Why are ugly people expected to just accept it and move on? Why live like this when I can destroy this disgusting body that I was forced to exist in

[Dejected 55]

Let's not get it twisted... many men and many women judge based on looks. How can they not? Outside of meeting people on an online site without photos, you're going to know what someone looks like long before you know anything else about them.

What is debatable is what women look for in physical appearance VS what men look for in physical appearance... and, in part due to physical differences in men and women, that's where things get different. Women tend to value physical size (height, athleticism, strength, etc.) because finding those things in a man tends to support the historical need for security and protection and taking care of her, children, and the home. Men, as already has been stated, tend to look for health and youth and certain attributes in breasts and hips that imply better chance of healthy children. If you're going to acknowledge history and caveman stuff in how people see each other, you have to acknowledge it plays in both directions.

Are men pickier than women in terms of evaluating looks? I don't know. Even though I have often thought I was ugly by male standards, I've never gotten the feeling that my looks were what were keeping women from being interested in me. Maybe it has and I was oblivious to it. Also, from the reverse angle... I've been attracted to women of all shapes and sizes and nationalities in my life and more than a few times women I've found really attractive to me were ones others around me wouldn't look once at, much less twice. So while I acknowledge I've had some physical attractions purely based on looks before I got to know a woman... I don't think I've unfairly judged a woman solely based on physical appearance. I can't say, though, that there couldn't be a perfectly nice and kind human being that I find her not physically attractive and it would be a deal breaker... anymore that I can't say that a woman out there might not like me for my appearance even if she liked me as a human being.

It's a part of things, but it isn't all the things.

 

[maylurker]

Let's not get it twisted... many men and many women judge based on looks. How can they not? Outside of meeting people on an online site without photos, you're going to know what someone looks like long before you know anything else about them.

What is debatable is what women look for in physical appearance VS what men look for in physical appearance... and, in part due to physical differences in men and women, that's where things get different. Women tend to value physical size (height, athleticism, strength, etc.) because finding those things in a man tends to support the historical need for security and protection and taking care of her, children, and the home. Men, as already has been stated, tend to look for health and youth and certain attributes in breasts and hips that imply better chance of healthy children. If you're going to acknowledge history and caveman stuff in how people see each other, you have to acknowledge it plays in both directions.

Are men pickier than women in terms of evaluating looks? I don't know. Even though I have often thought I was ugly by male standards, I've never gotten the feeling that my looks were what were keeping women from being interested in me. Maybe it has and I was oblivious to it. Also, from the reverse angle... I've been attracted to women of all shapes and sizes and nationalities in my life and more than a few times women I've found really attractive to me were ones others around me wouldn't look once at, much less twice. So while I acknowledge I've had some physical attractions purely based on looks before I got to know a woman... I don't think I've unfairly judged a woman solely based on physical appearance. I can't say, though, that there couldn't be a perfectly nice and kind human being that I find her not physically attractive and it would be a deal breaker... anymore that I can't say that a woman out there might not like me for my appearance even if she liked me as a human being.

It's a part of things, but it isn't all the things.

thanks unc you never disappoint with your centrist opinion

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

thanks unc you never disappoint with your centrist opinion

Damn that's a straight up insult nuanced ≠ centrist

 

[crazyotterkelly]

as a trans woman. i know the beauty standard thing all too well. it is a privilege. i don't think im even doing the worst out of my trans sisters looks wise but i think i look hideous still..... thats saying something. yeah being pretty or being seen as you isn't gonna fix your problems but it is gonna make your life better

i know all to well people don't teat me well because i don't look like other woman and its just a true fact. we are visual creatures. litterally it takes like one thing being off about my hair or makeup suddenly im a man ( i mean i can't control i was born and geneticly am one. besides all what those hugboxxers say. at least some of the phobes are being honest. but thats my own view on being trans)

i imagine very masc/butch cis ladies deal with a similar thing. most of the cis women in my family who are cis litterally grow beards and get called men sometimes

beauty standards are fucked but id be lying if it wasn't contributing to my suicide. even if i try to love myself as a unconventional person. doesn't change the fact the world will tear me apart

 

[maylurker]

Agreed. It's known that on dating apps (dating apps are real life), the genetically superior 20% of men receive attention from 80% of women. Dating apps are the quintessential example of a 'hot-or-not' game, as your existence is reduced to 6 photos. Thus majority of women only being attracted to the most elite men shows women care more about looks.


