Anyone else here due to being an “incel”?

[Ada]

How do I turn off notifications from this thread?

 

[Chinaski]

Yes.

I literally have better things to do than serve up content you've already seen on your ridiculous demand, l mean I'm not going to pretend I'm "busy with current affairs!!!" or any similarly supercilious nonsense but all the same, do it your fucking self.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

I literally have better things to do than serve up content you've already seen on your ridiculous demand, l mean I'm not going to pretend I'm "busy with current affairs!!!" or any similarly supercilious nonsense but all the same, do it your fucking self.

Read the above, I've edited.

 

[Chinaski]

How do I turn off notifications from this thread?

Go to "unwatch" near the top, but don't think you've escaped, there'll be another identikit thread of undersexed anguish before nightfall I'd wager.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

How do I turn off notifications from this thread?

Hit unwatch.

 

[LastFlowers]

^Surface level googling of a rather ridiculous phrase for superiorly ridiculous behavior, but it will suffice.

Just so everyone is aware of what has precisely been occurring in this thread, it's best to ignore an eristic who gets off on this sort of thing-on a pro-choice suicide website, of all places, full of suffering individuals, some of whom have valid experiences and pain derived from beneath the unfortunate umbrella of a term that has been utilized elsewhere with ill-intent (which clearly has baited a specific type of person to cling to it for entertainment and self-serving purposes, seizing the opportunity. Easy pickings).


I ignore this person 90% of the time.
I implore others to do the same.
Unless they want to contribute in a constructive and sincere fashion, which is rare.
It's an endless argument otherwise.

There is a reason I have left most of this thread untouched, the term in the post title apparently invites juvenile behavior displayed under the guise of some pseudo-cerebral rhetoric and an increasingly vacuous (ironic) sense of sarcasm meant to prod into every orifice or perceived weak spot in replies.

In short, it's a game for them, pure and simple, members are pawns, replies are the current stance of opposition in a chess match, the forum is the board.
Look beyond the verbiage and you will see exactly what's happening.
This is far from the first time.

Someone who uses their intellect to antagonize and taunt others and then relentlessly whines about semantics at every corner by merely putting every single word or phrase in quotation marks, when they are very well aware that they are willfully misinterpreting commentary to get a rise out of people..is, quite frankly, a bully.
Nothing more, nothing less.
It's a shame that someone with such a privileged mind uses it for such petty and harmful charades.

This will be all I say on the matter, I'm sure my reply will be a juicy little bite for them to sink their teeth into.
I don't care, I'm not responding further, if anyone here would like to have a beneficial back and forth, I advise circumventing the common denominator.
Of course, anyone is free to do as they please, but imo, this shit has gone on long enough without anything being done about it.

(Even once the site went down, the stranded shark immediately willed itself straight back into the ocean and moved its way toward the shallows off the occupied beach.
It's feeding time, be warned.)

 

[Chinaski]

Disagreeing with obvious bullshit on the public forum is not bullying or trolling fyi.

I will add here that "imploring" other users of this forum ignore another individual, a day after spamming their individual profile page, is imo very playground, clique-mentality stuff and it's quite telling that you disguise this under a perceived victimhood, not for the first time l feel l must make the point that cry-bullying is still bullying.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

it's a big part. I had a hard time admitting that to myself in the past, but now I recognize the importance of human touch, affection, company, high-intensity orgasms and an overall good sex-life for our health.
our culture tends to place less importance on these things, as we are taught to be materialistic, individualistic, independent, money-seeking, power-seeking etc, but no local culture can ever change our innate and ancestral human nature.

 

[BRuss]

Okay so on this basis, what should society do to make "sexually unsuccessful" men feel better about themselves? What measures should society take to to recognise the plight of the undersexed male? To what degree should society prioritise the coddling of the male ego?

Develop sex robots. If sex bots had existed in the 1990s I wouldn't be on this forum today.

