Would a higher nitrogen flow rate cause unconsciousness to occur faster or does that not matter?

[Right2DiePainFree]

If, you are that afraid then maybe you shouldn't even try.

As I wrote in one of my previous comments: "I'm not actively suicidal but I want to be READY when I need it. [...] I'm completely OK with death [...] but I'm not OK with inescapable suffering and not having found a reliable enough solution without risks of brain damage is giving me a lot of stress."

 

[FromGermany]

@Right2DiePainFree, I will explain and answer your questions from this post.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...oes-that-not-matter.77482/page-2#post-1402548

Air respirator masks

Air respirator masks do not work. With some tricks one can have an almost perfect seal before unconsciousness but not after unconsciousness and body movements, change of face muscles. A reservoir bag is an extra component and has its own possibilities of problems. I have tested it.

High premium diver masks als also designed to keep people alive for some time, when they are unconsciousness, air respirator masks not. Also the sealing of premium diver masks due to the straps system and special silicone is so innovated, that this is the only way to resist body movements and face muscle changes. No other mask can do that.

Alternative hood option

An EEBD hood would be an option, but as I said, I have tested and investigated all of them worldwide, and it's really bad, that each and everyone has a least one little detail, which will make them not to work, like no vents in the inner mask or no airtightness of the fabric, gas flowing directly into your mouth, the force to self-made dangerous connections to the hood due to lack of adapters and so on.

I will reapeat it one more time. The 1 minute before unconsciousness is not the crucial thing but the 10 minutes after unconsciousness.

Do-it-yourself systems

Moreover, you need a system, which is as robust as possible, all connections must be fixed without any do-it-yourself. This is the best option. For the classic bag there is a do-it-yourself, you can not avoid that, and one should take care of it, because there have been found people using the exit bag with gas who have been successful, but have been found still sitting on the chair dead with the hose lying on the floor, which has been fallen out of the bag at some point, no question after CTB, but this can also happen after 3 minutes, and then one will wake up and has a brain damage.

Self-contained system

A high premium Scuba system is a self-contained, complete secured connected system. Nothing can fall on the floor, no tubing can flop of the tank, no bag can have a damage due to movements, you can even ly on the bed to have more peace to lower SI. If one has the face of "almost all faces" with that the mask works, then it can be done with the hightest probabilities of success.

Nitrogen purity

In my country the common purchase of high purity Nitrogen starts with 2.8. If you are confident to have 2.2 from a professional supplier, then you can use it.

Night-night

The night-night method is more a myth than a working method. Becoming unconsciousness does not mean, it will work up to the final end.

Combinations of different methods

When one uses SN as a cominbation to a mask, one will vomit into the mask and suffocate.

When one uses hanging as a combination to a mask, after unconsciousness the rope will destroy the mask set, this will lead to destroy the hanging set and you will wake up and probably suffocating for at least 10 minutes. Also hanging leads to more body movements.

First I was considering CO as a combination to this method, but the Nitrogen, which is not so much lighter than air, will probably due to the chimney effect of the heat also be on the floor and kill the coals.

The only combination which would work, is the Suba mask set and after the first deep breath immediately a heart shot with a .22 gun at the previously marked position on the chest. I would do that, and I mean that serious, but in my country in my situation there is no way to get a gun.

But with the perfect set no one needs a combination, because in almost all cases one method is impeding the other.

Dignitas

It can happen, you have to wait for a year or so. Also, and I believe, this applies to all groups in Switzerland, you need someone there who can identify your corpse. If you are as alone on the world as I am, then you are holding even with this method the short end of the stick. So I gave up the Dignitas option very quick due to this problem.

 

[luten]

it's not about ineffective, scuba gear is expensive so trying to make sets with scuba gear would cost them more to make and then in turn would cost patients more.

When you become unconscious, your facial muscles will relax and the mouthpiece will more than likely fall out.

From experience with adapter, mask, and flow regulator, the only thing that actually worked is the adapter. Better to use legitimate scuba gear!

your regulator did not work?

 

[FromGermany]

For the half of the money a true Nitrogen regulator and not a fake Nitrogen medical bla bla one, also with a real flowmeter up to 30 Liters/Minute to keep the flow more stable. Made in Germany.
In case, my face is not one of those "almost all faces" for the Scuba mask, because then I have to return to the bag. Only in this case such a regulator is needed and it must be really a good one, not from MDB or this rip-off site.

 

[LADY007]

Dignitas tried it 4 times as an replacement for N. Due to for outstanding people and the prosecutor without having an idea about the method shocking video footage and the uprise in the public they did it never again after that 4 attempts.

