"A cry for help"/"no one wants to die"

[Felodese]

Rant because I came across this:



It's nothing new, but I these statements annoy me to no end.
The way people insist that we who are suicidal don't acctually want to die - we just don't understand that we don't.
I find this attitude patronizing and infantilizing. Suicidal people are just wanting attention and "crying for help" and have no intention of killing ourselves when we try to ctb.
I mean, what part of a suicide is it that says "I really want to live"? Why is it so har to understand that some of us acctually do want to die? And in what way is wanting to stop the pain not wanting to die, when death is the only way of doing so?


Ugh, fuck people...

 

[dreamcatcher90]

I agree with it a bit, to be honest.
There's a difference between raging teenagers and terminally ill people.

 

[eden101]

well. If I could stop all my pain without dying. I would

 

[pulleditnearlyoff]

Of you would feel content and happy and really good every day, I don't think there's a reason for wanting to die. We want to die because we don't feel well in any sort of way. I think that's what they mean.

 

[Arahant]

Fuck people very hard indeed.

I don't think these infographic making mental health wankers are bad people, I just think they don't know what they are talking about a lot of the time.
The average talk therapist has never encountered a problem in their personal life that they could not solve by sitting down, connecting and talking it through with some supportive, empathic person.

They have never had to experience the utter despair of doing everything right, still suffering, and the "health"care system having zero options left.

 

[banger12]

Rant because I came across this:

View attachment 147626

It's nothing new, but I these statements annoy me to no end.
The way people insist that we who are suicidal don't acctually want to die - we just don't understand that we don't.
I find this attitude patronizing and infantilizing. Suicidal people are just wanting attention and "crying for help" and have no intention of killing ourselves when we try to ctb.
I mean, what part of a suicide is it that says "I really want to live"? Why is it so har to understand that some of us acctually do want to die? And in what way is wanting to stop the pain not wanting to die, when death is the only way of doing so?


Ugh, fuck people...

For some people the statement is true but for the most part it's obviously a very insulting thing to say and it's completely disconnected from reality. I suspect it comes from two sources:

1. For some I think it's just too uncomfortable to try to understand that something that is so sad to them and contrary to their own thoughts, feelings and behaviors could be true l

OR

2. Manipulative propoganda on the part of people engaged in "suicide prevention" to justify how the mentally ill as well as people who attempt to CTB are treated

Either way it's one of the many mind numbing, unthinking clichés that are presented to obstruct, or justify obstructing, choice on the matter. Aaying/using it often betrays an unwillingness to grapple with the actual complexity of why people CTB and whether they should be permitted to. Invoking statements like this often serve to terminate thought on the subject as well as prevent any engagement with the reasons some of us wish to CTB.

It also just takes for granted that it's a "phase" of some sorts that can invariably eventually be "grown out of" or overcome, which don't get me wrong, for a chunk of people that's likely true, but certainly for many it's plainly false. So as angry and mean spirited as this little rant sounds I hope that something useful can be found within. I agree with you that it's a shitty thing for people to say.

 

[nihilistic_dragon]

Most people just don't seem to understand that some simply have no interest in remaining on this stupid planet. And that it can a be a logical decision, not just a spur of the moment emotional thing.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

"Not actually wanting to die" - I'm pretty sure if problems that led to the fact that someone only sees suicide as the last resort and the escape from all agony and suffering would have been solved earlier in their lives they wouldn't be suicidal or much less. But the problem is that all the issues (incl. health) often cannot be solved anymore.

 

[banger12]

I agree with it a bit, to be honest.
There's a difference between raging teenagers and terminally ill people.

I mean yeah, hypothetically you're correct, and the statements are all worded in non-commital and non-universal terminology, but there are two important points to consider when looking at this piece of media and evaluating its claims and value:

1. What are the proportions of people who fit into each?

2. What is the piece of media trying to accomplish? Is it trying to make a certain unstated impression on the audience? Who is the target audience? Are their certain actions this media is intending to encourage the audience to take?

