Women?

[ewlife]

It's frustrating when either gender acts like the other gender has everything so much easier than them. Each gender comes with its pros and cons. Either way, sorry you feel that way. Wishing you the best, take care.

Your ignorance is showing. Hatred against women is a systemic issue and is NOT the same as women complaining about sexism.

 

[gorb]

She said he was her lover. In some countries, if a relationship between two parties is proven with evidence within less than six months, it will not be called rape. I think it is revenge. There is no lover who rapes his lover. No one will believe it.

it's considered rape when they dont consent to it, doesn't matter who it is it could be their husband or boyfriend or a completely stranger

 

[Meditation guide]

Are there any other women who's reasons to CTB are because of how the world treats us? With patriarchy (I can feel the eye-roll from a million people every time the word is uttered), our bodies seen as property with no soul inside, our existence and trauma invalidated by our own governments, and us constantly being harassed. Almost every woman has a fucking story of at LEAST harassment-- a large majority of us around the world have been assaulted, and others like me have been raped..... then we're blamed for someone else's evil actions--as victims. And to not be believed because the person has been so convincing to everyone, maybe even you, that they're a wonderful person.

I don't like to go anywhere without a man I trust with me, and even with almost any man there's that tiny bit of skepticism. For that, I'm so sorry to those of you that are truly good men, it's not you, it's the world. I don't hate normal men, I'm just on high alert around most of them, especially when I they're complete strangers.

There are so many amazing men out there, but because of the current numbers and the damage of the bad guys, and my own experience and experiences of others, I feel a strong need to be wary of all of you.

And I would NEVER trust a woman who offers me a "life-changing opportunity". I have to worry she's trying to trick me into being trafficked. Nah, bitch.

And those in power that could do something, won't. In fact, something happens right in front of people's faces, and they'll actively turn away. Some people that DO do something, get in trouble.

Then there's sack-of-shit women who lie and use it to ruin someone's life and have their own benefits (We know after they've been caught--i wouldn't make this assumption anytime beforehand). They take away from any credibility and seriousness we HAVE gained.

I don't want to be in a world like this, and I don't believe it will change.

I don't want to live with this constant fear and trauma. I also don't want to have this bloodlust for adult sexual predators--I want to kill them and do horrible things to their bodies beforehand. I know it's a fucked up thing to say and would be even more fucked up to do, so I won't. But it's fucked up that the world will do nothing to actually help.

However, this hatred i carry can't seem to be diminished and it's nothing more than a burden. I don't want it.

If any of you have stories of people (or even you) that did something when you saw something, please please tell me so I can have them in mind when I need to calm tf down.

You're all appreciated.

Being raped and used for my body has been a huge part in my ongoing desire to die. I don't think about that much but it's definitely not conducive to leading a happy life.

 

[fkyou]

Sure, I didn't invalidate anything. But go ahead feel like it's an attack. I let my patriarchy get in the way of my judgement, or something like that. Please continue.

This is not a men's thread. This is for women to vent. Respect it. Evasive message. Sorry op.

 

[Engström]

Just going to add this here as a I find it appropriate:

What were you wearing? A project to end victim blaming



I've been raped by both men and a woman. The nightmare never ends, it only hides itself in different parts of my self. I realize more and more I'll only be truly free of the trauma when I am dead.

 

[katara]

For me, it's that as a woman, I have all these physical expectations on me that if I don't meet, I will die alone. I'm not traditionally pretty and k struggle and I'm a bit too intense and intellectual and I've been terrified recently of dying alone.

ikr I see this all the time on twitter, i keep getting these guys showing up on my timeline talking about how women have to settle for these men who hate us. It's so many accounts, i block them but they keep showing up so theres clearly a lot of men who feel this way, which is disappointing. I wish ppl were better. Btw your profile picture is familiar to me but i forget where i remember it from. It's cute! I wish i had a pet bunny tbh, I'd feel a lot less lonely.

While i can understand that, i never said that, and it sure sounds like you're trying to invalidate us. This here post is just specifically about women and a common reason for us to CTB. It's not invalidating men's struggles, obviously we're all here bc of the same thing in the end-- human misery, in all forms.
It's just a post asking women about our own. But for once, can we talk about women without making it about men?
It's just an unfortunate fact that the grand majority of rape is committed by men.