(All in my humble opinion)

basically there is no point in arguing with a woman on that topic because gap is way too big. they cant see your perspective unfortunately because women get a lot of attention on dating apps and most men have none

 

[finaldestination22]

that the extent to which he wants to be attractive is ridiculous and not even about being attractive anymore, probably just closeted narcissism

hiding behind legitimate reasons like wanting to be taken seriously in society, more opportunities, etc. when he actually just wants endless, extreme attention and admiration by women

ignoring ofc that the men that get obsessed over like this are not really 10/10s; they usually fit into a caricature of the most recent trend. emaciated, pale, white, curly or wavy dark hair, tall, subtle muscle definition, heroin-chic-like aesthetic comes to mind. this is just a fetish and a trendy captivation; i doubt most men would even agree this is peak attractiveness for a guy.

so at this point your problem isn't really wanting to be attractive, it's that you want the opposite gender to desperately want to have sex with you.

It's funny sometimes how "normal" people sound on this forum, I even forget that it is actually a suicide forum lol. If this was a topic on reddit or whatever it would sound perfectly normal but here I think mental illness is forgotten often.
In my experience mental illness hides lot of truth from you especially bpd/bipolar even ocd type due to the intrusive thoughts. You start believing and "feeling" lot of stuff that's not so real, like a simple rejection becomes a huge tragedy and the world is against you, or in my case had lots of money but still BPD as fuck and zero motivation to actually become a better person especially mentally. So of course I lost it all while thinking the game is rigged against me when I actually had so many chances to live good but I had to fix my energy and treat my mental first due to too much past traumas.

Take for example Elliot Rodger case aka the kind of incels. Good family, good looking, maxed himself out bought a nice BMW very young, designer clothes and everything because all he wanted to do was being admired and have all girls jump on him. And it did not happen at all. Why? He was highly autistic and too weird/off putting so instead of understanding that he hated everyone so much until he killed as many as he could.

So was he ugly or just sick? Absolutely sick. Mental illness is a master at distorting reality and justify "injustice". Yes many bad experiences in life I agree lot of shit happened to me too which made me take some horrible decissions in life but end of the day I believe if I would have taken care of my mental my life would have been so much better, and I'm far from being a beautiful guy but not deformed and I had so many chances whit girls that I fucked up.

 

[sanrioslayer]

Of course evolutionarily, women have to invest 100x more time into having a child (in the womb) than men, so they are more picky with sexually selecting the most genetically fit men available.
Men only have to invest delivering sperm to have a child, which means to maximize their chance of passing on their genes, men will try mate with as many women as they can.

This translates to the modern day where many women are more content staying single & waiting for an ideal man to meet their standards, while many men will take anything they can get.



Agreed. It's known that on dating apps (dating apps are real life), the genetically superior 20% of men receive attention from 80% of women. Dating apps are the quintessential example of a 'hot-or-not' game, as your existence is reduced to 6 photos. Thus majority of women only being attracted to the most elite men shows women care more about looks.


(All in my humble opinion)

Yea idk maybe youre right my bad g

 

[Alan James]

That's right. I am also completely ugly, short, with terrible genetics, poor health, low IQ, I have no talents, lifelong severe depression and body dysmorphic disorder (hatred of my body). I personally need beauty and height not in order to please someone, not for romantic relationships and so on (I'm not an incel) - but so as not to suffer every day all my life from endless hatred of my body and myself. You feel as if your consciousness/soul was locked in a prison in this genetically inferior disgusting good-for-nothing body that you did not choose. And for some reason you have to endure it, put up with it because you can't change it in any way.

Body dysmorphic disorder causes some kind of special suffering; it's not at all clear how to live in a body that you categorically do not accept, hate and cannot do anything with such a body. Beauty, tall height, high IQ, talents, health, abilities are the true highest values (unlike money, for example) and I need them personally for myself so as not to suffer every day of my life, and not for some kind of relationship with someone, getting sex, some social things. I have never understood how it is possible to accept and tolerate ugliness and genetic inferiority and what is the point in such a "life".