For one I personally think that there are more possibilities anyway and that they're too simple and don't necessarily contradict anyway. But realistically speaking, the implication is that a much larger sum of people who want to CTB fall into the first category and not the second, which is not entirely clear. From there the infographic is clearly aim toward people who are unfamiliar with any desire to CTB and the desired end goal of it is to encourage that audience from preventing anyone and everyone who wants to CTB from CTB. It's all very upsetting and malicious, and especially the portion that OP highlighted can be interpreted to be very insulting toward many of us.

Technically there is nothing necessarily false within the graphic. There would be no issue if it were trying to communicate something along the lines of "people may or may not feel this way and they may or may not get over it, thus should slow down, give it time, and consider seriously whether this is the right option". However there's a clear intent of the graphic and false or unfair ideas it's trying to impress upon an audience of people who have power over people who want to CTB via the legal and medical system that they definitely should not in a lot of cases.

Let me just say here too as a side note that I agree that teenagers are unfit to be making such a decision.

I also don't believe the chronically or terminally physically ill are the only people who should be permitted to CTB. In the end this is a very important personal decision and all clichés like the one presented really accomplish is justifying and encouraging the removal of an individuals ability to make that choice for themselves. This is not to say that everyone feeling like or wanting to CTB should do so but it is to say that those who keep desiring to do so and are determined to make it a reality shouldn't be punished by others influenced by oversimplification, misrepresentation and propoganda.

(PS sorry for the essay I didn't expect this to be so long lol. Also, not trying to be combative or a jerk but as someone who has wanted to CTB in some variable form for 7 years I have always found stuff like this graphic irritating and I wanted to explain what I think the problem is and just saw the opportunity lol.)

Of you would feel content and happy and really good every day, I don't think there's a reason for wanting to die. We want to die because we don't feel well in any sort of way. I think that's what they mean.

Yeah you're probably right. I think splitting those statements into an opposed/contradicting binary was a massive accuracy error. It's oversimplified anyway, which ig an infographic needs to be. There's also some suspect motives though I feel at the heart of the production of some content like it though

Fuck people very hard indeed.

I don't think these infographic making mental health wankers are bad people, I just think they don't know what they are talking about a lot of the time.
The average talk therapist has never encountered a problem in their personal life that they could not solve by sitting down, connecting and talking it through with some supportive, empathic person.

They have never had to experience the utter despair of doing everything right, still suffering, and the "health"care system having zero options left.

Yeah I don't think they're bad people. Sometimes though these graphics or the clichés deployed within seem too ignorant to actually be believed by the people making them and in any case have real world consequences and harms attached, so it can be upsetting to some when feeling misrepresented. So I understand how it can be easy to get upset and hard to see past lol.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I don't understand the whole "you don't actually want to die, you just want to stop the pain" statement as it implies that life itself is mutually exclusive to what is causing the pain. For some people, the thing that is causing the pain is life itself or something within life that is mandatory for 99% of humans to do (such as wage slavery) and the only way to cure this pain is via death. Like you said, sometimes death is the only way to stop pain from happening. For some of us, we do want to die because it stops the pain (and it stops the pain permanently).

I also don't understand the whole idea of suicide being a way to cry for help too. In my opinion, if you treat suicide as a way to cry for help, you shouldn't kill yourself. I think that suicide should only be done by those who actually want to be dead from a successful suicide attempt. I think that this is most people on here yet the pro lifers will insist that the people who cry for help via suicide are in the majority rather than the minority

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I want to die for many reasons.

To avoid or skip unbearable pain, extreme suffering, terrible problems , old age, work , chores, oppression ,diseases, .lies , scams , Injustice 1000 other horrible things

A lot of these reasons to want to die sim up on top of each other

Life is meaningless suffering

Life is an imposition, an evil prison, torture slavery . So is this world. I want to escape the layers of prisons the prison of this evil life and evil world

Many more reasons

I don't get it how humans can separate the supposedly enjoyable crap like watching youtube TV, watching nature, eating, from the most horrible things and most extreme torture . U can't cherry pick . They are both part of the same evil

I wouldn't want to live in this hell under any circumstances even if I had a so called average life

 

[Arahant]

For some people the statement is true but for the most part it's obviously a very insulting thing to say and it's completely disconnected from reality. I suspect it comes from two sources:

1. For some I think it's just too uncomfortable to try to understand that something that is so sad to them and contrary to their own thoughts, feelings and behaviors could be true l

OR

2. Manipulative propoganda on the part of people engaged in "suicide prevention" to justify how the mentally ill as well as people who attempt to CTB are treated

Either way it's one of the many mind numbing, unthinking clichés that are presented to obstruct, or justify obstructing, choice on the matter. Aaying/using it often betrays an unwillingness to grapple with the actual complexity of why people CTB and whether they should be permitted to. Invoking statements like this often serve to terminate thought on the subject as well as prevent any engagement with the reasons some of us wish to CTB.

