Discussion Why suicide is a crime (apparently)

[GettingOut]

Just heard a professor say suicide is considered a crime because of the destruction and devastation it leaves in its wake. Surviving relatives and loved ones are scarred for life, and this is unacceptable.

If suicide is such a evil, then why not focus on eradicating things that lead to suicide? Why aren't things that cause childhood trauma a crime? What isn't it a crime to withhold medical treatment to persons who desperately need it, just because they cannot afford it? Why aren't they stricter on the atrocities that take place in psych wards? Why are the victims of life being penalised and forced to endure mental torture?

People want a scapegoat that can easily be blamed and identified in the most affordable way. They love making money, being admired for their prestigious reputation and degrading helpless victims.

What do you think?

 

[swaraj]

If suicide starts getting treated like a choice and a right most of the power structures that enable exploitation and abuse, will crumble.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

It's not a crime because nobody who committed suicide will be punished for that, anyway they can't be punished according to law anymore. I think he means it's a crime because it causes grief and suffering for loved ones, family, friends. But this is temporary and it's either they are suffering for some time or oneself is suffering for all his life unless the problems leading to suicide could be solved. In most cases they can't.

There must be a change in the way how death itself is seen among the society to understand that some people just want to leave this world.

 

[AntHills]

The American economy literally encourages suicide. You can buy a functional firearm + ammunition for $300 - $500 retail. But if you need the help of a doctor, dentist, or psychiatrist, you're looking at thousands of dollars, which isn't affordable for the majority of the population, so most people end up paying at least a few hundred a month for insurance, which prevents them from ever getting ahead, and may not even cover the type of treatment that they need. If you want to cover all of your basic necessities, you need to make more money than most companies are willing to pay you for full time employment. Which means either working 60-80 hours a week, getting a government job, getting money from somebody else, or becoming a criminal. It's pretty ironic how the capitalist conservatives that perpetuate and maintain this system make up the majority of vocally active pro-lifers.

 

[Ondine0000ff]

This is the most absurd statement i heard in a long time. Because if it causes grief or whatever, means they loved the suicidal person, but on the other hand they were not able to help the person?? Give me a break. Either they love the person and help them, talk to them, spend time with them or didn't care enough and stop whining.

 

[FindingHome]

Why should people be forced to live for friends and family and continue their suffering in order to live for others.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's not a crime because nobody who committed suicide will be punished for that, anyway they can't be punished according to law anymore. I think he means it's a crime because it causes grief and suffering for loved ones, family, friends. But this is temporary and it's either they are suffering for some time or oneself is suffering for all his life unless the problems leading to suicide could be solved. In most cases they can't.

There must be a change in the way how death itself is seen among the society to understand that some people just want to leave this world.

Yeah- I agree- in the OP's post they are refering to it being a 'crime' more in the terms of it being a devastating act.

I find it interesting though that it's only comparitively recently been de-criminalised. There was an act passed in 1961 in the UK. That's only within some of our parents lifetimes. Not really that long ago at all. In some countries- it is still considered illegal! Google suggests 20 countries. Plus- it's still TREATED as an illegal act. You'll likely be involuntarily incarcerated if you get caught trying to do it and I imagine that goes on some sort of record. But- I find it fascinating. Did people prior to it becoming legalised just accept that their lives belonged to the state?!!

But yeah- I agree with the OP. Suicide is a symptom. It points towards things being VERY wrong in society/ that person's life. And- despite that- our lives DO belong to us. Yes- of course it's awful that suicide causes devastation in families but- if the families actually knew how much their loved one was suffering- wouldn't the less selfish thing to do be to either help them- or, let them go? I imagine most families don't really get the chance for that though because we exist in a culture where we daren't even discuss it. Besides that though- I also agree with the OP- people should be looking at what causes it!

Ultimately- the initial birth of an independant life sets in motion the real possibility that that life will develop in ways that displease and hurt the parent. They ought to be aware and accept that when they take on that responsibility. They are creating an INDEPENDANT life. If they don't think they can cope with the very real chance their child may develop depression or any other number of mental and physical illnesses- they shouldn't have children to begin with! If they want absolute loyalty and obedience. Something that will never disappoint them or die- they shouldn't be looking for something with a will of its own. Better to get an AI virtual child or something!

 

[DarkFriend.]

Sometimes I wonder if there's some rainbow-and-unicorn world waiting beyond. A place where the rivers flow with gold rum and the mountain creeks run with aged whiskey. A place where we can just kick back and relax and do whatever the fuck we want.

Of course it's probably nothing like that. But then again how the hell do I know? I'm still here, after all

The living can concern themselves with the question of crime.

