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L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
Should I do this & does anyone know if a book like this exists already? Non-fiction book that is?

I am 85% likely to ctb in the next 5 years and I have 65g's of SN from IC (50g's) and Meat man (15g's) to do it with. I've already produced two books already on F1, one was published traditionally and one was self published. But that experienced taught me, one is unlikely to make money on books unless you are famous or lucky. I am neither. So, the main reason for writing such a book, is to voice my anger at how poorly treated the mentally ill are in the UK, especially if you are a man. Just see the stats for yourself, men kill themselves 3 times higher than women etc...


I also want to dispel the common myth that men don't talk about their issues, because I do & would love to document the lengths I've gone to in order to recover. Trouble I find is ppl are to busy to listen in today's world. What is everyone's thoughts on this, would this book just be labelled as "pro-suicide" like this forum or does anyone know if books like this exist already? So I can see how the public received them?
 
R

rozeske

Maybe I am the problem
Dec 2, 2023
2,314
If that was my only worry and i really wanted to write the book, I would do the thing i love to do one last time and consider it as a last accomplishment before ctbing no matter how the book will be perceived. There are some planning to write thesis like suicide note just to say their peace on the current medical and social situations and suggestions on improvements for future regardless of it being accepted or binned.
 
B

Blank_Slate

Member
Mar 26, 2024
26
There are some books that are in a similar vein:

*from chat gpt*
  1. "The Bell Jar" by Sylvia Plath: Although not strictly autobiographical, this semi-autobiographical novel draws heavily from Plath's own experiences with depression and her eventual suicide. It provides a raw and intimate portrayal of mental illness.
  2. "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness" by William Styron: Styron, the acclaimed author of "Sophie's Choice," recounts his descent into depression and the suicidal thoughts that accompanied it. While he ultimately survived, his memoir provides a harrowing glimpse into the darkness of mental illness.
  3. "Reasons to Stay Alive" by Matt Haig: Haig's memoir explores his struggle with depression and anxiety, including moments of intense suicidal ideation. However, the book ultimately focuses on his journey toward finding reasons to keep living, offering hope and insight to others battling similar demons.
One thing I myself would consider before committing to writing such a book is what impact the project will have on your own journey. Will writing this book make you feel like you need to live your life a certain way to fulfill the plot or prophecy of the book itself? Do you really want to be beholden to a project in that way?

Writing about your experiences sounds terrific to me - but I would put in some forethought about how you want to frame the project to yourself - how your mindset about it is going to impact your own decision making in your life, and whether that really serves an autobiographical work or whether deciding that this is going to be about ultimately getting to CTB makes the entire project somehow inauthentic and/or limits the value of the work or makes it less likely to help others.
 
L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
There are some books that are in a similar vein:

*from chat gpt*
  1. "The Bell Jar" by Sylvia Plath: Although not strictly autobiographical, this semi-autobiographical novel draws heavily from Plath's own experiences with depression and her eventual suicide. It provides a raw and intimate portrayal of mental illness.
  2. "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness" by William Styron: Styron, the acclaimed author of "Sophie's Choice," recounts his descent into depression and the suicidal thoughts that accompanied it. While he ultimately survived, his memoir provides a harrowing glimpse into the darkness of mental illness.
  3. "Reasons to Stay Alive" by Matt Haig: Haig's memoir explores his struggle with depression and anxiety, including moments of intense suicidal ideation. However, the book ultimately focuses on his journey toward finding reasons to keep living, offering hope and insight to others battling similar demons.
One thing I myself would consider before committing to writing such a book is what impact the project will have on your own journey. Will writing this book make you feel like you need to live your life a certain way to fulfill the plot or prophecy of the book itself? Do you really want to be beholden to a project in that way?

Writing about your experiences sounds terrific to me - but I would put in some forethought about how you want to frame the project to yourself - how your mindset about it is going to impact your own decision making in your life, and whether that really serves an autobiographical work or whether deciding that this is going to be about ultimately getting to CTB makes the entire project somehow inauthentic and/or limits the value of the work or makes it less likely to help others.

Thanks for those comparable books, and for your thoughts above. Whilst my book idea is based off my own "lived experience" and journey from 0% likelihood of ctb'ing in 2018 to however much % likelihood of ctb'ing I will be at upon finishing the book. Really the book isn't just on me, the dark thoughts one has when they are 85% likely to ctb, and and how to learn lessons to help others in the future etc.

I am aiming for the book to be SO much more than that. Firstly I want the above just to be the opening into a much broader debate, about why ctb'ing is a TABOO subject in the UK & other developed countries. In a world where, men get sex changes by turning their private parts inside out, and that is more of an acceptable subject, than the one thing that is guartunteed to happen to every human. i.e. Death & what comes after death. Would also like to discuss how Ester Razten is trying to open up the debate on assisted suicide. Finally, I would like to expose those saviour complex ppl I've encountered over the last 6 yrs within the NHS, Mind Charity etc, Below is a letter I have just recieved from MInd charity today, who were desperate to ban me. Since they don't want mentally ill ppl under them going from 50% likelihood of ctb'ing to 100%. I fought, my corner & didn't give them any reasons to ban me, which the below letter confirms...

