Discussion Would you agree to experience 60 minutes of the best pleasure in exchange for 60 minutes of the worst pain?

[ijustwishtodie]

What the title says really. Just to be more clear and elaborate, I'll establish some rules below and more on how it works:

- if you agree to experience 60 minutes of the best pleasure for 60 minutes of the worst pain.. that's exactly what you'll get to experience. If you don't agree, you just carry on living your life as normal

- to make this maybe slightly more interesting, you can choose the order in which you'll experience the best pleasure ever and the worst pain ever... but you must experience both at all costs and you must experience both right after one another with no breaks (i.e. if you choose to start with pleasure and 60 minutes has passed, you will immediately transition into experiencing the worst pain possible with no breaks in between).

- the pain will affect you only; nobody else will be involved and the pleasures will also affect you only

- neither the pain nor the pleasure experience will kill you directly; you will live alive through the challenge if you decide to take it

- once your time is up, regardless of the order of what you choose to experience, the pains you get from the challenge will be healed and the pleasures from the challenge will be gone; any pain or pleasures you have prior to taking the challenge will still be there as if you never took the challenge in the first place

- lastly, your memory of the experiences you had within the challenge will still be there after the challenge

So what will it be. Would you accept this challenge?

 

[John-Doe]

definitely not, i think the worst pain would be far worse than the best pleasure is enjoyable. 60 minutes of unimaginable agony (i'm assuming you mean physical torture), does not seem worth something roughly equivalent to an hour long blissful heroin high.

furthermore, you said we'll remember both afterwards. an hour of the worst agony might leave me traumatized, and remembering the best pleasure would probably just make me feel shitty that i'll never experience it again.

 

[hikikomorizombie]

i h8 pain so unfortunately gotta give u a boring answer, no

but if i could feel the best pleasure in exchange for giving up smthg that's equally painful, then yeah. physical pain though?? absolutely not.

 

[Slow_Farewell]

hmm.. can't dole it out in segments too, right? like 30 min pain, 30 pleasure.
Let's see:
Nope, pass.
For some reason..Pain sinks into humans more than pleasure, and we end up retaining it longer while the memory of the "pleasure" fades earlier and easily.

 

[Cyndaquil]

60 minutes of the worst pain sounds bleak

 

[ijustwishtodie]

definitely not, i think the worst pain would be far worse than the best pleasure is enjoyable. 60 minutes of unimaginable agony (i'm assuming you mean physical torture), does not seem worth something roughly equivalent to an hour long blissful heroin high.

I posed this question in the first place to underline the asymmetry between pleasure and pain. Also, no, I don't just mean physical torture. I mean the absolute worst pain possible which I wish I could quantify but I can't. I can't quantify the best pleasure possible either

furthermore, you said we'll remember both afterwards. an hour of the worst agony might leave me traumatized, and remembering the best pleasure would probably just make me feel shitty that i'll never experience it again.

That's why I put that rule there as it just goes to show that having the best pleasure ever may sound nice short term but sounds shitty long term as one would probably experience a lot of pain by wishing to find that best pleasure again and being unable to find it

i h8 pain so unfortunately gotta give u a boring answer, no

A boring answer is better than an insane answer. The concerning thing is that I think if I were to ask this question to people outside this forum, a lot of them would probably agree to take on this challenge because "yay pleasure"

but if i could feel the best pleasure in exchange for giving up smthg that's equally painful, then yeah. physical pain though?? absolutely not.

Fair enough. I also believe that the best pleasure isn't worth the physical pain either

hmm.. can't dole it out in segments too, right? like 30 min pain, 30 pleasure.

Nope. I thought that doing it in segments wouldn't be fair so hence why I made that rule

Let's see:
Nope, pass.
For some reason..Pain sinks into humans more than pleasure, and we end up retaining it longer while the memory of the "pleasure" fades earlier and easily.

Yeah, that's why I kept the rule regarding the memory after the experiences. This asymmetry is interesting yet terrifying

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

What the title says really. Just to be more clear and elaborate, I'll establish some rules below and more on how it works:

- if you agree to experience 60 minutes of the best pleasure for 60 minutes of the worst pain.. that's exactly what you'll get to experience. If you don't agree, you just carry on living your life as normal

- to make this maybe slightly more interesting, you can choose the order in which you'll experience the best pleasure ever and the worst pain ever... but you must experience both at all costs and you must experience both right after one another with no breaks (i.e. if you choose to start with pleasure and 60 minutes has passed, you will immediately transition into experiencing the worst pain possible with no breaks in between).

