Discussion Your take on psychology/psychiatry?

[penguinl0v3s]

It works if the providers are optimal and if the patient knows what they want.

That being said, many therapists and psychiatrists are unempathetic assholes. You'd think that the average person in this profession is more caring than the everyday man, but they're not. If you really want to recover, you have to go through a lot of shitty psychiatrists and therapists to find a good one.

As for the patient themselves, therapy is only going to work for them if they know what they want. I've known people who would be terrible fits for therapy, one of which was a person who was unable to identify any of their emotions or wants, and another that only knew how to be in denial about their wants. They're both pretty depressed, so I've tried to help (good skill to practice of course), but both are somewhat beyond unprofessional help because of those issues.

The stubborn fear of change is really frustrating to deal with, especially since their current behaviors are directly contributing to their misery. But since I've been there myself I try to empathize and try not to get annoyed. It's in these moments that I understand why therapists and psychiatrists can be short on patience.

 

[CPY]

Well psychology in my opinion can do no more than what a sincere loving friend could do.They can help but they do no miracles

I'm conflicted on psychiatry personally my psychiatrist is good-hearted but I've heard many people on here had really bad experiences with psychiatry

Personally I find it can help some people but only if there's a good therapeutic relationship between the patient and doctor...as in they won't lock you up at the mere mention of suicide

I'm relatively lucky as my country took a unexpected progressive approach when it comes to these things

 

[LaVieEnRose]

The mental health system just doesn't properly account for those of us whom it has failed. It lays all the blame squarely on our shoulders. Fuck, can't even get a refund (though that's more of an American problem....)

I have a very storied history with the MH system and was forced into it at young age, which is the source of a lot of resentment. I never derived benefit from it and think my profile and constellation of problems was such that it was impossible for me to ever do so. I imagine that is the case for a lot of people here.

I find a big, inherent problem is that even if the person is nice and wise it's just like drinking seawater. It doesn't actually quench your thirst even if it feels like it and leaves you even more dehydrated in the end.

 

[DoubleUp8]

IMHO this has something to do with empathy levels more than smarts. I think empathic people are more prone to becoming depressed

I'm so sorry friend

I still think you did a very intelligent well thought out analysis of psychiatric profession. You're no dummy.

 

[CheekyPhobia]

I'm far from original in saying this but I do believe that it's in large part useless for people with genuine problems. Talking is cathartic, sure, but no matter how much I confide In you or receive assurance, my circumstances are still unchangeably bleak. You wouldn't believe how many of these professionals are either in it for an easy career, in which case they really don't care about you, or have their own mental problems as well. I'm not a judgeful person, but the broken leading the broken doesn't sound like a very effective model.

 

[Allonzee]

You guys will love this, I trained in it. Master's in clinical psychology. Poor people get shit for treatment that focuses on getting you back functioning in those jobs that are so good for your mental health. I became disillusioned after 3 years practicing.

Listening how parolees are sabotaged and antagonized when they already went in desparate.

Telling teenagers that have no hope that there's a future worth fighting for.

In the end, I couldn't keep lying with the explicit goal of getting these struggling people back on the fucking work till you die treadmill.

One reason I'm here.

It's all bullshit. Literally the only people that get the resources, time, and consideration they need to seek peace and catharsis are the well off propagators of most other's misery in the US. They get all the compassion for hire they want. Only them. Our society's victimizers.

For the rest of us? Here's the plan we entry levels are dictated to push on you: Lets do some deep breathing exercises. Great! Now here! *throws pills at you to dull your mind* there you go! Now remember to find meaning in your work and home life, people care about you, ahyuck! See you in a week.

And remember to be cured within six sessions, or sucks to suck!

And no one wants to hear that dismal reality, either.

