Discussion Are parents inherently evil throughout?

[slyna]

Getting a baby means you understand that your kid will suffer guaranteed.
They know it. And they get off on it.
They probably get horny thinking about causing this guaranteed suffering to a innocent soul. At least its not directly killing someone so it doesn't look obvious. It's the sneaky silent way of fucking up another life and enjoying it legally.

Not only life brings sufferings in itself but death is the epitome of suffering.

So we can all agree parents are sadistic murderers? I would even go so far and say parents are worse than child rapers and molesters and all sorts of pedophiles.

Like people don't dwelve in this argument enough.
You are blinded by media and other noise. Parents are dangerous individuals.

 

[Deleted member 8579]

Saying that a parent is evil is akin to saying that a drunk driver is evil.
Following the maxim that a simple explanation is preferable to a complicated one, I would say that parents are merely ignorant, negligent or stupid (the "or" is inclusive).

 

[Dear Agony]

No lmao they're not. Most people don't think life is inherently bad and they like to think their children will have a good life (if they love them). *Society* is inherently evil. They pressure people, especially women into having kids, and call abortion murder. We probably wouldn't have this overpopulation problem if abortion was legal and not a taboo anyways. And don't talk about parents being irresponsible to use condoms, because usually it is the man who pressures the woman not to, because it takes away sensibility and it's more pleasurable without one. And when the woman wants to abort the man can just leave forever and the woman is forced to raise a child she doesn't fucking want to. So if you're so bothered about the idea of people becoming parents, start by being bothered by sexism and the patriarchy first instead of judging those who literally had no choice and were viewed as a walking uterus since they were born, aka females lol.
I am personally anti natalist as well, but I don't judge those around me who chose to have kids because I know this is a heavy burden especially on other women. Because I was born female I am expected to and heavily pressured into giving birth. And god forbid I have sex, accidentally get pregnant and want an abortion because that means I'll go to hell, right? Lmao.

 

[CynicalHopelessness]

I think @Schöngeist and @reversenightmare are onto something there. People are subjected to biological instincts, optimism bias, cultural influences and peer pressure to have kids, and largely give life positive value. All those effects evolved because they were helpful for gene and meme replication, irrespectively of what individual carriers or whole groups ascribe to such action. That is true not only for the act of birth, but for the upbringing too.

We here largely don't consider life to have a positive value - it's an opt-out-of-life community, after all. With that as a basis, it's trivial to make a logical conclusion that having kids is evil (as it's a start of a causal chain leading to all other suffering). However, most of the time most humans aren't logical. And as I don't subscribe to "free will" and "individual responsibility" ideas, I see people having kids as a continuation of causal chain beyond their control.

 

[heretogethelp]

Getting a baby means you understand that your kid will suffer guaranteed.
They know it. And they get off on it.
They probably get horny thinking about causing this guaranteed suffering to a innocent soul. At least its not directly killing someone so it doesn't look obvious. It's the sneaky silent way of fucking up another life and enjoying it legally.

Not only life brings sufferings in itself but death is the epitome of suffering.

So we can all agree parents are sadistic murderers? I would even go so far and say parents are worse than child rapers and molesters and all sorts of pedophiles.

Like people don't dwelve in this argument enough.
You are blinded by media and other noise. Parents are dangerous individuals.

Well, my parents are the reason I'm here. Sentenced to life. This fact infuriates me.

 

[stankboy421]

So we can all agree parents are sadistic murderers? I would even go so far and say parents are worse than child rapers and molesters and all sorts of pedophiles.

No and this is quite an alarming and hateful opinion. Some parents are bad people, but parenting is not inherently evil or sadistic. Most people don't actually suffer to a huge extent in their lives that they would prefet death, most people enjoy life, so creating a baby is not done with the intention or even an understanding that it will definitely suffer.

For clarification I do think it's irresponsible and selfish to bring a child into this world with climate change and societal collapse looming but that is my personal opinion. Parents are not evil simply because they're parents! A lot of my friends have kids and they are all wonderful people. My own parents are lovely too.

I appreciate that you are angry at your parents for having you but they almost certainly didn't bring you into the world just to spite you, I promise!

 

[Amacko]

Misery loves company I assume

 

[slyna]

I think @Schöngeist and @reversenightmare are onto something there. People are subjected to biological instincts, optimism bias, cultural influences and peer pressure to have kids, and largely give life positive value. All those effects evolved because they were helpful for gene and meme replication, irrespectively of what individual carriers or whole groups ascribe to such action. That is true not only for the act of birth, but for the upbringing too.