- the pain will affect you only; nobody else will be involved and the pleasures will also affect you only

- neither the pain nor the pleasure experience will kill you directly; you will live alive through the challenge if you decide to take it

- once your time is up, regardless of the order of what you choose to experience, the pains you get from the challenge will be healed and the pleasures from the challenge will be gone; any pain or pleasures you have prior to taking the challenge will still be there as if you never took the challenge in the first place

- lastly, your memory of the experiences you had within the challenge will still be there after the challenge

So what will it be. Would you accept this challenge?

I was going to post a simlilar thread in the suicide forum.

I wouldn't want to experience 1 minute of the most unbearable pain . it's called unbearable because you can't stand it even one more second. what about 10 seconds of being put in a giant scalding oven with no clothes so all the skin is burnt( as in the Brazen Bull torture). who would trade something for that? think about putting your hand on a hot stove that's just one second but the pain is excruciating and it's not over the whole body. . And the most horrific thing is unbearable pain can be constant unending and long lasting not just for 10 seconds not just for an hour but for days weeks or months ( that shows life is bad).

I cut my finger. just a little cut a few micro milimeters in area but the whole world went away.

so called pleasures are fleeting stupid addictions imo. like clickbait youtube videos.
No way to hell with any so called pleasures enjoyable things . to me these are just baits for the trap of the most unbearable pain. watching a dumb yutube video or eating a sandwich watching nature the things they tell us are so good to me are crap and nothing nothing compared to the most unbearable pain

imo people can't recreate pain in their brain from memory nor imagine it . they are always shocked when the excruciating pain hits. for example try to imagine what it feels like to be boiled alive or put in a oven as in the brazen bull and kept alive there only taken out when about to die but left with burns all over etc or set on fire and then left to live with the pain of 99% of body 4th degree burns but alive. you fear that yes you know it 's bad but you can't imagine how it would feel and the reality of it is much worse

I replied to a normie , npc or prolifer on twitter using some of those arguments. i'm going to see if they replied or not .

I hit the normies with the nuclear weapon arguments of old age, unbearable pain, no meaning to life, and we all die anyway. let's see if they respond . they'll probably block me

I just checked . none of the normies prolifers or npcs have replied yet . i'm going to hit them all with these arguments.

To hell with life / existence and everything in it.

 

[Namarupa]

"Pleasure is never as pleasant as we expected it to be and pain is always more painful. The pain in the world always outweighs the pleasure. If you don't believe it, compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is eating the other." - Arthur Schopenhauer

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I was going to post a simlilar thread in the suicide forum.

I initially thought to post it there but I decided against it in the end as this isn't really related to suicide, at least not directly

I wouldn't want to experience 1 minute of the most unbearable pain . it's called unbearable because you can't stand it even one more second.

Same here. Even if I were to experience it for a minute, it's likely for its impact to be permanent due to how the brain works

so called pleasures are fleeting stupid adictions imo. like clickbait youtube videos.
No way to hell with any so called pleasures enjoyable things . to me these are just baits for the trap of the most unbearable pain. watching a dumb yutube video or eating a sandwich watching nature the things they tell us are so good to me are crap and nothing nothing compared to the most unbearable pain

Touché. To me, what pleasures really are is just escapism and being unaware about reality in the moment. It goes to show that ignorance is bliss and one can only be ignorant once the brain fully stops working (i.e. after death)

imo people can't recreate pain in their brain from memory nor imagine it . they are always shocked when the excruciating pain hits. for example try to imagine what it feels like to be boiled alive or put in a oven as in the brazen bull and kept alive there only taken out when about to die but left with burns all over etc or set on fire and then left to live with the pain of 99% of body 4th degree burns but alive. you fear that yes you know it 's bad but you can't imagine how it would feel and the reality of it is much worse

That's true. I believe pain has no bounds. Even in the example that you gave, it's possible for the pain experienced to be worse than getting burnt in an oven. It's truly scary how weak human bodies are

I replied to a normie , npc or prolifer on twitter using some of those arguments. i'm going to see if they replied or not .