 

[Niko66]

Wait, this is ableism now too? Is there anything you unsufferable wetwipes will not try and illegitimately claim from others, jfc.

Short answer is that when soneone is suffering from chronic pain, a debilitating illness, sex is less a priority, to the point of it not even being a consideration amongst the other issues. This is such an obvious point that doesn't even need stating, yet you will persist in pretending that not getting laid is absolutely equal to crippling agony. This nonsense is absolutely pathetic and fully deserving of ridicule.

Sorry but that is wrong. Perhaps if we are talking purely about the act of having sex.
We are social creatures, it's a huge part or our lives. You'd be thinking more of basic physical needs IE someone starving isn't concerned with a romantic partner. Chronic pain, debilitating illnesses if anything do an amazing job at making you feel like less of a person, including not being able to hold relationships being one of the biggest ones.

In experiments rats would resist falling into a dopamine addiction if they were in a socially thriving space whereas they'd fail every time alone. Things are more nuanced than being argued, no problem comes on its own.

Idk point being, I don't see the point of comparing suffering and invalidating others, this is some typical shit you'd see outside this place. Like "oh you aren't even ____ how can you complain?" Maybe I've missed your point in the thread too as I only skimmed it but it seems to be summed up to thinking people should get less empathy if they are suffering for a particular reason or "make sure" incels know their issues aren't a big deal and should stop complaining like us real suicidal people with real issues.

Makes sense to me to keep the forum from being hateful and misogynistic but that's none of the intent I see with the back and forth antagonizing you guys got going.

 

[whatevs]

Someone who uses their intellect to antagonize and taunt others and then relentlessly whines about semantics at every corner by merely putting every single word or phrase in quotation marks, when they are very well aware that they are willfully misinterpreting commentary to get a rise out of people..is, quite frankly, a bully.
Nothing more, nothing less.It's a shame that someone with such a privileged mind uses it for such petty and harmful charades.

High verbal IQ is all that bully has going for him, as per how he was handled in this thread it was done skillfully and might help into exasperating this nasty person disguised as thoughtful and learned into showing more crudely his bannable nature.

 

[Chinaski]

High verbal IQ is all that bully has going for him, as per how he was handled in this thread it was done skillfully and might help into exasperating this nasty person disguised as thoughtful and learned into showing more crudely his bannable nature.

Yeah you don't know me and can't assess what l have "going for" me but you've been smarting ever since you pulled out your murder stats to make a sexist point and got pulled up, you've been doing the pass-agg faving and snarking in threads where you think l wouldn't notice ever since, you've only reared your head now you think there's a mob you can join and whilst misogo knuckleheads are definitely a dominant voice on here, don't presume you can petition for the banning of a member just because your foghorn voices are the loudest in the room.

Sorry but that is wrong. Perhaps if we are talking purely about the act of having sex.
We are social creatures, it's a huge part or our lives. You'd be thinking more of basic physical needs IE someone starving isn't concerned with a romantic partner. Chronic pain, debilitating illnesses if anything do an amazing job at making you feel like less of a person, including not being able to hold relationships being one of the biggest ones.

This is a breathtakingly poor position to take, every time one of you does this you send a message to those on here who struggle with absolutely debilitating, agonising, life-ruining conditions that their suffering is equal to celibacy. If that's the position of the forum then fair enough but folk who do this should also cease the fucking whining about "empathy" from those who aren't bellicose incels, because this false equivalence is an obvious reason why it may be in very short supply.

 

[Midgardsorm]

For a place created with the purpose of welcoming people suffering from all kinds of mental and physical illnesses and mainly to give them control of their lives, I see created here, a heated discussion about who suffers more, who suffers less and, contrary to the forum rules, who has the right to be is or is not suffering.

Trying to classify who suffers and not who suffers is precisely the reason that leads this place to have so many access.

I am completely disappointed to see that such a "suffering scale", a "pain-meter" exists even here.