 

[offtoseethewizard]

Fucking hate it.
1. I don't trust a random person more than myself
2. People are yet to study human brain so there's no real way to cure it now, only sucky solutions like shutting it off
3. I don't think trauma like rape (experienced) and death of close people (experienced 4x) is treatable
4. In some countries a psychiatric diagnosis takes a toll on one's career and future
5. Mental illnesses are stigmatised and many psychiatric professionals are biased, meaning it's extremely traumatic to find a good doc to begin with
6. A psychologist/psychotherapist won't say anything that I don't already know, for instance bottled up rage or attention seeking like duuuh, dude. No eye-opening experience for me

But maybe I'm just stupid. What do you guys think?
Sorry for bringing this up again. I just HATE that all the support I have from anyone in my life is "oh well you should visit a psychologist". WHY. WOULD. I.
Psychologists are basically emotional dumpsters. People throw you to them to avoid dealing with you ever.

I think psychiatry is an industry that can help certain people reasonably well and sometimes very well. But it's also a lot like shooting in the dark, because all they have are patient testimony to diagnose conditions, so misdiagnosis can and regularly does happen, with disastrous results.

It's kind of the Wild West as far as medicine is concerned. But it has a lot of success, too.

It's just incredibly difficult for people who are on the receiving end of the wrong sort of treatment, because it can cause damage to the brain, which is our seat of experience for the world. Once it's damaged, it can make living pure hell.

And it can't help a lot of patients at all, which is very disheartening if you're one of them, like I am.

Psychology I think can be terrifically helpful mainly if you're mostly mentally healthy but with certain neuroses or mild pathology like depression or anxiety. I find it entirely useless for more extreme chemical states, since it's all about 'thinking your way out' of things.

It's a bit like trying to get Microsoft word to work on a computer without a screen.

Although I do hear good things about DBT for borderline personality disorder which is a very difficult condition to live with.

 

[The Final Solution]

Psychology and psychiatry are both pseudosciences and that's a hill I'm willing to die on. Ridiculous rate of nonreplication in studies, tons of drugs with unknown MOA, endless pathologization of normal human behaviour and the constant spewing of new bullshit theories about how their own models are supposed to work seemingly every week. It's all a clusterfuck and not a serious field of study by any means.

The only function of shrinks and other shrink-adjacent con artists in society is to keep you from being an annoyance to those around you and to make sure you keep being a good little productive worker bee through any means necessary, be it drugs or mental gymnastics. They are not on your side at any point and do not have the power to actually change any of the factors that brought you to their office - they just hope to wring as much money as they can out of you before you break and act as your private neoliberal thought police in the interim.

The worst part of it all, however, is the "EverYonE NeEdz ThEraPY, YaLL!!!!11!" propaganda you keep seeing get spammed around lately on social media. I have no idea how such an ass-backwards notion has entered the cultural zeitgeist so quickly but it's so aburd a concept that the entire thing feels like an enormous psyop. This idea that everyone has internalized trauma and 3 neurodivergences and is toxic and problematic if they don't pay a weekly visit to a scam artist is so obviously flawed it makes me think that most normies really are fucked in the head in a way that's beyond redemption and truly wish for everyone to be as irredeemably stupid as they are.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Rhizomorph took the words right out of my mouth. If you want my opinion just read their first reply a second time.

While I feel that I generally agree, measuring intelligence as IQ (I'm assuming that's what you are referring to? I am working off assumption so feel free to correct me) can be faulty and doesn't account for the multiple variables that make up a person. Not entirely sure where I'm going with this to be honest, but the difference types of people I have met on here leads me to believe that a large number of us can't really be placed into set categories all too well. That alongside how many different backgrounds there are here puts what we define as intelligence into question. I respect your input, but I can't help but feel you are working with a biased perspective. On the other hand, I am too haha.

Certainly. I just said that because IQ is well known.

The Weshler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) is probably more accurate.

Then there are factors related to music/art and creativity, social intelligence, etc. but the WAIS is pretty good for measuring general intelligence all things considered.

I stand by my statement that those on this forum are on average less intelligent. Again, myself included in this trend.

There will always be variance but the distribution is undoubtedly skewed.