I hit the normies with the nuclear weapon arguments of old age, unbearable pain, no meaning to life, and we all die anyway. let's see if they respond . they'll probably block me

They'll probably just say the same useless, bullshit crap again about how life is still beautiful and worth the hardship etc. It's useless to argue with normies with these topics as no argument that you present to them, even if it is extremely logical, will be enough to change their views. Life is already shitty enough as it is, for me, arguing with normies with suicide would just amplify that shitty feeling

I was going to post a simlilar thread in the suicide forum.

I wouldn't want to experience 1 minute of the most unbearable pain . it's called unbearable because you can't stand it even one more second.

so called pleasures are fleeting stupid addictions imo. like clickbait youtube videos.
No way to hell with any so called pleasures enjoyable things . to me these are just baits for the trap of the most unbearable pain. watching a dumb yutube video or eating a sandwich watching nature the things they tell us are so good to me are crap and nothing nothing compared to the most unbearable pain

imo people can't recreate pain in their brain from memory nor imagine it . they are always shocked when the excruciating pain hits. for example try to imagine what it feels like to be boiled alive or put in a oven as in the brazen bull and kept alive there only taken out when about to die but left with burns all over etc or set on fire and then left to live with the pain of 99% of body 4th degree burns but alive. you fear that yes you know it 's bad but you can't imagine how it would feel and the reality of it is much worse

I replied to a normie , npc or prolifer on twitter using some of those arguments. i'm going to see if they replied or not .

I hit the normies with the nuclear weapon arguments of old age, unbearable pain, no meaning to life, and we all die anyway. let's see if they respond . they'll probably block me

To hell with life / existence and everything in it.

 

[boblong]

I'll take the deal! Pain first pleasure later.

 

[leavingthesoultrap]

No. Not interested in pleasure and definitely not interested in pain

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I'll take the deal! Pain first pleasure later.

Wait, really? If I may ask, why would you want to take the deal? I'm intrigued

No, a lot of people are here because the pain just doesn't seem worth the pleasure anymore, including me.

I'm here for that reason too

 

[Kariope]

It depends ??? Is it textbook definition for pleasure or can I choose what would be most pleasurable for me? If I can choose and it means what I would find more pleasurable I guess yes. No idea what pain would hurt me more than shit I've been through but I'm willing to find out if I get the chance to live what I think would be my ideal pleasurable life even if just for an hour.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

It depends ??? Is it textbook definition for pleasure or can I choose what would be most pleasurable for me? If I can choose and it means what I would find more pleasurable I guess yes. No idea what pain would hurt me more than shit I've been through but I'm willing to find out if I get the chance to live what I think would be my ideal pleasurable life even if just for an hour.

I wouldn't say that you can choose, at least not explicitly, but whatever pleasure you experience during the challenge will be the pleasure that makes you the most pleasurable according to your personality. So, if it turns out that the best pleasure you can think of is the pleasure you will experience, as long as it affects you only, that's the pleasure you will get. If it turns out that you can experience better pleasure than you can imagine, you will experience that instead. So the challenge will choose the pleasure for you but it'll be based on your personality and the things that you like so it'll most likely be equally or even better than what you imagine

Keep in mind that the same thing applies to pain too

 

[Forever Sleep]

Hmmm, no! That said- it's a very interesting idea. I think the problem with it though is- I'm not entirely sure I've experienced the furthest extreme in either pain or pleasure. I'm naturally fearful I wouldn't be able to cope with an extreme amount of pain so, it doesn't seem worth the risk.

To rephrase it though- let me put it this way. In my own life- would I delete some of the most painful experiences if that meant I would also have to delete equally as many pleasurable times? Not just the memory- the actual experience at the time. I'm not sure really. Maybe gallstones and a stone in the bile duct is the worst physical pain I've ever had. That was agony. If I could skip going through that but I could say never have eaten chocolate or, never had an orgasm (sorry- crude I know...) but no- in a way, I'd prefer to keep them both I suppose if I had to choose.

The thing is- even though the gallstone thing was hell- I coped- just about but I only know that through retrospect. It's difficult judging when we don't know what level of pain we're talking about. I guess that's what makes CTB so scary- the not knowing what we're going to have to go through and whether we can hold out.