 

[swaraj]

It's not a crime because nobody who committed suicide will be punished for that

It is a crime in many countries of the world. In my country it was dealt with the Mental Healthcare Act in 2017 which has put suicide in a grey area. Till as late as 2017 suicide was a crime in the largest democracy.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

It is a crime in many countries of the world. In my country it was dealt with the Mental Healthcare Act in 2017 which has put suicide in a grey area. Till as late as 2017 suicide was a crime in the largest democracy.

Being sent into a psych ward after an attempt is the crime itself because that doesn't solve the actual problem why someone attempted! This is the actual crime here. Well yes you are right several jurisdictions may define suicide as a crime. But against whom? The own life? I wasn't ask for my life wasn't that a crime too? But that will lead us into a discussion that was held so many times here already.

I find it interesting though that it's only comparitively recently been de-criminalised. There was an act passed in 1961 in the UK. That's only within some of our parents lifetimes. Not really that long ago at all. In some countries- it is still considered illegal! Google suggests 20 countries. Plus- it's still TREATED as an illegal act. You'll likely be involuntarily incarcerated if you get caught trying to do it and I imagine that goes on some sort of record. But- I find it fascinating. Did people prior to it becoming legalised just accept that their lives belonged to the state?!!

I think the main reason for it to be a "criminal act / illegal" have religious backgrounds. And as I always say religions are man made and indoctrinated believes to control the masses by fear. Suicide wasn't a crime or illegal in ancient times rather it was an honorable way to exit instead of becoming a slave or being humiliated!!!

 

[SexyIncél]

Just heard a professor say suicide is considered a crime because of the destruction and devastation it leaves in its wake. Surviving relatives and loved ones are scarred for life, and this is unacceptable.

What I suspect...

abstractly: People have a dual nature — as individual minds & part of group minds. Mainstream group minds are hurt when someone quits. This hurt manifests as displays of suffering in members who enforce/enable norms. ("Normies")

Such group minds act ok when they intentionally murder you, or unintentionally through not caring. Ironically, they're typically suicidal, as we see with global warming & nukes. But the irony's usually lost on them

specifically: Suicides make families look bad. And many societies use a patriarch's authority as a model/basis for other institutions. Like governments & corporations: someone on top runs it like their household. So suicides make families look bad; maybe the other similar ones too

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

The American economy literally encourages suicide. You can buy a functional firearm + ammunition for $300 - $500 retail. But if you need the help of a doctor, dentist, or psychiatrist, you're looking at thousands of dollars, which isn't affordable for the majority of the population, so most people end up paying at least a few hundred a month for insurance, which prevents them from ever getting ahead, and may not even cover the type of treatment that they need. If you want to cover all of your basic necessities, you need to make more money than most companies are willing to pay you for full time employment. Which means either working 60-80 hours a week, getting a government job, getting money from somebody else, or becoming a criminal. It's pretty ironic how the capitalist conservatives that perpetuate and maintain this system make up the majority of vocally active pro-lifers.

Believe me you dont even need $300 for a gun. Ive been around guns my whole life but when I went to the gun store to buy one to ctb I was shocked at how cheap they are. The cheapest shotgun I saw was a used 12ga for $150. I ended up buying one that was $240.

 

[FuneralCry]

No matter what other people say, nobody is obligated to continue enduring this existence they were burdened with, it's disgusting to insist that other people must stay a slave to their suffering, imprisoned in this existence until they die anyway.

If people don't wish to deal with loss then they shouldn't force life here in the first place, all humans have a right to die. And what about the devastation procreation causes? as it's undeniable that procreation is the ultimate source of all harm and suffering in the first place.

I see trying to force people to suffer when they want to die as being the criminal thing instead, it's criminal to deny one from making a decision in which they have every right to make, all humans deserve to have the option to peacefully and permanently escape from this world filled with endless torment and cruelty.

 

[front of me]

I really don't know in some countries

 

[AntHills]

Believe me you dont even need $300 for a gun. Ive been around guns my whole life but when I went to the gun store to buy one to ctb I was shocked at how cheap they are. The cheapest shotgun I saw was a used 12ga for $150. I ended up buying one that was $240.

I swear I meant to type $200 not $300, thank you for the correction. I bought mine for $229 and ended up spending about $270 after ammo and range time.

 

[XenoPyo]

I did not know CTB was a crime until I was admitted. Went through 2 weeks of ward time and pissed off.

 

[TAW122]

Sure, it isn't a "crime" in the context of the legal definition (like being sentenced to jail/prison - except for breaking the law during an attempt or intervention), but it is treated as though it is a "crime". I would think that it is treated (de facto) as a crime which gives the State the authority to intervene against one's wishes and to be able to make decisions for said person even if said person isn't around. It is nothing more than benevolent paternalism, and it is unsettling. Others on here have already given good responses and explanations so I won't delve too much/elaborate on those.

Keep in mind I too find this problematic and by no means am I dismissing nor downplaying how horrible it is that suicide while not illegal is (de facto) treated as though it is (illegal and) a crime.