All 4 cases have been successful, but they used an oxygen mask, which was not airtight, and because they are not allowed to put a finger on their clients, it lasted in one case so long, that even the guides were concerned, because they had only experiences with N. Everything was taped on video

Here is the exact protocol of what happened in all 4 cases, published with a study by Groningen University, University of California, San Francisco, CA and Stanford University, Stanford, CA.

So, no hearsay or guides narratives outside of Europe. Nothing but the truth.

----

This study is based on videos of 4 assisted suicides by oxygen deprivation with helium, which occurred at Dignitas in the first quarter of 2008.

Dignitas routinely provides video evidence of assisted suicides to the the Kantonspolizei Zurich (Cantonal police), and the police return the videos after their investigation. In this instance, the copies returned by the police contained a technical malfunction that interfered with the playback.

In April, 2008, Dignitas's Ludwig Minelli arranged an appointment with the police so that the principal researcher could view the videos at the police station. At that time, the police corrected the technical error and provided copies of the videos to Minelli and the researcher. Dignitas also provided a German language copy of its client information sheet, the protocol for helium, and a blank copy of the client consent.

It is important to bear in mind that the videos are used to establish that the assisted suicides are lawful. As such, the videos are Dignitas property shared for the purpose of researching the technical aspects of oxygen deprivation with helium.

RESULTS
We present 4 cases of assisted suicide using helium as an alternative to sodium pentobarbital. Specific health information was not provided, but the decedents were 1 male and 3 females (aged 61, 73, 73, and 89). Each death took place in bed with the members resting on their backs.
In each case, helium flow was initiated before the mask was put in the working position. Time is recorded with 0 seconds marking the moment when the member finished placing the mask in the working position.

Case 1 (Male) In accordance with the Dignitas protocol, the member exhaled deeply before placing the mask in the working position. Subsequent breathing appeared normal for about 35 seconds, and then the breathing rate accelerated. At this point (36 seconds), the eyelids opened, the eyeballs rolled, and the head tilted back. It is estimated that consciousness was lost approximately 36 seconds after the face mask was in place. At approximately 60 seconds, there were purposeless movements in the arms. The left arm extended upward and reached about involuntarily. The right hand was held by an attendant, for support. The attendant appeared surprised at the arm movements. Without struggle, the attendant continued to hold the member's right hand. Gross arm movements and fine tremors lasted for approximately 1 minute. Eventually, both arms relaxed and the left arm rested with the hand under the lower back. Approximately 3 minutes after the start of the procedure, breathing appeared to stop, except for 6 gasps between 3:05 and 6:30. There were two faint breaths at 7:16 and 7:55. The helium flow was shut off at 8:25. After the gas was stopped, there were 4 gurgled snorts at 8:38, 9:07, 9:17 and 10:15.

Case 2 (Female) After exhaling deeply and placing the mask in the working position, the member appeared to breathe normally for about 50 seconds, after which the breathing rate accelerated and the eyelids blinked rapidly. It is estimated that consciousness was lost approximately 47 seconds after the face mask was in place. At about 58 seconds the eyelids fixed open. At 1:05 there were tremors in the arms, arching of the back, and the head tilted back. At 1:18 the neck relaxed and 1:36 the back-arch relaxed. At 1:37 the left arm contracted at the elbow, relaxing 15 seconds later, and then contracting/relaxing 2 more times over the next 45 seconds. There were two more slight movements in the left arm at 6:33 and 6:46. 13 At 2:14 the member exhaled deeply and this was accompanied with a moaning sound that lasted for 12 seconds. From 2:45 through to 8:35 there were 21 short gasps, spaced apart by as few as 6 seconds and as long as 47 seconds. At 11:47 gas flow was stopped, more than 3 minutes after the final gasp.

Case 3 (Female) This member exhaled prior to applying the mask to her face, but she then spoke a few words, which suggests that she may have inhaled room air before the mask was in the working position. She spent 11 seconds adjusting the mask in the working position and approximately 3 seconds after releasing her hand from the mask she uttered a few indistinct words. After the mask had been in the working position for at least 26 seconds, the Dignitas attendant spoke to the member. The member nodded affirmatively, indicating that she was conscious. At 52 seconds, the member's breathing rate began to accelerate and her eyelids fluttered and blinked. Loss of consciousness is estimated to be approximately 52 seconds after the face mask was in place. At 1:06 her eyelids fixed open; her head tilted back; and her quickened breathing continued. At 1:21 the left hand clenched into a fist and at 2:33 the left arm slowly extended for 10 seconds. During this same period the member's lips vibrated with her exhaled breaths, implying relaxation of facial muscles. At 2:23 there was a contraction of the left arm; a deep exhalation at 2:30; a contraction of the left arm at 2:50; and at 3:17 there was a big snort and extension of the left arm. At 4:03 breathing paused and then at 4:17 there were 7 quick short breaths lasting to 4:33. At 4:48, 4:43, and 4:56 there were 3 final breaths.