I think its bizarre how fast these guys show up whenever we want to talk about stuff only we deal with. When people make posts about #Mensmentalhealth i never see dozens of responses like WHAT ABOUT WOMENN?? or WOMENS HEALTH MATTERS TOO!
It's like whenever its international womans day, the most searched Google search is "when is international mens day". I don't understand why we can't talk about our issues without people getting mad at us? As if we chose this.. Women make fun of Pearlythings a lot, but clearly a lot of men agree with her. Because even before she was famous a lot of people talked just like her and nobody ever called them out. I don't get why ppl feel such joy in attacking women who aren't messing with anyone or hurting anyone.

 

[CloudyNightSky]

Just going to add this here as a I find it appropriate:

What were you wearing? A project to end victim blaming



I've been raped by both men and a woman. The nightmare never ends, it only hides itself in different parts of my self. I realize more and more I'll only be truly free of the trauma when I am dead.

That's heartbreaking but also kinda lovely that they finally could tell it.
Im sorry for everyone that this also happened to its really painful and often the cause of thinking about ctb. And that really pisses me of. We didn't do anything wrong but still have these thoughts and feel terrible. Life's just so unfair

 

[cryvinglightning]

i've rejected womanhood and girlhood ever since i was ten because i developed much quicker than my peers. i basically experienced ego death and the change in how boys and men will treat you before even getting a period. not to mention the never ending influx of news involving fellow women and girls being brutalized, killed, stripped of their dignity. this isn't a world meant for women, even with everything that feminism has achieved and keeps achieving.

currently i don't define myself as a woman, even though i am afab. my relationship with gender identity is a bit complex and i wonder if it's a consequence of everything i've experienced in my girlhood and keep experiencing in womanhood. i can count on one hand the men in my life that haven't let me down, from mere friends to my own flesh and blood. i don't blame any woman who takes these as reasons to CTB, because life and existence are already hard as is. all i can hope for is for the world to change, but given the state of everything it's just a naive fantasy.

 

[Ε. Η. R.]

With patriarchy our bodies seen as property with no soul inside

I'll tell you a secret, but now in the USA and European countries there is a matriarchy, an era of toxic feminism, but not patriarchy.

 

[CPY]

I think suicide statistics really speak out for themselves on this issue.Sadly the truth won't fit their agenda

 

[Spiritual survivor]

I don't want to ctb because I'm a woman but I definitely feel that because of being a woman in today's society that it is a disadvantage. In the past, women's differences in traits, ability, roles, were respected and acknowledged. These days women are expected to be more like men, and this makes our lives more difficult and can really set us up for disaster.

 

[quanxiswife]

I think suicide statistics really speak out for themselves on this issue.Sadly the truth won't fit their agenda

What do you mean by this?

 

[aura.]

i'll always be angry at the world for how we are treated. i'll always be filled with fucking hate at everything because i see and i know how hard it is to live as a woman in this world. and yes, being a woman is a major part of why i want to ctb.

we are the creators of life and yet they kill us and they torture us everyday as if we aren't the reason any of us exist in the first place. and no, i don't blame our mothers for existence. i blame the rapists and kidnappers and murderers and the big guys in charge running this whole shit show. i blame our existence for making us want to not.

 

[wheretfami]

I'll tell you a secret, but now in the USA and European countries there is a matriarchy, an era of toxic feminism, but not patriarchy.

Are you a dude?

 

[Seered Doom]

As an AFAB trans guy, I would like to add in my thoughts if allowed. I have been abused by both men and women. The harshest was actually by women, but men can be just as cruel. Due to this, not only do I have C-PTSD along with DID and insomnia, but I am also misanthropic and distrusting of anyone and everyone. My biggest reason to CTB is because of all of humanity and society, not just men and not just women. Everyone holding up the neurotypical, cisnormative, and heteronormative society that hates people like me is a pain and passing the buck of guilt and pain onto me and many others by making this a battle of the sexes is just... I am sorry, I can't understand it. Both sides being hurt by opposite genders and sexes, I am sorry you all had to endure that. All of your pain is valid. You all deserve so much better than clawing at each others throats.