I will no locked the thread. That will be almost like censoring. - I will lock if this discussion goes out of hand as it already happened thousand times.
However I need to warn people that this places was exists due a lot of reasons but one the one and most important reason is because most of us do not fit the criteria of another forum created with the very first purpose. Also adding that same forum was created because most of users, here and there do not fit the criteria for assisted suicide.

Speaking not only of suicide, I've seen users being denied of help because they "do not fit the criteria" to receive even the most basic things that would ease their suffering and allow them to have a whatever productive life society wants them to have.

Usually I refrain myself from posting nowadays due to some things, but I felt the need to say this.

I will remind that, even if is not written in the rules, a level of empathy is welcomed...

 

[YourNeighbor]

I will remind that, even if is not written in the rules, a level of empathy is welcomed...

No gaslighting please, "incels" are a hateful and even violent group, despite the "not all incels" pleas some post here. There has been more than one mass shooting in the US carried out by self-styled incels targeting women. The incel conversations here reflect a rape culture approach to women (see above, referencing sex as something "for the taking" or talking about women as "slam-pieces" in another thread).

No one is arguing that loneliness and isolation are invalid forms of suffering or can drive people to suicidality. That is different from the point that the hate and entitlement embraced by "incels," masked with a posturing of victimhood, is toxic.

Tolerance does not require acceptance of hate groups, though many openly misogynist and neo-Nazi profiles are apparently welcome here for some reason. You want a tolerant forum? Stop welcoming hate.

 

[Chinaski]

Trying to classify who suffers and not who suffers is precisely the reason that leads this place to have so many access.

I am completely disappointed to see that such a "suffering scale", a "pain-meter" exists even here.

A more timely intervention would have been at the point where it was put forward that access to MAID for celibate men should be prioritised, or the absolutely offensive equivalence drawn between male celibacy and actual paraplegia, or on the numerous other instances in this thread, or across this forum as a whole, where men who can't get sex were insisting their own perceived victimhood and persecution warrants elevation above the suffering of all others. It's quite telling imo that you use language which suggests you are not picking a side whilst speaking of empathy and compassion but l find this a tad dishonest when it's quite apparent by the timing alone as to where your lines are drawn.

We don't welcome hate. I deleted a few comments here because of hate.

It seems a word is carrying so much bad stigma due to some people that refers themselves as such did horrible things.

This happened before, years ago. Movements were created to state the difference between that the person who is/suffers from A-thing and because of it killed ten thousands and another who also is/suffers from A-thing and will pay the price for the first person's horrible misdeed even though they done nothing.

We actually had a filter for the word "incel", we receive a notification so we can either approve to be posted or not, it has been taken away now but it was created exactly to prevent the hate-speech you are referring to as the word carries such a bad stigma.

I see a pattern that here, just by looking at the past. Luckily we live in modern times ...

I just wanted to state that. I already regret.

I must make clear here that I've been critical of individual incel output in this thread in direct relation to that output, this has not been motivated by the negative connotations of the word "incel" and my remarks would have been the same in reply to similar output had this word not existed.

I don't talk about my own situation, l don't reveal the reasons why I'm here in public, obviously it's nobody's business - but l dare say some of the comments made about me as an individual fail to take into account that l too suffer a great deal. I do not seek empathy from users on this forum in relation to it because frankly it's of no fucking use, but it's quite telling how this is not taken into any consideration by those who demand empathy at all times in return. It's similarly telling how empathy is withheld from those who find an avi of a misogynistic murderer to be triggering, or find objectifying descriptors of women to be offensive.

I agree with you that empathy on this forum is frequently lacking, however l feel you're viewing entirely through the wrong prism.

 

[Toxic Positivity]

Yeah you don't know me and can't assess what l have "going for" me but

you DO get it

 

[Ethereal Knight]

No gaslighting please, "incels" are a hateful and even violent group, despite the "not all incels" pleas some post here. There has been more than one mass shooting in the US carried out by self-styled incels targeting women. The incel conversations here reflect a rape culture approach to women (see above, referencing sex as something "for the taking" or talking about women as "slam-pieces" in another thread).

what are you even saying? incel only means involuntary celebacy. it's when someone doesn't have the option to have sex.
this is not a movement or an ideology.