Gnostics and others who say that the physical body is a prison for the immortal consciousness/soul and that the physical world is a simulation, that it is like a prison, they seem to be right. This is exactly how I have felt all my life - locked in my body as if in a prison in this senseless physical hell.

Yes, as they wrote above, I personally need beauty (including tall height, correct body proportions and the health of this body) exclusively for myself, so that I like myself and not suffer every day, every minute of my life from hating my body. This is precisely narcissism and selfishness.

Of course, there is lookism in human society. But I have always been completely indifferent to the opinions of society and other people; the goal was not to please someone or have sex. I love solitude, I never cared about society. I also always liked porn and I watched it in huge quantities since childhood and had no intention of ever even trying to have sex with someone.

What is "beauty"? This is a thin, slender, fairly tall body with long legs and correct proportions of body and face. For me personally, regarding women, the most beautiful have always been the top models (Victoria's Secret Angels and others), such as in the photo, for example.

By the way, according to statistics, less than 2% of the planet's population has a more or less model type of appearance, beautiful by such standards (and this is at best 2%). Beauty is like an anomaly and the vast majority of people in the world are not beautiful to one degree or another, unfortunately.

 

[sanctionedusage]

It's funny sometimes how "normal" people sound on this forum, I even forget that it is actually a suicide forum lol. If this was a topic on reddit or whatever it would sound perfectly normal but here I think mental illness is forgotten often.
In my experience mental illness hides lot of truth from you especially bpd/bipolar even ocd type due to the intrusive thoughts. You start believing and "feeling" lot of stuff that's not so real, like a simple rejection becomes a huge tragedy and the world is against you, or in my case had lots of money but still BPD as fuck and zero motivation to actually become a better person especially mentally. So of course I lost it all while thinking the game is rigged against me when I actually had so many chances to live good but I had to fix my energy and treat my mental first due to too much past traumas.

Take for example Elliot Rodger case aka the kind of incels. Good family, good looking, maxed himself out bought a nice BMW very young, designer clothes and everything because all he wanted to do was being admired and have all girls jump on him. And it did not happen at all. Why? He was highly autistic and too weird/off putting so instead of understanding that he hated everyone so much until he killed as many as he could.

So was he ugly or just sick? Absolutely sick. Mental illness is a master at distorting reality and justify "injustice". Yes many bad experiences in life I agree lot of shit happened to me too which made me take some horrible decissions in life but end of the day I believe if I would have taken care of my mental my life would have been so much better, and I'm far from being a beautiful guy but not deformed and I had so many chances whit girls that I fucked up.

maybe because sasu is primarily an educational/research forum and a resource, it attracts people who are ironically of a sounder mind to be meticulously planning and carefully considering ctb. they approach their ctb logically and by extension, usually have very self aware and logical reasons to be ctb'ing. compare this to people who are unstable enough, so often, that they don't get the chance to think rationally and impulsively copy the first method they've seen on social media or in their own life and end up with an extremely fatal but unnecessarily brutal method, or more commonly, a brutal but non-method.

so yeah, un-self aware people are less common here. which is a bit sadder, since i can't look at 90% of the posts here and come up with a single reason why that person shouldn't ctb, because they're not stupid or ridiculous reasons. sometimes im just in awe at how the person is even alive. this includes extremely sick people as well, but even they can often (on sasu posts) see through their own illness's BS and assess their situation. i think this is what makes people come off so 'normal' even if nearly everyone has some mental condition or disorder.

 

[U. A.]

This thread is still goin', huh

 

[X-sanguinate86]

Re "I want mass admiration from women" = narcissism, I'm not sure that's how it would be seen if it was a woman saying "I want mass admiration from men", which I'm pretty sure would be a true statement for most women. Or maybe most women are (perhaps by nature) narcissists.

