thealteredmind
Experienced
- Apr 2, 2024
- 230
devils~advocate
Experienced
- Feb 29, 2024
- 245
This topic is a one that has a long philosophical lineage. There's been so much discussion about it, that it would take a life time to just be introduced to it all.
None the less, there are so many inconsistencies and incompatibilities between all the various religions over time as well. One has to understand that there have been many religions that have come and gone throughout the ages. How do we know which is true? They all say they are the truth. But they can't all be.
For a lot of Westerners, why make a group of desert peoples the chosen ones....and why would the belief systems that my ancient European ancestors had not be as valid?
Its a complex history to why that is & why the history of peoples formed the way they did.
Then along with that, with the way the universe has formed and its size, the chances good enough for there to be intelligent life elsewhere. I have a hard time accepting that one small group of peoples is the pivot point for all of humanity.
I know its not a an easy thing to give this all up. I had to struggle with it for a long time. I felt that I was losing my connection to my family & past loved ones since it bound us together. But once you get introduced to enough information....Im not sure one can ever go back.
None the less, there are so many inconsistencies and incompatibilities between all the various religions over time as well. One has to understand that there have been many religions that have come and gone throughout the ages. How do we know which is true? They all say they are the truth. But they can't all be.
For a lot of Westerners, why make a group of desert peoples the chosen ones....and why would the belief systems that my ancient European ancestors had not be as valid?
Its a complex history to why that is & why the history of peoples formed the way they did.
Then along with that, with the way the universe has formed and its size, the chances good enough for there to be intelligent life elsewhere. I have a hard time accepting that one small group of peoples is the pivot point for all of humanity.
I know its not a an easy thing to give this all up. I had to struggle with it for a long time. I felt that I was losing my connection to my family & past loved ones since it bound us together. But once you get introduced to enough information....Im not sure one can ever go back.
I failed to understand how this addresses me, or anything I specifically stated. Most importantly you outright ignored the questions I asked with questions marks. While also stating that you see my questions. How does that make sense?
To me it looks like you tried to address the abuses of the old testament? Which is something I have no interest in hearing about. Especially if you're going to insult you and me both by saying our brains aren't smart enough to understand. This is abuse. Mental abuse specifically when you talk down to anyone, even yourself, saying our brains are too dumb to get it. You may find words to word it nicer. Such as we are not skilled to understand. But it's essentially the same message.
Do you care at all to address what I asked about you previously mentioning evidence? I asked for you to elaborate in response to you saying "Will you accept the possibility that there could be some evidence? We're just completely separated from it." But.wince you won't, I will. All you did there was define agnosticism. Just cause it makes sense to be agnostic. Doesn't at all mean your religion is true. What matters is presentable, repeatable evidence.
Not stories about what other people hallucinated. Anyone can make up any story and they do. If this were considered evidence then all religions would be considered true. Which isn't possible as they are contradictory to each other. Therefore, personal stories aren't evidence.
Same with near death "spiritual" experience. They're just individual hallucinating nations likely caused by our brains store of DMT. Because not all NDE's are Christian and about heaven and hell. When most religious people have an NDE their hallucinations line up with their chosen religion. If God and the Bible were real and NDE's were actually spiritual. They would all line up with the one true religion. But they don't because there is no one true religion. Each and every religion is false.
Having had a few NDEs and spiritual awakenings, I can tell you that Torah and collected works is the one true word of G-d, all other religions are iterations thereof and contained within the soul of Torah, and the Christian Bible and collected works as well as the Islamic Qurran and collected works are both evolutions of the original true word. The Christian version has become corrupt and twisted, and now sees man as godly, which only serves to disconnect us from the universe (and will lead to our doom); The Islamic version is much the same, but at the least Jews and Muslims pray to the same G-d.
Everything is contained within Torah.
Everything is contained within Torah.
Illegal Preclear
The CEO of CTB
- Sep 6, 2022
- 226
Let me preface this by saying I'm truly not trying to be offensive to anyone, as I respect everyone here. I also won't be offended if you read my words and just say "aww sweet, a Schizo thread" - I'm very used to that in life.
My religious and spiritual beliefs are....what I have observed in my life. However, that perspective comes from being born into ultra wealth and Power and having seen with my own eyes levels of human abject evil that not many get to see. That's not a brag. When you're born into the kind of family I was, you have dues to pay as soon as you're born and in my case that was being used for CP.