"Calling involuntary celibates a movement is like calling poor people a movement or ideology. To elaborate, 'pauperdom' is the state of being poor. This term is to poor people, what inceldom is to incels. Both are life situations, the terms' incel' and 'pauper' denote a person affected by these things. Most people would widely agree that poor people aren't a movement, nor is there a specific ideology that which they adhere. Likewise, incels and inceldom are the same in that respect."

 

[Al Cappella]

From Wiki:

" An incel (/ˈɪnsɛl/ IN-sel, an abbreviation of "involuntary celibate"[1]) is a member of an online subculture of people who define themselves as unable to get a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one.[2][3][4] Discussions in incel forums are often characterized by resentment and hatred, misogyny, misanthropy, self-pity and self-loathing, racism, a sense of entitlement to sex, and the endorsement of violence against women and sexually active people.[16] The American Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) described the subculture as "part of the online male supremacist ecosystem" that is included in their list of hate groups.[17][18] Incels are mostly male and heterosexual,[12][14][19] and are often white.[20][21][22][23][24] Estimates of the overall size of the subculture vary greatly, ranging from thousands to hundreds of thousands of individuals.[25][26]"

Add to that at least 8 mass-murders by ppl identifying with this and you can see why folks might not be persuaded by an argument that it's just a word, etc…

 

[Dot]

 

[Gsvko]

@Chinaski, I believe that the claim Dr made that bothered you was made purely out of self-hatred.
No idea what you're going through. I appreciate your posts.
This is all so very frustrating.

 

[...]

appreciate he's been unbanned but it doesn't reverse how totally disgusting this place is tbh. this comment on the now locked thread sums it "Labeling an argument "ridiculous" is a banable offense? What if the argument is in fact ridiculous? You don't ban members labeling women "slam-pieces" or talking about sex as something "for the taking," i.e. rape, but calling an argument "ridiculous" leads to a ban? That is inappropriate, and seems like moderation based on viewpoint, not any terms or rules." - by @YourNeighbor

at best this place naively sympathises with misogynists by saying shit like "incels just a word" or as this recent example shows the active policing around it and other things in comparison allows it to happen

 

[odradek]

Why identify as an incel or anything cel? What a strange hill to die on. Why not just say you're lonely? Sorry I don't understand. I'm celibate, yet I would never self identify with the term in question. It's unquestionably linked with misogyny in the zeitgeist (in reality and online, sometimes violent) regardless of etymology or the nicest ones who identify as such. That ship has sailed. The "involuntary" aspect is also a bit creep too, but I don't want to digress too much. The problem is the misogyny inherently associated with the word. This thread is wild.

I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's suffering or engage in comparison of pain but come on, incel is not it...

 

[Interloper]

You don't ban members labeling women "slam-pieces"

Slam-piece guy was banned a while ago.

 

[hb1993]

There is no scientific way of measuring "suffering", but there is no truly scientific way of measuring physical pain. Even pain clinicians are left with the fundamentally blunt tool of patient self reporting on a scale of one to ten with an aim of reducing the starting number, whilst also acknowledging that the starting number is still not an accurate measurement of pain in itself. There are different types of pain (migraine is as debilitating as severe toothache), different sensations (sharp/dull, hot/cold, piercing, throbbing, lancinating), and a completely different experience of pain from one individual to another. However, it can be agreed that all of these people are in pain. The individual suffering pain does not care for the fact that other people have experienced a worse degree of pain if the pain they are currently experiencing is the worst pain they've yet to experience and it is ruining their ability to live a full life. To that individual, a hierarchy of pain, or a measuring on a ten point scale, is irrelevant - it's a binary issue, they see it purely as a case of being in pain versus not being in pain.