Thank you for meeting with us recently on 19th March at the Mind in xxxx office. I am writing to summarise that meeting and the outcome of our conversation.
During the conversation we talked about a recent GDPR breach whereby you were accidentally sent details of some other client referrals. You returned these documents on the day and agreed to delete the digital versions that were also sent to you. You stated you had not copied the forms but had made attempts to contact those clients by telephone to inform them that you had their data. We would ask that if you have their numbers still in your phone, that these be deleted and no further contact attempted with those clients. We have since made contact with those clients.
We reached an agreement within the meeting today regarding your access to support at Safe spaces, which will again now include unlimited referrals with the option for face-to-face sessions. However, during our discussion, we also outlined some boundaries for the support provided and I have attached our client code of conduct again for your reference:

Guideline: We suggest you can use Guideline once a day for emotional support if required, with sessions lasting up to 30 minutes. While you can refer to Safe Spaces through Guideline, we encourage you to first seek support from Guideline and assess whether a referral to Safe Spaces is truly necessary. It's important not to make a referral to Safe Spaces "just in case," as you can always request it later in the day if needed. If you've already used Guideline, you can refer to Safe spaces via First Response.





Transparency: You expressed a desire to be transparent with the Crisis support worker during the booking call. You've stated that you're open to feedback and want the support worker to let you know if anything you say during the session is uncomfortable or inappropriate. You've committed to respecting their guidance in such situations.

Respectful Communication: In the event that something inappropriate is said during a session, you've agreed that the support worker can provide a verbal warning. It's understood that anger is a natural emotion, but it's crucial that it's expressed without aggression and not directed at the crisis support worker (e.g. you are angry that the taxi didn't follow instructions to find your flat, its ok to be angry about the taxi company within the session, however it's not ok to be angry with the crisis support worker) Please see below taken from our client code of conduct.

Behaviour
We expect behaviour to be respectful and polite and for you to follow reasonable instructions from staff
Behaviour we deem as disrespectful, rude, intimidating, threatening, aggressive or inappropriate is not permitted. Examples of behaviour that is not permitted include, but are not limited to: shouting in an aggressive, abusive or oppressive manner. We understand some people may shout when they are unwell; we will support them as best we can in these situations

Avoiding Generalisations: We discussed the importance of avoiding generalised statements that could be interpreted as racist or discriminatory towards the crisis support worker. Discrimination, racism and sexism is deemed unacceptable. Please see below taken from our client code of conduct.
Equality and diversity
We recognise, celebrate and respect the individual differences of all our clients and we want to ensure Mind in Braford is a safe, inclusive and welcoming space for all. Therefore, we do not tolerate discrimination, harassment, bullying, victimisation or abuse of any kind on any grounds. Discrimination and prejudice include but are not limited to, sexism, racism and homophobia, and can be expressed in words (written or verbal), actions and non-verbal behaviours.






Any form of derogatory or disrespectful language towards a crisis support worker's competence will not be tolerated.

Scope of Safe Spaces: Safe Spaces offers crisis support on the day to address immediate concerns. While they can discuss trauma if it's causing distress, it's not a long-term therapeutic service. We recommend exploring trauma-related issues with a dedicated therapist, and you have the option to self-refer to Talking Therapies Bradford for this purpose. Safe Spaces staff are crisis support workers, not therapists, and their role is to ensure your safety, provide suggestions for managing emotions, offer onward referrals, and lend a listening ear. They are not obligated to share personal views on topics like religion or politics and you have stated that you will respect that.

If any of the above boundaries or the code of conduct is breached, it will prompt us to reconsider our ability to continue offering support to you. Nevertheless, I'm optimistic that our mutual understanding from our conversation today and the above clarification will prevent such a scenario from arising.

Sincerely,


FYI...their workers didn't like me talking to them about "masturbation thearpy" something I find helps me. FYI below & attached is the background to the above letter.


This letter is to confirm that we have received your letter of complaint on 13/11/2023. Your
complaint letter will be reviewed by the Deputy Chief Executive Officer.
I would appreciate the opportunity to explore the specifics of your complaint with you.


I trust this letter find you in good health.
I wanted to write and summarise the phone conversation we had on the 23rd November
regarding the complaint you had made and the outcome of our conversation.
During the conversation I noted two main concerns that you raised, and you felt needed an
outcome for.
1. The taxi company, that they struggled to locate where you live and how this can
cause distress for you.
In response to this I said that I would speak with the taxi company and ask that they put
a marker on your profile to suggest that the driver ring you on your landline should they
need directions. I also suggested that we would add a note to our system for us to
remind the taxi service to do this. However, I did say that we still couldn't guarantee that
they would but if you continue to have the same issues to let me know and I will have
another chat.
I can confirm that I have already put these two measures in Place.

2. Heather – you felt within the session you had needed to let off steam and you
didn't feel you were given the safe space to do this, you also felt that she wasn't
validating, she was arguing back, she wasn't listening and exploring the issues that
you was raising.



We discussed this in more detail..
You felt that Heather had brought her own insecurities into the session and you did
acknowledge that you had said to her that 'even a five year old could book a taxi' and
you felt she had taken offense to this (we did talk about this further and you could see
why she could take offense). However, you felt that if you were being out of order that
other members of the team would have said 'look you're being out of order', but there
wasn't any of that, one minute you were talking and the next, you said that, Heather
was walking out.
I asked you if you felt that a more appropriate way to end a session would be to give a
warning first and you agreed.
Following this conversation with you, I have emailed the whole team reminding them
that if they feel a client is saying something inappropriate or behaving inappropriately
within a session, they are to first let the client know that, and to then clarify with the
client, that if the client is inappropriate again you will bring the session to a close.