I mention that because it has to do with the way this Planet, or let's call it our 'corner of existence' works. The only way to achieve Power in this corner of existence is to commit acts of extreme evil.
OP mentioned that the only way to survive is to eat other living things - plants are also alive. You must consume organic material to live whether it's plants or animals. That's existence in this world on the micro scale. Nothing can live without sacrificing something else. On the macro scale - you have world leaders r*ping and killing kids, fomenting wars, concentrating wealth so much of Earth's population lives in poverty and children starve etc. etc. Karma is REVERSED in our corner of existence.
The God Yahweh (though I'm sure he has many names) - I've come to the conclusion is a Demon God. Whatever God that is in charge of this corner of existence is thoroughly demonic. Or perhaps Satan locked God out of his own Creation hundreds of millions of years ago and has been parading around as God every since. Either way the "Entity in charge" of this corner of existence is no bueno.
If the first thing an Entity has you do to pledge fealty to him is have you mutilate your son's penis - that's a big fat red flag you might just be getting played by a Demon.
The path of Yahweh doesn't go Old Testament -> New Testament -> Islam, it goes Old Testament -> Talmud -> Zohar/Kabbalah. Kabbalah and all manner of Kabbalistic Occultism is what my family practiced - to the point where the name they gave me equals 666 in Gematria. I've seen Demonology and the practice of Black Magick at work with my own eyes. Problems that ruin the lives of average or even well above average people roll right off my family's backs. Cancer in my family goes away like the common cold. All my relatives live to be in their late 90s to 100s. They've committed acts of evil beyond imagination but they'll face no punishment for it, only consolidate more Power.
But even if you stick to the Old Testament, Yahweh does so many things that only make sense if he's a Lord of Demons.
Ever see Star Trek V: The Final Frontier? "WHAT DOES GOD NEED WITH A STARSHIP?"
The Old Testament is filled with "WHAT DOES GOD NEED WITH A STARSHIP"? moments.
Yahweh: "I'm omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent but I need you to build me a Golden Tabernacle." Dafuq does this omnipotent Entity need with a Golden Tabernacle? For that matter - Why dafuq does this Entity need me to sacrifice my first born son? And why is this Entity rewarding me for doing evil? Why dafuq is this Entity telling me to get my own daughters pregnant? It's almost like this Entity needs Earthly people to commit unconscionable acts for some Dark Purpose.
Even if Yahweh created Man it was for a Dark Purpose. Demons need physical Avatars to embody to have any influence on existence. Why would an omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent God who is Perfect in his wholeness NEED to create little physical people?
Read the Book of Enoch, the Book of Raziel, and any other Apocrypha you can get your hands on. According to the Book of Enoch - one of the first things that happened on this Planet that caused the Days of Noah to be so wacky was that The Watchers (Archdemons) came down to Earth and taught humans all manner of Black Magick.
Jesus was crucified because he tried to tell people that this corner of existence is basically a prison governed by Demons. Christianity on this Planet is so corrupt it's unrecognizable from anything Jesus wanted or intended.
Why am I going into all this on this particular forum? Because it's my personal belief (and I STRESS that this is my PERSONAL belief) That CTB specifically is the way out of this prison, this locked-down corner of existence, this Demonic realm.
There's something about the act of CTB that the powerful elite really don't like. Folks seem to believe that the powerful elite are all about death and wanting to kill everyone, and they do put on that front to traumatize people, but it's not what they're about. It's deeper than that. They'll go on stage and grandstand about how we need more than half the Earth's population to die to save the planet - and yet suicide is seen as SO TABOO you can't even look for scenes of fictional movies that happen to have a suicide in them without Youtube putting a huge warning block up with 988 on it. Really makes you go hmmmmmm.
I believe the act of CTB is the complete renunciation of this Demonic corner of existence and the ultimate leap of faith. Truly, there is no greater leap of faith than to plunge yourself into "the undiscovered country" to which no human knows anything about, knowing there could be nothing on the other side but oblivion.
Given my state of advanced disability, I don't mind if the only thing on the other side is oblivion and everything I said is wrong, but if I'm right I plan to spit in eye of whatever Demonic Entity is claiming to be the "God" of this corner of existence.
My religious and spiritual beliefs are....what I have observed in my life. However, that perspective comes from being born into ultra wealth and Power and having seen with my own eyes levels of human abject evil that not many get to see. That's not a brag. When you're born into the kind of family I was, you have dues to pay as soon as you're born and in my case that was being used for CP.