We here largely don't consider life to have a positive value - it's an opt-out-of-life community, after all. With that as a basis, it's trivial to make a logical conclusion that having kids is evil (as it's a start of a causal chain leading to all other suffering). However, most of the time most humans aren't logical. And as I don't subscribe to "free will" and "individual responsibility" ideas, I see people having kids as a continuation of causal chain beyond their control.

So you're saying that child rapists don't have control of what they're doing

No lmao they're not. Most people don't think life is inherently bad and they like to think their children will have a good life (if they love them). *Society* is inherently evil. They pressure people, especially women into having kids, and call abortion murder. We probably wouldn't have this overpopulation problem if abortion was legal and not a taboo anyways. And don't talk about parents being irresponsible to use condoms, because usually it is the man who pressures the woman not to, because it takes away sensibility and it's more pleasurable without one. And when the woman wants to abort the man can just leave forever and the woman is forced to raise a child she doesn't fucking want to. So if you're so bothered about the idea of people becoming parents, start by being bothered by sexism and the patriarchy first instead of judging those who literally had no choice and were viewed as a walking uterus since they were born, aka females lol.
I am personally anti natalist as well, but I don't judge those around me who chose to have kids because I know this is a heavy burden especially on other women. Because I was born female I am expected to and heavily pressured into giving birth. And god forbid I have sex, accidentally get pregnant and want an abortion because that means I'll go to hell, right? Lmao.

Lets face it, a lot of women get babies just to force the man to pay for it the rest of its life

No lmao they're not. Most people don't think life is inherently bad and they like to think their children will have a good life (if they love them). *Society* is inherently evil. They pressure people, especially women into having kids, and call abortion murder. We probably wouldn't have this overpopulation problem if abortion was legal and not a taboo anyways. And don't talk about parents being irresponsible to use condoms, because usually it is the man who pressures the woman not to, because it takes away sensibility and it's more pleasurable without one. And when the woman wants to abort the man can just leave forever and the woman is forced to raise a child she doesn't fucking want to. So if you're so bothered about the idea of people becoming parents, start by being bothered by sexism and the patriarchy first instead of judging those who literally had no choice and were viewed as a walking uterus since they were born, aka females lol.
I am personally anti natalist as well, but I don't judge those around me who chose to have kids because I know this is a heavy burden especially on other women. Because I was born female I am expected to and heavily pressured into giving birth. And god forbid I have sex, accidentally get pregnant and want an abortion because that means I'll go to hell, right? Lmao.

Lets face it, a lot of women get babies just to force the man to pay for it the rest of its life

No and this is quite an alarming and hateful opinion. Some parents are bad people, but parenting is not inherently evil or sadistic. Most people don't actually suffer to a huge extent in their lives that they would prefet death, most people enjoy life, so creating a baby is not done with the intention or even an understanding that it will definitely suffer.

For clarification I do think it's irresponsible and selfish to bring a child into this world with climate change and societal collapse looming but that is my personal opinion. Parents are not evil simply because they're parents! A lot of my friends have kids and they are all wonderful people. My own parents are lovely too.

I appreciate that you are angry at your parents for having you but they almost certainly didn't bring you into the world just to spite you, I promise!

Yes, it's my opinion. You can't decide what I believe is the ultimate truth.

 

[CynicalHopelessness]

So you're saying that child rapists don't have control of what they're doing

Not more than a depressed person has control of their depression.

 

[slyna]

Not more than a depressed person has control of their depression.

Invalid comparison

 

[Amumu]

Not more than a depressed person has control of their depression.

Lmao we see the problem with hardcore determinism here. It makes people completely immoral because they're supposed to have control over nothing.

A mix of free will / slight determinism would be accurate in my opinion.

 

[CynicalHopelessness]

Lmao we see the problem with hardcore determinism here

Not sure why you think that's my approach.

I see people as having predispositions to different features (like being a child rapist or depressed) which play out on a certain socioeconomic environment. Those together let you talk about probability of something (a child rape or depression) happening. That's where I'm not a hardcore determinist. I'm undecided. It could be determined, purely random, or that's where individual choice manifests. Could even be a mix of all these, different for different features.

What matters is that socioeconomic environment changes and is malleable to reason. If you want solutions, it makes sense to look for them at systems level.

 

[hʚll]

nature is inheretly evil and we are part of it so we are all evil too even if we don't want to or don't know it.
parents are more evil than antinatalists though.
cessation of all sentient life is the only chance to stop all the evil. i wish it was possibile

 

[Deleted member 8579]

nature is inheretly evil

"Good" and "evil" are man-made concepts; nature simply exists. It is extrinsically evil because we observe that all things we consider to be evil are stemming from nature, but nature is not inherently evil.