Re Elliot Rogers I believe he was smaller than average and notably, mixed race. He was not richer than the kids in his environment. He was rejected by them because his parents were garbage and created a biologically marginal person who they then further failed by not properly mentoring and integrating into his environment. The autism just aggravated the situation so eventually he went crazy. I really wonder whether his parents can be dispensed of culpability just because he was autistic. I don't believe so. I think they are in large part responsible for how that ended.

Imo women care slightly less about looks than men but they still carre. The reason it is a serious concern is that it seems like modern hook-up culture with smartphone dating apps is exponentially accelerating a process whereby women get addicted to "dream guys" (aka "chads") and attention rather than seeking out regular guys - whether good looking or not - to have real relationships with. It has already started to destroy humanity and will result in planetary chaos. Hopefully humanity will just be wiped out in the process.

 

[Dejected 55]

Imo women care slightly less about looks than men but they still carre. The reason it is a serious concern is that it seems like modern hook-up culture with smartphone dating apps is exponentially accelerating a process whereby women get addicted to "dream guys" (aka "chads") and attention rather than seeking out regular guys - whether good looking or not - to have real relationships with. It has already started to destroy humanity and will result in planetary chaos. Hopefully humanity will just be wiped out in the process.

You touched on something I've thought about from my male perspective as well. A lot of men do not swipe right on dating apps unless the women post really attractive photos. A lot of men do not approach/ask women in real life unless they are considered societally pretty. Why? Often times it is purely about the preference of the man... but there is also a significant percentage of the time when the man figures he is likely to get rejected, because that is the male experience... ask a 100 women out to get a handful of positive interactions, maybe leading to 1-2 dates and then being ghosted... SO... a man going into this scenario figures IF he is going to get rejected, might as well be rejected by the most attractive women. It doesn't hurt his ego as much to be rejected by someone he thinks might be out of his league anyway... but if an "average" female rejects him, he will feel worse. And, let's be fair... "average" women are just as likely to reject him anyway.

I think women are increasingly behaving similarly... as in... if they think a man is going to be horrible anyway or that the relationship isn't going to last or he will mistreat her anyway... she might as well fail with a handsome man than with an ugly one.

And all of this feeds into my observations that no one seems to want meaningful connections anymore... just surface level... maybe sex, maybe not, but definitely not looking for true life-partners for the long term. It's not always just hook-up culture, but people only trying for the minimal short-term involvement. Partially because a lot of people seem to be shallow... but also I think because most people are afraid of being hurt so if they don't really try they think it hurts less to lose a partner they didn't really ever want in the first place... as opposed to going all-in on someone and they let you down.

The problem with all this is... you're increasing the odds of your failure.

Randomly... a friend of mine once told me of an ex-girlfriend he had... and because most of the time she was doing laundry several of her shirts were turned inside out in the dryer... she started turning ALL of her shirts that way before putting them in the dryer... which, if you think about it... is a waste... because it wasn't all her shirts... so all she was doing was creating extra work for herself on the front end and having zero effect on how many shirts she still had to turn right-side out after drying.

My point there is... people do things that are harder to try and avoid potential problems and it does nothing on the back-end and only hurts more on the front-end.

I imagine relationships are hard. I have to imagine because no one has ever wanted to be in one with me... but if you're so afraid you'll get rejected that you only give the prettiest people a chance, you're cutting off a LOT of good people and almost ensuring you are going to always get hurt. I can't say looks never plays a part, because usually it is the first thing you know about someone... but I've always had a wide range of women I found attractive and I was far more attracted to the ones I got to know a little and liked their personality and behavior and beliefs/passions... Didn't help me at all to not get rejected... probably did always hurt worse because I was being rejected always by people I'd put some time into knowing and really liked... so them rejecting me hurt like hell... and maybe if I just asked random women and only approached the "hot" ones, I'd still get as many rejections but it might sting less in the moment... but I'd still be alone and miserable, so what would I have really accomplished?

Men and women are both developing increasingly divergent views on relationships, from my perspective, that are only going to inhibit good relationships increasingly over time. It's sad to see. Not just for me being alone... but seeing how very few people have real meaningful relationships anymore even if they aren't as alone and miserable as I am.

