Discussion Are parents inherently evil throughout?

[eternalmelancholy]

First, no I'm not a parent. I wish, but I cannot get anyone to date me long-term. Second, where is the 1-50 stat coming from? A lot of "attempts" fail because a lot are women making gestures, not actually trying to go. I'm not being the tone police, but I'm bringing to light that anti-natalism is not a good position to have.

Also, I said my upbringing was decent, not good. My parents, who did "try their best" left me with a ton of anxieties. Still, it's impossible to predict your kid will one day be so fucked up because, again, the odds are staggeringly low. You obviously disagree, and I imagine you are venting because of some recent event or thought whirlwind about this so whatever

Get off your high horse. Who are you to say that anti-natalism is not a good position to have? You are on a suicidal forum and still want to have kids? People like you are what is wrong with the world.

Look how casually you dismiss others with your smug, presumptuous replies. Over 50 million people die each year and over 1 million of those are from suicide. It is not hard to figure out.

 

[44nutz1977]

For me the 'happily married' couple are such a low percentage. The kids get affected when the married couple start to hate each other.
Bad vibes fall out on the kids.

I had great parents ... but when I was a teenager they changed. Well.. they stayed together for the kids (me). This in turn made them a little resentful towards me maybe. Dunno exactly. Also as a teenager it's normal to push people away. So much shit going through the head as you grow. Find out who YOU are. That's tough enough without parents making shit bad too.

Realise also (any teenagers or young adults) YOU will be going through hormonal shit that they your parents cannot recall clearly.
So if they are fucked up and not guiding or supporting you and YOU are fucked up...
Then you ALL get more fucked up.

People having kids right now. I get pretty angry. It's baffling why anyone would want a kid in 2021. The world is on the verge of some heavy revolution. Couples who want a little baby of their very own (ughhh) should be holding on.
Wait until life looks brighter. Safer.

We got enough humans around selfishly full of materialistic bullshit money grabbing self obsessed... Corrupt world leaders. Corrupt everywhere (it's extremely hard to find a pure uncorrupt company that means well).

I'm done with politics. I'm done with little idiots making babies and wanting middle class slavery... Which will end in debt, divorce and misery. Fuck that.

I'm cynical as fuck too. It appears to me humanity still want their fast food and their bullshit fast money. Advertising has brainwashed millions and millions. I see the youth today being selfish and materialistic. Desperate to be seen and heard. Yet just being triggered before educating themselves. Don't be offended young folks. The middle aged and old are just as stupid.

I'm a cynical middle aged old fuck really.
No longer want a part of this. It's all going to kick off next year ...more war than ever. A real divide. USA is so fucked. UK is fucked. Everywhere looks pretty fucked and I don't have the energy to join a rebellion against the corruption..

I'm done.

 

[Hangman]

My parents are fine. They sometimes neglected me, didn't know what's best for me and lashed out on me, but they were also good parents much of the time.

I'm very afraid of bringing a child to this life. I may be worse parent than my own were. I don't think I'm capable of parenthood. This life is not that amazing and there's soon too much people around anyway.

 

[Circles]

Get off your high horse. Who are you to say that anti-natalism is not a good position to have? You are on a suicidal forum and still want to have kids? People like you are what is wrong with the world.

Look how casually you dismiss others with your smug, presumptuous replies. Over 50 million people die each year and over 1 million of those are from suicide. It is not hard to figure out.

Serious question and please try not to be rude to me please I'm simply going to ask a question okay. But what do you think is the solution then? Humans are going to keep fucking and have kids no matter what and no amount rationalization or antinatalism is going to stop it from happening. And besides forced sterilization which is some Nazi type shit what other solutions are there? Wide spread education about sex maybe but even then births still happens and will happen most especially in religious countries.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

Serious question and please try not to be rude to me please I'm simply going to ask a question okay. But what do you think is the solution then? Humans are going to keep fucking and have kids no matter what and no amount rationalization or antinatalism is going to stop it from happening. And besides forced sterilization which is some Nazi type shit what other solutions are there? Wide spread education about about sex maybe but even then births still happens most especially in religious countries.