 

[whywere]

Great question! So many opinions and ideas, and all in some form or fashion are correct.

Now in my case, no pity party, it is just what it is, and I have mentioned this numerous times on here, my "parents" were ??,, I will let readers make up their own minds.

They had a male child 1st and wanted a girl. They tried the 2nd time and got me. Then they tried the 3th time and got a female child. I was NEVER EVER wanted, and both "parents" called me "the mistake" to my face, in public, heck everywhere. When I turned 18, I was kicked out and never heard from either "parent" again. When both of them passed on, they left my younger sister a hobby farm and cash and my older brother got over 2 million U.S. dollars and I got ZERO.

To this day, neither of my siblings will speak to me and I have not spoken to either since like 1990. They were/are brain washed from my "parents".

That is why when I say on here I have no family or friends, I am not B.S.ing ever. I have always wondered what it is like to sit down to a family dinner , especially during the holidays or even a Sunday dinner. Never had it.

So, at least for me, my "parents" were evil. They would not give me up for adoption because at that time period it would have looked very bad socially for them. They had their pride and I was a useless mouth to feed and to clothe.

Walter

 

[hʚll]

"Good" and "evil" are man-made concepts; nature simply exists. It is extrinsically evil because we observe that all things we consider to be evil are stemming from nature, but nature is not inherently evil.

i believe in athkneovism

Nature is inherently corrupt and it is the source of all evil. The term "nature" and phrase "state of nature" within the Athkneovism community is used as a synonym for the concept of evil. Evil being anything that causes harm and suffering in some form or fashion, as explained by the Merriam Webster dictionary. Nature is the father of every evil that we see in the world today such as deception, killing, theft, selfishness, abuse, etc. Nature can even be seen in what humans consider wild life. Animals killing one another, plants being eaten alive by diseases, natural disasters wiping out entire ecosystems, the list goes on. (athkneovism guide)

 

[TriggerHappy]

wow, I couldn't go so far as calling them evil :: as I got older my deeds eclipsed theirs... im sure some parents deserve that label :: I endured what my shrinks term abuse, but I gave it back when I was old enough.
There wasn't this hatred, just this cold war between us :: I was never good enough /discovered a half brother my dad hid from us that he abandoned. Luckily he was away drinking / whoring /gambling while building his empire :: I just avoided him, got money / gifts instead of love, bigtime: overseas holidays (binges of note during the era of rave); a Porsche for my 20th (later traded it for Harley and copious amounts of coke from hells angels mates :: im known for pulling crazy fuck you's) when he wrote me out his will. He never visited me in rehab / prison cos I used to mostly be in corrective intervention for sexually picking off the other guys... i got off on that, freaking him out by thumbing my macho sexuslity in his face:: see what you made, im your creation? I've shared that I may have been abused sexually by him, then when I turned out queer he hated me.
see how dark is my sickness?
My fault :: I was on one hell of a bender that would last a decade. We kinda healed things later in life but we're never close:: mom was fkn awesome, loved every boyfriend I brought 2meet her, but now I'd maybe admit she was a bit enabling (im a manipulative mindfuck tho)
So the moral of the story, kids :: is a universal one :: (welcome to the murky side of the family gene pool, every family has one)
The lessons I learnt can be summed up like this (in my retarded thinking):
money is the root of all evil :: or the sins of the father will be visited on his son :: or you reap what you sow or... oh fuck I give up.
:: i promise ill try harder in the next life.

 

[ItsTimeToExit]

You selected the incorrect thread prefix because this is not a discussion but a vent.

I have seen mental gymnastics from a few members on SS as they go through hilarious lengths to justify their decisions and conclusions but you without a doubt take the number 1 spot.

Any counter argument that is made you immediately come back with a single ~factual~ statement (without any supporting sources) and then defend it as "my opinion". Your thread title purports that this is a discussion but you're not here to discuss anything because you have already made up your mind and just want to argue.

But in order to take part in the (rather pointless) discussion,

33% of the worlds population have two adults living with minor children and there is no doubt that the vast majority of those children will grow up to be (mostly) functioning adults and positively contribute to the world. They won't be perfect by any means. The real world will make sure of that.

I'm sorry if your parents were terrible and lead you down the path to SS, but not all parents are terrible.

 

[TriggerHappy]

You selected the incorrect thread prefix because this is not a discussion but a vent.

I'm sorry if your parents were terrible and lead you down the path to SS, but not all parents are terrible.​

No you're not sorry! You're rude.
I mean no offence.
Your judgements are toxic.
The nature of posts is that they are fluid, because they are anything but prescriptive...
What makes you the judge... you must have had quite an upbringing... lol
Your percentages are flawed. What do u term functional, and how exactly?
Yeah we may not have 'model' factoid parents, and yes our path is our own making.
That doesn't negate the lessons that we were taught, or the results thereof.