Within our conversation you also mentioned about picking your therapist, I took the time to
explain the service, how we work, and that our workers are not counsellors but 'Crisis
support workers'. I explained that you may see someone different every time as the service
is set up as a 'on the day' support service to help with your mental health crisis that day, not
a service that you would have several sessions exploring past trauma as a counsellor would.
You said that you found this explanation helpful.

You clarified that you would like to continue using safe spaces as you felt it useful to talk
through your struggles.
I would like to remind you that as well as safe spaces there is a lot of support available such
as Guideline (08001 884 884) and Samaritans (116123) which are both great places to talk
through things you are struggling with.
If you are in crisis then First response (0800 952 1181)
I also would like to give you some numbers of counselling services as you did mention that
you expected more from safe spaces and I wonder if some counselling may be helpful.
Relate – 01274 726096 (to talk through any relationships past or present that you struggle
with)

In conclusion - You said that you had felt listened to during our call, that you didn't want to
formalize this complaint but that you were happy for me 'to take it from here and deal with
the situation in a way that I felt appropriate'. You also said that you didn't require a copy of
your notes.
I hope you feel that I have summarized the call accurately, and that you are satisfied that
some concerns have already been actioned.

Within this book, I would also like to talk about how this forum is a haven to us, and how the media never speak to us whenever there is a news story about ctb'ing. Don't want to write all this & just be labelled "pro-suicide" however. As I don't think there is many books from the POV of a ctb'er? The below is what chat GPT told me about this idea....

"Writing about such a deeply personal and sensitive topic requires both courage and consideration. Here are some books that explore themes of mental health, personal struggles, and journeys of self-discovery, which might resonate with readers interested in your book idea:

  1. "Girl, Interrupted" by Susanna Kaysen: Based on the author's own experiences, this memoir offers a raw and honest account of her time in a psychiatric hospital and her struggles with mental illness.

  2. "It's Kind of a Funny Story" by Ned Vizzini: A young adult novel that follows the story of a teenager who checks himself into a psychiatric hospital after contemplating suicide, offering insights into mental health issues among adolescents.
  3. "The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression" by Andrew Solomon: This comprehensive exploration of depression combines personal narrative, cultural analysis, and scientific research to provide a multifaceted understanding of the condition.
  4. "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness" by William Styron: A slim but powerful memoir detailing the author's struggle with depression and suicidal thoughts, offering insights into the experience of mental illness.
  5. "Prozac Nation: Young and Depressed in America" by Elizabeth Wurtzel: A memoir that candidly discusses the author's battle with depression and her experiences with various treatments, including medication.
  6. "Wasted: A Memoir of Anorexia and Bulimia" by Marya Hornbacher: Although focusing on eating disorders rather than suicide, this memoir offers a visceral exploration of mental illness and the journey towards recovery.
These books offer a range of perspectives on mental health struggles and personal journeys, which readers may find relatable and enlightening. However, please be aware that these topics can be triggering for some individuals, so it's important to provide appropriate content warnings and support resources for readers who may need them."
 

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B

Blank_Slate

Member
Mar 26, 2024
26
Thanks for those comparable books, and for your thoughts above. Whilst my book idea is based off my own "lived experience" and journey from 0% likelihood of ctb'ing in 2018 to however much % likelihood of ctb'ing I will be at upon finishing the book. Really the book isn't just on me, the dark thoughts one has when they are 85% likely to ctb, and and how to learn lessons to help others in the future etc.

I am aiming for the book to be SO much more than that. Firstly I want the above just to be the opening into a much broader debate, about why ctb'ing is a TABOO subject in the UK & other developed countries. In a world where, men get sex changes by turning their private parts inside out, and that is more of an acceptable subject, than the one thing that is guartunteed to happen to every human. i.e. Death & what comes after death. Would also like to discuss how Ester Razten is trying to open up the debate on assisted suicide. Finally, I would like to expose those saviour complex ppl I've encountered over the last 6 yrs within the NHS, Mind Charity etc, Below is a letter I have just recieved from MInd charity today, who were desperate to ban me. Since they don't want mentally ill ppl under them going from 50% likelihood of ctb'ing to 100%. I fought, my corner & didn't give them any reasons to ban me, which the below letter confirms...




FYI...their workers didn't like me talking to them about "masturbation thearpy" something I find helps me. FYI below & attached is the background to the above letter.







Within this book, I would also like to talk about how this forum is a haven to us, and how the media never speak to us whenever there is a news story about ctb'ing. Don't want to write all this & just be labelled "pro-suicide" however. As I don't think there is many books from the POV of a ctb'er? The below is what chat GPT told me about this idea....

"Writing about such a deeply personal and sensitive topic requires both courage and consideration. Here are some books that explore themes of mental health, personal struggles, and journeys of self-discovery, which might resonate with readers interested in your book idea:

  1. "Girl, Interrupted" by Susanna Kaysen: Based on the author's own experiences, this memoir offers a raw and honest account of her time in a psychiatric hospital and her struggles with mental illness.