 

[wheretfami]

As an AFAB trans guy, I would like to add in my thoughts if allowed. I have been abused by both men and women. The harshest was actually by women, but men can be just as cruel. Due to this, not only do I have C-PTSD along with DID and insomnia, but I am also misanthropic and distrusting of anyone and everyone. My biggest reason to CTB is because of all of humanity and society, not just men and not just women. Everyone holding up the neurotypical, cisnormative, and heteronormative society that hates people like me is a pain and passing the buck of guilt and pain onto me and many others by making this a battle of the sexes is just... I am sorry, I can't understand it. Both sides being hurt by opposite genders and sexes, I am sorry you all had to endure that. All of your pain is valid. You all deserve so much better than clawing at each others throats.

Yes allowed! <3

I'm so sorry for your horrible experience And everything else that came with it. Yes, It's truth that people of all sides can be disgusting and monstrous-- abuse of all kinds is definitely a human thing, not just a gender thing. It's this psychotic idea of control and powerlust that leads someone to do this shit so carelessly and feel fine about it. I was sexually abused by both a woman and a man separately. It's like a person gives up being a person to become a monster instead, what is the appeal in that?? Why would anyone do that? A whole human wouldn't abuse people. Only a reckless monster.
I'm so sorry you've been through this shit.

 

[Seered Doom]

It went to a point that I can't identify myself as a human or anyone that shows an inkling of care or respect as a human for my own comfort. Humans only hurt me. Don't matter the other features they can't control, humans are just deplorable. I don't like any humans. SA'd by both genders and been passed around to the point I'm just an object to use and not even a being.

 

[Ε. Η. R.]

Are you a dude?

No. Transwoman (at least until the transwomans from russians countries themselves wrote me out).

I suffered the most from transwomans from russian countries (commonwealth of independent states). I wrote excerpts of my story on the forum. Don't think I'm transphobic. You can't imagine how dear they were to me. I have shed many tears over the years. But I cannot forgive the absolute hell that they caused me.

I think it's such a thing when transwomans are torture, hounding, misgendering their own kind - possible only in russians countries.
Even now, I don't believe that this is possible in the USA or European countries.

So, if you thought that I was on the side of men - you were mistaken. I have never seen worse mens than russian, ukrainian, belarusian mens.

 

[wheretfami]

No. Transwoman (at least until the transwomans from russians countries themselves wrote me out).

I suffered the most from transwomans from russian countries (commonwealth of independent states). I wrote excerpts of my story on the forum. Don't think I'm transphobic. You can't imagine how dear they were to me. I have shed many tears over the years. But I cannot forgive the absolute hell that they caused me.

I think it's such a thing when transwomans are torture, hounding, misgendering their own kind - possible only in russians countries.
Even now, I don't believe that this is possible in the USA or European countries.

So, if you thought that I was on the side of men - you were mistaken. I have never seen worse mens than russian, ukrainian, belarusian mens.

I jumped to conclusions, I apologize, that was really rude of me. I see what you mean.

 

[DoomValuer]

I could pull up some counterarguments to some of what you've said, but I think we should just keep politics outside of this forum.

 

[Ε. Η. R.]

@wheretfami
Don't worry. You couldn't know.

My "ex" (and only) was a feminist. What in the USA is called a "liberal feminist". 7 months after we met, she showed her true nature.

 

[IfyouareamanWinston]

I see people in this thread saying some things about how men have it bad too or that women can be abusers which is soooo true. There is also standards and treatment that men endure that is unfair and wrong too just for being male in the world not to mention the lgbt community that just gets othered for existing.

However to speak to the experience of women and why this thread rings so true for me and others: When you grow up as a girl into a woman. Everyone including your own mother treats you like shit for your gender ( maybe the exp. is getting better for young girls today idk). You are being told how you are not as capable of some things and how you should only like or pursue things meant for women. I was gifted a Barbie for every fucking birthday and Christmas despite my constant and consistent demand that I did not want or like them. You need to help with the cleaning because its expected that you will do these things as a women.