I don't know why you are asking me this question. How am I supposed to come up with a solution to human suffering? People are going to do whatever they want regardless of the harm it causes others. Even the threat of imprisonment does not stop people from violating the rights of others.

I resent the fact that I am forced to choose between ending my own life or enduring decades of further suffering. All because two idiots decided to give birth to me. People's naive optimism result in the pain of their offspring but apparently that is an acceptable risk according to some.

 

[mlha]

it's not like parents can expect their children to turn out this poorly - it's an anomaly, not the norm.

So it means that parents are risking that their children will suffer, they know it's a possibility.

at least a decent life that they can tolerate.

It seems like the human condition doesn't allow you to write something more glorious, yeah tolerating life that's such a nice goal.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

I resent the fact that I am forced to choose between ending my own life or enduring decades of further suffering. All because two idiots decided to give birth to me. People's naive optimism result in the pain of their offspring but apparently that is an acceptable risk according to some.

It's not just "naive optimism". It's the desire for power over a weak creature who's legally prohibited from running away or CTB'ing out of its [sic] misery. If kids could CTB or escape their homes on their own accord, birth rates would plummet like a turd dropping into a toilet. Because parents would lose their power to emotionally abuse kids with no legal consequences.

 

[Circles]

I don't know why you are asking me this question. How am I supposed to come up with a solution to human suffering? People are going to do whatever they want regardless of the harm it causes others. Even the threat of imprisonment does not stop people from violating the rights of others.

I resent the fact that I am forced to choose between ending my own life or enduring decades of further suffering. All because two idiots decided to give birth to me. People's naive optimism result in the pain of their offspring but apparently that is an acceptable risk according to some.

I asked because you're making a lot of assumptions and blaming every parent for doing what their biology dictates them to do. Which is to mate and have kids. Biology is to blame for the selfishness humans have. So why are you talking so much toxic hogwash against parents if you cannot come up with any solutions yourself then? Cause if you can't come up with anything then guess what they're going to keep on making babies no matter what.

It's amazing how whenever there's a sensitive topic there can never be any fucking rational discussion. Take care if you can.

 

[mlha]

their biology dictates them to do. Which is to mate and have kids. Biology is to blame

Biology maybe suggests, but it doesn't dictate. You can override your instinct with your will. Granted, some instincts are harder to override than other ones.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

I asked because you're making a lot of assumptions and blaming every parent for doing what their biology dictates them to do. Which is to mate and have kids. Biology is to blame for the selfishness humans have. So why are you talking so much toxic hogwash against parents if you cannot come up with any solutions yourself then? Cause if you can't come up with anything then guess what they're going to keep on making babies no matter what.

So I have to solve human suffering before having the right to complain? I thought part of being human was to control biological impulses. Give me a fucking break, now you are blaming biology for the selfish decisions that individuals make?

I find this topic fascinating because it draws out people who will defend tooth and nail their idiotic and selfish desires. You are on a suicide forum. You want to die yet still defend having kids? Sound exactly like my parents who try to justify everything.

 

[motel rooms]

And you will not believe none of them ASKED TO APPEAR IN THIS WORLD! How beautiful this world is.

What's so beautiful about this world? The fact that none of us asked to be born & that some of us are forced to experience horrendous, pointless suffering in it?

 

[Labean]

What's so beautiful about this world? The fact that none of us asked to be born & that some of us are forced to experience horrendous, pointless suffering in it?

"Wonderful World" was sarcasm.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

So I have to solve human suffering before having the right to complain? I thought part of being human was to control biological impulses. Give me a fucking break, now you are blaming biology for the selfish decisions that individuals make?

The problem is that parents and kids live on totally different planes of existence. The parents have 24/7 access to legal substances (like alcohol, cigarettes, and prescription pills), they don't have to answer to anyone but themselves (excluding work), and they can live they lives any way they fucking want. The kids have to constantly appease their parents with perfect grades in school, they have to eat what they're served, they have to go to bed when they're told, and they live under constant threat of punishments for whatever transgression their parents fabricate at any random moment.

If adults/parents had to live the lives kids live, the CTB rate would be through the roof, and gravediggers would working around the clock to bury them all.