Case 4 (Female) The member exhaled prior to placing the mask in the working position and after 30 seconds she appeared conscious. At 33 seconds she nodded "yes" to an attendant's query whether she was breathing. Immediately afterwards the member's eyelids blinked rapidly. It is estimated that consciousness was lost 55 seconds after the mask was put in place. At 1:11 her eyeballs rolled, and there were tremors in both hands. The tremors continued to 2:06 and then the body appeared relaxed. At 2:09 the breathing rate quickened for about 6 seconds. At 3:03 there was a slow extension and contraction of both arms, which then relaxed at the member's sides at 3:26. At 3:58 breathing began to accelerate, pausing occasionally, and then accelerating again. From 5:36 to 10:12 there was intermittent moaning. During this same period the eyelids were open and the eyeballs were moving, but without appearance of control. Between 10:13 to 38:16, intermittent patterns of accelerated breathing, relaxed breathing, and moaning continued. During this period a number of movements occurred: at 26:03 the head tilted back; at 30:41 the shoulders shrugged and left arm contracted; at 34:55 the left shoulder shrugged; at 37:06 both arms contracted for 10 seconds after which the member appeared quite inert. At 38:16 the camera was turned off, to replace the video tape. The time elapsed for this is not known. The duration of the second tape is 26:57. At 0:49 of part 2 the member let out a deep gasp and the head tilted back to 0:57. At 1:31 the tongue extended slightly and withdrew. This tongue movement continued at 15 – 20 second intervals until 3:45, after which no further signs of life were apparent. The camera continued to run from 3:45 to 26:57, but the member appeared dead. The recorded time from the start of the procedure to cessation of all signs of life was approximate 42 minutes. The actual time from start to finish is not known due to the change of video tape. The changes in breathing patterns, moaning, and longer dying time appeared to concern and confuse the Dignitas attendants.

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR THIS INFORMATION...I WILL BE USING BUNGEE CORDS ON MY FOREARMS AND THIS INFO PROVED IT A GOOD THING TO DO!

 

[Ta555]

If one does not a research at all available sources and cases, studies, this will end up in a permanent brain damage like with the Scuba instruction guide, which is very dangerous and should be removed. The cheap ice mask is sealing nothing and the stage will be anything but airtight, put it in the mask with some piece of butter, what?!, and after unconsciousness the mouthpiece will flop out of the mouth and that's the way, brain damage work.

The nice person who has promoted the exit bag method for months and months as it is the Holy Grail with just an exit bag and gas, at then end, he did not use this method and was going to Swiss. It's one thing to say, how easy and fine everything is, so that other people shall use it, but if one is not ready to use the method for his own, then for me it's a signal to research more, what I have done, and so many things, which have been discussed on this forum as the real thing, can be debunked, because they are too risky.

I really don't understand, why people take this serious matter so easy. Just look at Humphry's insane old two helium tanks instructions video. If you are not over 70 or terminally ill without any power, the chances of failure are 80 % or even more with that "guide" and not because of any probably dilluted Helium.

There are probably many people with brain damage in the care homes, who failed with this method, like this is the case with hanging. It's not like SN or N. In this case you can not say later, oh well, if I did that or that, it would have been worked. It's too late then. This method was designed for people who are almost dead or so old, that there is not so much SI or physical resistance. It's not made for younger people. Younger people have to consider many more things and true knowlegde from all available world wide sources, this is the real thing to have a good chance, that it will work, the only one, if you are not 70+ or terminally ill without any power.

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood but are you saying there are a lot of failed hangings?

 

[FromGermany]

Yes. Partial is almost impossible.
Full suspension can last a long time until death with a failure. If one will be found too early, risk of brain damage.

