Why do people on here gatekeep or feel guilt when giving CTB information?

[Tyra]

We've all been brainwashed to think CTB is bad by society. Because if CTB was seen as neutral, then society wouldn't have as many wageslaves.

It's kind of annoying me how much I see "don't do what I did" on a literal suicide forum.

Like do y'all not realize we're going to do it anyways… regardless of what you say.

It's like why gatekeep when it can make things easier for someone who's inevitably going to do it?

Sorry if this came off as aggressive… I didn't mean it like that.

I'm just saying there's a time and place for pro recovery stuff and I don't wanna see it when I'm trying to get informed on methods.

 

[fluorescentpearl]

Well it IS illegal to aid openly in suicide in most countries and online aid counts in the eyes of police

 

[Die.A.Ria]

Yeah i dont why people do that
Like i know it may be seen as illegal to aid but when your documenting what you have done its not illegal and theres no point of saying dont do what i did

 

[fluorescentpearl]

So we kind of have to say "but not recommending" or "not to make you do this" and so on, otherwise we'd be compliant in an assisted suicide murder case which I assume most people would not want to end up with
At least that's my reason tho, I'm not sure if others feel the same

 

[Tyra]

Well it IS illegal to aid openly in suicide in most countries and online aid counts in the eyes of police

Well it IS illegal to aid openly in suicide in most countries and online aid counts in the eyes of police

So everyone who is working at euthanasia places should be thrown in jail then?

No because it's only illegal if they physically administer the drug to the person.

 

[fluorescentpearl]

So everyone who is working at euthanasia places should be thrown in jail then?

No because it's only illegal if they physically administer the drug to the person.

That's different, in some countries euthanasia is fully legal and done by medical professionals haha
Aided suicide is considered murder and is a crime

 

[Tyra]

So we kind of have to say "but not recommending" or "not to make you do this" and so on, otherwise we'd be compliant in an assisted suicide murder case which I assume most people would not want to end up with
At least that's my reason tho, I'm not sure if others feel the same

I disagree. Giving informed information doesn't make you responsible for someone's suicide.

At the end of the day we should have the right to die. And also someone is solely responsible for their own actions.

Egging someone on to do it is completely different story tho. But giving information on safety and such shouldn't be seen as wrong.

So we kind of have to say "but not recommending" or "not to make you do this" and so on, otherwise we'd be compliant in an assisted suicide murder case which I assume most people would not want to end up with
At least that's my reason tho, I'm not sure if others feel the same

I disagree. Giving informed information doesn't make you responsible for someone's suicide.

At the end of the day we should have the right to die. And also someone is solely responsible for their own actions.

Egging someone on to do it is completely different story tho. But giving information on safety and such shouldn't be seen as wrong.

That's different, in some countries euthanasia is fully legal and done by medical professionals haha
Aided suicide is considered murder and is a crime

Giving informed information with the intent of harm reduction isn't aiding in a suicide tho.

 

[fluorescentpearl]

Should is the key word. . It should be okay but it often isn't, we don't want to go to jail

 

[nayomi]

it is all already here so...
presonally i help only to prevent catastrophe ctb only

 

[neverexistedd]

because this forum isn't pro suicide, or at least it tries not to be, people feel guilty for providing information because they feel empathy towards others and don't want to be the reason someone might be able to kill themselves, its also illegal to help or encourage someone to commit suicide
there is enough information on this forum how to do it and what to avoid when you want to CTB, so I don't understand the point of this thread

it is human to want to avoid suffering

 

[Tyra]

Should is the key word. . It should be okay but it often isn't, we don't want to go to jail

So then why isnt the person who made the SN bible in prison right now?

because this forum isn't pro suicide, or at least it tries not to be, people feel guilty for providing information because they feel empathy towards others and don't want to be the reason someone might be able to kill themselves, its also illegal to help or encourage someone to commit suicide
there is enough information on this forum how to do it and what to avoid when you want to CTB, so I don't understand the point of this thread

it is human to want to avoid suffering

Because I'm tired of feeling guilty for wanting to CTB.

Hearing "I would feel bad if you did it" on here constantly makes me feel like I'm doing a bad thing.

I'm tired of people gatekeeping when I'm simply asking for harm reduction information.

it is all already here so...
presonally i help only to prevent catastrophe ctb only

So you refuse to provide harm reduction information just because you think it won't be catastrophic?

 

[fluorescentpearl]

I suppose it depends on the case and the region, the beliefs of the person, some people feel guilt and empathy, some people have hope for others but not for themselves, some people think there's already a bunch of info so adding more isn't necessary, some people don't want to possibly cause a suicide, while others worry they might cause suicide in someone who's a minor or thinking very irrationally

As for the writer of the SN Bible, in a lot of spots people clarify that they're not professionals and are in no way recommending this, just sharing their knowledge and plans

In my country for example just telling someone "do it like this this way" counts as murder haha

 

[CatLvr]

Some of y'all have not ever worked inside law enforcement or the justice system and it shows.