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

I swear I meant to type $200 not $300, thank you for the correction. I bought mine for $229 and ended up spending about $270 after ammo and range time.

Which gun did you choose?

 

[GettingOut]

Yes- of course it's awful that suicide causes devastation in families but- if the families actually knew how much their loved one was suffering- wouldn't the less selfish thing to do be to either help them- or, let them go?

Most people are probably indifferent because our pain is invisible. If we had physical wounds to match our mental wounds, people would be a lot more understanding and caring. If a wound doesn't heal and becomes septic, people are more understanding about the healing period and are more supportive.

If we still look normal on the outside, people think we are only seeking attention. They can't be bothered 'wasting' their precious energy on us, because they need it to deal with their own problems.

After being disappointed, I've found myself thinking: "This person has no idea that my life is on the line." Nobody wants to be a burden. It only makes sense that I remove myself from the picture. They might be sad for a while, but they would be a lot worse off if they were forced to help me regain my happiness.

 

[gov]

Just heard a professor say suicide is considered a crime because of the destruction and devastation it leaves in its wake. Surviving relatives and loved ones are scarred for life, and this is unacceptable.

If suicide is such a evil, then why not focus on eradicating things that lead to suicide? Why aren't things that cause childhood trauma a crime? What isn't it a crime to withhold medical treatment to persons who desperately need it, just because they cannot afford it? Why aren't they stricter on the atrocities that take place in psych wards? Why are the victims of life being penalised and forced to endure mental torture?

People want a scapegoat that can easily be blamed and identified in the most affordable way. They love making money, being admired for their prestigious reputation and degrading helpless victims.

What do you think?

That professor is a fucking bitch

 

[moonseeker]

Just heard a professor say suicide is considered a crime because of the destruction and devastation it leaves in its wake. Surviving relatives and loved ones are scarred for life, and this is unacceptable.

If suicide is such a evil, then why not focus on eradicating things that lead to suicide? Why aren't things that cause childhood trauma a crime? What isn't it a crime to withhold medical treatment to persons who desperately need it, just because they cannot afford it? Why aren't they stricter on the atrocities that take place in psych wards? Why are the victims of life being penalised and forced to endure mental torture?

People want a scapegoat that can easily be blamed and identified in the most affordable way. They love making money, being admired for their prestigious reputation and degrading helpless victims.

What do you think?

What if I died in an accident instead ? My family will still suffer the same loss. Is it me not existing anymore that's causing suffering ? Did I commit a crime in this case ? I should have more freedom over my own body than random fate. I never chose to be born and I'm held as a prisoner in my own body. Isn't giving birth to me, knowing that my life may be pain and suffering, not a crime ?
Do you think our family and friends enjoy the company of someone miserable and depressed ? Maybe it only makes their lifes more miserable us alive than dead.
Hurting someone's feeling is not a crime and is not unethical, for example : If I say something that someone so fundamentally disagrees with, that it hurts their feelings, traumatises them and scars them for life, it shouldn't be considered a crime. We all have opposing and different ways of looking at things, does it mean we're all criminals ? If a murderer wants to kill you, and you not letting him do that will hurt his feelings and traumatize him for life, should you stop being a criminal and let him kill you ?

 

[ARW3N]

The American economy literally encourages suicide. You can buy a functional firearm + ammunition for $300 - $500 retail. But if you need the help of a doctor, dentist, or psychiatrist, you're looking at thousands of dollars, which isn't affordable for the majority of the population, so most people end up paying at least a few hundred a month for insurance, which prevents them from ever getting ahead, and may not even cover the type of treatment that they need. If you want to cover all of your basic necessities, you need to make more money than most companies are willing to pay you for full time employment. Which means either working 60-80 hours a week, getting a government job, getting money from somebody else, or becoming a criminal. It's pretty ironic how the capitalist conservatives that perpetuate and maintain this system make up the majority of vocally active pro-lifers.

This is probably the best thing that I've read on the forum which is why I envy Americans. We simply don't have such easy access to firearms and the means to end your life anywhere else in the world.

 

[Meditation guide]

If you even mention you are thinking about suicide to a doctor or psychiatrist you get immediately sent off to a mental ward. And are locked in and cannot get out. So it's a crime to talk about it, at least in the U.S.
Only not technically a crime since "they are doing it for your own good".

 

[GettingOut]

Only not technically a crime since "they are doing it for your own good".

Wrong, they are doing it for their own good!

They do nothing to comfort the person or help them mend their broken minds or hearts. It is more a case of "If you don't fix your screwed up thinking, we will take away the little bit of joy you have, pump you full of drugs so you are a zombie, absolutely ruin your reputation so that even less people will reach out for genuine friendship and we will send you the invoice too."

They don't do anything for the victim! They only try make themselves feel better and generate an income from it too. It is completely f***ed up!