 

[Greenberg]

For now N is out of question, too expensive and don't want legal trouble. However I am unsure how you came to the conclusion that N, SN and Exit Bag "guarantee one's passing"? There are SO many things that can go wrong. That's what this forum is full of. Puking the SN out. Exit Bag becoming loose or hose connection breaking from convulsions when severe hypoxia kicks in. Or Survival Instinct makes you tear the bag off the head. I liked the Exit Bag method. Until I discovered the uncertanties and failures. And the risk of brain damage! Then I discovered the scuba gear method alternative, thought I'd found the perfect solution. Until I discovered that the demand valve might not work with shallow breathing and and that the masks might not seal perfectly, especially above water and especially affordable ones.

I'd honestly try SN as the first thing because it's the least likely to leave permanent damage. But I'm not sure how to get the antiemetic. Found a few sites who sell without prescription but they might be scams. I don't wanna risk it without the antiemetic.

Yes, it is true that many things can go wrong. That is why you research each methodology thoroughly and determine which one suits you best. I will say it differently: if you know what you are doing and understand the rationale behind your chosen method AND mitigate the risks associated with it, your intention to CBT will be successful.

For instance, using SN as an example, you had mentioned: "puking the SN out." Well, that is why it is always prudent to have a second dose prepared and ready to be used. The risks you have highlighted with the top 3 methods certainly exist especially if you choose not to address them directly but instead accept them as insurmountable obstacles.

We are fortunate to have this forum whereby knowledge can be freely shared and ideas scrutinized. I sincerely suggest that you conduct your due diligence and pose any questions you may have. I have found this forum to be both helpful and supportive.

Best, G

it's not about ineffective, scuba gear is expensive so trying to make sets with scuba gear would cost them more to make and then in turn would cost patients more.

When you become unconscious, your facial muscles will relax and the mouthpiece will more than likely fall out.

From experience with adapter, mask, and flow regulator, the only thing that actually worked is the adapter. Better to use legitimate scuba gear!

What was the adapter used for in your setup? Was the flow regulator incompatible with your tank connector? Thank you.

 

[Greenberg]

But how can one guarantee correct execution? There seem to be variables beyond one's control. So "when executed correctly" is too much of a lottery.

Pick a method and list the variables of concern.

 

[Right2DiePainFree]

@Right2DiePainFree, I will explain and answer your questions from this post.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...oes-that-not-matter.77482/page-2#post-1402548

Air respirator masks

Air respirator masks do not work. With some tricks one can have an almost perfect seal before unconsciousness but not after unconsciousness and body movements, change of face muscles. A reservoir bag is an extra component and has its own possibilities of problems. I have tested it.

High premium diver masks als also designed to keep people alive for some time, when they are unconsciousness, air respirator masks not. Also the sealing of premium diver masks due to the straps system and special silicone is so innovated, that this is the only way to resist body movements and face muscle changes. No other mask can do that.

Alternative hood option

An EEBD hood would be an option, but as I said, I have tested and investigated all of them worldwide, and it's really bad, that each and everyone has a least one little detail, which will make them not to work, like no vents in the inner mask or no airtightness of the fabric, gas flowing directly into your mouth, the force to self-made dangerous connections to the hood due to lack of adapters and so on.

I will reapeat it one more time. The 1 minute before unconsciousness is not the crucial thing but the 10 minutes after unconsciousness.

Do-it-yourself systems

Moreover, you need a system, which is as robust as possible, all connections must be fixed without any do-it-yourself. This is the best option. For the classic bag there is a do-it-yourself, you can not avoid that, and one should take care of it, because there have been found people using the exit bag with gas who have been successful, but have been found still sitting on the chair dead with the hose lying on the floor, which has been fallen out of the bag at some point, no question after CTB, but this can also happen after 3 minutes, and then one will wake up and has a brain damage.

Self-contained system

A high premium Scuba system is a self-contained, complete secured connected system. Nothing can fall on the floor, no tubing can flop of the tank, no bag can have a damage due to movements, you can even ly on the bed to have more peace to lower SI. If one has the face of "almost all faces" with that the mask works, then it can be done with the hightest probabilities of success.

Nitrogen purity

In my country the common purchase of high purity Nitrogen starts with 2.8. If you are confident to have 2.2 from a professional supplier, then you can use it.

Night-night

The night-night method is more a myth than a working method. Becoming unconsciousness does not mean, it will work up to the final end.

Combinations of different methods

When one uses SN as a cominbation to a mask, one will vomit into the mask and suffocate.

When one uses hanging as a combination to a mask, after unconsciousness the rope will destroy the mask set, this will lead to destroy the hanging set and you will wake up and probably suffocating for at least 10 minutes. Also hanging leads to more body movements.

First I was considering CO as a combination to this method, but the Nitrogen, which is not so much lighter than air, will probably due to the chimney effect of the heat also be on the floor and kill the coals.