And like @nayomi already said -- all the information is here for you to find and use.

This is gonna hurt some feelings but there are an awful lot of folks who want to be spoon-fed the information -- like we are supposed to hand out "Welcome to the Neighborhood" packets with SN and a measuring cup, a rope with the noose already knotted properly, a loaded gun and an exit bag with individually-sized cannisters of helium. Lol

Then there are the folks who want to die but have ... Ahem ... "Stipulations" ... Can we be having sex? Can you just do it for me? Can we die together? Can we just get a cop to do it for us on his coffee break? Can we pay the homeless guy $20 to push us off the subway platform?

Do I wanna die?? Yeah. Lota of days I do. But AS AN ADULT I realize that it is a choice I am going to have to make and walk thru all by myself like a grown-up. I am adamantly pro-choice, but I am also just as adamant about the fact that if you are not mature enough to be able to take yourself from start to finish without someone holding your hand the entire way then you are not of sound enough mind to be making that decision.

Life is hard. Dying is hard. You aren't getting through living -- or dying -- without some kinda pain, somehow. Either grow up and get on with dealing with what life has chunked at you or CTB -- it is your choice. And because it is your choice, it is also your "work" to do -- whichever path you choose to take. But, either way -- no one is coming to save you. That is not how the world works.

 

[Tyra]

I suppose it depends on the case and the region, the beliefs of the person, some people feel guilt and empathy, some people have hope for others but not for themselves, some people think there's already a bunch of info so adding more isn't necessary, some people don't want to possibly cause a suicide, while others worry they might cause suicide in someone who's a minor or thinking very irrationally

As for the writer of the SN Bible, in a lot of spots people clarify that they're not professionals and are in no way recommending this, just sharing their knowledge and plans

In my country for example just telling someone "do it like this this way" counts as murder haha

But adding info could reduce the persons suffering?

It doesn't make sense to withhold information when it could help reduce someone's suffering, because people will CTB anyways.

It's fine saying "I don't recommend this". But completely withdrawing harm reduction information because "Suicide is bad" is something I don't agree with.

Some of y'all have not ever worked inside law enforcement or the justice system and it shows.

And like @nayomi already said -- all the information is here for you to find and use.

This is gonna hurt some feelings but there are an awful lot of folks who want to be spoon-fed the information -- like we are supposed to hand out "Welcome to the Neighborhood" packets with SN and a measuring cup, a rope with the noose already knotted properly, a loaded gun and an exit bag with individually-sized cannisters of helium. Lol

Then there are the folks who want to die but have ... Ahem ... "Stipulations" ... Can we be having sex? Can you just do it for me? Can we die together? Can we just get a cop to do it for us on his coffee break? Can we pay the homeless guy $20 to push us off the subway platform?

Do I wanna die?? Yeah. Lota of days I do. But AS AN ADULT I realize that it is a choice I am going to have to make and walk thru all by myself like a grown-up. I am adamantly pro-choice, but I am also just as adamant about the fact that if you are not mature enough to be able to take yourself from start to finish without someone holding your hand the entire way then you are not of sound enough mind to be making that decision.

Life is hard. Dying is hard. You aren't getting through living -- or dying -- without some kinda pain, somehow. Either grow up and get on with dealing with what life has chunked at you or CTB -- it is your choice. And because it is your choice, it is also your "work" to do -- whichever path you choose to take. But, either way -- no one is coming to save you. That is not how the world works.

This post is about people who withhold harm reduction information, for the sole purpose of "if you did it I would feel guilty".

"Toughen up buttercup" on a suicide forum is kind of ironic. Because the ultimate toughness would be to not CTB at all.

 

[JesiBel]

Perhaps it depends on "how you ask for the information." Some users don't make the slightest effort to research the basics of a method and literally expect you to provide them with a "step-by-step guide with all the data."

I think if you ask specific questions where it's clear you at least bothered to read/research something, some user will answer you. Or perhaps it's a very repetitive topic and most people prefer to ignore the thread.

The information is readily available to everyone; there are even pinned threads with all the methods. So, providing information or an opinion wouldn't violate the forum rules. There are guides of all kinds.

It's more about "analyzing the situation," for example, if you suspect that it might be an impulsive attempt or a minor seeking "help," you simply ignore the thread (or report it to moderation).

There are very empathetic users who offer to listen if you're going through a difficult time. It might seem annoying, but it's good that there are people who genuinely care about others. Not because they want you to change your mind, but so you can reflect on if it's truly the right decision.

As a community, I believe that this balance between those who give information or those who offer their words of support, reflection, or friendship is necessary.

 

[Throwawaysoul]

OP with their 46 posts, must have not been spoon fed links to the SN vendors and is now calling us gatekeepers.