 

[Labean]

The problem is that parents and kids live on totally different planes of existence. The parents have 24/7 access to substances (like alcohol, cigarettes, and prescription pills), they don't have to answer to anyone but themselves (excluding work), and they can live they lives any way they fucking want. The kids have to constantly appease their parents with perfect grades in school, they have to eat what they're served, they have to go to bed when they're told, and they live under constant threat of punishments for whatever transgression their parents fabricate at any random moment.

If adults/parents had to live the lives kids live, the CTB rate would be through the roof, and gravediggers would working around the clock to bury them all.

I understand that the parents were not children?

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

I understand that the parents were not children?

They were. But it seems like most, if not all, parents forget how miserable kids are the second they whelp one.

That's why nobody takes kids' misery seriously. Since I was 6, I wished there were euthanasia facilities that any kid could visit to be put to sleep. As for parents, they all WOULDN'T LAST A DAY living as kids. They'd all be jumping off bridges, sticking their heads into nooses, and shooting bullets into their heads, if they had to live the tyrannical, powerless lives their kids live.

 

[motel rooms]

"Wonderful World" was sarcasm.

Are you sure? It's hard not to notice that you're fond of making platitudinous pro-life posts.

 

[Labean]

Are you sure? It's hard not to notice that you're fond of making platitudinous pro-life posts.

but

 

[motel rooms]

but

I understand you perfectly well.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

How can so many people on this site be so against breeding and procreation yet also be incredibly harsh to incels. Shouldn't those all be your heroes because they'll never ever have the chance to generate another vessel of suffering even if they wanted to?

When taken to its logical extremes, anti-natalism just becomes genocide at worst and slut-shaming at best. Granted, I don't believe that just anyone could be a competent parent and in fact the majority of them can't control what makes their kid fucked up.

It's like, how do I say that just because your parents were objectively bad doesn't mean everyone's are? And when people say that the majority of parents are evil is that not just narcissistic projecting on their part? This sort of tunnel vision is the same thought pattern that also compels sick people to breed regardless of their actual abilities to parent and is thus part of the problem.

Obviously it's easy to make the choice not to breed if the idea of it doesn't feel good to you but it's like asking the entire world to go meatless. It just won't feel as good to the majority of people even if it's the right thing to do. It's fine to condemn horrible parents, but to fit all people who have ever had the urge to fill a hole or get their hole filled is just silly even if there definitely are people who shouldn't have made this attempt.

I'm not defending or condoning these practices either, I just think that this sort of hateful rhetoric is not only repetitive and unproductive but it actively makes this community look like a bunch of petulant children when we should really focus more on getting them to accept that not everyone is cut out for living. Ironically, the horrible parents who lurk this site are probably eating this shit up and going "see, these suicidal people just complain about their parents like my teen does so they must all just be emo teens who just need a little guidance!" They're wrong of course, but the fact that the normie world is going to agree with them just means that anti-natalist discourse has to do better. We have to show this site has actual adults in it and grow up and out of petty and/or justified spite and maybe focus more on developing ways so that people who do feel robbed of the choice to opt of being born to at least have the freedom to choose death.

I hope I wasn't sounding too harsh and that again, I'm not attempting to trivialize anyone's horrible experience with their parents. My dad was pretty terrible and he should never have had kids but he was just doing what his traditional mindset and genetics was compelling him to do. That said nothing could have prevented him from fucking my mom. He didn't even meet her until his late 30s and he was a total social recluse before then. He shouldn't have met her but he did anyway because even though he hates people he still felt that pull from the very insipid compounds that cause all the suffering in the world. Of course I wish he had just remained a lonely hermit forever and suffered quietly but why act surprised that he didn't want to live that way?

 

[ihatemylife]

Getting a baby means you understand that your kid will suffer guaranteed.
They know it. And they get off on it.
They probably get horny thinking about causing this guaranteed suffering to a innocent soul. At least its not directly killing someone so it doesn't look obvious. It's the sneaky silent way of fucking up another life and enjoying it legally.

Not only life brings sufferings in itself but death is the epitome of suffering.

So we can all agree parents are sadistic murderers? I would even go so far and say parents are worse than child rapers and molesters and all sorts of pedophiles.

