your choice.

 

[falloutcarter13]

Here's my unpopular opinion.

If people want to test SN, it's their body, their risk.

If they share the experience, it's more information.

There are regular arguments against testing, and against reporting about testing.

The primary argument has always been that others will read about someone testing SN and try it themselves. First, people test partial hanging all the time, and nobody loses their shit over it. The advice is to always be prepared that it could lead to death or to injury, including brain damage, which is way worse than the effects of SN, which can be reversed with treatment, and if they've already tested, then there's usually a discussion about what went wrong in the planning or execution. In the case of testing SN, it could lead to death or the need for medical internvention. Most of the symptoms are not avoidable, with the potential exception of symptoms that may be mitigated by antiemetics, antacids, or analgesics. In both instances, partial hanging and SN, one can also end up in a psych ward for having tested. Second, I don't see how anyone is so stupid that they see others testing partial hanging or SN and think, "Wow! Neat! I want to try that!" Maybe if they're into self-harm, in which case they're always on the lookout for something to harm them, that's their thing. Or maybe if they're a kid, in which case, what are they doing here anyway? Do adults have to stop doing everything that a kid doesn't understand and isn't ready for? If that were the case, adults wouldn't drink alcohol or do drugs or smoke cigarettes, or talk about it on public forums, because a kid might see them do it or read about them doing it and get the wrong idea, as kids do irl all the time when exposed to such things. If an adult comes on the forum and is that genuinely lacking in cognitive ability, they were already a candidate for the Darwin Awards before they got here, and they may not even have the cognitive ability to properly do any suicide method. It's still not cool to call them stupid and make them feel like shit. That's targeting, not helping.

The argument against testing SN which most concerns me is that once someone tests and experiences negative symptoms, it might turn them off from the method. This resonates to me as pushing the method, pushing suicide, and a return to the days of the forum being like an SN cult. Personally, I accidentally got some SN in my system, which I've talked about before, and no one jumped my shit for it, no one called me stupid, even though I admitted that what I did was unthinking (I tried to do the blood test, couldn't get enough blood for droplets, so put the SN on the open wound and the blood did change color, and I also experienced symptoms). Of the few symptoms I had, the one that was most concerning was difficulty breathing, and I am so not into suffocation. Now I know that if I attempt, I have to be prepared for that symptom, I know a tiny bit of what it will feel like, and I can either do what I can to prepare for what I find intolerable or find another method. It has indeed postponed my suicide, as I've already attempted more peaceful methods and failed, and can't obtain N. As the thread title said, I am prepared for SN to suck. I am prepared knowing that I may have to be conscious for that particular type of suck for up to 40 minutes, and it will suck far worse than what it did from a tiny amount of SN. I will also not be overwhelmed by experiencing it now that I've had a taste of it, so I will not suffer as much as I would have not knowing what was coming and a bit of how it would feel; I know myself, I know this to be true for myself, and I allow others to know what's true for themselves, and to make decisions for themselves. I am not sorry that I had that unintended experience, I was able to drink a lot of water and the symptoms quickly abated. I would not have ingested it intentionally, but I can't blame someone for doing so in order to get an idea of what it will be like so they can prepare. For those who do it for self-harm, I can't stop them any more than I can stop any other type of self-harm, and it's their body, not mine. For those who do it to troll, they know what they're doing is shitty, and they don't care. They get off on it. I'll refrain from name-calling or going off on them, because they jerk off to negative attention and having goaded others to stoop to anywhere near their level.

There has lately been a new argument that the symptoms experienced during testing are not representative of the experience of taking a full dose of SN. This makes no sense to me. I took in a little bit of SN, I experienced a little tachycardia, a little flushing, and a little difficulty breathing. If I take in more, I'm going to experience those symptoms more strongly. More poison will lead to stronger symptoms, and yes, it will also potentially lead to a quick(er) loss of consciousness, but there's no guarantee one will lose consciousness before experiencing the suck. It is also argued at the same time that testing a small amount is not fully representative of the suicide experience, but...duh. The complementary argument that's been going around of shooting oneself in the foot to test blowing one's head off is not even remotely the same thing. In fact, it's not even a thing. When people start doing that, I'll revisit my stance. Tag me on those threads so I don't miss them. I'm going to go buy some diapers now because I will definitely shit myself if that happens, though it will likely be trolling if such testing is reported.