Not sure what he was taking. I know it had to be injected but nothing more unfortunately. The poor guy was schizophrenic.
My sister had other stuff. Alongside depression there's some personality disorder that makes you stay at home and NEVER leave. She told me how it's called but i forgor

Schizoid personality disorder makes people socially withdraw. I'm guessing this is it but ofc you would know better than I.

Schizophrenia is unfortunately one of the rare disorders that is difficult to treat. Mild cases can be effectively treated with medication but more severe cases are tricky.

I wouldn't let an incredibly rare disorder that is complicated to treat characterize all of psychiatry. Nor your uncles unresponsiveness to treatment which represents a small minority within schizophrenia which is already a tiny minority.

Feels like we live in different worlds. And maybe we even do. Where I come from psychiatry is used mostly for political repression and psychology just… doesn't work, I guess

How psychology is practiced culturally may vary (in which case it's not an issue with psychology itself but a political or cultural issue re: your jurisdiction). The research in clinical trials – when psychology is practiced as intended – has demonstrated it is efficacious.

I'm not trying to come across as argumentative but if its any comparison I would argue clinical trials are more objective – within material realism – as evidence corroborating my claims. Vs. a face value judgment, or perhaps anecdotal experience on your part.

The facts are always friendly

You don't agree that sounds like written by someone with above average intelligence?

I would tend not to make face value judgments as, without objective psychometrics**, face-value judgments are incredibly fallible. Humans are awful at gauging each others' intelligence, or each other's entire subjective experience for that matter (fuck am I frustrated by society's lack of learning empathy for example)

**Psychometrics = measurement scales/questionnaires that have stood the test of confirmatory factor analysis; statistics that validate the rest accurately measures a psychological construct such as intelligence.

Psychology research has measured the rate of error and has even developed statistics that reflect the amount of statistical error represented by the face value judgments (termed "face validity"). Face validity is considered the least valid type of validity.



The predictive and convergent validity of an intelligence scale such as the aforementioned WAIS outcompetes the face validity of our individual judgments on this forum.

Indeed, the WAIS has demonstrated that people with chronic mental illnesses – such as suicidality – are on average less intelligent. Likely due to the intersectional barriers to education, income, etc. I mentioned previously.

I don't really want to have to do a literature review but I can cite research corroborating my claims if I must. I know I've read it some time ago.

I should also mention that it's not worth internalizing these statistics as it reflects the whole, not nnecessarily individuals. Plenty of us on here are smart im sure. Just not on average.

 

[struggles_inc]

Ethical individuals are weeded out or neutered via red tape, guidelines, and professional bullying

Oh my god…

You can get adderall from them I guess, that's pretty cool.

I'm such a noob, man, adderall looks like a cool thing. Never tried it.

omg Undertaker is my favorite black butler character!!

Yes!!!! Love him so much.

The worst part of it all, however, is the "EverYonE NeEdz ThEraPY, YaLL!!!!11!" propaganda you keep seeing get spammed around lately on social media. I have no idea how such an ass-backwards notion has entered the cultural zeitgeist so quickly but it's so aburd a concept that the entire thing feels like an enormous psyop. This idea that everyone has internalized trauma and 3 neurodivergences and is toxic and problematic if they don't pay a weekly visit to a scam artist is so obviously flawed it makes me think that most normies really are fucked in the head in a way that's beyond redemption and truly wish for everyone to be as irredeemably stupid as they are.

PLEASE MARRY ME OMGKDJSHBQKSHHDJRI you should become a stand up comedian the way you say stuff is absolutely hilariously gorgeous

Basically I read opinions on both sides of the issue and I feel like it should AT LEAST not be normal to push therapy on anyone. So I agree as hard as I can with you on that.

Yo guys I did not expect to receive so many replies, you're spoiling me! I will read the thread in the evening. Love ya

 

[carac]

I think fundamentally psychology is good. The mind is a complicated thing and the pursuit to understand it better and to help people is a noble one. Unfortunately, like many things, it has been exploited but those who seek money and power.