The same goes for losing loved ones. I loved my Nana so much. We had so many wonderful times together. Therefore, it hurt so much when she died. It still hurts now- 34 years later. When I think about her, I cry- still. Would I be without those memories though- to save myself the pain? No. I still cherish those memories- even though they hurt.

But- it definitely does make me wary of getting close to people now. I'm so sick of the pain of loss. It seems easier to not make strong attachments that invite it in. So yeah- as a preventative measure- sure- pain is best avoided I feel. Even if pleasure comes with it.

 

[mortuarymary]

No way.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Hmmm, no! That said- it's a very interesting idea. I think the problem with it though is- I'm not entirely sure I've experienced the furthest extreme in either pain or pleasure. I'm naturally fearful I wouldn't be able to cope with an extreme amount of pain so, it doesn't seem worth the risk.

I don't think anybody has experienced the worst pleasure or pain possible. I believe such a thing is impossible and I believe that, for every person, things can always go better or always go worse no matter what

To rephrase it though- let me put it this way. In my own life- would I delete some of the most painful experiences if that meant I would also have to delete equally as many pleasurable times? Not just the memory- the actual experience at the time. I'm not sure really. Maybe gallstones and a stone in the bile duct is the worst physical pain I've ever had. That was agony. If I could skip going through that but I could say never have eaten chocolate or, never had an orgasm (sorry- crude I know...) but no- in a way, I'd prefer to keep them both I suppose if I had to choose.

May I ask as to why you'd keep both? Is the pleasures you got from eating chocolate or having an orgasm really that much better than the pain you went through? Also, I'd say that getting rid of the negative experiences you had thus far could create a massive catastrophic butterfly effect that makes you end up worse than you currently do and I don't think it's worth the gamble to tamper with that.. so I guess I'd keep the negative experiences too

But- it definitely does make me wary of getting close to people now. I'm so sick of the pain of loss. It seems easier to not make strong attachments that invite it in. So yeah- as a preventative measure- sure- pain is best avoided I feel. Even if pleasure comes with it.

I agree with the last part. Pain is definitely best avoided as I believe that there's an asymmetry between pain and pleasure

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't think anybody has experienced the worst pleasure or pain possible. I believe such a thing is impossible and I believe that, for every person, things can always go better or always go worse no matter what

May I ask as to why you'd keep both? Is the pleasures you got from eating chocolate or having an orgasm really that much better than the pain you went through? Also, I'd say that getting rid of the negative experiences you had thus far could create a massive catastrophic butterfly effect that makes you end up worse than you currently do and I don't think it's worth the gamble to tamper with that.. so I guess I'd keep the negative experiences too

I agree with the last part. Pain is definitely best avoided as I believe that there's an asymmetry between pain and pleasure

I guess it's because life would be so bland without some pleasure- even if that means having some pain. Of course, it would be nice if we didn't experience the most painful parts as well and obviously- it depends on the amount of pain and for how long.

Put it this way though- would you maybe consider putting up with 30 seconds of pain for 30 minutes of pleasure? I reckon more people would go for that one. And as a metaphor, maybe the more pro-life people experience life overall more in those proportions- I don't know.

Experiencing pleasure in something- anything can also give you hope that you'll do so again in future. Most people know what they enjoy and try to do those things now and again. Of course- the same is true of pain- you think- God, I hope I don't feel like that again! Still- if the pain was in some way self inflicted- overindulging in alcohol, being particularly unhealthy, taking some stupid risk- we may actually reduce the chances of it happening again by being more careful.

Plus- sometimes going through something awful can prove to ourselves that we can do it. Sometimes the fear of something is worse than the actual thing. Not that it was her fault but my Grandma scared the life out of me when she described an endoscopy. When they told me I would need one, my stomach sank like a lead balloon. And, it turned out to be absolutely fine. So, sometimes going through shit can prove to ourselves that we're stronger than we thought. I'm personally hoping that SN doesn't hurt as much as those gallstones. I feel like- if I went through 30 mins of excruciating pain with them 13 times without calling an ambulance- hopefully my resolve will hold.

Some people more or less seek out pain though to endure it and feel superhuman maybe. Endurance sports, mountain climbing, all that. I can't believe they really enjoy the pain but maybe they just like to prove to themselves they can take it- I don't know. Can't say I have that mindset!

