Venting Why, fucking why?

[Lextyle]

Looking at how I used to make games, remembering it, and crying.

I just enjoyed games: woke up, programmed a game, watched videos, didn't sleep because of how captivated I was by it, and didn't notice time flying by.

And I was just fucking shattered.

I came up with so many reasons that the world is meaningless—about evolution, about the brain—just to justify suicidal thoughts, which are there because I just shattered.

I was just lost and in constant derealization. I didn't understand how I can know anything or what is even going on.

Because mom planted an idea in me, which became an obsession because of OCD, that I have to prove everything. In the end, I'd get to such obvious things and realize I can't prove them any further, and that I can't know anything. I just sat there in derealization didn't understand what was going on.

I fucking sat there, going from a programming problem I was trying to prove, getting all the way to the laws of physics and trying to prove them, but I couldn't, and derealization would start.

It's a very terrifying OCD that not a single psychotherapist or psychiatrist has helped me with all this time.

Mom doesn't even understand how terrifying the OCD that started in me because of her is.

She thought I was suffering like that back then only because of school, or comparing myself in olympiads.

But in reality, the main cause of my mental problems was exactly this OCD, which she still doesn't understand.

She's like, "Well, why do you need to prove it? You're solving it for yourself; nobody demands proofs."

But she was the one demanding that the solution be entirely mine and proven. And after that, it doesn't matter anymore if she stops demanding it or not; it already becomes an obsession that separates from her and becomes a demand in my own head.

I don't know, it's so fucking stupid what happened. Why, fucking why?

 

[Endisclose]

But aren't certain things meant to be assumed to be true? There are no proofs for axioms. Like..

From Euclidean geometry (Euclid's first postulate)
A straight line can be drawn from any point to any other point

Or the identity property from algebra
-There exists a special element called 0
-Adding it to any element leaves it unchanged.

How is one supposed to prove this?

I thought one just carries on in the working assumption that it is true.

 

[Lextyle]

But aren't certain things meant to be assumed to be true? There are no proofs for axioms. Like

From Euclidean geometry (Euclid's first postulate)
A straight line can be drawn from any point to any other point

Or the identity property from algebra
-There exists a special element called 0
-Adding it to any element leaves it unchanged.

How is one supposed to prove this?

One just carries on in the working assumption that it is true.

Yeah I was trying to prove everything down to axioms every time and I was freaking out that I can't know the axioms of physics are true. That was causing terrifying dissociation and I was really feeling that literally anything can happen at any time and everything I think I know might be false. You wrote about axioms of mathematics, but they really can be arbitrary and have nothing to do with objective reality, that is just a system of deriving true statements from some axioms that are true by default. But in physics the axioms are not arbitrary and they are based on inductive reasoning, but I was freaking out from thought that inductive reasoning really doesn't have any solid base and I was feeling that it can shatter at any moment

 

[Nolongerlive]

How about seeking the assistance of AI?

In the recent news, one amateur which not majored in mathematics utilized chatgpt to solve a 60 years math problem.

Anything you wanted to prove or solve but dont have a clue, can check with chatgpt for help on hoow to solve the problem.

 

[reasal_phenomenon]

I have the exact same kind of OCD theme (I'd call it "epistemological OCD") and have done since I was a child, it's ruined my life in a lot of ways and triggered constatnt derealisation. Though then again another theme of mine is existential OCD which ties into this.

The worst part is that people refuse to talk about this because they think it's trivial, and one gets the sensation one discovered a horrific Lovecraftian flaw in the foundation of everything. I desperately desperately wanted there to be some 100% verifiable truth, but like after reading a tonne of philosophy I realised it is extremely bleak and that anything can be doubted.

Spoiler: Potential trigger

Even reducing Descartes' "cogito ergo sum" to "est cogitans" ("there is thinking") can easily be doubted too. Pyrrho destroys even the "Academic Skeptic" truth that "there are no truths". Nonetheless Agrippa's trilemma can be used on anything. Wittgenstein was coping and couldn't accept the truth that language cannot be proven to refer to anything. The problem of induction and the problem of scientific underdetermination undermine everything. Memory and whether this is real or not can be questioned ("Brain in a vat", "Last Thursday"ism).

 

[Lextyle]

I have the exact same kind of OCD theme (I'd call it "epistemological OCD") and have done since I was a child, it's ruined my life in a lot of ways and triggered constatnt derealisation. Though then again another theme of mine is existential OCD which ties into this.

