Abortion and Suicide

[A350-1000]

I've had this thought for quite some time about abortion and suicide rights. I'm wondering why 1 is thought of as acceptable and the other frowned upon.

They both essentially feature the same change - 1 life lost.

I just want to start a discussion as to your thoughts on this, I'm aware I'll probably get some new information which I may have overlooked and I'm fine with that, as long as it's not too rude.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Abortion isn't thought of as being acceptable by some. It's more accepted than suicide, but it's also more heavily stigmatized in some ways.

Anyways, more people tend to be more accepting of abortions since it's seen as preventing the future suffering of both the unborn and the pregnant person. Unlike suicide, which is seen as something that results from mental illnesses that could be treated and managed. Of course, suicide is a much more complex issue than this, but the general public tends to simplify down to just needing a bit of therapy.

Along with that, a fetus isn't likely conscious until sometime around the 3rd trimester, since the areas of the brain associated with consciousness, such as the thalamus, haven't reached that stage in development yet. When you get an abortion, except for late-term abortions which are usually only given under very specific circumstances, you aren't killing off a conscious being. The same generally cannot be argued when it comes to suicide. Along with that, personhood is usually only seen as something granted to those who are born, with it involving you having to be your own separate entity. As a result, fetuses aren't seen as persons, which also tries into why it is easier to accept abortions over suicide. When some thing of a fetus, especially in their earlier stages of development, they may think this



Suicide also tends to hurt others more since it involves the death of someone you grew to connect with personally. While abortion can hurt and can be traumatic, especially for the carrier, it's not like it comes with the sort of pain of having all sorts of memories of someone and knowing that you'll never get to hear their laugh, see their smile, listen to their voice, hug them, kiss them, and more, ever again. All you have when you get an abortion are mostly "what ifs". This makes abortion a lot easier to digest for many.

 

[Forever Sleep]

In both scenarios- the parents or would-be parents want all the control. Someone pregnant who doesn't want to be burdened with a child (although, there are of course other reasons) wants the right to get rid of it. Parents who have children of whatever age don't want to go through the trauma of losing them.

I think it usually is parents who make the strongest protest against suicide. I think it's reasonable to make the argument that parents/ would be parents want to have control over their own lives which includes having control over their children's or would- be children's lives. So, in effect- it's their right to choose that is being protected here. The right not to have children- even if they happen to become pregnant and the right to spare them from bereavement if their children are so unhappy that they want to kill themselves.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

"More acceptable" is debatable.

Clearly to many anti-choicers, they do not care about actual lives, just the idea of "babies being innocent and sacred." A lot of this comes down to religion. On top of that, MOST anti-choicers actually just enjoy the control they have over these people, and use the last thing I said as an excuse to hide that fact. They allow 13 year assault victims to give birth just to have a premature, likely disabled baby afterwards.

In this way, their hatred for suicide AND abortion isn't about taboo, but CONTROL. They control who lives, who dies, who suffers, what is "worth it."

As for those who are pro-choice, the idea is that a fetus is more POTENTIAL life than life itself. Yes, it is technically living, but no pro-choicers will encourage abortions on extremely developed fetuses unless said baby will not survive long term (ancephaly I think was the term for a common situation where that happens?).

Fetuses are living, sure, but they lack the ability to live freely without the uterus they reside in. Even while in this uterus, many fail to thrive, or the umbilical cord gets wrapped around their neck. The person who would have to give birth to them is already living freely, but may LOSE the ability to if disabled or killed by the birthing process. You can go blind, deaf, my own mother got heart failure from my pregnancy.

The idea is... why take someone's freedom to live just to give it to a fetus that already might lose it whether it's aborted or not? And even if said fetus stays healthy the whole time, is it worth it to sacrifice the birthgiver's mental/physical health for that (not to mention what happens to the baby AFTER).

This is how this ties into suicide. Pro-choicers value life. Life that is often seen by them (ironically) in a black and white way. They can't see the hypocrisy behind it.

I've always said, I don't like the idea of abortion, but it's currently the only option that spares both the birthgiver AND the potential baby suffering (especially with the adoption system how it is).

It's the same with suicide. With how fucked up our mental and physical health system is, in some places people literally cannot get help and healing. It's just impossible. Asking them to wait is like asking a person with an incurable disease to wait to see if scientists will find a cure. The person suffers in the meantime as cures aren't created fast enough. The mental/physical health system cannot be fixed fast enough to help some people in places that have next to no access.

Why make them sit and die slowly? Why make them suffer? Why make them take their life in a horrifically unplanned and gruesome way just because no one will help them live OR die?

 

[420Jack]

As others have said in many more words. Those who are pro choice don't generally see an unborn child as a life lost as they don't feel it is yet it's own life.

There may be different reasonings such as the it's not conscious yet as one member explained. I've heard others say it's because it can't yet be alive on its own outside the womb. And on the SUPER FAR END there are some who believe infanticide is morally okay as it's not until idk a few years into life before the child has a sense of tomorrow. I've seen it argued before that for that reason cows should have more of a right to life than an infant.