Still- to a lesser degree- I'm not sure we can experience one without the other. Maybe not pain exactly. But- if I ate chocolate for every meal, I'd get tired of it pretty quickly and start wanting something else. Not that we need pain to experience pleasure but- I do think we need variation in life to fully appreciate what we have.

I've actually relatively enjoyed living as a NEET for more or less a month. Maybe I wouldn't if I did it all the time but, it's been a nice break. People don't seem to enjoy it when it's all the time though. It's no longer something pleasurable. It's almost like we need a certain amount of bad stuff in life to appreciate the good and even the good becomes not great if it's all the time.

I think that's sometimes why people get frustrated with some suicidal people and say: 'Your problem is- you've had it too easy.' ie. You haven't suffered enough! Of course- that's cruel to say and presumptious because- how would they really know? Plus, it relies on the premise that most of us have probably disgarded to a major extent- that we should even feel obliged to tolerate having to live and suffer.

But as a question- no, I wouldn't invite pain into my life- even if it came with pleasure. I'd say most of us do what we can to dodge very painful things. We don't usually knowingly invite it in.

I guess though- it's also something that is likely at some point- having a mortal body. So- while I definitely don't want it, it's also scary to fear it- if that makes sense? A bit like fearing death- it feels kind of pointless to fear because we can't do anything about it. We just have to hope we cope with it when the time comes.

 

[binturong]

If we are talking about physical pain, then I'm not sure about the answer, I'm a thrill-seeker, so this proposal sounds tempting. I wonder if the pain can be so severe that it becomes a traumatic memory for someone like me.
I don't have traumatic memories associated with pain, the consequences of some injuries are another matter. For example, I wasn't upset that my broken leg hurt, but I was upset that people stared at me when I walked with crutches. And most of all I was upset by the stupid reason for getting a broken leg.

If we are talking about mental pain, definitely not. I always thought that the greatest happiness is not worth even the average misfortune. I am prone to mood swings, I would give up moments of euphoria, so as not to experience the worst low mood (No, this is not something that can be corrected with medications.).
Another thing is the way my brain works, it will constantly reproduce bad memories at the most unexpected moment, or when it's already bad, making a bad day even worse. Good memories are no better, they mostly cause sadness and frustration, because everything good that happens to me, at best, cannot happen again, at worst, it ends badly and is also associated with bad memories. Sometimes, listening to some beautiful song, I remember the good moments and cry quietly.

Life is not a fairy tale, there is more likely to be something bad than something good, for good, most people have to work hard, and even this does not guarantee happiness, especially for people like me. I'm also very apathetic, which is why I find life more tedious than interesting. Therefore, instead of living to old age, instead of rare good moments in an ocean of routine and problems I will choose eternal nothingness.

Hmmm, no! That said- it's a very interesting idea. I think the problem with it though is- I'm not entirely sure I've experienced the furthest extreme in either pain or pleasure. I'm naturally fearful I wouldn't be able to cope with an extreme amount of pain so, it doesn't seem worth the risk.

To rephrase it though- let me put it this way. In my own life- would I delete some of the most painful experiences if that meant I would also have to delete equally as many pleasurable times? Not just the memory- the actual experience at the time. I'm not sure really. Maybe gallstones and a stone in the bile duct is the worst physical pain I've ever had. That was agony. If I could skip going through that but I could say never have eaten chocolate or, never had an orgasm (sorry- crude I know...) but no- in a way, I'd prefer to keep them both I suppose if I had to choose.

The thing is- even though the gallstone thing was hell- I coped- just about but I only know that through retrospect. It's difficult judging when we don't know what level of pain we're talking about. I guess that's what makes CTB so scary- the not knowing what we're going to have to go through and whether we can hold out.

The same goes for losing loved ones. I loved my Nana so much. We had so many wonderful times together. Therefore, it hurt so much when she died. It still hurts now- 34 years later. When I think about her, I cry- still. Would I be without those memories though- to save myself the pain? No. I still cherish those memories- even though they hurt.

But- it definitely does make me wary of getting close to people now. I'm so sick of the pain of loss. It seems easier to not make strong attachments that invite it in. So yeah- as a preventative measure- sure- pain is best avoided I feel. Even if pleasure comes with it.

