RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
2,144
Hello everyone.

In the last 2.5 years there have been constant rumors and claims that drinking N has a high chance of vomiting. It's a wide spread concern and I understand why. Nobody wants to fail an attempt with N due to a simple thing like puking. But this has also lead to fear mongering about this rather reliable and peaceful method, some people decide to go with SN instead and it also resulted in alternative administration methods of N that aren't as safe - such as rectal administration of said substance. I don't recommend that.

But this risk of vomiting after drinking N is extremely overblown and to prove that, I'll link a snippet of a live-stream from Philip Nitzschke, from back in Spring 2018. He already addressed these concerns and explained why they're valid but don't make much sense. The reason why Exit International recommends taking anti-emetics (and I guess that's the reason why everyone is so worried about puking) before drinking N is because there are plenty of people that want to end their life due to old age or terminal illness. That's the main audience of their organization. And there are many diseases where nausea is part of the condition or the treatment, such as chemotherapy (for example as treatment for cancer). That's why they recommend taking anti-emetics prior to drinking N. It's a necessary and logical safety measure if you're in such a circumstance. But if you're young, healthy and don't suffer from such diseases, leaving via N should be rather easy from a technical perspective. The risk that you will vomit is extremely small and I'm not aware of any credible stories that resulted in a failed attempt due to vomiting.

I'm currently taking drugs to treat rheumatoid arthritis, such as methodrexat and this drug has nausea as a side effect, therefore it would make sense for me to take the anti-emetics, despite my young age of 26. The substance itself isn't that gruesome or disgusting that its consumption alone would cause puking. But Exit International generally recommends everyone to take anti-emetics prior to drinking N not because it's absolutely necessary to succeed your attempt but simply as a safety measure. It simply doesn't harm to take some anti-emetics if you're drinking a +600 dollar substance anyway.

That's my interpretation of this live-stream, here is the link. I hope this settles this question once and for all. If you have N, you're in possession of the most reliable, peaceful method that is out there, that's a fact - and if you want to end your life, you should take it the proper way, that means oral. Every single euthanasia organization in this world is doing it this way with a 0% failure rate, as far as I know. Read the resources and follow the instructions according to the PPH and you'll have a peaceful and reliable exit.

 
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G

Goodbye710

Student
Jul 12, 2020
163
I'm curious why you think the enema route is not as safe? Is it for obvious reasons like not doing the enema properly and such or was there another reason? Thank you.
 
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A

Aap

Enlightened
Apr 26, 2020
1,856
Go back and read the thread from a few days ago. The arguments against are very clear. There is a reason that NO state, organization, or country that assists or allows physician assisted suicide even considers rectal administration a possibility. It is an absolutely terrible idea, far more prone to failure than oral administration.

again, there is a reason NOT ONE of these organizations view it as even a possible alternative.
 
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Manford

Manford

Student
Dec 7, 2020
127
That's reassuring because I read a post a few days ago where somebody said he failed his attempt and thought he vomited. He said he didn't know how much he took though and was, of course, found by someone. I don't have GI issues but got some meto just to be sure.
 
A

Aap

Enlightened
Apr 26, 2020
1,856
Thinks he vomited, doesn't even know how much consumed, and was found? Read that again...
 
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Manford

Manford

Student
Dec 7, 2020
127
Thinks he vomited, doesn't even know how much consumed, and was found? Read that again...
I guess I misread it. He said he did vomit but thinks it was because he took the anti-emetic too late. He then woke up in the ICU on a ventilator. It's in this thread:https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...sonal-experiences-welcome.57492/#post-1058288

It's about 1/2 way down the first page thes.
 
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ScienceIsScary

ScienceIsScary

Tim of Suicide and Recovery
Feb 15, 2020
18
This section from page 77 of Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death seems to support that vomiting is not usually a problem with pentobarbital:

"An anti-emetic, metoclopramide, was taken by 39 out of the 60 cases during the 24 hours preceding the planned time for self-deliverance (every 6-8 hours a 10 mg tablet or 20 mg suppository). None of them vomited."

"Vomiting was reported in 2 of the 21 cases without metoclopramide, but in spite of this the patient died."

It also warns against rectal administration:

"Horikx warns that the absorption of barbiturates given by suppository is very unpredictable, especially so in terminal patients. In the recently updated guidelines of the Royal Dutch Pharmaceutical Society (2006), the use of suppositories for assisted suicide is strongly discouraged."
 
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TerminallyAlive

TerminallyAlive

Member
Oct 7, 2020
58
I vomited after consuming meto and N, but I had been drinking alcohol. Nonetheless, I had quit breathing before intervention arrived.
 