It also just takes for granted that it's a "phase" of some sorts that can invariably eventually be "grown out of" or overcome, which don't get me wrong, for a chunk of people that's likely true, but certainly for many it's plainly false. So as angry and mean spirited as this little rant sounds I hope that something useful can be found within. I agree with you that it's a shitty thing for people to say.

I agree with everything you wrote, but I get this feeling there is more I could learn to understand.

I'm posing this thought experiment as someone who has been suicidal and actively attempted, and only to learn, not to say anyone are right or wrong:

If a suicidal person were to obtain the magical ability to turn off pain and feel any wholesome state they wanted to, what might cause them to CTB in spite of that?
I'm genuinely interested in your opinion on this.

Perhaps I could mention Inuit culture as an example: The elder population of those hunter gatherers were known to choose CTB when they got to old to chew leather, and thus were considered useless burdens.
They would say their farewells, then wander into the freezing wilderness, take their clothes off and freeze to death.

Or the samurai who would do seppuku if dishonored or ordered to.
Their code of honor and self esteem derived from that was more important to them than living.
They are described as gutting themselves with a long katana without as much as grimacing (!) before bowing down to have their heads chopped off.
Imagine what desire drives willpower to be so strong as to block out pain in that manner, and matter of factly die like that.

 

[Sarz]

Rant because I came across this:

View attachment 147626

It's nothing new, but I these statements annoy me to no end.
The way people insist that we who are suicidal don't acctually want to die - we just don't understand that we don't.
I find this attitude patronizing and infantilizing. Suicidal people are just wanting attention and "crying for help" and have no intention of killing ourselves when we try to ctb.
I mean, what part of a suicide is it that says "I really want to live"? Why is it so har to understand that some of us acctually do want to die? And in what way is wanting to stop the pain not wanting to die, when death is the only way of doing so?


Ugh, fuck people...

I've had to listen to rubbish like this for years. I don't want to be here I don't like it here never have done since I was a kid nothing will change especially not stupid people who like to roll out quotes it makes me angry they can't see reality. You are strong, it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem or some shit like that..suicidal people were called selfish at one point. Try living with this agonising pain of being alive and not die cos others won't like it! And we're the selfish ones. No I don't want to come back and live again or see "loved ones" in heaven didn't ask to be here..just want to be a nobody..a nothing. Why don't they realise this?

 

[Arahant]

Life is meaningless suffering

Life is an imposition, an evil prison, torture slavery . So is this world. I want to escape the layers of prisons the prison of this evil life and evil world

Heh, you aren't the first to think this. At least 2600 years ago people had the same idea.
Theravada buddhists (OG buddhists) are by some contemporary buddhists considered "the oldest suicide cult around".
Their sole goal was complete enlightenment, to be released from the cycle of life, death and rebirth.
Contrary to Vajrayana who actively engages the outer world to relieve all suffering, theravadins went into monasteries and caves with relentless determination to kill of the false self and attain the stages of enlightenment.

I think you would really enjoy their philosophy and practices.
You can easily learn about it for free from a book like Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha. It's free at it's website.
Especially insight meditation on the no-self characteristic can give a very delectable taste of sweet release from existence.
I say this as someone who attempted CTB 3 times, have felt the unreal bliss of expecting death, and had a few mystical experiences too.
Not to goad anyone into roping, but there are similarities between the two.

I've had to listen to rubbish like this for years. I don't want to be here I don't like it here never have done since I was a kid nothing will change especially not stupid people who like to roll out quotes it makes me angry they can't see reality. You are strong, it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem or some shit like that..suicidal people were called selfish at one point. Try living with this agonising pain of being alive and not die cos others won't like it! And we're the selfish ones. No I don't want to come back and live again or see "loved ones" in heaven didn't ask to be here..just want to be a nobody..a nothing. Why don't they realise this?