It would be a great deal. There are several traumatic memories, the removal of which will not solve my valuable experience but will relieve me of a mental problem similar to OCD. Although I would hate to lose some memories, I wouldn't remember the loss afterwards, but my mental health would improve a lot, it's worth it. And I don't plan to live long I would like to spend the remaining time as best as possible. The memories will still disappear, just like me (Although there may be something after, but it's doubtful).

 

[FuneralCry]

No of course not. Honestly I personally believe someone would have to be insane to voluntarily choose to experience the worst pain ever.

 

[noname223]

Certainly not. The interesting thing for me as a bipolar person I could actually pull that off. My last hypomanic episode lasted almost a year and it was by far the best time in my life. However I never want to repeat that because I experienced 10/10 pain mentally and psychosomatic afterwards. The psychosomatic pain was that intense that I am often shaking when I remind me of this. Well I plan to kill myself if that pain returns. And hopefully I can postpone a new hypomanic episode as long as possible. The major depression lasted 3 years after one amazing year. And it was not worth it by far.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

No of course not. Honestly I personally believe someone would have to be insane to voluntarily choose to experience the worst pain ever.

I believe the same. Like who in their right mind would voluntarily choose this? Pain and pleasure are asymmetrical with the former being way worse than the latter

 

[fuzzy-clown]

Does the pain also include terror or is it only physical pain?

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Does the pain also include terror or is it only physical pain?

Sorry, what exactly do you mean by "terror"?

 

[fuzzy-clown]

Sorry, what exactly do you mean by "terror"?

Would it be like a very painful kidney stone which won't terrify me, or will it be people butchering me alive which would terrify me?

 

[binturong]

I also wonder if we are talking only about physical pain or about mental pain too.
I understand that the first can cause the second, but in my case it's not so clear. I think intense pleasure is also a risk, as far as I know, using drugs with such an effect can lead to depression, everything seems insipid after unnaturally bright positive emotions.

Hmmm, no! That said- it's a very interesting idea. I think the problem with it though is- I'm not entirely sure I've experienced the furthest extreme in either pain or pleasure. I'm naturally fearful I wouldn't be able to cope with an extreme amount of pain so, it doesn't seem worth the risk.

To rephrase it though- let me put it this way. In my own life- would I delete some of the most painful experiences if that meant I would also have to delete equally as many pleasurable times? Not just the memory- the actual experience at the time. I'm not sure really. Maybe gallstones and a stone in the bile duct is the worst physical pain I've ever had. That was agony. If I could skip going through that but I could say never have eaten chocolate or, never had an orgasm (sorry- crude I know...) but no- in a way, I'd prefer to keep them both I suppose if I had to choose.

The thing is- even though the gallstone thing was hell- I coped- just about but I only know that through retrospect. It's difficult judging when we don't know what level of pain we're talking about. I guess that's what makes CTB so scary- the not knowing what we're going to have to go through and whether we can hold out.

The same goes for losing loved ones. I loved my Nana so much. We had so many wonderful times together. Therefore, it hurt so much when she died. It still hurts now- 34 years later. When I think about her, I cry- still. Would I be without those memories though- to save myself the pain? No. I still cherish those memories- even though they hurt.

But- it definitely does make me wary of getting close to people now. I'm so sick of the pain of loss. It seems easier to not make strong attachments that invite it in. So yeah- as a preventative measure- sure- pain is best avoided I feel. Even if pleasure comes with it.

Yesterday I hurried with my answer because there was a lot to do. The butterfly effect is too unpredictable, so I changed my mind. But if we were talking only about memories then no problem.
In real life, I thought for weeks before making such an important decision.

 

[Stinger4771]

The obvious answer to me seems to be

"In what order?"

 

[ijustwishtodie]

The obvious answer to me seems to be

"In what order?"

You can choose the order. That's one of the rules that I stated

 

[Serious_Sam]

absolutely not. the worst pain Ive ever experienced would not be worth ANY amount of pleasure i could possibly get.

 

[sserafim]

No, I wouldn't agree to this. Why would I willingly want to experience pain? Life itself is basically a game where the pain outweighs the pleasure, any pleasures you have are fleeting and pains (suffering) are constant and will always be there. It's not an equal tradeoff, there will always be far more pain in life than pleasure. The strange thing is that people like to focus on their pleasures in life (transient and far fewer) rather than their pain and suffering (eternal and far more).