Like people don't dwelve in this argument enough.
You are blinded by media and other noise. Parents are dangerous individuals.

agreed

 

[Starryeyes]

 

[blueclover_.]

Some parents know that life is suffering, but they just don't care. Those parents are evil.

Some parents think life is all cookies and rainbows, they are not evil, they are just dumb.

How can so many people on this site be so against breeding and procreation yet also be incredibly harsh to incels. Shouldn't those all be your heroes because they'll never ever have the chance to generate another vessel of suffering even if they wanted to?

When taken to its logical extremes, anti-natalism just becomes genocide at worst and slut-shaming at best. Granted, I don't believe that just anyone could be a competent parent and in fact the majority of them can't control what makes their kid fucked up.

It's like, how do I say that just because your parents were objectively bad doesn't mean everyone's are? And when people say that the majority of parents are evil is that not just narcissistic projecting on their part? This sort of tunnel vision is the same thought pattern that also compels sick people to breed regardless of their actual abilities to parent and is thus part of the problem.

Obviously it's easy to make the choice not to breed if the idea of it doesn't feel good to you but it's like asking the entire world to go meatless. It just won't feel as good to the majority of people even if it's the right thing to do. It's fine to condemn horrible parents, but to fit all people who have ever had the urge to fill a hole or get their hole filled is just silly even if there definitely are people who shouldn't have made this attempt.

I'm not defending or condoning these practices either, I just think that this sort of hateful rhetoric is not only repetitive and unproductive but it actively makes this community look like a bunch of petulant children when we should really focus more on getting them to accept that not everyone is cut out for living. Ironically, the horrible parents who lurk this site are probably eating this shit up and going "see, these suicidal people just complain about their parents like my teen does so they must all just be emo teens who just need a little guidance!" They're wrong of course, but the fact that the normie world is going to agree with them just means that anti-natalist discourse has to do better. We have to show this site has actual adults in it and grow up and out of petty and/or justified spite and maybe focus more on developing ways so that people who do feel robbed of the choice to opt of being born to at least have the freedom to choose death.

I hope I wasn't sounding too harsh and that again, I'm not attempting to trivialize anyone's horrible experience with their parents. My dad was pretty terrible and he should never have had kids but he was just doing what his traditional mindset and genetics was compelling him to do. That said nothing could have prevented him from fucking my mom. He didn't even meet her until his late 30s and he was a total social recluse before then. He shouldn't have met her but he did anyway because even though he hates people he still felt that pull from the very insipid compounds that cause all the suffering in the world. Of course I wish he had just remained a lonely hermit forever and suffered quietly but why act surprised that he didn't want to live that way?

It is the fact that life is the source of suffering, because without consciousness there will be no pain. It is the fact that creating consciousness means creating the ability to feel pain.

Parents are merely a consequence but not the root of this sort of evil. I've said it before and I'll say it again: DNA is the actual root of evil. It's those horrible little proteins that are so hung up on doing whatever they can to optimize their own survival and copy itself as much as possible. Think about it, even if we sterilized and exterminated the entire human population, suffering would still exist in some form.

Even if all humans were gone, a deer will still feel pain if its parents do a shitty job of raising it or leave it to die by dying themselves after getting their flesh and bones crushed by the jaws of some predator. The salmon spends its whole life aimlessly wandering the seas only to make a perilous climb up the rivers where bears are ready to eat them and even if they survive, all they do is lay eggs/jizz all over those eggs and then they die a slow painful death because of how exhausting it all was. I bet if those salmon were given a level of sentience, they'd still mostly make that choice because their dna is telling them that's what they need to do and no amount of posts on a suicide forum are going to convince them. Ffs Even plants feel pain if the sun doesn't shine on them right or some animal peed on them or because some other asshole weed is choking them and depriving them of soil nutrients.

Suffering comes from being alive, yes. But life itself is the one to fully blame because it poisons every species' mind by making them obsessed with continuing to virally spread their genes ergo, your parents. Even if you attempt to break the cycle by refusing to breed, you are merely playing right into DNA's hands by removing your influence from the gene pool anyway so either way we're all still fucked.