Only 33% functional, wow thats impressive. Then what makes the rest of us; hands up those kids that went thru childhood hell?!!!!
There's no way, have you taken the 2nd / 3rd world into account?

 

[Lmd]

Parenting gives a lot of headaches and babies are a hole where money disappears. If there are already so many potential victims alive, why would you go into the tangle of parenthood to create a new victim that will drain all your energy and prevent you from sleeping? In any case, the devil will be the baby.

 

[Deleted member 8579]

i believe in athkneovism

Nature is inherently corrupt and it is the source of all evil. The term "nature" and phrase "state of nature" within the Athkneovism community is used as a synonym for the concept of evil. Evil being anything that causes harm and suffering in some form or fashion, as explained by the Merriam Webster dictionary. Nature is the father of every evil that we see in the world today such as deception, killing, theft, selfishness, abuse, etc. Nature can even be seen in what humans consider wild life. Animals killing one another, plants being eaten alive by diseases, natural disasters wiping out entire ecosystems, the list goes on. (athkneovism guide)

It is important to differentiate between intrinsic and extrinsic properties. It is true that nature is the source of everything man considers evil, so it is extrinsically evil, because the concept of evil is man-made and man imposes it on nature.

To illustrate, let us assume that nature were exactly as it is now, and an alien lands on earth. The alien resembles a human being in all mental and physical aspects, save for the added distinction that everything we currently register as suffering is pleasurable for him. In this scenario, the alien would not arrive at the conclusion that nature is evil, because his perception of it is different, although the nature is the same.
In other words, the concept of evil does not depend on nature (intrinsic), but on your perception of it (extrinsic).

The concept of evil is man-made and is a reflection of the views of society; as society changes, so does the concept of evil. Things that were once considered neutral or even good are now considered to be evil and there is no doubt that in the future many of the things we consider to be neutral or good today will be judged as evil.

 

[TriggerHappy]

I'm realizing a great response to a scientific thesis, is a punch in the face!
《Ouch....》
Or maybe the dull bliss of a tequila slammer.
I'm intellectually dwarfed (and for that I blame my parents, joke!)
But carry on.....
I'll go screw someone in the uni bathrooms....
That will definitely make me feel better!

 

[ItsTimeToExit]

No you're not sorry! You're rude.
Your percentages are flawed. What do u term functional, and how exactly?

My words will always be considered rude because I don't filter.

Secondly, my parents were great and its sad not everyone has the same experience and because of that, I am sorry that the OP may have had bad parents. Children must be protected, not harmed.

Your percentages are flawed.

Tell Stephanie Kramer her percentages are flawed. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...de-which-living-arrangements-are-most-common/

America has it at 70%, https://www.census.gov/library/stor...eir-mothers-has-doubled-in-past-50-years.html

What do u term functional, and how exactly?

Contribute to the economy (yeah yeah, wage slave...)
Can take care of themselves and are not codependent.
Manage their finances correctly.
Can hold a job.
Time management.
Always learning in a constantly changing world.

All of the above can be empirically measured.

Determine if their "friends" are really friends.
Treat other people with kindness.
Self control.
Have a plan for your life.

There are many ways a person can be measured as functional. It's not perfect either because everyone has different circumstances that make some things impossible or incredibly difficult.

I personally fail on 3 of the listed items.

 

[TriggerHappy]

My words will always be considered rude because I don't filter

Secondly, my parents were great and its sad not everyone has the same experience and because of that, I am sorry that the OP may have had bad parents. Children must be protected, not harmed.


Tell Stephanie Kramer her percentages are flawed. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...de-which-living-arrangements-are-most-common/

America has it at 70%, https://www.census.gov/library/stor...eir-mothers-has-doubled-in-past-50-years.html


Contribute to the economy (yeah yeah, wage slave...)
Can take care of themselves and are not codependent.
Manage their finances correctly.
Can hold a job.
Time management.
Always learning in a constantly changing world.

All of the above can be empirically measure

Determine if their "friends" are really friends.
Treat other people with kindness.
Self control.
Have a plan for your life.

I've failed on all of em, I win, now let's go dig up my folks and find out why.
How ridiculous I am.
Your filter is fine :: I have no problem with you:: im here to learn.
But.
What i have a problem with is Stephanie Kramers myopic study: take Sub-Saharan africa / India (where I've lived, also europe) she discusses in depth the number of people per household :: but nowhere does she mention the incest /abuse stats evident in those houses...
Or what living conditions there are really like. I do. Bitch knows nothing.

