Argon will it work?

[pappapgold]

Argon is the easiest and cheapest to get. I don't see much online about using it for the exit bag. I know it's heavier let lighter then co2.

I thought about putting the tube higher in the bag so it falls.

I have a 90cf tank which should be more then enough. For 20lpm should push out the co2 and keep enough argon at my face.

Any input or advise would be great.

 

[Green_leaf]

It will probably have same effects as with Nitrogen since both are inert gases.

An old chemical saying is that with Argon, you "are gone"...

 

[pappapgold]

It will probably have same effects as with Nitrogen since both are inert gases.

An old chemical saying is that with Argon, you "are gone"...

Ty for your feedback. I'll be going for it in the next few hours. I wish everyone a peaceful journey

 

[tulero]

interesting info:


Studies show that suicide attempts using argon are less
common than those using helium or nitrogen. Azrael et al.
[11] analyzed suicides in the United States between 2005 and
2012, and reported that 4% of deaths were caused by gas in-
halation, of which carbon monoxide was most common
(73%), followed by helium (21%), hydrogen sulfide (1%), and
nitrogen (1%). Gunnell et al. [12] reported that of 2,495 sui-
cide cases using gas between 2001 and 2011 in England, there
were three deaths due to argon. Yau and Paschall [13] investi-
gated 968 suicides, using chemical substances or gas between
2005 and 2014, and found six caused by argon gas poisoning;
fewer than those caused by helium or nitrogen. However, ex-
perimental studies have reported that argon is a stronger as-
phyxiant than helium or nitrogen. Altland et al. [14] discov-
ered that rats that had been exposed to helium, nitrogen, or
argon showed survival rates after one hour of 92%, 60%, and
12% respectively, demonstrating that argon was the strongest
asphyxiant. Another study identified that argon gas has a sed-
ative effect via actions on GABAA, the receptor targeted by
benzodiazepines [15]. Thus, argon could present a more at-
tractive option for those considering suicide as it may help al-
leviate fear.

 

[pappapgold]

interesting info:


Studies show that suicide attempts using argon are less
common than those using helium or nitrogen. Azrael et al.
[11] analyzed suicides in the United States between 2005 and
2012, and reported that 4% of deaths were caused by gas in-
halation, of which carbon monoxide was most common
(73%), followed by helium (21%), hydrogen sulfide (1%), and
nitrogen (1%). Gunnell et al. [12] reported that of 2,495 sui-
cide cases using gas between 2001 and 2011 in England, there
were three deaths due to argon. Yau and Paschall [13] investi-
gated 968 suicides, using chemical substances or gas between
2005 and 2014, and found six caused by argon gas poisoning;
fewer than those caused by helium or nitrogen. However, ex-
perimental studies have reported that argon is a stronger as-
phyxiant than helium or nitrogen. Altland et al. [14] discov-
ered that rats that had been exposed to helium, nitrogen, or
argon showed survival rates after one hour of 92%, 60%, and
12% respectively, demonstrating that argon was the strongest
asphyxiant. Another study identified that argon gas has a sed-
ative effect via actions on GABAA, the receptor targeted by
benzodiazepines [15]. Thus, argon could present a more at-
tractive option for those considering suicide as it may help al-
leviate fear.

Thank you for that info. This does seem like a better option now.

 

[Forveleth]

interesting info:


Studies show that suicide attempts using argon are less
common than those using helium or nitrogen. Azrael et al.
[11] analyzed suicides in the United States between 2005 and
2012, and reported that 4% of deaths were caused by gas in-
halation, of which carbon monoxide was most common
(73%), followed by helium (21%), hydrogen sulfide (1%), and
nitrogen (1%). Gunnell et al. [12] reported that of 2,495 sui-
cide cases using gas between 2001 and 2011 in England, there
were three deaths due to argon. Yau and Paschall [13] investi-
gated 968 suicides, using chemical substances or gas between
2005 and 2014, and found six caused by argon gas poisoning;
fewer than those caused by helium or nitrogen. However, ex-
perimental studies have reported that argon is a stronger as-
phyxiant than helium or nitrogen. Altland et al. [14] discov-
ered that rats that had been exposed to helium, nitrogen, or
argon showed survival rates after one hour of 92%, 60%, and
12% respectively, demonstrating that argon was the strongest
asphyxiant. Another study identified that argon gas has a sed-
ative effect via actions on GABAA, the receptor targeted by
benzodiazepines [15]. Thus, argon could present a more at-
tractive option for those considering suicide as it may help al-
leviate fear.

Ooh, this sounds really interesting! Can you link to the source?

 

[NegevChina]

Argon is the easiest and cheapest to get. I don't see much online about using it for the exit bag. I know it's heavier let lighter then co2.

I thought about putting the tube higher in the bag so it falls.

I have a 90cf tank which should be more then enough. For 20lpm should push out the co2 and keep enough argon at my face.

Any input or advise would be great.

The PPH says Argon will work:

It doesn't mention any modifications to the exit bag. The inert gas replaces the air by the continuous flow so the weight of the gas probably doesn't matter much.

 

[tulero]

Ooh, this sounds really interesting! Can you link to the source?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352260222_Suicide_Attempt_by_Inhalation_of_Argon_Gas

 

[Intoxicated]

However, ex- perimental studies have reported that argon is a stronger as- phyxiant than helium or nitrogen. Altland et al. [14] discov- ered that rats that had been exposed to helium, nitrogen, or argon showed survival rates after one hour of 92%, 60%, and 12% respectively, demonstrating that argon was the strongest asphyxiant.

The rodents are small, and they were asphyxiated in a relatively big chamber. Of course, it could be expected that heavier gases would be more deadly in such a case, because of their distribution near the bottom. This doesn't necessarily imply that there would be a significant difference between helium and argon when they're inhaled under the conditions typical for common CTB methods with gas asphyxiation. Probably, in the sitting position, argon would displace oxygen from the lungs just slightly better.

Another study identified that argon gas has a sed- ative effect via actions on GABAA, the receptor targeted by benzodiazepines [15]. Thus, argon could present a more at- tractive option for those considering suicide as it may help al- leviate fear.

Argon has such effects only under high pressures that may take place in deep diving or inside hyperbaric chambers (and the study documentation explicitly mentions the use of a hyperbaric chamber for the experiments). This is absolutely irrelevant to the typical CTB conditions with use of inert gases. It looks like the authors of that publication about CTB were just entirely clueless about the underlying physics.