  2. "It's Kind of a Funny Story" by Ned Vizzini: A young adult novel that follows the story of a teenager who checks himself into a psychiatric hospital after contemplating suicide, offering insights into mental health issues among adolescents.
  3. "The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression" by Andrew Solomon: This comprehensive exploration of depression combines personal narrative, cultural analysis, and scientific research to provide a multifaceted understanding of the condition.
  4. "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness" by William Styron: A slim but powerful memoir detailing the author's struggle with depression and suicidal thoughts, offering insights into the experience of mental illness.
  5. "Prozac Nation: Young and Depressed in America" by Elizabeth Wurtzel: A memoir that candidly discusses the author's battle with depression and her experiences with various treatments, including medication.
  6. "Wasted: A Memoir of Anorexia and Bulimia" by Marya Hornbacher: Although focusing on eating disorders rather than suicide, this memoir offers a visceral exploration of mental illness and the journey towards recovery.
These books offer a range of perspectives on mental health struggles and personal journeys, which readers may find relatable and enlightening. However, please be aware that these topics can be triggering for some individuals, so it's important to provide appropriate content warnings and support resources for readers who may need them."
It sounds like you've had some important experiences and would have something to teach people about by writing a book, so I would go for it. Definitely wishing you the best in the writing process.
 
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Ash

Ash

Specialist
Oct 4, 2021
398
Is there any particular reason you decided to talk about trans people in such a disparaging manner?
 
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L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
Is there any particular reason you decided to talk about trans people in such a disparaging manner?

I am not & here is what I said word for word within post #4

In a world where, men get sex changes by turning their private parts inside out, and that is more of an acceptable subject, than the one thing that is guartunteed to happen to every human. i.e. Death & what comes after death.

If you still think I am, then please explain to me how the above statement is "criticizing" trans people then? Because the above statement is FACTUALLY CORRECT & Defamation law will only consider statements defamatory if they are, in fact, false. A true statement is not considered defamation in many states. In some states, truth is a defense (see below). https://www.findlaw.com/injury/torts-and-personal-injuries/defamation-law-the-basics.html#:~:text=Truth: To be defamatory, a,defense to a defamation claim.

&

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-affirming_surgery_(male-to-female)

Here is the definition of "disparaging"...

"criticizing someone, in a way that shows you do not respect or value them:"

All of the above is in ADDITION to the fact that I said the above to highlight how talking about suicide is a taboo subject. Unlike sex changes in my 42 years lived experience. Thank you & goodnight.
 
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Ash

Ash

Specialist
Oct 4, 2021
398
Because trans women are women born into male bodies. You misgendered them as men. That's disrespectful.

There are so many trans people who are suicidal because of they are treated by an ignorant/bigoted society and IMHO they (and the trans community as a whole) deserve so much better from other people in the same position as them.
 
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L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
Because trans women are women born into male bodies. You misgendered them as men. That's disrespectful.

There are so many trans people who are suicidal because of they are treated by an ignorant/bigoted society and IMHO they (and the trans community as a whole) deserve so much better from other people in the same position as them.
Did nothing of the sort & you've NOT shown me exactly how the statement in question could be read in the way you say. So go on then, show me. Or are you afraid, you don't have a case?

As one member's avatar here says..."I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what your understanding is." I've defended my side along with lots of evidence." You have thus far thrown baseless accusations for your own ego. Want talk about why ppl are suicidial, how about all those ppl who have twisted my words on purpose. Which has resulted in me being currently having a 85% likelihood of drinking my SN which I am in possession of then. Works both ways. STOP TRYING TO TWIST MY WORDS PLEASE.

I hope the men who were disrespected in these cases aren't suicidal as well;


https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/update-barrow-woman-jailed-making-false-rape-allegations &

 
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Ash

Ash

Specialist
Oct 4, 2021
398
Trans men are men born into female bodies i.e. they are born with a vulva and vagina.

Trans women are women born into male bodies i.e. they are born with a penis and scrotum.

Your specifically mention vulvoplasty, which brand you're talking about trans women - not men.

I'm not sure how else to explain it to you, but I'm not trying to twist your words, only pointing out that misgendering trans people is disparaging.
 
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L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
Trans men are men born into female bodies i.e. they are born with a vulva and vagina.

Trans women are women born into male bodies i.e. they are born with a penis and scrotum.

Your specifically mention vulvoplasty, which brand you're talking about trans women - not men.

I'm not sure how else to explain it to you, but I'm not trying to twist your words, only pointing out that misgendering trans people is disparaging.

What you said is utter word salad. means nothing to me, as I didn't even have trans ppl in mind, when writing out the above post. Are you drunk or high?

I didn't specifically mention "vulvoplasty" I said the word "sex change" & there is nothing critising ppl for doing that in the above post. I simply offered the observation that sex changes are talked about more than suicide in the UK. Simples!

As you have failed highlight exactly what was wrong with the statement, picking it apart word for word, as I asked you to do in post #7. Despite this being your 3rd reply now, I'm afraid you are twisting my words & have reported you to the mods. So either pls stay on topic now, or go away as you are wasting my precious time!
 
Ash

Ash

Specialist
Oct 4, 2021
398
Happy to be reported for making factual corrections 🤷

Mods, feel free to get in touch. I'm more than happy to discuss this.
 
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L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
Happy to be reported for making factual corrections 🤷

Mods, feel free to get in touch. I'm more than happy to discuss this.

4th reply now & still you have failed highlight exactly what was wrong with the statement, picking it apart word for word, as I asked you to do in post #7. So IMO you haven't made any FACTUAL corrections.

ACTIONS speak louder than words don't they.
 
Ash

Ash

Specialist
Oct 4, 2021
398
I explained myself in my second response and offered further clarification later on as well, as well as saying that I didn't know how else to explain it. I'm sorry you can't see what I'm saying.