I mention that because it has to do with the way this Planet, or let's call it our 'corner of existence' works. The only way to achieve Power in this corner of existence is to commit acts of extreme evil.
OP mentioned that the only way to survive is to eat other living things - plants are also alive. You must consume organic material to live whether it's plants or animals. That's existence in this world on the micro scale. Nothing can live without sacrificing something else. On the macro scale - you have world leaders r*ping and killing kids, fomenting wars, concentrating wealth so much of Earth's population lives in poverty and children starve etc. etc. Karma is REVERSED in our corner of existence.
The God Yahweh (though I'm sure he has many names) - I've come to the conclusion is a Demon God. Whatever God that is in charge of this corner of existence is thoroughly demonic. Or perhaps Satan locked God out of his own Creation hundreds of millions of years ago and has been parading around as God every since. Either way the "Entity in charge" of this corner of existence is no bueno.
If the first thing an Entity has you do to pledge fealty to him is have you mutilate your son's penis - that's a big fat red flag you might just be getting played by a Demon.
The path of Yahweh doesn't go Old Testament -> New Testament -> Islam, it goes Old Testament -> Talmud -> Zohar/Kabbalah. Kabbalah and all manner of Kabbalistic Occultism is what my family practiced - to the point where the name they gave me equals 666 in Gematria. I've seen Demonology and the practice of Black Magick at work with my own eyes. Problems that ruin the lives of average or even well above average people roll right off my family's backs. Cancer in my family goes away like the common cold. All my relatives live to be in their late 90s to 100s. They've committed acts of evil beyond imagination but they'll face no punishment for it, only consolidate more Power.
But even if you stick to the Old Testament, Yahweh does so many things that only make sense if he's a Lord of Demons.
Ever see Star Trek V: The Final Frontier? "WHAT DOES GOD NEED WITH A STARSHIP?"
The Old Testament is filled with "WHAT DOES GOD NEED WITH A STARSHIP"? moments.
Yahweh: "I'm omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent but I need you to build me a Golden Tabernacle." Dafuq does this omnipotent Entity need with a Golden Tabernacle? For that matter - Why dafuq does this Entity need me to sacrifice my first born son? And why is this Entity rewarding me for doing evil? Why dafuq is this Entity telling me to get my own daughters pregnant? It's almost like this Entity needs Earthly people to commit unconscionable acts for some Dark Purpose.
Even if Yahweh created Man it was for a Dark Purpose. Demons need physical Avatars to embody to have any influence on existence. Why would an omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent God who is Perfect in his wholeness NEED to create little physical people?
Read the Book of Enoch, the Book of Raziel, and any other Apocrypha you can get your hands on. According to the Book of Enoch - one of the first things that happened on this Planet that caused the Days of Noah to be so wacky was that The Watchers (Archdemons) came down to Earth and taught humans all manner of Black Magick.
Jesus was crucified because he tried to tell people that this corner of existence is basically a prison governed by Demons. Christianity on this Planet is so corrupt it's unrecognizable from anything Jesus wanted or intended.
Why am I going into all this on this particular forum? Because it's my personal belief (and I STRESS that this is my PERSONAL belief) That CTB specifically is the way out of this prison, this locked-down corner of existence, this Demonic realm.
There's something about the act of CTB that the powerful elite really don't like. Folks seem to believe that the powerful elite are all about death and wanting to kill everyone, and they do put on that front to traumatize people, but it's not what they're about. It's deeper than that. They'll go on stage and grandstand about how we need more than half the Earth's population to die to save the planet - and yet suicide is seen as SO TABOO you can't even look for scenes of fictional movies that happen to have a suicide in them without Youtube putting a huge warning block up with 988 on it. Really makes you go hmmmmmm.
I believe the act of CTB is the complete renunciation of this Demonic corner of existence and the ultimate leap of faith. Truly, there is no greater leap of faith than to plunge yourself into "the undiscovered country" to which no human knows anything about, knowing there could be nothing on the other side but oblivion.
Given my state of advanced disability, I don't mind if the only thing on the other side is oblivion and everything I said is wrong, but if I'm right I plan to spit in eye of whatever Demonic Entity is claiming to be the "God" of this corner of existence.