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Captive of Mind

Captive of Mind

Memento mori
Aug 11, 2020
409
I vomited after consuming meto and N, but I had been drinking alcohol. Nonetheless, I had quit breathing before intervention arrived.
Sorry to hear about this.. How long were you out for? How much N did you consume and was it powder?
 
C

camus44

Member
Jul 12, 2020
33
This is really helpful – thank you.

Still think I'll investigate metoclopramide. Anyone know a source for this in the UK – apart from spinning your doctor a story???

Thanks
 
TerminallyAlive

TerminallyAlive

Member
Oct 7, 2020
58
Sorry to hear about this.. How long were you out for? How much N did you consume and was it powder?
A few days on a respirator. It was liquid from A, but bought years before A started being so shady.
 
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pen

pen

it's A non Getting Down socializing situation
Dec 25, 2020
122
I'll take cholorpromazine to fight the serotonin syndrome from the propanol adverse effects and scopolamine.

by the way, I'll use SN
 
Captive of Mind

Captive of Mind

Memento mori
Aug 11, 2020
409
A few days on a respirator. It was liquid from A, but bought years before A started being so shady.
Oh wow, that would be so crazy to have happen. How long were you out before you were found?
 
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C

camus44

Member
Jul 12, 2020
33
I'll take cholorpromazine to fight the serotonin syndrome from the propanol adverse effects and scopolamine.

by the way, I'll use SN

Wow – where are you sourcing scopolamine from?? if you don't mind me asking.
 
RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
2,144
This section from page 77 of Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death seems to support that vomiting is not usually a problem with pentobarbital:

"An anti-emetic, metoclopramide, was taken by 39 out of the 60 cases during the 24 hours preceding the planned time for self-deliverance (every 6-8 hours a 10 mg tablet or 20 mg suppository). None of them vomited."

"Vomiting was reported in 2 of the 21 cases without metoclopramide, but in spite of this the patient died."

It also warns against rectal administration:

"Horikx warns that the absorption of barbiturates given by suppository is very unpredictable, especially so in terminal patients. In the recently updated guidelines of the Royal Dutch Pharmaceutical Society (2006), the use of suppositories for assisted suicide is strongly discouraged."

Thanks, that helps a lot and is quite an important addition to my initial post!
 
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Busdriver

Busdriver

Mage
Feb 11, 2020
513
A few days on a respirator. It was liquid from A, but bought years before A started being so shady.
N comes in different forms. A's is meant for injection, C's is powdered and not pure, N from euthanasia organisations is meant for drinking and they have N to be injected.

The question is to what extent each of these different types of N require antiemetics.
Maybe for A's veterinary injectable N an antiemetic is more recommended than for the N of euthanasia organisations?
 
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J

Johnjohn1

Student
Nov 7, 2020
194
I didn't realize nembutal from A was strictly meant for injection. I thought it was for drinking orally?? Can everybody please provide feedback?
 
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Busdriver

Busdriver

Mage
Feb 11, 2020
513
It is meant for injection in animals, but you can drink it too.
 
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Meretlein

Meretlein

Moderator
Feb 15, 2019
1,199
I didn't realize nembutal from A was strictly meant for injection. I thought it was for drinking orally?? Can everybody please provide feedback?

For ctb it is meant to be consumed orally. A sells pisabental which is used to put animals under anesthesia through an injection.
 
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Johnjohn1

Student
Nov 7, 2020
194
I'm still a little bit confused. Do you mean that the nembutal from A is meant to be consumed orally??
 
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Deleted member 94

Deleted member 94

Wizard
Mar 24, 2018
696
Hello everyone.

In the last 2.5 years there have been constant rumors and claims that drinking N has a high chance of vomiting. It's a wide spread concern and I understand why. Nobody wants to fail an attempt with N due to a simple thing like puking. But this has also lead to fear mongering about this rather reliable and peaceful method, some people decide to go with SN instead and it also resulted in alternative administration methods of N that aren't as safe - such as rectal administration of said substance. I don't recommend that.

But this risk of vomiting after drinking N is extremely overblown and to prove that, I'll link a snippet of a live-stream from Philip Nitzschke, from back in Spring 2018. He already addressed these concerns and explained why they're valid but don't make much sense. The reason why Exit International recommends taking anti-emetics (and I guess that's the reason why everyone is so worried about puking) before drinking N is because there are plenty of people that want to end their life due to old age or terminal illness. That's the main audience of their organization. And there are many diseases where nausea is part of the condition or the treatment, such as chemotherapy (for example as treatment for cancer). That's why they recommend taking anti-emetics prior to drinking N. It's a necessary and logical safety measure if you're in such a circumstance. But if you're young, healthy and don't suffer from such diseases, leaving via N should be rather easy from a technical perspective. The risk that you will vomit is extremely small and I'm not aware of any credible stories that resulted in a failed attempt due to vomiting.