I hope you find the peace you're searching for.
 
L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
5th time lucky maybe??? Below is the statement in question...


"In a world where, men get sex changes by turning their private parts inside out, and that is more of an acceptable subject, than the one thing that is guartunteed to happen to every human. i.e. Death & what comes after death."

So I am asking you for the 5th time now. Show me exactly where in this statement I am CRITISING trans ppl as you suggested then? Because that is what "disparaging" means. Nor am I "misgendering trans people" in that statement above, as you claimed in post #10, because I am not even referring trans ppl at all in the above. Or are you saying it has ONLY ever being trans ppl that has ever got sex changes in its history?

Oh & BTW ppl fought & died in WW2 for the right to free speech. Where is there respect then? Because I thought this forum allowed free speech, as long as one isn't critising ppl. Which you have failed to show in the above statement.
 
Myforevercharlie

Myforevercharlie

Global Mod
Feb 13, 2020
2,473
Happy to be reported for making factual corrections 🤷

Mods, feel free to get in touch. I'm more than happy to discuss this.
I don't see OP criticizing trans genders...

Could you please explain?
 
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Tears in Rain

Tears in Rain

Lost in time......
Dec 12, 2023
858
I am aiming for the book to be SO much more than that. Firstly I want the above just to be the opening into a much broader debate, about why ctb'ing is a TABOO subject in the UK & other developed countries. In a world where, men get sex changes by turning their private parts inside out, and that is more of an acceptable subject, than the one thing that is guartunteed to happen to every human. i.e. Death & what comes after death.
I think that is an inappropriate comment about sex changes. The connotation behind that comment is that you can't believe that a discussion about men having a sex change is more acceptable than a discussion about death.
Firstly, I don't believe discussions about men having a sex change is a more acceptable topic in society, as much as the topic of death is a taboo.

Second, even if a male having a sex change was a more acceptable topic of discussion, so what? You seem to be emoting disbelief that this could be the case, as if it's unbelievable that such a topic as a man's sex change could be a more-discussed topic.

Maybe you're not criticising trans people, but the tone of your comment was inappropriate. I say this as a non-trans person.
 
L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
I think that is an inappropriate comment about sex changes. The connotation behind that comment is that you can't believe that a discussion about men having a sex change is more acceptable than a discussion about death.
Firstly, I don't believe discussions about men having a sex change is a more acceptable topic in society, as much as the topic of death is a taboo.

Second, even if a male having a sex change was a more acceptable topic of discussion, so what? You seem to be emoting disbelief that this could be the case, as if it's unbelievable that such a topic as a man's sex change could be a more-discussed topic.

Maybe you're not criticising trans people, but the tone of your comment was inappropriate. I say this as a non-trans person.
This is a much more fairer & well explained criticism of my earlier comments, so thank you for explaining what Ash failed to explain to me. I do however respectful disagree with your comment which I have underlined above. My evidence is I don't know of any sex change, trans gender forum which requires a VPN to access within the UK. Unlike SaSu which does require a VPN since the online safety bill came into force within the UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Safety_Act_2023. Below are just a couple of trans gender / sex change forums I could access without a VPN, I'm sure there prob is more if I seached more than 30 seconds...



...Obviously this evidence is on top of 42 years of lived experience, and trying to talk about suicide even to professionals & getting brushed off. Hence the reason for the book idea. However I appreciate not everyone shares this same lived experience. Regarding your comment, "Second, even if a male having a sex change was a more acceptable topic of discussion, so what?"

To answer this, I am pointing out that in 2024 we openly talk about other equally TABOO sujects like sex changes these days. And ppl like you & Ash rightful stand up for your right to do so. No-body here has labelled you or Ash "pro-sex-change" or "pro-trans gender" when promoting trans ppl. Yet this doesn't appear to be the case when it comes to ctb'ing however;


That was the ONLY point I was trying to make in that comment. Having spoken to police officers (after 5 welfare checks now) I know why suicide is such a taboo subject and I think the police and certain gov members will always try to keep it taboo for reasons I wanted to explain within the book. Esther Rantzen agrees with my connotation that;

"the current UK laws on the matter is described as "a mess". & "It (a recent gov report) also identified a "pressing need" for improved mental health support for terminally ill people and said there should be a "national strategy for death literacy and support following a terminal diagnosis". However, Dame Esther wishes the committee had gone one step further.

She told Sky News: "I had hoped the report's conclusions would include asking parliament to have another debate on this subject because they haven't debated it since 2015.


What you & Ash have shown me, there is no point writing this book. As the way the world seems to be today, one could write 100,000 beautiful and important words. But then say one thing (or 0.00001%) wrong that could be taken the wrong way. And most ppl (in my lived experience) totally disregard your 100,000 beautiful and important words to just throw hate at you on social media over that 0.00001% that they CHOSE to be offended by. Even if you didn't mean to offend, like I DIDN'T with the above comment. I thought this forum & its members were a little less judgemental, given we are all traumatised so much ourselves. And we understand the importance of not throwing hate around without reason. I guess I need to rethink that view point & whether I want to be in the public promoting a book talking about ctb'ing? I think the only reason Dame Esther can talk about this in the public is because she is well loved in the UK & blonde.

Oh & the other point about books & art, it is suppose to push the boundaries & make ppl think, isn't it? At least that is my understanding. Perhaps we as a society need to be more accepting of that, because less acceptance is def putting me off creating "more art" for the public domain. I could happily create this book idea inside my mind, solely for me to enjoy & no-one else.
 