The only combination which would work, is the Suba mask set and after the first deep breath immediately a heart shot with a .22 gun at the previously marked position on the chest. I would do that, and I mean that serious, but in my country in my situation there is no way to get a gun.

But with the perfect set no one needs a combination, because in almost all cases one method is impeding the other.

Dignitas

It can happen, you have to wait for a year or so. Also, and I believe, this applies to all groups in Switzerland, you need someone there who can identify your corpse. If you are as alone on the world as I am, then you are holding even with this method the short end of the stick. So I gave up the Dignitas option very quick due to this problem.

Thanks for the info. Altho I feel these are all the worst case scenarios. Not things that WILL happen as you write. And hanging lasting 10 minutes? More of an exception than a rule. Partial being almost impossible? Where does that info come from? For Robin Williams and many others I heard it wasn't. Night Night a myth? Does the megathread also confirm it's a myth? As far as I read I saw someone was probably successful.

Regarding respirator masks. Even if the seal is not perfect, there is POSITIVE PRESSURE. Which should ensure breathing nitrogen not any air. The Exit Bag itself is SUPPOSED to have a leak at the bottom. Altho how can I be sure it's not too tight or too loose. That's why I wanted to prefer a mask. Also I prefer lying down.

So if nothing never works or can work as you write, what is the method with the least possibility of failure? The classic Exit Bag still?

Can I do Exit Bag outside without a chair? Maybe sitting on the ground and strapping myself onto a tree? Cover the tree trunk with something to make sure it or branches or anything won't break the bag.

As much as I have sesrched I have found no known cases of Exit Bag brain damage. The ones who have torn off the bag seem to have done it before brain damage I guess. Or there are Exit Bag brain damaged people we just don't know of?

Some instruction recommended to zip tie the hose into the bag in addition to just taping it and cover the holes with tape. Then again, why are any holes a bad thing if there is positive pressure in the bag and it's supposed to leak at the bottom anyway?

I guess I have to be in a bad enough situation where there's guaranteed suffering ahead to use the Exit Bag with it's small risk of brain damage being weighed up by the alternative of not using it being much worse.

 

[Ta555]

Yes. Partial is almost impossible.
Full suspension can last a long time until death with a failure. If one will be found too early, risk of brain damage.

I know partial is very unreliable but really? You're even saying full suspension is unreliable? The most commonly used suicide method world wide is now unreliable? To me it actually seems much more reliable than any nitrogen set up.
In an above comment you said combining hanging and nitrogen will fail because the rope will move the bag (agree this can happen) but then you say the bag will interfere with the hanging set up. Seriously? I'm sorry but I'm finding it a bit hard to take you seriously at this point. How on earth will a plastic bag over your head interfere with a full suspension hanging? Honestly. What will a plastic bag do to undo a slipknot? Or even a mask. How will a mask undo a rope? What you said doesn't make any sense. A plastic bag over your head isn't going to do anything to your full suspension hanging.

Thanks for the info. Altho I feel these are all the worst case scenarios. Not things that WILL happen as you write. And hanging lasting 10 minutes? More of an exception than a rule. Partial being almost impossible? Where does that info come from? For Robin Williams and many others I heard it wasn't. Night Night a myth? Does the megathread also confirm it's a myth? As far as I read I saw someone was probably successful.

Regarding respirator masks. Even if the seal is not perfect, there is POSITIVE PRESSURE. Which should ensure breathing nitrogen not any air. The Exit Bag itself is SUPPOSED to have a leak at the bottom. Altho how can I be sure it's not too tight or too loose. That's why I wanted to prefer a mask. Also I prefer lying down.

So if nothing never works or can work as you write, what is the method with the least possibility of failure? The classic Exit Bag still?

Can I do Exit Bag outside without a chair? Maybe sitting on the ground and strapping myself onto a tree? Cover the tree trunk with something to make sure it or branches or anything won't break the bag.

As much as I have sesrched I have found no known cases of Exit Bag brain damage. The ones who have torn off the bag seem to have done it before brain damage I guess. Or there are Exit Bag brain damaged people we just don't know of?

Some instruction recommended to zip tie the hose into the bag in addition to just taping it and cover the holes with tape. Then again, why are any holes a bad thing if there is positive pressure in the bag and it's supposed to leak at the bottom anyway?

I guess I have to be in a bad enough situation where there's guaranteed suffering ahead to use the Exit Bag with it's small risk of brain damage being weighed up by the alternative of not using it being much worse.