I don't know, but I have trouble with a deity allowing horrid things that are due to biological malfunctions in order to evolve, there is likely no intelligence in the universe, except quantum mechanics
deadstillwalking
floating away from everyone
- Apr 23, 2024
- 63
Now I'm not a smart person, not at all actually. But as a former Christian I have never seen anyone use arguments that I keep thinking about. If God was truly omnipotent, he would know what it feels like for us to do every single decision, because we are machines. Complex and very hard for one to understand but still machines, and we operate depending on how the outside objects influence us.
If there was a child growing up in an abusive family to become a sociopath and cause harm, just to be sentenced to eternal damnation and then there is a child that grows up in a stable (both emotionally and financially) family to become a functional memeber of society and spread love and kindness, arriving in heaven in the end... how is that fair? God knows what influenced the one to cause harm and what didn't influence the other one. Why does one deserve what the other one doesn't? When neither of them had the chance to live the other's life? One gets the prize that lasts for eternity, for living a one in a billion different lives length of which are incomparable to said eternity... this.. makes no sense.
Another thing that nobody mentions; happiness, love, hatred, sadness - these are all chemical reactions. I'm not a scientist, I'm only 18, but I know that much. To such a divine being, why is it so important? Love I mean. Is God too made of physical matter that He feels love and wants us all to love ourselves and each other? Or why is He so obsessed with it? Why is His entire persona, His entire goal based on love and relationships? Why does He love us? Why does He want us by His side? Why/How does He feel love?!
My last question; God allegedly created the entire universe, Earth with us included. I mean, have you ever seen what kinda crazy stuff is out there? In the universe? So many things that are way beyond our understanding? He created all that, but never mentions it in the Bible (I know it is written by a man through God's revelations and other important events), in such little detail that only humans at the time could deduce with their eyes? Why creating all of it without the intention of ever letting a man see it either? And when you think about it, humans are way too primitive if you compare them to the secrets the universe holds, why does God have such primitive intentions too? Be born, love, die.. what does that all matter for the universe? Almost as if God was made perfect for the eyes of a human, not the universe. This little fact that I heard someone say somewhere: when you realize that all the boundaries that God puts in us are meant to make our life better - not lying = not losing trust in others, not gossiping = not having fake friends, not murdering = not living a life full of regret and trauma. It makes sense, that's for sure. But this just makes me more confident in believing that Christianity (if not all religions) are man-made, just think about all the geniuses, the philosophers of the past who had all the time in the world to think and ponder about our nature. Everything about Christianity can be made up by a man. In the end, it's just a book passed from one generation to the other, and there is no proof to either prove it or disprove it.
I wrote this at 2am and I'm not a native either so please, if you see any grammar mistakes just live through it.
If there was a child growing up in an abusive family to become a sociopath and cause harm, just to be sentenced to eternal damnation and then there is a child that grows up in a stable (both emotionally and financially) family to become a functional memeber of society and spread love and kindness, arriving in heaven in the end... how is that fair? God knows what influenced the one to cause harm and what didn't influence the other one. Why does one deserve what the other one doesn't? When neither of them had the chance to live the other's life? One gets the prize that lasts for eternity, for living a one in a billion different lives length of which are incomparable to said eternity... this.. makes no sense.
Another thing that nobody mentions; happiness, love, hatred, sadness - these are all chemical reactions. I'm not a scientist, I'm only 18, but I know that much. To such a divine being, why is it so important? Love I mean. Is God too made of physical matter that He feels love and wants us all to love ourselves and each other? Or why is He so obsessed with it? Why is His entire persona, His entire goal based on love and relationships? Why does He love us? Why does He want us by His side? Why/How does He feel love?!
My last question; God allegedly created the entire universe, Earth with us included. I mean, have you ever seen what kinda crazy stuff is out there? In the universe? So many things that are way beyond our understanding? He created all that, but never mentions it in the Bible (I know it is written by a man through God's revelations and other important events), in such little detail that only humans at the time could deduce with their eyes? Why creating all of it without the intention of ever letting a man see it either? And when you think about it, humans are way too primitive if you compare them to the secrets the universe holds, why does God have such primitive intentions too? Be born, love, die.. what does that all matter for the universe? Almost as if God was made perfect for the eyes of a human, not the universe. This little fact that I heard someone say somewhere: when you realize that all the boundaries that God puts in us are meant to make our life better - not lying = not losing trust in others, not gossiping = not having fake friends, not murdering = not living a life full of regret and trauma. It makes sense, that's for sure. But this just makes me more confident in believing that Christianity (if not all religions) are man-made, just think about all the geniuses, the philosophers of the past who had all the time in the world to think and ponder about our nature. Everything about Christianity can be made up by a man. In the end, it's just a book passed from one generation to the other, and there is no proof to either prove it or disprove it.