 

[persepexa]

You can change your appearance you know. There are lots of cheap ways to make yourself look and feel more attractive. Everyone has some attractive features, you just need to find yours and accentuate them. You could go to the gym and get ripped, could wear clothes that maybe suit you better, maybe a bit more stylish (some styles are always in), get a more flattering haircut. I completely agree that looks matter tbh. We live in a society that judges everyone based on how they look but there are lots of things you can do, it's not hopeless. If you're a man, a well groomed beard can do wonders. People go from a 3 to an 8, not even joking.

 

[Dejected 55]

You can change your appearance you know. There are lots of cheap ways to make yourself look and feel more attractive. Everyone has some attractive features, you just need to find yours and accentuate them. You could go to the gym and get ripped, could wear clothes that maybe suit you better, maybe a bit more stylish (some styles are always in), get a more flattering haircut. I completely agree that looks matter tbh. We live in a society that judges everyone based on how they look but there are lots of things you can do, it's not hopeless. If you're a man, a well groomed beard can do wonders. People go from a 3 to an 8, not even joking.

It's fair that some things can be done... But it's also subjective. I saw a video of a woman on YouTube who was talking about her boyfriend and how he always liked a certain Instagram model so she started getting surgeries to look more like that woman... until her boyfriend broke up with her. I felt sorry for her, but also at the same time her boyfriend kind of fell out of love with her because she was changing herself to improve to become something he never asked her to do.

Not all women like "ripped" men... not all men like "ripped" women. You could work really hard at "improving" your looks only to find it doesn't matter. I actually did that in my early 30s... got into the best shape of my life and it didn't matter at all. There are gorgeous women and handsome men who are alone too because they aren't finding companionship who values them for who they are on the inside.

"Ugly" people seem to have it worse, for sure... I say that as an ugly person myself... but it's not like pretty people are without problems and have unfulfilling lives or relationships. Telling an "ugly" person to "improve your looks" is a lot like telling the suicidal person "be in a better mood because it gets better" and we all know how much we hate that.

 

[persepexa]

It's fair that some things can be done... But it's also subjective. I saw a video of a woman on YouTube who was talking about her boyfriend and how he always liked a certain Instagram model so she started getting surgeries to look more like that woman... until her boyfriend broke up with her. I felt sorry for her, but also at the same time her boyfriend kind of fell out of love with her because she was changing herself to improve to become something he never asked her to do.

Not all women like "ripped" men... not all men like "ripped" women. You could work really hard at "improving" your looks only to find it doesn't matter. I actually did that in my early 30s... got into the best shape of my life and it didn't matter at all. There are gorgeous women and handsome men who are alone too because they aren't finding companionship who values them for who they are on the inside.

"Ugly" people seem to have it worse, for sure... I say that as an ugly person myself... but it's not like pretty people are without problems and have unfulfilling lives or relationships. Telling an "ugly" person to "improve your looks" is a lot like telling the suicidal person "be in a better mood because it gets better" and we all know how much we hate that.

Tbh it's not about making other people find you attractive it's about feeling attractive in yourself. Looking in the mirror and liking what you see. The outside and the inside are connected tbh. The goal isn't about attracting everyone it's about attracting the right people into your life. I personally am not attracted to "ripped" physiques, I just find they come with a lot of narcissism and hidden insecurity. I just feel like saying you're ugly and therefore you're written off by society is a bit incorrect because people change their looks all the time. Doesn't even have to be surgery there are lots of underrated ways people change their looks. But if you're telling yourself you're ugly, not doing anything to put effort into your appearance, not doing anything to boost your confidence, and focusing on people who have what you think you lack of course you're not gonna get anywhere, ya know?

 

[Dejected 55]

Tbh it's not about making other people find you attractive it's about feeling attractive in yourself. Looking in the mirror and liking what you see. The outside and the inside are connected tbh. The goal isn't about attracting everyone it's about attracting the right people into your life. I personally am not attracted to "ripped" physiques, I just find they come with a lot of narcissism and hidden insecurity. I just feel like saying you're ugly and therefore you're written off by society is a bit incorrect because people change their looks all the time. Doesn't even have to be surgery there are lots of underrated ways people change their looks. But if you're telling yourself you're ugly, not doing anything to put effort into your appearance, not doing anything to boost your confidence, and focusing on people who have what you think you lack of course you're not gonna get anywhere, ya know?