I agree. I hate DNAs. They are entirely responsible for evolution, survival, and reproduction instincts.

Anti-natalists are the worst. Not EVERYONE suffers as much as the people on this board, most people have a decent if not good life when all is said and done.

Oh look at this breeder. Take the happiest person in the world and torture them with a chainsaw. That's life, the ability to feel pain, dumbass.

 

[motel rooms]

Biology maybe suggests, but it doesn't dictate. You can override your instinct with your will.

Or you can have all the sex you want & simply use contraception.

When taken to its logical extremes, anti-natalism just becomes genocide at worst and slut-shaming at best.

Ridiculous. Genocide?! Who's getting killed?! Slut shaming? Who says you can't fuck as many people as you want without conceiving a child?

 

[demuic]

How can so many people on this site be so against breeding and procreation yet also be incredibly harsh to incels. Shouldn't those all be your heroes because they'll never ever have the chance to generate another vessel of suffering even if they wanted to?

When taken to its logical extremes, anti-natalism just becomes genocide at worst and slut-shaming at best. Granted, I don't believe that just anyone could be a competent parent and in fact the majority of them can't control what makes their kid fucked up.

It's like, how do I say that just because your parents were objectively bad doesn't mean everyone's are? And when people say that the majority of parents are evil is that not just narcissistic projecting on their part? This sort of tunnel vision is the same thought pattern that also compels sick people to breed regardless of their actual abilities to parent and is thus part of the problem.

Obviously it's easy to make the choice not to breed if the idea of it doesn't feel good to you but it's like asking the entire world to go meatless. It just won't feel as good to the majority of people even if it's the right thing to do. It's fine to condemn horrible parents, but to fit all people who have ever had the urge to fill a hole or get their hole filled is just silly even if there definitely are people who shouldn't have made this attempt.

I'm not defending or condoning these practices either, I just think that this sort of hateful rhetoric is not only repetitive and unproductive but it actively makes this community look like a bunch of petulant children when we should really focus more on getting them to accept that not everyone is cut out for living. Ironically, the horrible parents who lurk this site are probably eating this shit up and going "see, these suicidal people just complain about their parents like my teen does so they must all just be emo teens who just need a little guidance!" They're wrong of course, but the fact that the normie world is going to agree with them just means that anti-natalist discourse has to do better. We have to show this site has actual adults in it and grow up and out of petty and/or justified spite and maybe focus more on developing ways so that people who do feel robbed of the choice to opt of being born to at least have the freedom to choose death.

I hope I wasn't sounding too harsh and that again, I'm not attempting to trivialize anyone's horrible experience with their parents. My dad was pretty terrible and he should never have had kids but he was just doing what his traditional mindset and genetics was compelling him to do. That said nothing could have prevented him from fucking my mom. He didn't even meet her until his late 30s and he was a total social recluse before then. He shouldn't have met her but he did anyway because even though he hates people he still felt that pull from the very insipid compounds that cause all the suffering in the world. Of course I wish he had just remained a lonely hermit forever and suffered quietly but why act surprised that he didn't want to live that way?

How is it genocide to think no one should have kids because life is inherently suffering? And contraception is a thing.. These kinds of comparisons are ridiculous.

My parents were well-intentioned and not as bad as others. I wasn't abused by them. I still think they shouldn't have had kids and no one should.

People define the word evil differently. To me, you can still commit an evil act without necessarily being a totally evil person, and procreation is a completely evil act to me.

I don't care at all what other people think about antinatalism, or whether they think it's childish. The majority of people believe in religion, it's clear there are a lot of things that most people will believe no matter what evidence there is to the contrary.

I think what antinatalists would like is for people to stop acting as if procreation is always a selfless act commuted out of the goodness of a parent's heart for which they should be thanked and praised endlessly. To go with the meatless comparison, I don't see many people acting as if eating meat is some holy and sacred act that should never be criticized. Having a kid is far worse than eating meat.

At the very least all the philosophy of antinatalism asks is that people actually consider what the fuck they're doing before they go on to create a kid. I don't think that's too much to ask.