 

[Tyra]

I

Perhaps it depends on "how you ask for the information." Some users don't make the slightest effort to research the basics of a method and literally expect you to provide them with a "step-by-step guide with all the data."

I think if you ask specific questions where it's clear you at least bothered to read/research something, some user will answer you. Or perhaps it's a very repetitive topic and most people prefer to ignore the thread.

The information is readily available to everyone; there are even pinned threads with all the methods. So, providing information or an opinion wouldn't violate the forum rules. There are guides of all kinds.

It's more about "analyzing the situation," for example, if you suspect that it might be an impulsive attempt or a minor seeking "help," you simply ignore the thread (or report it to moderation).

There are very empathetic users who offer to listen if you're going through a difficult time. It might seem annoying, but it's good that there are people who genuinely care about others. Not because they want you to change your mind, but so you can reflect on if it's truly the right decision.

As a community, I believe that this balance between those who give information or those who offer their words of support, reflection, or friendship is necessary.

I shouldn't be made to feel guilty tho for choosing to CTB. I honestly think that's what bothers me the most.

When people say "don't do it, I would feel so guilty" it makes me feel like I'm doing the most horrible thing in the world.
I

OP with their 46 posts, must have not been spoon fed links to the SN vendors and is now calling us gatekeepers.

I have SN.

To be honest, I think I was mad because
I don't want to feel guilty for choosing to CTB.

When people say "don't do it, I would feel so guilty" it makes me feel like I'm doing the most horrible thing in the world.

 

[vitbar]

I disagree. Giving informed information doesn't make you responsible for someone's suicide.

In the UK it is illegal to assist a suicide by providing information, whether a suicide is attempted or not. I have mixed feelings about this, and might not have any problem with it if there were official legal ways to get help with suicide.

I would feel some responsibility too. I would be more responsible than someone who didn't provide information. Ultimate responsibility belongs to the person choosing to attempt, but it would also be partly the result of my efforts.

Both things make me reluctant to post along those lines.

 

[CatLvr]

"Toughen up buttercup" on a suicide forum is kind of ironic. Because the ultimate toughness would be to not CTB at all.

You may think so. Others, however, may not. That is how you FEEL -- like you feeling bad if someone says they would feel guilty if they shared information and someone else used it to CTB. And your feelings are no more or less valid than anyone else's. I'm not saying you are wrong to feel the way you do. I am saying the people who are supposedly gatekeeping all these wonderfully painless, simple, quick ways to off yourself are just as entitled to express their feelings as you are yours.

And, as someone with multiple attempts under their belt, I disagree that it takes an "ultimate toughness" to not CTB. I am still here because I am a coward. I am afraid of what I know it will do to those who love me. Otherwise I'd have a bunch more attempts under my belt -- or I would have FINALLY gotten it right and not be here at all.

 

[telekon]

I disagree. Giving informed information doesn't make you responsible for someone's suicide.

At the end of the day we should have the right to die. And also someone is solely responsible for their own actions.

YOU disagree. WE disagree. But the powers that be would say otherwise.

And so that's kind of what this entire website is about --> the argument towards whether we as a society should make euthanasia a decision that one makes for themselves rather than having to go through a legal process to obtain the rights to euthanasia. We are in a suicide prohibition.

We as a society have not even fully come to terms with regular euthanasia, i.e., whether a person with irremediable illness should be afforded suicide and there are still debates about this. There probably always will be and it's a very loud minority that argues against euthanasia, which would probably make the act of suicide an eternally taboo subject. It is the natural order. Suicide isn't and shouldn't be normal. If we desensitize the public to the act of suicide, we would undoubtedly lose millions to suicide every day. That's why we have to keep it underground and away from the general population.

 

[tooafraidtodiez]

Because of the DSL incident. Where he closed his store due to being found out by one of his customer parent's and legal action might be taken This will make it harder for other people to find a source for CTB which is why hints shouldnt be easy to decipher

 

[Tyra]

You may think so. Others, however, may not. That is how you FEEL -- like you feeling bad if someone says they would feel guilty if they shared information and someone else used it to CTB. And your feelings are no more or less valid than anyone else's. I'm not saying you are wrong to feel the way you do. I am saying the people who are supposedly gatekeeping all these wonderfully painless, simple, quick ways to off yourself are just as entitled to express their feelings as you are yours.

And, as someone with multiple attempts under their belt, I disagree that it takes an "ultimate toughness" to not CTB. I am still here because I am a coward. I am afraid of what I know it will do to those who love me. Otherwise I'd have a bunch more attempts under my belt -- or I would have FINALLY gotten it right and not be here at all.

You're not a coward. You are extremely strong person who has gone through a lot in their life.

I just don't like it when people talk bad about themselves. Please show yourself kindness.