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rainwillneverstop

rainwillneverstop

Global Mod | Serious Health Hazard
Jul 12, 2022
146
Just gonna quote this.
Second, even if a male having a sex change was a more acceptable topic of discussion, so what? You seem to be emoting disbelief that this could be the case, as if it's unbelievable that such a topic as a man's sex change could be a more-discussed topic.
 
Tears in Rain

Tears in Rain

Lost in time......
Dec 12, 2023
858
...Obviously this evidence is on top of 42 years of lived experience, and trying to talk about suicide even to professionals & getting brushed off. Hence the reason for the book idea. However I appreciate not everyone shares this same lived experience. Regarding your comment, "Second, even if a male having a sex change was a more acceptable topic of discussion, so what?"

To answer this, I am pointing out that in 2024 we openly talk about other equally TABOO sujects like sex changes these days. And ppl like you & Ash rightful stand up for your right to do so. No-body here has labelled you or Ash "pro-sex-change" or "pro-trans gender" when promoting trans ppl. Yet this doesn't appear to be the case when it comes to ctb'ing however;
My point was, you didn't just say that other taboo topics, like sex changes, are currently being openly discussed, and suicide isnt.
You said "In a world where, men get sex changes by turning their private parts inside out, and that is more of an acceptable subject, than the one thing that is guartunteed to happen to every human. i.e. Death & what comes after death. ".

Firstly, I felt that the tone of that comment suggested that you can't believe that society is more willing to discuss a person's sex change than death, or suicide. As if the topic of a sex change was less worthy of discussion. That's just the vibe that I was getting from that comment.

I also felt that you were being a bit flippant about a sex change, with your comment about them '"turning their private parts inside out". I just thought that the tone of it was inappropriate.

What you & Ash have shown me, there is no point writing this book. As the way the world seems to be today, one could write 100,000 beautiful and important words. But then say one thing (or 0.00001%) wrong that could be taken the wrong way. And most ppl (in my lived experience) totally disregard your 100,000 beautiful and important words to just throw hate at you on social media over that 0.00001% that they CHOSE to be offended by. Even if you didn't mean to offend, like I DIDN'T with the above comment. I thought this forum & its members were a little less judgemental, given we are all traumatised so much ourselves. And we understand the importance of not throwing hate around without reason. I guess I need to rethink that view point & whether I want to be in the public promoting a book talking about ctb'ing? I think the only reason Dame Esther can talk about this in the public is because she is well loved in the UK & blonde.
I'm not disregarding other stuff you have said. I agree with everything that you said about suicide being taboo in society. I too welcome people like you and Esther Rantzem pushing for open debate on assisted suicide. I'm not offended by your comment, and I wasn't throwing hate at you, I was just calling out what I felt was inappropriate content in your post.

Oh & the other point about books & art, it is suppose to push the boundaries & make ppl think, isn't it?
True, books and art should push boundaries and make people think, but it doesn't put anyone above scrutiny, not artists, writers or anyone else.

From seeing your previous posts on this site, you come across as a decent person. I just felt the way that you compared the taboo of death and suicide with a sex change, and the way you referred to said sex change, was inappropriate.
 
L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
My point was, you didn't just say that other taboo topics, like sex changes, are currently being openly discussed, and suicide isnt.
You said "In a world where, men get sex changes by turning their private parts inside out, and that is more of an acceptable subject, than the one thing that is guartunteed to happen to every human. i.e. Death & what comes after death. ".

Firstly, I felt that the tone of that comment suggested that you can't believe that society is more willing to discuss a person's sex change than death, or suicide. As if the topic of a sex change was less worthy of discussion. That's just the vibe that I was getting from that comment.

I also felt that you were being a bit flippant about a sex change, with your comment about them '"turning their private parts inside out". I just thought that the tone of it was inappropriate.


I'm not disregarding other stuff you have said. I agree with everything that you said about suicide being taboo in society. I too welcome people like you and Esther Rantzem pushing for open debate on assisted suicide. I'm not offended by your comment, and I wasn't throwing hate at you, I was just calling out what I felt was inappropriate content in your post.


True, books and art should push boundaries and make people think, but it doesn't put anyone above scrutiny, not artists, writers or anyone else.

From seeing your previous posts on this site, you come across as a decent person. I just felt the way that you compared the taboo of death and suicide with a sex change, and the way you referred to said sex change, was inappropriate.

Thank you for articulating what the issue was, and clarifying that you were just pulling me up on a comment which you felt was flippant and the tone of which was inappropriate. For the record I don't have anything against Trans ppl, and as you correctly elluded to I should have simply said..."other taboo topics, like sex changes, are currently being openly discussed, and suicide isnt." So what you have said above is fair enough, and I will def learn & grow from what you have said above. Especially as you have also given praise for my other comments, showing you are not just throwing hate. I don't think enough people do that (give praise elsewhere, whilst saying..."i'm not sure about this comment).

That last sentence is important & IMO makes the world of difference. As I & possibly others here are somewhat traumatised by internet forums and people throwing hate on them. After all we are all considering ctb'ing. I also feel from my previously writings, I have been a bit of a target from mainstream media & publishers. Because I love free speech (the freer the better for me) and I love challenging conventional wisdom, a bit like this site does & is therefore the target of the BBC & NYT etc. For instance the Mind Charity issues (I posted in post #4) came about because I wanted to explore "masturbation thearpy" with their workers. And they were too embarrassed to tell me to my face they didn't want to talk about that.