If anyone has vitriol towards parents, it usually comes from a personal or justified place and they should be allowed to express that. The world at large still refuses to acknowledge the extent of abuses committed by parents and parents and their feelings are constantly coddled and enabled by society. Go literally anywhere else in the world and you will quickly be relieved of this "hateful" rhetoric.

It seems you view this site in a different way to others. I see this place as a way to vent and connect with others who feel the same way. I don't care about converting anyone else to my particular beliefs, especially not normies. This site is full of suicidal people, many of who can barely function, we're not activists trying to change the world. Many people here share their thoughts that would not be accepted anywhere else. Antinatalism will never be accepted because it doesn't make people feel good to know whatever motive they have for wanting kids is completely worthless. In the same way most of the world will never accept that people should be allowed to commit suicide if they want to, there are too many reasons why that doesn't benefit the forces in power.

 

[NormaJeane]

My mother has destroyed many things in my life, she can be kind sometimes, but she is a more evil person and then she should not have had children. Someone who says nasty things to a kind person is mean. Someone who gives her adult daughter only 50 dollars when she has 20 million dollars is stingy. Someone who forces a relative to live even though they know that person is being tortured is mean and in denial of death. People who never have had children have not chosen to exist, but people who have chosen to have children must in some way want life to exist and therefore this situation has arisen.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

It seems you view this site in a different way to others. I see this place as a way to vent and connect with others who feel the same way. I don't care about converting anyone else to my particular beliefs, especially not normies. This site is full of suicidal people, many of who can barely function, we're not activists trying to change the world. Many people here share their thoughts that would not be accepted anywhere else. Antinatalism will never be accepted because it doesn't make people feel good to know whatever motive they have for wanting kids is completely worthless. In the same way most of the world will never accept that people should be allowed to commit suicide if they want to, there are too many reasons why that doesn't benefit the forces in power.

Thank you for this. We all have our reasons why we want to ctb. Many of us resent being born in the first place. I understand that some people had good parents and life still went wrong. Isn't that an argument supporting anti-natalism? Even the best efforts won't protect your child from suffering.

But there are many of us who did not have good childhoods. When you are exposed to constant violence and abuse there is no getting over it. Even if the abuse stops the memories will haunt you forever.

I will never forgive my parents for bringing me into this hell. It is crazy that society automatically sides with the parents, no matter how shitty they are. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Just because you can have kids doesn't mean you should. I think if people had an honest look at themselves they would realize they are unfit to become parents. But of course you can't say this without being attacked from all sides.

 

[mlha]

Or you can have all the sex you want & simply use contraception.

Yeah, that too. I wasn't sure whether wanting a child is instinctual too or not, though.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Getting a baby means you understand that your kid will suffer guaranteed.
They know it. And they get off on it.
They probably get horny thinking about causing this guaranteed suffering to a innocent soul. At least its not directly killing someone so it doesn't look obvious. It's the sneaky silent way of fucking up another life and enjoying it legally.

Not only life brings sufferings in itself but death is the epitome of suffering.

So we can all agree parents are sadistic murderers? I would even go so far and say parents are worse than child rapers and molesters and all sorts of pedophiles.

Like people don't dwelve in this argument enough.
You are blinded by media and other noise. Parents are dangerous individuals.

Never attribute something to malice which can be attributed to incompetence. (most) Parents aren't evil they're just stupid like people tend to be.

They had a male child 1st and wanted a girl. They tried the 2nd time and got me. Then they tried the 3th time and got a female child. I was NEVER EVER wanted, and both "parents" called me "the mistake" to my face, in public, heck everywhere. When I turned 18, I was kicked out and never heard from either "parent" again. When both of them passed on, they left my younger sister a hobby farm and cash and my older brother got over 2 million U.S. dollars and I got ZERO.

See this is unbelievably wrong and cruel.

 

[waterstrider]

Some are inherently bad but most are just brainwashed into thinking this is a good place to exist. So they'll reproduce without putting much thought into it.

 

[motel rooms]

Yeah, that too. I wasn't sure whether wanting a child is instinctual too or not, though.

We have a sexual instinct, but, according to Google, the existence of an instinct for reproduction seems to be a somewhat controversial issue.