It's not perfect either because everyone has different circumstances that make some things impossible or incredibly difficult.

You have just made mute your own point, no?

There are many ways a person can be measured as functional.

My dad gave me a beautiful cock.
Exactly like his (don't you dare ask how I fucking know that....)
I hope that counts as a functional measure...?!
You have zero comprehension of how parents can fuck you up. Bravo.

 

[demuic]

nature is inheretly evil and we are part of it so we are all evil too even if we don't want to or don't know it.
parents are more evil than antinatalists though.
cessation of all sentient life is the only chance to stop all the evil. i wish it was possibile

It will happen eventually, no matter what anyone would like to think otherwise. All will be oblivion and nothing and no one on this shitty rock will be around to be convinced of their own self importantance and irrelevant constructions. This is one of the few things that comforts me.

 

[slyna]

I'm realizing a great response to a scientific thesis, is a punch in the face!
《Ouch....》
Or maybe the dull bliss of a tequila slammer.
I'm intellectually dwarfed (and for that I blame my parents, joke!)
But carry on.....
I'll go screw someone in the uni bathrooms....
That will definitely make me feel better!

What?

You selected the incorrect thread prefix because this is not a discussion but a vent.

I have seen mental gymnastics from a few members on SS as they go through hilarious lengths to justify their decisions and conclusions but you without a doubt take the number 1 spot.

Any counter argument that is made you immediately come back with a single ~factual~ statement (without any supporting sources) and then defend it as "my opinion". Your thread title purports that this is a discussion but you're not here to discuss anything because you have already made up your mind and just want to argue.

But in order to take part in the (rather pointless) discussion,

33% of the worlds population have two adults living with minor children and there is no doubt that the vast majority of those children will grow up to be (mostly) functioning adults and positively contribute to the world. They won't be perfect by any means. The real world will make sure of that.

I'm sorry if your parents were terrible and lead you down the path to SS, but not all parents are terrible.

Yes. All parents are terrible sadly. They foster suffering. They create suffering. They create death.

They are worse than pedophiles.

 

[doesntevenmatter]

I love you guys, I really do. And I am so sorry for everything you've all gone through here, because being here myself I know the tortures we all have faced to be in the position we are. That being said, I just can't agree with you here on the original post.. I don't think parents are evil simply for being parents. In fact, we have members here who are parents themselves. I also don't think that most parents have kids sadistically, I'd say in fact that's probably pretty rare. If anything people have kids when they aren't ready or don't necessarily want them, and that's when things get bad and you have all these terrible parents out there. But generally speaking I would say most people who have kids really expect to give their kids a good life and to be good parents. Just sadly, many fail to hit the mark.

It's been said in this thread already, but not everyone turns out to be like those of us here. A LOT of people live mostly normal, happy lives. No matter how you slice it there is pain and suffering, and everyone is going to experience that, but a lot of people find it worth it because of the joys that life CAN bring. Even I have experienced joy at times, and even though I do sometimes wish I'd never been born I also like holding on to those memories that did bring me joy. I don't bring this up a lot but one of my ex-girlfriends had a miscarriage many years ago. It was very quickly after conception but to this day I always wonder what things would have been like. Maybe everyone is better off, but I can't say that for sure. I just can't see eye to eye with you on this but I do 100% respect your opinion and am sorry life has forced this opinion on you.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

Stop typing, start cockblocking breeders.

 

[nothingchanges]

it's funny bc it basically is directly killing someone. no one would ever die if they were never born. no matter who or what in a persons life causes them suffering or death, the parents are always at fault bc they voluntarily brought the person into this shithole hell world knowing the risks.

 

[hʚll]

It is important to differentiate between intrinsic and extrinsic properties. It is true that nature is the source of everything man considers evil, so it is extrinsically evil, because the concept of evil is man-made and man imposes it on nature.

To illustrate, let us assume that nature were exactly as it is now, and an alien lands on earth. The alien resembles a human being in all mental and physical aspects, save for the added distinction that everything we currently register as suffering is pleasurable for him. In this scenario, the alien would not arrive at the conclusion that nature is evil, because his perception of it is different, although the nature is the same.
In other words, the concept of evil does not depend on nature (intrinsic), but on your perception of it (extrinsic).

The concept of evil is man-made and is a reflection of the views of society; as society changes, so does the concept of evil. Things that were once considered neutral or even good are now considered to be evil and there is no doubt that in the future many of the things we consider to be neutral or good today will be judged as evil.

something i really agree with. maybe you might want to give it a read

truth is that i am not good with semantics