You are absolutely right. According to this person nothing works. It's a bit ridiculous. Of course there are risks with any method but the way they talk it makes it sound like these worst case scenario us are high probabilities instead of possibilities. I appreciate the effort they put into the research but I'm finding their views somewhat extreme.

 

[Butterflyfree]

Thanks for the info. Altho I feel these are all the worst case scenarios. Not things that WILL happen as you write. And hanging lasting 10 minutes? More of an exception than a rule. Partial being almost impossible? Where does that info come from? For Robin Williams and many others I heard it wasn't. Night Night a myth? Does the megathread also confirm it's a myth? As far as I read I saw someone was probably successful.

Regarding respirator masks. Even if the seal is not perfect, there is POSITIVE PRESSURE. Which should ensure breathing nitrogen not any air. The Exit Bag itself is SUPPOSED to have a leak at the bottom. Altho how can I be sure it's not too tight or too loose. That's why I wanted to prefer a mask. Also I prefer lying down.

So if nothing never works or can work as you write, what is the method with the least possibility of failure? The classic Exit Bag still?

Can I do Exit Bag outside without a chair? Maybe sitting on the ground and strapping myself onto a tree? Cover the tree trunk with something to make sure it or branches or anything won't break the bag.

As much as I have sesrched I have found no known cases of Exit Bag brain damage. The ones who have torn off the bag seem to have done it before brain damage I guess. Or there are Exit Bag brain damaged people we just don't know of?

Some instruction recommended to zip tie the hose into the bag in addition to just taping it and cover the holes with tape. Then again, why are any holes a bad thing if there is positive pressure in the bag and it's supposed to leak at the bottom anyway?

I guess I have to be in a bad enough situation where there's guaranteed suffering ahead to use the Exit Bag with it's small risk of brain damage being weighed up by the alternative of not using it being much worse.

@Right2DiePainFree personally, I would take what @FromGermany is saying with a grain of salt. I believe he may be trying to dissuade others from using any method at all.

 

[FromGermany]

@Right2DiePainFree, @Ta555

"More of an exception than a rule."

What, if you or me are the exception? No one knows, but the intelligent people consider, they could be the exception by adding steps to avoid that by all available means.

"Partial being almost impossible? Where does that info come from? For Robin Williams and many others I heard it wasn't. Night Night a myth? Does the megathread also confirm it's a myth? As far as I read I saw someone was probably successful."

Partial method only works, if there is absolutely no SI anymore as this is the case with some prisoners and was the case with wonderful actor Robin W., who was found with a belt tied around his neck, wedged between the closet door and door frame, in a seated position, slightly suspended off the ground, like he was sitting in a chair. He suffered not only under Parkinson's disease but also under Lewy-Body dementia, so he was so afraid about the end of the life with this diseases, that there was no SI anymore, nothing, and the only reason, why it worked.

"Can I do Exit Bag outside without a chair? Maybe sitting on the ground and strapping myself onto a tree? Cover the tree trunk with something to make sure it or branches or anything won't break the bag."

The bark of the tree will destroy the bag. One must tape first some thin pillows around the tree at the region, where the head is. You can sit in a car in the backseat and fix your upperbody with the belt and the arms and hands with elastic loops or bungee cords. Never use handcuffs, because this will even stronger the SI.

"Some instruction recommended to zip tie the hose into the bag in addition to just taping it and cover the holes with tape. Then again, why are any holes a bad thing if there is positive pressure in the bag and it's supposed to leak at the bottom anyway?"

There is a flow. If there are any holes aside of the opening at the bottom, it can happen, that the flow will also flow some O2 into the bag at holes. There is good tape to fix the hose into the bag. But you have to test it if the hose will hold for at least 15 minutes with that combination of the bag and hose and tape material. There have been cases, people have been found dead, but the hose has flopped out of the bag at some time and was lying on the floor, probably after 10 minutes, because otherwise they would be still alive, of course with a brain damage.

"According to this person nothing works."

That's the untruth. The truth is, since weeks I am telling the people, that an expensive premium Scuba Mask set will work and that I do everything to make it work for some nice people on the forum and for me and that an exit bag as an unwanted alternative would work, if some dozens of small things will be considered. But the priority will be on the mask set. It's more expensive than N, but it has the maximum security.

 

[Right2DiePainFree]

@Right2DiePainFree, @Ta555

"More of an exception than a rule."

What, if you or me are the exception? No one knows, but the intelligent people consider, they could be the exception by adding steps to avoid that by all available means.