All of that taken into consideration, even the person in that pain will recognise that there are yet more severe experiences of pain. A man with a seriously crippling and urgent toothache will pull his own teeth out if necessary to obtain relief, but will still realise that a person who is *on fire* also has an urgent need, is very probably suffering pain of a different type but of greater intensity, and will not go to that individual to demand Muh Empathy because he's not a total clown and he realises on human instinct alone that to draw an equation between his toothache and *literally being on fire* would be totally ridiculous.

Now we're not talking about pain in this thread, we're talking about men not getting much sex, with its recurring demand for empathy and understanding from those whose difficulties are routinely dismissed and diminished within incel threads, as we've seen here. You really don't need to establish a scientific method of establishing severity of suffering to state the obvious fact that celibacy is not as bad as chronic pain or paraplegia, nor is it in itself a form of persecution against an oppressed and marginalised group. This shit is warped, and the notion that all human suffering should be accepted as equal is a nonsense that literally no right thinking person would subscribe to.

Suppose that person A experiences chronic pain on a daily basis. And suppose that person B experiences social isolation and loneliness. Person A is a family man, has a wife and children, has a purpose, and despite his pain, does not contemplate suicide. Person B has no family, no wife and kids, no purpose, and despite not being in physical pain, contemplates suicide every day. Does person A or B suffer more? Does physical pain necessarily equate to mental suffering? My point is not that all human suffering is equal. Rather, my point is precisely that all human suffering is not equal. I do wonder sometimes how much of the incel "men are entitled to sex" is really just a misguided (and yes, warped) longing for a deeper connection with another human being. Are self-described incels simply just socially isolated and lonely? If so, is it not possible that they might be suffering more than some people who have chronic pain?

 

[𖣴 nadia 𖣴]

Slam-piece guy was banned a while ago.

Yes, but not for that reason.

 

[YourNeighbor]

appreciate he's been unbanned but it doesn't reverse how totally disgusting this place is tbh. this comment on the now locked thread sums it "Labeling an argument "ridiculous" is a banable offense? What if the argument is in fact ridiculous? You don't ban members labeling women "slam-pieces" or talking about sex as something "for the taking," i.e. rape, but calling an argument "ridiculous" leads to a ban? That is inappropriate, and seems like moderation based on viewpoint, not any terms or rules." - by @YourNeighbor

at best this place naively sympathises with misogynists by saying shit like "incels just a word" or as this recent example shows the active policing around it and other things in comparison allows it to happen

I agree, and that this site tolerates a lot of hate, especially against women, but I do respect the mod was willing to correct at least that mistake. Not everyone is able to correct their wrongs.

 

[RainAndSadness]

All members that follow the rules are welcome to participiate in this place, regardless of their political or ideological affiliation. Period. I implore the comunity to respect that. The person that has opened this thread hasn't said anything controversial either and I have no clue why this thread is about the validity and implication of inceldom all of a sudden when this wasn't the initial topic. There is a lot of judgement towards OP in this thread. I have made very clear that this forum has nothing to do with inceldom in the past but this place also doesn't exclude them on principle. They suffer and therefore have a right to express that in this forum and participate like any other member. Thanks for your understanding.

EDIT:

Sorry l didn't realise that incel threads were an incel-only zone where non-incel participation was forbidden unless you were willing to unreservedly sympathise with the oppressed incel "community" , however this was kind of an easy mistake to make given this is not a specifically incel site and anyone wishing to surround themselves exclusively with incel-positive interaction could quite easily find such a website for that purpose.

I disagree strongly. Let me explain why. Incels - especially those that don't hold any hateful or derogatory views - won't want to be active on mainstream incel sites due to the hatred and bigotry that's normalized over there. So giving them a space here, in this forum, as long as they follow the rules, is beneficial for everyone because it also prevent them from further radicalisation and it gives them a place to share their struggles without the judgement they would receive in other places. And that's what this forum is about.