Your father despite being kind and caring and loving parent is telling you that you must dress in these ways and that no one wants to watch women's sports. At the same time as this is happening and you are either fawning and accepting or like so many of us enraged and railing against this unfair treatments which gets you labeled as a bad kid. Then you are also being ogled and sexualised by men who are old and creepy or predator's in their 20s or 30s. In ever aspect of your life from extended family to school staff to strangers at a store, men are staring at your parts to the point you cannot just exist without yourself having to sexulize your own body to just dress appropriately or feel safe.
Cat called at 11 and 12 yo just walking down the street. Told by your own mother you are dressing like a tramp for wearing the clothing and fashions of your peers because your torso is long and you belly shows a inch or two if you dare to raise up your arms. Your peers are talking about the girls that develop early, what is her bra size? Why does Jake from 3rd period know your cup size? If you develop late you feel less than, you are told you 'look like a boy' etc. Girls are jealous of how 'thin' you look.

All the while you start to feel that you are wrong that you have done something wrong. Do you deserve to be treated this way? Whatever conclusion you draw it impacts your life, the choices you make. Could you have excelled at sports? Could you have taken a more math and science intensive course of study? Did you reject motherhood or becoming a parent because you fear people loosing a respect for you?


I am not saying men don't experience any of these things either. I think the difference is that its a fundamental part of girlhood. Its inescapable for us. We know women who were raped, emotionally manipulated, mothers that were abused. Even if we don't experience some of it we are told we experience it, we are shown through media and social stigmas that we are objects. That's what we wish for you to understand and empathize with.

Men have traumas from society standards and we should talk about this as well but saying 'well men have traumas too and they suffer as well' is a bit of a cop out to the conversation rather then to hear and validate this almost universal experience for women.

 

[quanxiswife]

I see people in this thread saying some things about how men have it bad too or that women can be abusers which is soooo true. There is also standards and treatment that men endure that is unfair and wrong too just for being male in the world not to mention the lgbt community that just gets othered for existing.

However to speak to the experience of women and why this thread rings so true for me and others: When you grow up as a girl into a woman. Everyone including your own mother treats you like shit for your gender ( maybe the exp. is getting better for young girls today idk). You are being told how you are not as capable of some things and how you should only like or pursue things meant for women. I was gifted a Barbie for every fucking birthday and Christmas despite my constant and consistent demand that I did not want or like them. You need to help with the cleaning because its expected that you will do these things as a women.

Your father despite being kind and caring and loving parent is telling you that you must dress in these ways and that no one wants to watch women's sports. At the same time as this is happening and you are either fawning and accepting or like so many of us enraged and railing against this unfair treatments which gets you labeled as a bad kid. Then you are also being ogled and sexualised by men who are old and creepy or predator's in their 20s or 30s. In ever aspect of your life from extended family to school staff to strangers at a store, men are staring at your parts to the point you cannot just exist without yourself having to sexulize your own body to just dress appropriately or feel safe.
Cat called at 11 and 12 yo just walking down the street. Told by your own mother you are dressing like a tramp for wearing the clothing and fashions of your peers because your torso is long and you belly shows a inch or two if you dare to raise up your arms. Your peers are talking about the girls that develop early, what is her bra size? Why does Jake from 3rd period know your cup size? If you develop late you feel less than, you are told you 'look like a boy' etc. Girls are jealous of how 'thin' you look.

All the while you start to feel that you are wrong that you have done something wrong. Do you deserve to be treated this way? Whatever conclusion you draw it impacts your life, the choices you make. Could you have excelled at sports? Could you have taken a more math and science intensive course of study? Did you reject motherhood or becoming a parent because you fear people loosing a respect for you?


I am not saying men don't experience any of these things either. I think the difference is that its a fundamental part of girlhood. Its inescapable for us. We know women who were raped, emotionally manipulated, mothers that were abused. Even if we don't experience some of it we are told we experience it, we are shown through media and social stigmas that we are objects. That's what we wish for you to understand and empathize with.

Men have traumas from society standards and we should talk about this as well but saying 'well men have traumas too and they suffer as well' is a bit of a cop out to the conversation rather then to hear and validate this almost universal experience for women.

It's hilarious because these issues that men face are rarely brought up by them unless it's to downplay misogyny. It's also unfortunate because a lot of the societal issues that men face are caused by misogyny. Many male stigmas exist because nothing is worse, socially, than being similar to a woman.