I wrote this at 2am and I'm not a native either so please, if you see any grammar mistakes just live through it.
Raindancer
Specialist
- Nov 4, 2023
- 345
I did not intentionally ignore anything and thought I answered your questions. I am happy to discuss this with you, but please ease back a bit. I will not be insulted, especially when I genuinely tried to answer your questions and believe I did. I do not need to justify anything in the Old Testament, and I never said anything close to our brains are too small to understand. I stated coming from the position that God created everything and made a standard of living, it is up to us to live to that standard, not for God to live to ours.
History is different than science. You cannot use the same method of presentable repeatable proof. If you read extensively, there is enough evidence based on historical facts that show much of what the Bible says is true and more is discovered as time goes on. I personally do not believe in "many worlds" rather I believe there are other dimensions and we are surrounded by spiritual beings.
I do not have to prove to you my God is real. But in the same regard, you cannot prove He is not. I prefaced everything I said with "if you believe" or "if you are a believer this is why we believe what we do.
I am sorry for whatever made you so angry about religion. I answered in the most respectful way, not presuming anything about where you were coming from. If you answer I would appreciate the same consideration or this conversation is over. I do not need to be attacked on something that is sacred and special to me. All I have ever done is state what I personally believe knowing many here do not.
"Do you mean like evidence yet to be discovered? Or do you mean this individuals memory/story is evidence?
If said god was creator, wouldn't it also be aware that menstruation has nothing to do with spirituality and is nessecary for reproduction? Wouldn't said creator/designer be aware of it's own design?
Do you mean like evidence yet to be discovered? Or do you mean this individuals memory/story is evidence?"
Those are the questions I asked in which I've still seen no attempt from you to answer. You must understand, that even if you feel nice about it, it's quite insulting to claim to be addressing someones questions while also ignoring that persons questions. You see, this is a classic tactic from lying politicians used to decieve voters. To claim to address someone's question, then just talk and talk and talk while not answering the question and pretending that what they say makes sense in response. I really appreciate your participation in this conversation. You're demonstrating the tactics of religion. All great reasons to not believe in made up stories of the "supernatural." Even if you don't understand how rude you're being. It's okay for me to point out. It really is quite disrespectful to claim to address someones questions then go on and on and on without addressing said questions. Not that I've got much better to do with my time, but I hope you are getting it now.
You did clearly suggest that my problem was I was looking at it as a human.
Yes, the bible does mention historical events that actually happened. Such as Rome being in power. Or Pontius Pilot being a real person. That means absolutely nothing in whether or not a religion is true. Any human can write about any religion and world events at the same time. That doesn't mean their religion is true. Anyone can do this.
You're right I can not prove god isn't real. That also, is quite meaningless. I can also not disprove unicorns, bigfoot, and the lochness monster. Being unable to prove a religion false is no reason to believe in a religion without evidence. By that logic one would need to believe in most religions, which of course believing in many religions makes even less sense than believing in one religion as they are contradictory to each other.
It's funny how you went from earlier suggesting there might be evidence. Then ignoring questions asked of you about your suggestion of evidence. To now saying that there is no proof. The last one, is finally honesty.
If you want to ramble on about your religion, please feel free to do so. But PLEASE do not address me again unless you are going to actually address something I've said or asked. That is quite rude. How would you feel in conversation if the person replying to you ignored what you said and just rambled?
Not only is christianity false. It is harmful. The following article barely even scratches the surface of the mental harms caused by the bible. Not to mention the physical. The uncountable amount of humans killed for refusing to believe. Including in the americas and central america. Christianity is the most popular largely because they killed populations for not believing, killing the competition. An act as old as the old testament.
But back to the mental effects. At the core of christianity is to teach us that being born a human means we are bad sinners and we must seek forgiveness. It teaches that all humans without exception are bad sinners who must be forgiven. It teaches that we aren't good enough and need help. This is how the human creators of the religion guilt followers into submission.
Does Christianity Harm Children?
The good that Christianity can do for children has been trumpeted for centuries; we need to talk more critically about the potential harm it can do, as well.
www.psychologytoday.com
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