"Partial being almost impossible? Where does that info come from? For Robin Williams and many others I heard it wasn't. Night Night a myth? Does the megathread also confirm it's a myth? As far as I read I saw someone was probably successful."

Partial method only works, if there is absolutely no SI anymore as this is the case with some prisoners and was the case with wonderful actor Robin W., who was found with a belt tied around his neck, wedged between the closet door and door frame, in a seated position, slightly suspended off the ground, like he was sitting in a chair. He suffered not only under Parkinson's disease but also under Lewy-Body dementia, so he was so afraid about the end of the life with this diseases, that there was no SI anymore, nothing, and the only reason, why it worked.

"Can I do Exit Bag outside without a chair? Maybe sitting on the ground and strapping myself onto a tree? Cover the tree trunk with something to make sure it or branches or anything won't break the bag."

The bark of the tree will destroy the bag. One must tape first some thin pillows around the tree at the region, where the head is. You can sit in a car in the backseat and fix your upperbody with the belt and the arms and hands with elastic loops or bungee cords. Never use handcuffs, because this will even stronger the SI.

"Some instruction recommended to zip tie the hose into the bag in addition to just taping it and cover the holes with tape. Then again, why are any holes a bad thing if there is positive pressure in the bag and it's supposed to leak at the bottom anyway?"

There is a flow. If there are any holes aside of the opening at the bottom, it can happen, that the flow will also flow some O2 into the bag at holes. There is good tape to fix the hose into the bag. But you have to test it if the hose will hold for at least 15 minutes with that combination of the bag and hose and tape material. There have been cases, people have been found dead, but the hose has flopped out of the bag at some time and was lying on the floor, probably after 10 minutes, because otherwise they would be still alive, of course with a brain damage.

"According to this person nothing works."

That's the untruth. The truth is, since weeks I am telling the people, that an expensive premium Scuba Mask set will work and that I do everything to make it work for some nice people on the forum and for me and that an exit bag as an unwanted alternative would work, if some dozens of small things will be considered. But the priority will be on the mask set. It's more expensive than N, but it has the maximum security.

So if I may ask, which mask is it, the expensive premium scuba mask? And how much does it cost? What is the information that it's the only mask that works based on?

Still how can you be so sure a full face respirator mask with positive pressure won't work? I get it now that with a demand valve leakage might be a huge problem (altho 1 or more have CTB with the cheap scuba gear, not aware of anybody failing). But with positive pressure theoretically the seal doesn't even have to be perfect.

 

[FromGermany]

"So if I may ask, which mask is it, the expensive premium scuba mask? And how much does it cost?"

At least a higher level Ocean Reef full face with intregrated 2. stage, premium 1. stage, longer premium Scuba hose, Nitrogen regulator to check, if there is really enough gas in the tank, the tank itself, adpaters to connect the 1. stage with a Nitrogen tank, some other little things, it's more than 1.000, depending at which regular, I repeat regular store this will be purchased. All these equipment should be purchased as new, never as used.

If one wants so train SI and to check, if the own breathing fits the demand valve, a pressured tank of air for diving or a pressured tank of air with a regulator is needed.

"What is the information that it's the only mask that works based on?"

Tests and common sense.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

i've always been thinking that a cheap and reasonably fail-proof method would be:
- exit bag, secured to the neck with tape
- one-way valve (possibly applied to a tube that exits the bag near the neck, or connected to a small mask placed on the mouth-nose)
This will avoid that oxygen enters the bag. The only uncertainty is whether the one-way valve is able to get rid of the CO2 that is exhaled

 

[luten]

i've always been thinking that a cheap and reasonably fail-proof method would be:
- exit bag, secured to the neck with tape
- one-way valve (possibly applied to a tube that exits the bag near the neck, or connected to a small mask placed on the mouth-nose)
This will avoid that oxygen enters the bag. The only uncertainty is whether the one-way valve is able to get rid of the CO2 that is exhaled

thats what i am doing, two tanks, exit bag, rebreather mask , all independent. Not sure about how i am going to terminate the bag, but the mask been modified/secured, so much that I cant even get it off when fully conscious

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

thats what i am doing, two tanks, exit bag, rebreather mask , all independent. Not sure about how i am going to terminate the bag, but the mask been modified/secured, so much that I cant even get it off when fully conscious

interesting. the rebreather mask has 2 tubes, one for the in-flowing gas, and the other for exhaling your breath (with 1 way valve)?