 

[hellispink]

This world is crazy and unfair. Everything is crazy. We can't control nothing, nothing at all. The world has been like that since it existed. Its how humans are .

 

[Life Is My Coffin]

When people make posts about #Mensmentalhealth i never see dozens of responses like WHAT ABOUT WOMENN?? or WOMENS HEALTH MATTERS TOO!

What's funny is i've actually literally seen stuff like that before. Many times

 

[Rhizomorph1]

It's frustrating when either gender acts like the other gender has everything so much easier than them. Each gender comes with its pros and cons. Either way, sorry you feel that way. Wishing you the best, take care.

There are objectively macrosociological differences in the way women are treated and viewed culturally demonstrated by aggregated data.

The problem is that sentimental statements don't bifurcate (separate) micro- vs. macro- dynamics (see figure below) so the pro- and anti-feminist perspectives will both jump to defend their respective view (falsely) assuming the referent denotes one scale or the other.



In general, the feminist sentiment that women have it worse is more true if we incorporate both the macro and micro spheres of social influence. This is because the dominant culture of sexism plays a socially coercive role over every individual interaction (top-down structural influence), whereas not every individual interaction plays nearly the same coercive role on the dominant culture (bottom-up influence).

Asymmetrical power dynamics are paramount and warrant mention in any individual or structural context. Assuming an equal playing field denies the material reality of social stratification and top-down hegemony, even if "men suffer too".

Bifurcating the micro- and macro- helps contextualize how men suffer under patriarchy too. That is, through the repetition and performance of gendered social norms; e.g., men not displaying or discussing emotions. However, these social norms are peripheral functions of the primary social construction of women as fragile and emotional (i.e., irrational); narratives which primarily serve to maintain patriarchy.

So men can be liberated too by opposing patriarchal values. Thus the unfortunate irony of anti-feminist perspectives; they are digging the hole of men's mental illness, isolation, etc. deeper.

Hope this helps clarify.

Source: 5+ years of reading and producing sociological, social psychology, & epidemiological research data.

 

[Anónimo]

Since this thread has become a mess I will say both sexes experience lots of discrimination. Surprisingly, men are also seen as objects even almost as much as women. In many countries it is common for men to get their genitals mutilated (circumcision), and when a war emerges, the drafted people are mandatorily men (even if women were at power, men would be the ones called to fight). There's also the phenomenom of men not being taken seriously when their bodies are touched, attacked, invaded, which ironically leads to them speaking out less about it. I'm saying all this cause I see a fellow man getting seemingly attacked in the comments for stating that both sexes face problems. But I do agree that women also face most of sexual-related attacks, which I'm very sorry about.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Since this thread has become a mess I will say both sexes experience lots of discrimination. Surprisingly, men are also seen as objects even almost as much as women. In many countries it is common for men to get their genitals mutilated (circumcision), and when a war emerges, the drafted people are mandatorily men (even if women were at power, men would be the ones called to fight). There's also the phenomenom of men not being taken seriously when their bodies are touched, attacked, invaded, which ironically leads to them speaking out less about it. I'm saying all this cause I see a fellow man getting seemingly attacked in the comments for stating that both sexes face problems. But I do agree that women also face most of sexual-related attacks, which I'm very sorry about.

I think it's worth looking at aggregate research statistics on social facts rather just the face-value interpretations of this thread. There's a proportion of truth in what you've said, but in the cultural sea of ignorance, these ideas which insinuate power neutrality have been weaponized against women who are objectively disproportionately marginalized and disenfranchised.

Any exceptions need to take place in very sensitive social "containers" of sociological analysis so as to not blur the lines between cultural relativity and cultural universalism. Micro-macro dialectics must be considered and I'd be concerned about discussions concerning sub-cultural exceptions without (a) the subaltern present and (b) the language needed to contextualize these respective exceptions within real-world boundaries of the social scale they exist within.

Frameworks are necessary to allocate proportional variance of harm where due to the actual social location (that is micro- meso- & macro-, structural vs individual autonomy, dominant vs. sub culture, high vs. popular culture, political vs economic, etc. etc.).