I read this, and just want to say you have my compassion.
No toxic positivity from me, that's just the simple truth.
I wish you didn't have to feel that agonizing pain ever again.

If I may try offering my perspective so the normies don't cause you grief...
I think for them it's like understanding a language they have never heard.
It's so far outside their reality they literally are unable to empathize.
They would have to wade through their fear of death, fear of nightmarish suffering, if not several more larger-than-life existential fears.

May you feel seen and cared for.
May you be free of all pain and suffering.

 

[EG1141]

well, I kinda agree with the chart. I think the majority of us don't really WANT to die. However, it's definitely not just a cry for help, suicide should be a deeply premeditated decision to end ones own suffering.

 

[pariah80]

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not crying for help. My life has been nothing but a bad experience from birth. My mother abused me. My father left me. I had no friends. I was terribly bullied. I'm late-diagnosed autistic. I've never had any lasting friendships. I'm alone in the world. That's not a good way to be. If things were different, then perhaps I would feel a little differently. However, life has shown me nothing but meanness and coldness from the time I was involuntarily pushed into this realm. The only disorder I suffered from is hope. Hoping that things will change. Hoping that people somewhere else would be different. Hoping in a future world that doesn't exist and never has. Hoping that "this time will be different." Hoping that it will "get better." That's been my only disorder. Everything else is a natural reaction I've had to this life.

I'm only crying out for escape.

 

[hereornot]

I don't want to die, or I didn't before. But certain circumstances that are impossible to escape and the short time I have left make it impossible to even regain what I lost.

So death is the only rational way out to end the anguish and agony that has become my life.

It's no longer a question of wanting or not wanting. No drama, is the only way left.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not crying for help. My life has been nothing but a bad experience from birth. My mother abused me. My father left me. I had no friends. I was terribly bullied. I'm late-diagnosed autistic. I've never had any lasting friendships. I'm alone in the world. That's not a good way to be. If things were different, then perhaps I would feel a little differently. However, life has shown me nothing but meanness and coldness from the time I was involuntarily pushed into this realm. The only disorder I suffered from is hope. Hoping that things will change. Hoping that people somewhere else would be different. Hoping in a future world that doesn't exist and never has. Hoping that "this time will be different." Hoping that it will "get better." That's been my only disorder. Everything else is a natural reaction I've had to this life.

I'm only crying out for escape.

My mother too....

 

[ThatGuyOverThere]

I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a cry for help, it's rather just an adverse reaction to the new reality the person "Crying for help" find themselves in. The reality that maybe the people who raised you up on the values, that human life is actually a great thing, or a gift of sorts. is a really uncomfortable realisation. The reaction is nothing more than an emotional outburst caused by there predicament.

Though the problem comes from the fact that this reaction presents itself to an outsider as mental distress, and humans are hardwired to try and keep other humans in "Good mental conditions", for survival reasons. so when an outsider see's a person who is having this realisation, they see only the mental distress and feel a compulsion to bring those people back into the values that the person in question, has just just escaped, and to justify this they need to label the action in question. as to paint the person, as in need of there "care".

 

[pariah80]

I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a cry for help, it's rather just an adverse reaction to the new reality the person "Crying for help" find themselves in. The reality that maybe the people who raised you up on the values, that human life is actually a great thing, or a gift of sorts. is a really uncomfortable realisation. The reaction is nothing more than an emotional outburst caused by there predicament.

Though the problem comes from the fact that this reaction presents itself to an outsider as mental distress, and humans are hardwired to try and keep other humans in "Good mental conditions", for survival reasons. so when an outsider see's a person who is having this realisation, they see only the mental distress and feel a compulsion to bring those people back into the values that the person in question, has just just escaped, and to justify this they need to label the action in question. as to paint the person, as in need of there "care".

THIS. ALL of it.

I don't want to die, or I didn't before. But certain circumstances that are impossible to escape and the short time I have left make it impossible to even regain what I lost.