Finally, about the slippery slope/bandwagon effect, that others will try it because they saw that others tried it. The same can be said for suicide. This is why the news generally doesn't publish methods, because there will be an increase of attempts with the same method. The fact that this forum exists means more people are going to attempt suicide. Some people, when they become aware of something, want to try it. I'll admit it's possible that the same goes for testing SN. But it's impossible to stop people from suiciding, it's impossible to stop people from self-harming, and it's impossible to stop people from doing unwise things. People will do what they're going to do and I can't control them, but I can try to control my own actions, so if I don't want to test SN, I won't, that's in my control. If someone says they are considering testing SN, I can point out the risks. If they've already done it, then their sharing is a cautionary tale. Telling them they're stupid or responsible for others' potential actions to me is as condemning and shaming and utterly valueless as putting someone in psych ward jail for self-harm or attempting suicide. It feels to me when someone condemns this action after it happens like having psychiatrists on the forum, moralizing about a behavior that has nothing to do with morals.

I'm not an apologist for testing SN. I do not recommend it. But if it's someone's choice, it's their choice, their body, their consequences. If they do it out of stupidity, they were already stupid before they got here, and how they've survived this long without killing themselves or ending up in a vegetative state is beyond comprehension, yet stupid people survive every day and smart people die every day.

That said, if this a new thing of trolls and posers coming on the forum and saying they tested SN for an agenda, I'll sound off about that, too. I think it's imporant to notice if there is a trend happening. There are also people who lie about attempting suicide, primarily by SN but also by other means. Pro-lifers also infiltrate in waves. Bullshit definitely happens on this forum every day, so if testing SN is a troll trend, or if there are any other suspicious trends, then if you smell something say something. Skepticism is imo always valuable. Bad arguments are not.



TL;DR

Most of my posts are long. Feel free to DR. Your eyes, your choice.

I agree that all info is good info. You make lots of good points. I can see both sides of the argument here. Imo what it comes down to is everybody's different. Some people know it's going to suck, its poison and its 7/10 for peacefulness. That 30% not peaceful part should clue everyone in that they're in for some discomfort and/or pain. Some people only want to experience that once, when they're actually ready to ctb. Other people are just too curious to resist finding out what it may feel like before they commit to a full dose, they want to know beforehand. Others feel like they have to test it first to make sure they've got the real deal, they either don't know or don't trust in any testing methods they have access to. We're all individuals here with individual personalities and preferences, and if I read you correctly, it seems like you feel like *all* of them should be respected. Which I agree with. Just like suicide itself, as long as someone isn't pushing for or against SN, I personally don't see a problem with it. Thanks for taking the time to leave your thoughts in such detail =)

 

[Aap]

Of course, your body your choice. The concern is not that but rather that it negatively effects both the user, worries others, and negatively impacts the board. I used the example of meto, as it induces anxiety (that comes from well meaning but misinformed advice here8 and increases the likelihood of actually inducing the symptoms people worry about. I definitely don't read all of such posts, but I haven't seen one "I tried SN and feel so much better about the method" posts. Certainly if there are, they are in the minority.

Cutting is something people do, and some choose to use this method to ctb. That's fine, and certainly their body their choice. Surely though you could see the potential negative impact in a slew of "I'm going to practice cutting my wrists posts?" Absolutely, people should have the freedom to try SN test doses, as do you, and so do others who want to limit self harm.

There are many here who want to limit self harm, certainly not implying you don't, and spend time replying to every "how much paracetamol should I take" posts. That's one of the positives of this place.