Why do we suffer?

[ctoan]

for what? what is waiting at the end for us?

what kind of l nightmare is this? which kind of evil psychopath could create sth as cruel and painful as life?

 

[ignominia]

it's the human condition...

Fun Fact: Some gnostic sects during the primitive christianism advocated that it was impossible that the God who create us to be benignant, if not why will it allow so much suffering in the world? so our creator was a Demiurge (some kind of antagonist of the Good God) who was an evil creature.

 

[eczema]

not to be super religious (i'm gonna get super religious) but i think it's more a case of humans being stupid then of God being cruel. He gave us free will, and can't be blamed for our decisions. or maybe there's a reason for our suffering in His plan, who knows.

 

[Schopenhauer]

If I believed in God(s), and I believe he wanted me (or anyone else) to suffer, I'd believe he's a psychopath. Look at children's cancer ward. If there's an overarching, omnipotent intelligence in the universe, it's definitely evil.

Theodicy is a fool's game. With that said, I find Scott Alexander's Unsong to be the only halfway coherent attempt at solving the problem of evil.

Bottom line: we suffer because evolution is a blind, idiot god, events must conform to the laws of physics and probability, and there're many more ways to suffer than to be happy. Hence, suffering holds held illimitable dominion over all.

 

[samsays89]

For me the question was never "why" but "what to do about it". There are always problems, things break, things don't work out, etc. At work I was never paid to find out why instead to get things working again.

I'd rather try a solution or chase a distraction, even if the distraction is stupid.

 

[Pastdue]

I have no idea what sort of thing would create this world. I can only think we are gigantic ant farm and one ant's suffering is just not important to whoever made it or even provides an entertainment value. Like Gladiator I often scream at the sky 'Are you not amused?' when things get too much.

Edit: apparently Gladiator shouts 'are you not entertained?'. Same thing really.

 

[AndyCurious]

I wouldn't suffer if I never was born...

 

[LifeSick]

Well, I don't believe we were created. We are a product of evolution and suffering is just something that randomly appeared and it happened to either not harm or benefit our species as a whole, so it remained in our DNA. It doesn't matter that some of us suffer too much to be of any use to society, our species still goes on. Our suffering is random, and so, for me, it's proof we were not designed by any other being.

 

[millefeui]

Because if there is a God or Gods, they really don't know how to write happy stories for their characters.

 

[millefeui]

not to be super religious (i'm gonna get super religious) but i think it's more a case of humans being stupid then of God being cruel. He gave us free will, and can't be blamed for our decisions. or maybe there's a reason for our suffering in His plan, who knows.

That does not make sense. The Christian God knows everything, and as such, He should know that by giving free will to humans, it would end poorly. If He knew it and still gave humans free will, then it is hard to consider such God "good". No matter how you twist it, I can't make sense of a good God creating humans.

 

[Nem]

Religious people sure have no problem defending someone they have never seen. Kind of ironic when those same people wouldn't stand up to defend you or someone else. That's kind of fucked up...no?

 

[millefeui]

Well, I don't believe we were created. We are a product of evolution and suffering is just something that randomly appeared and it happened to either not harm or benefit our species as a whole, so it remained in our DNA. It doesn't matter that some of us suffer too much to be of any use to society, our species still goes on. Our suffering is random, and so, for me, it's proof we were not designed by any other being.

I hope you are right and we are just a random mistake, a dark spot in the history of the universe.

I hope you are wrong about our species going on.

 

[Lena]

I believe we are suffering because it teaches us. Those who suffer become more compassionate and helpful. Think about this site for example. Everyone is so kind and caring and empathetic to one another. Because we all get how bad it is to feel suicidal. No one who hasn't felt it can understand. That's why people hang out here so much. This is a place they can really speak their feelings and be understood.

 

[millefeui]

The only thing it has taught me so far is that if there is a God, He is really not worth of any praise. There are better ways of teaching people than making the suffer.

Go tell victims of rape that they had their bodies violated and their lives completely destroyed by fucking psychopaths that it all happened to teach them something. I dare you.

 

[Pastdue]

The only thing it has taught me so far is that if there is a God, He is really not worth of any praise. There are better ways of teaching people than making the suffer.

Go tell victims of rape that they had their bodies violated and their lives completely destroyed by fucking psychopaths that it all happened to teach them something. I dare you.

Indeed. you can't say suffering made a person better if they ctb, also if they suffer and then get killed like what happened to the Jews in the concentration camps. Also lots of kiddie fiddlers got fiddled with themselves when they were young and can't bond with adults.

"If there is a God, He will have to beg for my forgiveness." This is a quote found etched on the wall of a concentration camp.