I have been also been called all sorts of names in the past. FYI I have brown skin, and from an asian/muslim family (although I'm very much a buddist) so have been called the P word & much worse!!! This is why I argue back whenever someone challenges me & have so much trauma from hate. Even though I feel your challenge was a fair point well made, I have to think long and hard about whether the UK can handle this kind of book in 2024? I don't want to go to a ton of effort only for pro-lifers to throw hate at me & label the book as "pro-suicide". I am 42 yrs old, so remember the world before the internet, and it is def a minefield today as to what you can & can't say.

Just spent all day in the library & found the most comparable book to my idea is this one; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_(Durkheim_book) But it doesn't seem that this book has been updated since 2006. I think that shows the world is less accepting of suicide than even 18 years ago. I think I know the reasons why & am asking myself will things change significantly on this front anytime soon? Thoughts on that last question would very much be welcome.
 
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Tears in Rain

Tears in Rain

Lost in time......
Dec 12, 2023
858
Thank you for articulating what the issue was, and clarifying that you were just pulling me up on a comment which you felt was flippant and the tone of which was inappropriate. For the record I don't have anything against Trans ppl, and as you correctly elluded to I should have simply said..."other taboo topics, like sex changes, are currently being openly discussed, and suicide isnt." So what you have said above is fair enough, and I will def learn & grow from what you have said above. Especially as you have also given praise for my other comments, showing you are not just throwing hate. I don't think enough people do that (give praise elsewhere, whilst saying..."i'm not sure about this comment).

That last sentence is important & IMO makes the world of difference. As I & possibly others here are somewhat traumatised by internet forums and people throwing hate on them. After all we are all considering ctb'ing. I also feel from my previously writings, I have been a bit of a target from mainstream media & publishers. Because I love free speech (the freer the better for me) and I love challenging conventional wisdom, a bit like this site does & is therefore the target of the BBC & NYT etc. For instance the Mind Charity issues (I posted in post #4) came about because I wanted to explore "masturbation thearpy" with their workers. And they were too embarrassed to tell me to my face they didn't want to talk about that.

I have been also been called all sorts of names in the past. FYI I have brown skin, and from an asian/muslim family (although I'm very much a buddist) so have been called the P word & much worse!!! This is why I argue back whenever someone challenges me & have so much trauma from hate. Even though I feel your challenge was a fair point well made,
That's no problem. I get where you're coming from. I too used to carry a lot of rage inside of me from bullying, etc, that I encountered in the past. If you, rightly or wrongly, feel that you have been slighted or wrongly accused of something, then it's normal to react. Internal trauma makes us very defensive I guess.

Only in the last few weeks a couple of people on here were triggered by comments in two different threads. Both those people always came across as good people to me, but I felt they both overreacted. They both seem to have left the forum as a result.

That's a pity, as I think their over-reactions were just a result of past shit they went through.

I just spent all day in the library & found the most comparable book to my idea is this one; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_(Durkheim_book) But it doesn't seem that this book has been updated since 2006. I think that shows the world is less accepting of suicide than even 18 years ago. I think I know the reasons why & am asking myself will things change significantly on this front anytime soon? Thoughts on that last question would very much be welcome.
Yeah, it's hard to know if the world will ever remove the taboo against suicide. I have no idea how much backlash you'll get if you write the book.
(I definitely don't think masturbation therapy is going to catch on any time soon either!)

But I think that you should go ahead and write it anyway, even if it was just to get all of your feelings and ideas down in the page.
 
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L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
Yeah, it's hard to know if the world will ever remove the taboo against suicide. I have no idea how much backlash you'll get if you write the book.
(I definitely don't think masturbation therapy is going to catch on any time soon either!)

But I think that you should go ahead and write it anyway, even if it was just to get all of your feelings and ideas down in the page.

I don't believe the world will remove the taboo over suicide. Like it has done with sex changes. Why? Well because the parents/care givers of ppl, who have successfully ctb'ed like Melanie Saville. Will never allow it to be untaboo;

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2...r-ban-on-website-which-encouraged-his-suicide


Have you seen the photos of Melanie Saville in that ITV news article versus the photo on her twitter page. Seems like she has made a decent living out of taking away suicidal people's right of choice. So I don't think she is doing it JUST for Joe Nilhill, but because she is enjoying the profitting & publicity she gets from this. Like the Dad of Amy Winehouse;



I also spoke to the police over why £1 million of tax payers funds was spent on useless suicide barriers here;

£1m safety fence work at Scammonden Bridge begins



What the police told me is "They put in those suicide barriers basically to get the parents of ctb'ers of their backs."
Now read this thread from post # 6 onwards; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/advice-on-jumping.134030/#post-2237259 where I quote; "they did put up anti suicide barriers. But small ladder would be a simple solution." IMO this kind of sums up the UK's current approach to ctb'ing & mentally ill. Wasting lots of tax payers money, just because parents couldn't look after their sons or daughters properly & want to shift their blame onto ctb'ing methods. Crazy! 🥴🥴🥴


Finally I have looked into the history of sexual taboo's since the 1950's verus ctb. Below is what I have found;


"Considering how taboo speaking about sexuality remained in the 1950s, all of these women were exceptionally brave to seek help."