I'm currently taking drugs to treat rheumatoid arthritis, such as methodrexat and this drug has nausea as a side effect, therefore it would make sense for me to take the anti-emetics, despite my young age of 26. The substance itself isn't that gruesome or disgusting that its consumption alone would cause puking. But Exit International generally recommends everyone to take anti-emetics prior to drinking N not because it's absolutely necessary to succeed your attempt but simply as a safety measure. It simply doesn't harm to take some anti-emetics if you're drinking a +600 dollar substance anyway.

That's my interpretation of this live-stream, here is the link. I hope this settles this question once and for all. If you have N, you're in possession of the most reliable, peaceful method that is out there, that's a fact - and if you want to end your life, you should take it the proper way, that means oral. Every single euthanasia organization in this world is doing it this way with a 0% failure rate, as far as I know. Read the resources and follow the instructions according to the PPH and you'll have a peaceful and reliable exit.




I would like to counter argument based on experience not with n which is moderate acting barbiturate but with thiopental which is fast acting barbiturate. It was my first attempt after procurement of the product on trip abroad. I didn't know about antiemetic then so tried to drink it the body straight away expelled it and I vomitted. The reason why dignitas or any other organizations use antiemetic is for this reason in my opinion and had very little to do with the taste. I wasn't old at the time still young nothing like chemotherapy either. When the old topix forum thread was active where n from China took off back in 2011 everybody getting their powder were also advised to get an antiemetic by a pharmacist user.
 
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L

lostmyhope

Member
Dec 28, 2020
42
I'm still a little bit confused. Do you mean that the nembutal from A is meant to be consumed orally??
The manufacturers intended it for injection, but it does work orally. If you tried to inject it you would pass out before administering a lethal dose because of how quickly it works.
 
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J

Johnjohn1

Student
Nov 7, 2020
194
Okay thank you for clarifying. I'm so scared of failing and ending up in a psych ward or a hospital with a bunch of ventilators. Do you really think two vials is nembutal from a is sufficient? It doesn't seem like a ton of liquid to drink. Maybe about a half of a can of soda. Thank you so much.


M
 
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Busdriver

Busdriver

Mage
Feb 11, 2020
513
Okay thank you for clarifying. I'm so scared of failing and ending up in a psych ward or a hospital with a bunch of ventilators. Do you really think two vials is nembutal from a is sufficient? It doesn't seem like a ton of liquid to drink. Maybe about a half of a can of soda. Thank you so much.


M
6g of N for a lot of people proved to be enough, so 6,5 * 2 = 13 is more than enough to do the job.

You can be assured to CTB successfully.

If you make arrangements for not being found quickly, you have a 200% chance ticket straight to heaven.
 
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angie

angie

need to exit
May 25, 2018
480
I would like to counter argument based on experience not with n which is moderate acting barbiturate but with thiopental which is fast acting barbiturate. It was my first attempt after procurement of the product on trip abroad. I didn't know about antiemetic then so tried to drink it the body straight away expelled it and I vomitted. The reason why dignitas or any other organizations use antiemetic is for this reason in my opinion and had very little to do with the taste. I wasn't old at the time still young nothing like chemotherapy either. When the old topix forum thread was active where n from China took off back in 2011 everybody getting their powder were also advised to get an antiemetic by a pharmacist user.
what did it taste like can you describe it ? thanks angie
 
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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
2,144
I've reuploaded the video to Vimeo because Youtube didn't like educational suicide talk and removed it. This thread remains very important due to recent discussions about the risks of puking and failure of ones attempt after ingesting N.
 
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T

toforigivelife

Arcanist
Jul 5, 2021
493
I've reuploaded the video to Vimeo because Youtube didn't like educational suicide talk and removed it. This thread remains very important due to recent discussions about the risks of puking and failure of ones attempt after ingesting N.
From what I understand you stand a better chance if you do it on an empty stomach, take Dramamine, give the Dramamine, which produces a sedative effect, an hour to work and then do it.
 
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sully

sully

Experienced
Jul 27, 2021
231
Honestly, that's the only reason I didn't do it yet. I'm scared as fuck of vomiting N. And I've came across some thread (not on ss) where a guy was saying that without meto the chance of vomiting is "extremely high". Fuck. I don't know.

i hate myself for not being able to do it.
 
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A

Aap

Enlightened
Apr 26, 2020
1,856
The risk is definitively NOT "extremely high."
 
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