 

[cracklingroses]

I'm glad my psych clearly understands that the only purpose of his profession is to write me my Adderall scrip. 3 minute phone session with him for a refill every 3 months and that's it.

Damn I wish I could find a doc to prescribe Adderall over the phone. That would help a ton but so many just push antidepressants and other psych drugs which have never worked for me and only caused more side effects

 

[struggles_inc]

Well psychology in my opinion can do no more than what a sincere loving friend could do

Sometimes I try to tell my "friends" this. I'm always the supportive one in a relationship and when I ask for support, I usually get sent to a psychologist. When it gets on my nerves too much, I tell them to support me and pay attention and you know what they say back? They tell me they don't have as much empathy as I do so they can't help. How fucking convenient. I got so frustrated that I made this thread.

I still think you did a very intelligent well thought out analysis of psychiatric profession. You're no dummy.

Awww thanks!!! You seem like a smart person too!

For the rest of us? Here's the plan we entry levels are dictated to push on you: Lets do some deep breathing exercises. Great! Now here! *throws pills at you to dull your mind* there you go! Now remember to find meaning in your work and home life, people care about you, ahyuck! See you in a week.

And remember to be cured within six sessions, or sucks to suck!

Gosh you're amazing. Your jokes are just ON TOP. I wish I could read more of those.

You guys really made my day with your hilarious impressions!

 

[Praestat_Mori]

The whole field of psychology / psychiatry is far too complex and we have by far not even understood how our brains are working let the fact we don't even know why dead matter can become a complex conscious being like we humans are.

Most MH issues in our society have reasons that can't be cured by meds nor by therapy. Society must slow down, less stress, less pressure, better life conditions are the basic keys to prevent a big bunch of people from developing MH issues in any age classes.

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

Damn I wish I could find a doc to prescribe Adderall over the phone. That would help a ton but so many just push antidepressants and other psych drugs which have never worked for me and only caused more side effects

I got lucky lol. COVID made phone appointments the norm.

 

[Kit1]

Damn, ruthless

Those guys get paid an absolute fortune
Actually I really feel that with therapy, I might be able to return tonsome resemblance of an "okay" life or at least to a point of staying safe. My biggest challenge is that I have so much trauma and carry so much pain and crap that talking about it (if a therapist will stick with me long enough, make me feel safe to be able to do that as so far they all seem to run after a while and I cannot afford private therapy) might help me untangle a lot of the challenges and work through them.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Those guys get paid an absolute fortune

I agree with that, If I got paid that amount for talking to a therapist I'd neither be suicidal nor depressed.

 

[DoubleUp8]

I agree with that, If I got paid that amount for talking to a therapist I'd neither be suicidal nor depressed.

A thought I often have about this. Although unrealistic. Every time you go to a therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist insurance company should pay you the same amount as they pay the MH pro. Otherwise the MH pro ain't helping you. You're helping the MH pro and the MH pro is just exploiting you. That's why I never want to go to see any of them. I really never got anything out of their bullshit.

 

[GhostShell]

10 years of their "care" ruined my physical health and my mental health. All I needed was love from my parents, all I got were a coctail of antidepressants antipsychotics. iatrogenesis at its finest.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

A thought I often have about this. Although unrealistic. Every time you go to a therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist insurance company should pay you the same amount as they pay the MH pro. Otherwise the MH pro ain't helping you. You're helping the MH pro and the MH pro is just exploiting you. That's why I never want to go to see any of them. I really never got anything out of their bullshit.

Yeah I agree. Well my actual problem causing my depressive episodes is mainly a financial issue that's why neither meds nor therapy can help here but getting paid for therapy would solve the prob ... LOL ik it's not gonna happen ...

 

[DoubleUp8]

Yeah I agree. Well my actual problem causing my depressive episodes is mainly a financial issue that's why neither meds nor therapy can help here but getting paid for therapy would solve the prob ... LOL ik it's not gonna happen ...