 

[Schopenhauer]

Go tell victims of rape that they had their bodies violated and their lives completely destroyed by fucking psychopaths that it all happened to teach them something. I dare you.

This! It's just pointless suffering. There are children who are barely self-aware dying of nasty forms cancers. They'll have brief, pain-filled lives. If there's a man behind the curtain, he's a psychopath.

 

[polyswarm]

@Lena

Because a person generally becomes more sympathetic after prolonged suffering, does not make that suffering a good thing, or justified, or anything remotely positive in my opinion. Suffering is bad, period.

Being sympathetic is a good thing, but I'd say people have the capacity to become sympathetic without having to go through prolonged periods of severe suffering. We all have these big brains, but not very many of us actually use them.

The fact that it takes something that extreme before some people become sympathetic towards others is a very sad thing.
And the lack of sympathy towards others in the world as a whole even sadder.

 

[Lena]

Hey all you guys who replied to me - that makes perfect sense from the perspective of an atheist. But I am saying, maybe there is something after this life that we need to learn these lessons for. I believe in an afterlife and God, so this makes sense to me.

 

[Mr2005]

To care is to suffer

 

[Life sucks]

Live in a warzone and see hundreds or thousands die by yourself and there is no reason for that. No matter what one beliefs are, justifying atrocities by having a greater reason is very bad.

Too bad nobody mentions wars when its the prime example to counter these ideas. Wars and diseases are one of the reasons a huge number of people died through history. A terrifying number of people die and suffer and not only one person. What's the reason for that?

Also humans never learn from history, so learning doesn't count as a reason. This world is absurd

 

[Mr2005]

^
This is precisely why I get annoyed with people trivializing murder just because they want to die

 

[Schopenhauer]

Hey all you guys who replied to me - that makes perfect sense from the perspective of an atheist. But I am saying, maybe there is something after this life that we need to learn these lessons for. I believe in an afterlife and God, so this makes sense to me.

You actually think "God" wants someone to get raped, or a child to die an agonizing death by cancer, as some sort of lesson for the afterlife? I'm sorry, but that's the behavior of a psychopath (God, not you).

 

[ctoan]

maybe this is hell

maybe were already dead

 

[Schopenhauer]

maybe this is hell

maybe were already dead

The real nightmare would be if this is the *good place*, and we'll go somewhere really bad once we leave here.

 

[millefeui]

I want nothing with an aferlife created by an asshole who lets people be raped (often not once, but for years!! seriously) and/or tortured etc to learn some idiotic lesson about empathy or whatever, to be allowed in some idiotic afterlife. That is not how you teach people. What kind of sick bastard agrees with this? That is such an incredibly stupid and cruel thing to say. Please, stop making fun of the suffering of others.

A good God, a God of love would teach people with LOVE and CARE, not with suffering, pain, and disgrace. Just like a good teacher doesnt go around hitting their students and calling them names. Religious people boggle my mind...

I will tell you, I might be the biggest delusional idiot in the whole world, all with the kind of hopes and desires I have, but at least I don't subscribe to beliefs that make little of what people go through in this disgraceful existence of ours.

 

[ctoan]

I want nothing with an aferlife created by an asshole who lets people be raped (often not once, but for years!! seriously) and/or tortured etc to learn some idiotic lesson about empathy or whatever, to be allowed in some idiotic afterlife. That is not how you teach people. What kind of sick bastard agrees with this? That is such an incredibly stupid and cruel thing to say. Please, stop making fun of the suffering of others.

A good God, a God of love would teach people with LOVE and CARE, not with suffering, pain, and disgrace. Just like a good teacher doesnt go around hitting their students and calling them names. Religious people boggle my mind...

I will tell you, I might be the biggest delusional idiot in the whole world, all with the kind of hopes and desires I have, but at least I don't subscribe to beliefs that make little of what people go through in this disgraceful existence of ours.

are u aware of the story of job?

 

[BlackDragonof1989]

What do people think about reincarnation? I've wondered about this too, but it still seems quite cruel to imagine a spiritual system which would effectively justify the suffering of people or their success because of a past series of lives. It seems more like a way to excuse others' suffering and "cope" by believing such things? Or do I misunderstand or oversimplify reincarnation too much?

 

[Mr2005]

I'd say you overcomplicate it

 

[BlackDragonof1989]

I'd say you overcomplicate it

Could you clarify what you mean? I'm confused a bit, though I definitely have a tendency to overcomplicate things *nods*

 

[Mr2005]

Well there's reincarnation and then there's karma. Whether one has much to do with the other or it's chosen at random is difficult to say since we don't even know reincarnation exists or karma for that matter. We don't know much really