So as much as I would love to be proven wrong, I don't think ctb'ing will ever become untaboo in the UK at least. Not with a Tory government in place. TBH I prob won't write the book, unless the demand is there from Joe public. Just not worth the hassle & cost to my mental health etc. But I'll see how things pan out on this front and might test the waters here & elsewhere. Finally, Thanks for the validation & encouragement on writing the book. I am already putting my feelings down on paper (i.e. journaling) and that def helps. Even if you don't intend for the material to go any further like a book.
 
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Bannana

Bannana

caretaker
Mar 10, 2024
75
om
Should I do this & does anyone know if a book like this exists already? Non-fiction book that is?

I am 85% likely to ctb in the next 5 years and I have 65g's of SN from IC (50g's) and Meat man (15g's) to do it with. I've already produced two books already on F1, one was published traditionally and one was self published. But that experienced taught me, one is unlikely to make money on books unless you are famous or lucky. I am neither. So, the main reason for writing such a book, is to voice my anger at how poorly treated the mentally ill are in the UK, especially if you are a man. Just see the stats for yourself, men kill themselves 3 times higher than women etc...


I also want to dispel the common myth that men don't talk about their issues, because I do & would love to document the lengths I've gone to in order to recover. Trouble I find is ppl are to busy to listen in today's world. What is everyone's thoughts on this, would this book just be labelled as "pro-suicide" like this forum or does anyone know if books like this exist already? So I can see how the public received them?
omg I am currently writing a book about my suicide as we speak
"she had beautiful eyes"
I'd love to hear your story if you write it down
 
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L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
om

omg I am currently writing a book about my suicide as we speak
"she had beautiful eyes"
I'd love to hear your story if you write it down
Cool, how far have you got with yours? Would you be interested in joining forces or some kind of collaboration?

I ask because I've already written a couple of books (one published & one self published) both around 90k words with 250 photos. I basically am still traumatised by all the effort from that with very little reward. Hence why I am unsure about this doing this project sole.

Happy to share my story in the book (PM me if you want to discuss things there) but my idea is to use the book to help open up the debate on suicide & "assisted" suicide etc. I learnt today the UK gov spends a small fortune on keeping some elderly ppl alive. WTF??? But I am not sure if I will end up doing this book, as I know the effort required. It's alot!
 
Bannana

Bannana

caretaker
Mar 10, 2024
75
Cool, how far have you got with yours? Would you be interested in joining forces or some kind of collaboration?

I ask because I've already written a couple of books (one published & one self published) both around 90k words with 250 photos. I basically am still traumatised by all the effort from that with very little reward. Hence why I am unsure about this doing this project sole.

Happy to share my story in the book (PM me if you want to discuss things there) but my idea is to use the book to help open up the debate on suicide & "assisted" suicide etc. I learnt today the UK gov spends a small fortune on keeping some elderly ppl alive. WTF??? But I am not sure if I will end up doing this book, as I know the effort required. It's alot!
I think it would be cool to gather stories from people on this website from different areas and backgrounds and help to show the similarities and differences between our stories and in all just kind of come together as a community to tell our individual stories from our own perspectives, because most media related to suicide is from the bystanders prospective and not the one suffering
 
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L

losing hope

Specialist
Apr 27, 2022
358
I think it would be cool to gather stories from people on this website from different areas and backgrounds and help to show the similarities and differences between our stories and in all just kind of come together as a community to tell our individual stories from our own perspectives, because most media related to suicide is from the bystanders prospective and not the one suffering
Yes one of the things I really want to do is show Joe Public is how much though we (i.e. those who are considering ctb) give to this decision. And show that in many cases that final decision has been reached logically. It's similar to how national retailers decide yes this store in London is profitable, lets keep it going. Whereas this other store in Glasgow is NOT profitable, so let's close it. IMO exactly the same thought process, so we aren't so crazy to "normies".

I'm always amazed how knowledgeable suicidal ppl here are on trauma / anger triggers & mental health etc. So much more clued up than the so-called "professionals" who the BBC & NYT etc interview. So really those main stream media lot would do well to listen to us lot. Hopefully any future book will show this, and might even send a copy to the BBC & NYT. But at the same time the book needs to be relatable to Joe Public. To help with that last point, I've emailed Dame Ester Rantzen https://estherrantzen.co.uk/ to see if she is interested in getting involved given her recent comments; https://www.bbc.com/news/health-68424873

Hopefully, if she does, that will open up the book's appeal to a wider audience. Thus incentivise me to want to work on this project even more.
 
trustab1e

trustab1e

I am the one
Sep 29, 2023
5
5th time lucky maybe??? Below is the statement in question...



So I am asking you for the 5th time now. Show me exactly where in this statement I am CRITISING trans ppl as you suggested then? Because that is what "disparaging" means. Nor am I "misgendering trans people" in that statement above, as you claimed in post #10, because I am not even referring trans ppl at all in the above. Or are you saying it has ONLY ever being trans ppl that has ever got sex changes in its history?

Oh & BTW ppl fought & died in WW2 for the right to free speech. Where is there respect then? Because I thought this forum allowed free speech, as long as one isn't critising ppl. Which you have failed to show in the above statement.
Let's be real. What do you know? You know the things taught by your parents, society and teachers. Isn't it concerning that nowadays people are changing their gender and it would cause a problem in future as you would not be able to predict someone's gender and you may end up in jail next day just for calling them by different pronoun. There are only men, women and natural transgenders. What if we don't teach about gender to a child, he would see and perceive everyone as equal until we teach him that she is female and he is male. It's all made up shit.
 
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