To some degree, yes... but these answers given to people who think they are ugly, are usually people who have been told they are ugly so it isn't just their lack of self-confidence... but how people have treated them that informed their self-doubt. And your point about not finding narcissistic people attractive is valid and connects to my thoughts... maybe at least some of those people were once told they were ugly and needed to work on themselves... and they did the work and nothing changed for them and they felt like people were just toying with them and then their personality changed for the worst because all they could do was keep improving, and after putting all that work in and being told that was what they had to do they started feeling like they were owed something. It's wrong, of course, to think like that... but society ruins good people sometimes by forcing them to become things they are not to appeal to others.

We are told to not value ourselves based on how others see us... then we are told we are ugly and don't deserve anyone unless we work for it... then we are told we are trying too hard... it never ends. I actually once had a woman telling me such things, "do this then I'll tell you what to do next" and it was a fast road to nowhere.

Most ugly people don't start out thinking they are ugly. Most of them start out just like anyone else... being themselves and going up to people and being friendly and trying to connect... and they get rejected and told enough times they are ugly that they start to internalize it. Then the cycle starts of "love yourself" vs "you need to change yourself" and all those mixed signals can drive a person crazy.

 

[aRose]

Pretty privilege is very real but, like racism or sexism or any other 'ism really, no one admits to it openly. We all have innate biases that have be proven and studied but yet No One Does

I wasn't even born that cute but being mid in a pretty bias world has shown me enough to know I'd rather not get uglier.

 

[LetMeOut67]

I was born late 1960s brought up in the 70s and early 80s, cosmetic surgery was quite rare (as were serious mental problems) society for whatever reason has become brutal and animalistic and people now think their life is over if they don't like how they look.
That's a very considerable hurdle to overcome.

This fucking hellscape is evil and that's why voluntary assisted euthanasia should be legalised. I believe that being weak in this world now is a fate worse than death.
If I could, I'd nuke this entire cesspool to dust.

 

[X-sanguinate86]

I was born late 1960s brought up in the 70s and early 80s, cosmetic surgery was quite rare (as were serious mental problems) society for whatever reason has become brutal and animalistic and people now think their life is over if they don't like how they look.
That's a very considerable hurdle to overcome.

This fucking hellscape is evil and that's why voluntary assisted euthanasia should be legalised. I believe that being weak in this world now is a fate worse than death.
If I could, I'd nuke this entire cesspool to dust.

That's right. There have been a lot of ticking time bombs people didn't want to admit were time bombs. Now they're finding out they should've been more honest. Too late though: helter skelter is coming down to a neighborhood near you very soon :).

All these liars can find out just how bad things can get. Everyone's quality of life who isn't in the top .01% is getting increasingly worse over time hahaha.

 

[Morte]

Holy yapsesh, but yea i meant more that he should try to date girls that arent gorgeous. I dont know if he does but i see a lot of men only going for stunning women then get pissed when those women dont want them and just assume no women ever will just because of that. I meant he should try if he already didnt - try to date "ugly" girls. And i see a shit ton of girls actually going for these "ugly" men, but rarely the other way around. So he should have a chance if he has a good heart


You can groom and look up ways to improve your appearance. And life is more than being good looking - especially for a man. I see ugly dudes with pretty women on a daily basis but rarely an ugly girl with a hot guy. So if your an "ugly" man - you still have a chance if you have a good heart and treat people/girls right. Incels mainly exist because they have shitty personalities too.
Anyway i know how you feel ive been ugly once too, you can always work on your appearance. But you shouldnt let it consume your entire life

i think OP doesn't want to make an effort to improve himself and he doesn't want to settle for anything less than great, because some people are born with the best and it feels unfair. it's understandable, since he didn't ask for this life and these problems, so it's also not fair that society expect him to overcome these problems.
Some things cannot be changed with effort either. i can't be charismatic because I'm autistic and full of ptsd. I have below average intelligence in most fields.
multiply that with being hideous looking and im beyond saving.