I did say unrealistic. Curious about which part of the world you're living in. I'm in USA. Lived in California and Nevada the last 12 years and I am trying to get a read on if the issues discussed here are as bad in other places.

 

[iji]

Psychiatry emerged in the context of industrialism and market economy during the 18th/19th century in England. Society needed professionals to handle people who didn't adapt to society's expectations; between competing professionals, medical doctors won the race to deal with such a population, generally put in asylums. Then they began labeling non-conforming human behavior, the so called mental disorders. This is the anthropologic explanation.

Today, it is prevalent the use of drugs to "treat" people, instead of actually helping people naturally adapt to the environment, or help them remove stressors that causes the disorders in the first place. There are degrees in honesty between psychiatrics, but they all will prescribe medication that artificially restructures the human brain, but do not help or actually worsen dealing with the issues. For example, I was prescribed 3 different medications for daily intake, and I did so, but they only impaired my cognition and restrucured my brain, and didn't help me with the issues I was dealing with. Another more tangible example are victims of sexual assault, who end up developing PTSD, boderline personality disorder, generalized anxiety, etc; it is not a pathology that can be cured with drugs, it is a natural response to threats to the person's survival.

I recommend seeing

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I did say unrealistic. Curious about which part of the world you're living in. I'm in USA. Lived in California and Nevada the last 12 years and I am trying to get a read on if the issues discussed here are as bad in other places.

I live in a "3rd world" country and I'm glad that I can still live very well here. I could move to my native country which is a so called "1st world" country but my life there wouldn't be any better rather worse. For context: I don't have MH issues and I don't require any medical treatments and stuff like that.

 

[DoubleUp8]

I live in a "3rd world" country and I'm glad that I can still live very well here. I could move to my native country which is a so called "1st world" country but my life there wouldn't be any better rather worse. For context: I don't have MH issues and I don't require any medical treatments and stuff like that.

Don't really feel I have MH issues either. Like a lot of people anxiety and depression come from in my case extremely difficult and painful disabilities and economic strain and I feel MH industry preys on and exploits for profit. Shameful and immoral

 

[Davey36000]

I don't like psychiatric drugs in general but they seem to be helpful to some people.

I just see the whole business of having to take a drug every day for the rest of your life so unnatural and strange.

There is something off with our society when people have to do that.

I used to take them for depression and anxiety but not anymore. I don't think it's something you can 100% fix with a drug.

I think there are many reasons to be anxious and depressed in this world. But if I need something as a temporary boost, I think nature offers some options that don't include nasty side effects.

 

[hi-okbye]

couldn't agree with all of this more. like truly.
as someone who's dealt with loss and a lot of trauma, as well as having to suffer through about 10 therapists (most of them just in this year), I give up. I've been on about 10 different medications as well and they all have more negative than good. Most of them just trying to block out my emotions.

 

[struggles_inc]

But if I need something as a temporary boost, I think nature offers some options that don't include nasty side effects.

What's that for you? I just drink and smoke a lot

Most of them just trying to block out my emotions

Yeah, my friend took antidepressants and shared the experience. Basically you feel blank and I sincerely don't get how it's different from being depressed / apathetic. I'd better be happy tripping on acid

 

[meltdown]

Posting for posterity's sake. Or if you just like hearing your opinions told back to you in a positive way.

 

[hi-okbye]

Yeah, my friend took antidepressants and shared the experience. Basically you feel blank and I sincerely don't get how it's different from being depressed / apathetic. I'd better be happy tripping on acid

same here, sometimes I feel worse on them. I'd rather have my rollercoster of emotions than have nothing. It feels weird to just feel blank all the time, and at least with a rollercoaster I get to feel good at times.

 

[hopelessoceanic25]

Literally fuck everybody who works in this sector. They're all pro-lifers who are garbage. They act like they're above us because they're a "professional" like fuck out of here with that bullshit.