 

[luten]

interesting. the rebreather mask has 2 tubes, one for the in-flowing gas, and the other for exhaling your breath (with 1 way valve)?

there are two little outlet holes on the rebreather mask, which opens when you exhale. The nitrogen goes into a reservoir bag attached to the mask.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

there are two little outlet holes on the rebreather mask, which opens when you exhale. The nitrogen goes into a reservoir bag attached to the mask.

one thing you should take care for:
when you force gas into the mask, it might be that the mask is not providing a perfect seal (because of buildup of pressure inside the mask).
In that case, you should rely on the bag placed around the head as a second isolation from atmosphere.
At the beginning the bag should be empty from gas. I think it's a bit tricky to find an easy sequence of actions to follow when you apply the mask and the bag over the head.
Also: if the outlet holes/tubes do not release the exhaled gas into the bag, it will take more time to deplete the bag from the remaining oxygen - CO2

 

[luten]

one thing you should take care for:
when you force gas into the mask, it might be that the mask is not providing a perfect seal (because of buildup of pressure inside the mask).
In that case, you should rely on the bag placed around the head as a second isolation from atmosphere.
At the beginning the bag should be empty from gas. I think it's a bit tricky to find an easy sequence of actions to follow when you apply the mask and the bag over the head.
Also: if the outlet holes/tubes do not release the exhaled gas into the bag, it will take more time to deplete the bag from the remaining oxygen - CO2

i thought of sucking the air from the bag with a vacuum cleaner, a lot of steps to perform , quickly, and in sequence.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

not a bad idea, sucking out the air after having placed the bag and the mask on the head, before connecting the nitrogen.
You can then remove the tube of the vacuum cleaner, or it will suck out also the nitrogen

 

[Greenberg]

i thought of sucking the air from the bag with a vacuum cleaner, a lot of steps to perform , quickly, and in sequence.

If you do not mind using some gas, prefill your bag prior to putting it on. Best, G

 

[luten]

If you do not mind using some gas, prefill your bag prior to putting it on. Best, G

Thank you, do we agree on 15 L/PM for mask , and 20 l/pm for exit bag? Must bag be terminated with tape, tightly?

 

[Greenberg]

The exit bag method and its variants at 15LPM have all withstood the test of time -- think of it as a proven threshold for effectiveness. A slightly higher flow rate would also work but would result in higher consumption of gas.

The bag should not be secured (around the neck) tightly. The idea here is to create a positive pressure environment while simultaneously permitting expelled gases (CO2) to escape.

Best, G

 

[FromGermany]

Everyone, who still claims, that 15 Liter/Minute is enough, is giving dangerous adivce. Even a scientific study has proven, that this is not enough. People, who give such advices, give you with that the risk of the brain damage. In the meantime I am still investigating their motives why such people give this false advice, because the 15 Liter is proven based on a hoax by Nitschke, so that he could sell and promote his Oxygen equipment, which has been camouflaged as Nitrogen.

 

[luten]

seeing that I am serious about leaving soon ; i tried it out for the first time.

1. 15/LPM on an Oxygen Mask with two vents
2. 25/LPM on non rebreather mask, handheld

With the first attempt I did not feel any drowsiness, I attempted it a few times in this way and started to feel a bit light headed. Then tried it with the nonrebreathing mask at 25 LPM, for a minute +, this time it seemed more potent, yet I did not feel like losing consciousness, i did not have problems getting back onto my feet. I feel a bit dizzy/blind, not as much as expected.

I did not feel suffocated at any moment, as expected. Id say if I gave it another minute or two I would probably have passed out, but that is just not good enough.

Overall experience, disappointed, a now what moment.

 

[FromGermany]

4-6 % remaining O2 in any set is enough for a failure with this method. If it is so hard to become unconsciousness then it is even more harder to hold unconsciousness, which ist the most important part.

As lower the O2 level as faster one can get unconsciousness and as more safer it is to hold that unconsciousness.

As lower the O2 level as faster brain death and also the death of the body.

As longer one will not get unconsciousness as more side effects like nausea can occor or SI can kick in.

Exhaled air does not only contain CO2 but also contains 14 % O2. This also applies to this method. A flow lower than 20 Liter / Minute will slower the removal also of the O2 of the exhaled air.

With this method the O2 level is everything.

If one does not understand that, this method should not be used.

 

[luten]

well done a third test, 25 LPM, via non-rebreather mask. Same result, dizziness no unconsciousness after 1.5 minutes. I was only able to hold the mask with my hand, as if I use the head bands it might no longer be just a test....

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

only mask? with tube for gas inlet, and the 1-way valves for the emission of gas from the mask?