Generalized statements of subjective perspective is going to miss the mark due to the lack of specificity, the role of intuitive face-value bias, etc.

For this reason I encourage people to refrain from judgment and simply trust in the models. Unless you speak spanish, don't try to make an expert opinion on spanish. Just as such, we are not born sociologically competent; it must be learned.

I apologize for my pedantic language; I just don't have the time to define each term and it's impossible to describe without specialized language because post-industrial globalized phenomena are impossible to characterize without language to describe the scale and multiple intersections with other phenomena it exists on. Occam's razor (simplification) cuts both ways.

It necessitates a sociological imagination, a skill most people do not have

 

[Anónimo]

I think it's worth looking at aggregate research statistics on social facts rather just the face-value interpretations of this thread. There's a proportion of truth in what you've said, but in the cultural sea of ignorance, these ideas which insinuate power neutrality have been weaponized against women who are objectively disproportionately marginalized and disenfranchised.

Any exceptions need to take place in very sensitive social "containers" of sociological analysis so as to not blur the lines between cultural relativity and cultural universalism. Micro-macro dialectics must be considered and I'd be concerned about discussions concerning sub-cultural exceptions without (a) the subaltern present and (b) the language needed to contextualize these respective exceptions within real-world boundaries of the social scale they exist within.

Frameworks are necessary to allocate proportional variance of harm where due to the actual social location (that is micro- meso- & macro-, structural vs individual autonomy, dominant vs. sub culture, high vs. popular culture, political vs economic, etc. etc.).

Generalized statements of subjective perspective is going to miss the mark due to the lack of specificity, the role of intuitive face-value bias, etc.

For this reason I encourage people to refrain from judgment and simply trust in the models. Unless you speak spanish, don't try to make an expert opinion on spanish. Just as such, we are not born sociologically competent; it must be learned.

I apologize for my pedantic language; I just don't have the time to define each term and it's impossible to describe without specialized language because post-industrial globalized phenomena are impossible to characterize without language to describe the scale and multiple intersections with other phenomena it exists on. Occam's razor (simplification) cuts both ways.

It necessitates a sociological imagination, a skill most people do not have

Thanks for the reply

 

[almondmilk]

Are there any other women who's reasons to CTB are because of how the world treats us? With patriarchy (I can feel the eye-roll from a million people every time the word is uttered), our bodies seen as property with no soul inside, our existence and trauma invalidated by our own governments, and us constantly being harassed. Almost every woman has a fucking story of at LEAST harassment-- a large majority of us around the world have been assaulted, and others like me have been raped..... then we're blamed for someone else's evil actions--as victims. And to not be believed because the person has been so convincing to everyone, maybe even you, that they're a wonderful person.

I don't like to go anywhere without a man I trust with me, and even with almost any man there's that tiny bit of skepticism. For that, I'm so sorry to those of you that are truly good men, it's not you, it's the world. I don't hate normal men, I'm just on high alert around most of them, especially when I they're complete strangers.

There are so many amazing men out there, but because of the current numbers and the damage of the bad guys, and my own experience and experiences of others, I feel a strong need to be wary of all of you.

And I would NEVER trust a woman who offers me a "life-changing opportunity". I have to worry she's trying to trick me into being trafficked. Nah, bitch.

And those in power that could do something, won't. In fact, something happens right in front of people's faces, and they'll actively turn away. Some people that DO do something, get in trouble.

Then there's sack-of-shit women who lie and use it to ruin someone's life and have their own benefits (We know after they've been caught--i wouldn't make this assumption anytime beforehand). They take away from any credibility and seriousness we HAVE gained.

I don't want to be in a world like this, and I don't believe it will change.

I don't want to live with this constant fear and trauma. I also don't want to have this bloodlust for adult sexual predators--I want to kill them and do horrible things to their bodies beforehand. I know it's a fucked up thing to say and would be even more fucked up to do, so I won't. But it's fucked up that the world will do nothing to actually help.

However, this hatred i carry can't seem to be diminished and it's nothing more than a burden. I don't want it.

If any of you have stories of people (or even you) that did something when you saw something, please please tell me so I can have them in mind when I need to calm tf down.

You're all appreciated.

100% agree