The worst part is that people refuse to talk about this because they think it's trivial, and one gets the sensation one discovered a horrific Lovecraftian flaw in the foundation of everything. I desperately desperately wanted there to be some 100% verifiable truth, but like after reading a tonne of philosophy I realised it is extremely bleak and that anything can be doubted.

Spoiler: Potential trigger

Even reducing Descartes' "cogito ergo sum" to "est cogitans" ("there is thinking") can easily be doubted too. Pyrrho destroys even the "Academic Skeptic" truth that "there are no truths". Nonetheless Agrippa's trilemma can be used on anything. Wittgenstein was coping and couldn't accept the truth that language cannot be proven to refer to anything. The problem of induction and the problem of scientific underdetermination undermine everything. Memory and whether this is real or not can be questioned ("Brain in a vat", "Last Thursday"ism).

Yeah I call it epistemological OCD too.
What was the cause for you? How did it start?

 

[reasal_phenomenon]

Not entirely sure, but I think it was reading philosophy books as a child. My uncle gave me a copy of Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder and I felt extremely derealised reading it (goes into these kinds of themes in a visceral way).

I have plenty of other trauma, emotional neglect and social isolation from childhood which made this stuff worse because there was nothing to distract myself from my thoughts and I was always alone.

 

[Lextyle]

It was so terrifying back then, I wanted to kill myself during that derealization, but was doubting even the possibility of that. I think now when there was no triggers for long time it became less

 

[reasal_phenomenon]

It was so terrifying back then, I wanted to kill myself during that derealization, but was doubting even the possibility of that. I think now when there was no triggers for long time it became less

Yeah I liked when I was a NEET doing nothing all day as there weren't as many triggers. The more trauma I get the more OCD themes I get.

Existential OCD + moral OCD are the main things that stop me from sleeping at night when I'm not on anything (mostly surrounding this world being hell). Pessimist philosophy (e.g. Sarah Perry, Cioran, Ligotti, Zapffe, Thacker etc.) ties into this for me. Epistemological OCD still hits me but I think because I have a lot of self-hatred moral OCD is what ends up being more effective torture for me

 

[Endisclose]

Yeah I was trying to prove everything down to axioms every time and I was freaking out that I can't know the axioms of physics are true. That was causing terrifying dissociation and I was really feeling that literally anything can happen at any time and everything I think I know might be false. You wrote about axioms of mathematics, but they really can be arbitrary and have nothing to do with objective reality, that is just a system of deriving true statements from some axioms that are true by default. But in physics the axioms are not arbitrary and they are based on inductive reasoning, but I was freaking out from thought that inductive reasoning really doesn't have any solid base and I was feeling that it can shatter at any moment

The way I understand it.. you are having a sort of physics equivalent of "Hume's wrecking ball" moment. I can sort of understand it, but also feel it may be a little exaggerated. I wonder what people like Oppenheimer would have felt - there has to be a moment for even the wisest expert to go - "Shoot we don't really know anything. What if everything goes for a toss?". That is indeed a terrifying moment.

But there has to be a solution for Hume's wrecking ball. How did science progress?

Also you don't have to prove these axioms are true. You only have to prove them false. Science works by testing, falsifying, improving theories. So if you can prove any of these axioms are false, you'll be doing the scientific world a great service..and maybe an improved theory can be formed?

Also everything need not be necessarily wrong - like Einstein's theories only extended and refined what Newton had said. It doesn't invalidate a lot of what Newton said.

I wish I was more of an expert to maybe assuage your apprehensions better but unfortunately I am just a layman who tries to help people wherever possible and as best as he can.

If you get this sort of severe anxiety - use your critical thinking skills to challenge your perceptions, assumptions, soundness of your reasoning and then see if the conclusions are still valid or if you may be jumping to them. Chatgpt could indeed be a helpful resource for that..

Sometimes anxiety can be so severe that it can cause amygdala storms, have a sort of short circuiting effect in the mind and one's thinking. It can even ruin one's life like it did mine. Critical thinking is the only thing that can help against something like this.

It was what I saw John Nash Jr. (Nobel prize winning mathematician on whose life the film "A beautiful mind" was made) tell his son, who was also schizophrenic, in a documentary - The one thing that will help you is logic. I wish I had realized this in time or that someone had helped me. But that is what I would like to tell you.

I am sorry, reading back on this thread, it strikes me that some of the posts appear to be trolling (Several other posts were made when I was composing this message and was able to read them only after posting this message initially) I have assumed that OPs anxiety as mentioned in the first post to be true and was trying to address them. Anyway, I hope what I have said here could be of use to others and someone who truly needs it.