So death is the only rational way out to end the anguish and agony that has become my life.

It's no longer a question of wanting or not wanting. No drama, is the only way left.



My mother too....

Man, I'm so terribly sorry that you can identify with having a mother like I had.

 

[preoppostmortem]

Rant because I came across this:

View attachment 147626

It's nothing new, but I these statements annoy me to no end.
The way people insist that we who are suicidal don't acctually want to die - we just don't understand that we don't.
I find this attitude patronizing and infantilizing. Suicidal people are just wanting attention and "crying for help" and have no intention of killing ourselves when we try to ctb.
I mean, what part of a suicide is it that says "I really want to live"? Why is it so har to understand that some of us acctually do want to die? And in what way is wanting to stop the pain not wanting to die, when death is the only way of doing so?


Ugh, fuck people...

always hated these, "infantilizing" is the perfect way to describe it. i hate to think in such black and white terms but it's hard not to have a "me vs. them" mentality when it comes to this. just reeks of people who can't empathize at all, people who've never had a fucked up brain or shitty parents or have just had the world treat them like garbage for years on end. not to sound like a wannabe conspiracy theorist or whatever but the psychiatry/psychology industry just feels like a ploy to get suicidal people to function enough to play their role in society, get a job and contribute to capitalism until they keel over and can't work anymore. if we're not hidden away in asylums, dead, or working, we're useless. it's not about mental illness awareness or trying to help people cope and lead happy lives, it's just about the status quo and money.

 

[divinemistress36]

Death is the only way out of constant neverending pain

 

[fleetingnight]

I understand saying not all suicidal ideation is truly a desire to be dead, but saying it never is feels like dangerous misinformation to me. People who make these infographics wanna help, but do they really think denying it is going to help? I don't get why they try to speak on suicidal ideation if they're uncomfortable talking about it

 

[SoulWhisperer]

Seen like that looks like a generalisation. It's simply untrue that no one wants to die and they "don't know yet". There are some separate cases but even so I don't think a generalisation should be made on the basis of those alone.

 

[thesquigglyline]

Rant because I came across this:

View attachment 147626

It's nothing new, but I these statements annoy me to no end.
The way people insist that we who are suicidal don't acctually want to die - we just don't understand that we don't.
I find this attitude patronizing and infantilizing. Suicidal people are just wanting attention and "crying for help" and have no intention of killing ourselves when we try to ctb.
I mean, what part of a suicide is it that says "I really want to live"? Why is it so har to understand that some of us acctually do want to die? And in what way is wanting to stop the pain not wanting to die, when death is the only way of doing so?


Ugh, fuck people...

But isn't it true though? Just like Schopenhauer and other philosophers had realized before and has probably been confirmed by biology.

There is no "Will to die".

No one actually wants to die, they just want their circumstances to be different. Suicide only happens in animals when in captivity or tortured, ill, or as a selfless act for others.

If your circumstances were different, like you needed them to be, wouldn't you decide to live? Even if you said no to this, it would be hard to determine whether that is the depression speaking or your actual own volition.

Will to die exists in people in so far as it is used as a paliative measure such as in euthanasia, if people didn't have those debilitating illnessess they would of course decide otherwise.

The only way I can picture someone actually having a will to die is out of curiosity, state whose honesty would be hard to determine and whether it is a curiosity born of an illness like schizophrenia that would also be hard to determine. And even then, if there was a way to fullfil this curiosity without dying they would do that instead of dying. Unless it's a desire to experience death for themselves but the honesty of anyone who expresses this statement would be hard to determine.

The statement in the picture is also just saying "in many cases to stop the pain" and "sometimes it's a cry for help" it's not generalizing for all cases so I don't see it that negatively personally.

Anyway I still think I want to die and you probably do as well and maybe we should have the option because whatever we suffer can be as debilitating and painful as other illnesses which are granted euthanasia but then again this is me, an ill person speaking. I have seen improvements with medication in the past, which I know it's a privilege a lot of people don't have.

It is not infantilizing to say that most likely no one has free will or at least we all have a very limited amount of free will and our decisions are shaped by all sorts of factors outside of our control, hence why lots of suicidal people see improvements with SSRIs and psychotherapy.