In my opinion, it's a lot harder to live many years than it is to CTB. We're all entitled to our own opinions tho.

 

[JesiBel]

I

I shouldn't be made to feel guilty tho for choosing to CTB. I honestly think that's what bothers me the most.

When people say "don't do it, I would feel so guilty" it makes me feel like I'm doing the most horrible thing in the world.

I understand your point of view; ctb is a personal decision that requires a lot of thought beforehand. In the end, we will all feel guilty for hurting those close to us; it's inevitable, and that's why it might be considered a "selfish" act. Only the one who suffers knows what they're going through and the reason for their decision.

Perhaps these users aren't trying to invalidate you or make you feel bad; I think they're more likely there to offer support if you need it. Generally, if your thread has a "desperate tone," they'll be the first to comment, rather than others offering information.

I hope you feel more welcome in the forum. The information will always be here. No one should judge you; however, your decisions should be made consciously and with a clear mind, without being impulsive or irrational. Perhaps something alerted those users, and that's why they decided not to help you in the way you expected.

 

[AreWeWinning]

It's kind of annoying me how much I see "don't do what I did" on a literal suicide forum.

Like do y'all not realize we're going to do it anyways… regardless of what you say.

It's like why gatekeep when it can make things easier for someone who's inevitably going to do it?

I understand what you mean, and people sometimes say things like "Don't do it, but here is how it's done...", or "Don't do it, but this is what I did...". When someone actually gives out information, that's not gatekeeping! There are people here who are willing to share information on methods to the extent that is tolerated by the mods. For example, sharing SN sources isn't allowed. As long as you can get answers, I don't see it as a huge problem if someone also shares their concerns along with their reply. I often do it too, sometimes simply out of formality or to make my comment more palatable, so to speak.

Looking at some of your recent threads, you did get responses, and I don't see any gatekeeping in the replies. In fact, I didn't see the behaviour you are describing at all.

Only one of your threads didn't receive any replies. It's the one where you ask about the oxygen mask thing when taking SN. I'm not the most knowledgeable about SN, but I think the lack of response is not a sign of gatekeeping. Perhaps it's just a sign that no one has thought about doing this or knows anything about it. This is beside the point, but personally, I think that if you're thinking about oxygen masks with SN, you might be overcomplicating it. Regardless of method, you can't make death perfectly comfortable.

To be honest, I think I was mad because
I don't want to feel guilty for choosing to CTB.

When people say "don't do it, I would feel so guilty" it makes me feel like I'm doing the most horrible thing in the world.

Well, you don't want to feel guilty if you CTB. Perhaps other people don't want to feel guilty either if you CTB. You don't want to feel a certain way, but you're mad if someone else doesn't want to feel that way either? :)

How you feel about your suicide is up to you. Blaming others for your own feelings is not going to help. If you come to terms with ending your life yourself and fully accept it, you won't be bothered as much. Look up the "Five stages of grief".

 

[Dot]

So we kind of have to say "but not recommending" or "not to make you do this" and so on, otherwise we'd be compliant in an assisted suicide murder case which I assume most people would not want to end up with
At least that's my reason tho, I'm not sure if others feel the same

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[fluorescentpearl]

[Hidden content]

Yep! I agree, but there's enough countries where it's illegal that it's a reason to mention it

 

[Tyra]

I understand what you mean, and people sometimes say things like "Don't do it, but here is how it's done...", or "Don't do it, but this is what I did...". When someone actually gives out information, that's not gatekeeping! There are people here who are willing to share information on methods to the extent that is tolerated by the mods. For example, sharing SN sources isn't allowed. As long as you can get answers, I don't see it as a huge problem if someone also shares their concerns along with their reply. I often do it too, sometimes simply out of formality or to make my comment more palatable, so to speak.

Looking at some of your recent threads, you did get responses, and I don't see any gatekeeping in the replies. In fact, I didn't see the behaviour you are describing at all.

Only one of your threads didn't receive any replies. It's the one where you ask about the oxygen mask thing when taking SN. I'm not the most knowledgeable about SN, but I think the lack of response is not a sign of gatekeeping. Perhaps it's just a sign that no one has thought about doing this or knows anything about it. This is beside the point, but personally, I think that if you're thinking about oxygen masks with SN, you might be overcomplicating it. Regardless of method, you can't make death perfectly comfortable.



Well, you don't want to feel guilty if you CTB. Perhaps other people don't want to feel guilty either if you CTB. You don't want to feel a certain way, but you're mad if someone else doesn't want to feel that way either? :)

How you feel about your suicide is up to you. Blaming others for your own feelings is not going to help. If you come to terms with ending your life yourself and fully accept it, you won't be bothered as much. Look up the "Five stages of grief".

How am I overcomplicated my SN CTB when I am just having things beside me that help ease my mind and possibly aid in giving comfort?

I just don't see what's wrong with that.