Discussion What’s something pro-lifers are not ready to hear?

[tsykoais]

i'll start, not everybody has people in their real lives that are "there for them, and would be truly sad if they died." and some people's situations just can not get better.

 

[AliceinNeverland]

For a lot of people, the mere possibility of future joy/success is not worth enduring current suffering.

 

[thewalkingdread]

They don't like to hear at all that pro-life and natalism are the one and the same pain-beggetting ouroboros — an evil snake that creates and perpetuates all the misery and suffering of this needless, pointless, sentient existence.

 

[Hotsackage]

Don't expect people that are in agony to just push through and try and live a normal life regardless. If they had what some of us have, they would bury themselves in 10 seconds

 

[Sluggish_Slump]

that wanting to die peacefully rather than violently does not mean you don't want to die bad enough and they're not saints for preventing us to get "murdered" by the eViLL suppliers... (overly-restricting peaceful methods by shutting them down completely is disgusting)

 

[baabbaabbaab]

that wanting to die peacefully rather than violently does not mean you don't want to die bad enough and they're not saints for preventing us to get "murdered" by the eViLL suppliers... (overly-restricting peaceful methods by shutting them down completely is disgusting)

Totally.

I'd say : killing yourself is not easy (and it's an understatement).

I said it in another thread : a politician in my country said there was no need to legalize assisted suicide or such things, because everyone has all the means they can wish for to suicide at home, in everyday objects. What an a******...

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

prolifers are not ready to hear that we all will die anyway no matter what happens wether we suicide or not we all die

That pain or suffering can be a billion times worse than you can imagine

That the horrible things that can happen nothing is worth going through that ,the worst torture imaginable

That after Death is non-existence forever

That non-existence forever is the ultimate bliss

 

[thewalkingdread]

If they had what some of us have, they would bury themselves in 10 seconds

I don't know, man... Pro-lifers/natalists are weirdly over-adapted to suffering. Their proneness to self-deception makes them the most dellusional people on planet Earth.

If you mix religious beliefs in it, they'll end up with a holiday praising the suposedly "miraculous" life of a middle-eastern rebel who was brutally tortured and murdered by crucifixion.

And that, somehow, is supposed to be an admirable, lovely, thing... for everyone to be inspired by universally.

 

[Mea Culpa]

They blame this site for losing loved ones but dont bother to think why they came here instead of going to them.

 

[FuneralCry]

That existence itself is the problem rather than the perfectly valid wish to be free from it. It's not an illness wishing for a permanent release from having the ability to suffer in an existence we never even consented to being in the first place. Actually I see suicide as something as very rational as there is no limit as to how much one can suffer in this meaningless and pointless existence. It's disturbing how this world is filled with endless cruelty and torment, I don't believe it's desirable to exist no matter what.

 

[SilentSadness]

Pro lifers are not ready to hear that death is inevitable.

 

[thewalkingdread]

Pro lifers are not ready to hear that death is inevitable.

That's right in the bullseye!

I've never seen a pro-lifer/natalist thinking that the (new) sentient life might suffer horrendously or die... The "forecast" is always sunshine and rainbows.

 

[Forever Sleep]

- That they aren't us. We may never see life the way they see it. Stop projecting what you value, what you predict, what you can cope with on someone you likely know very little about.

- That you can't just blame all suicides on mental illness. I don't personally believe it always goes hand in hand. I think it's just a convenient excuse they use to say that the person was unbalanced. That's easier to ignore if it's a 'crazy' individual overeacting to a perfectly normal standard of life. Was their standard of life normal? If not- why not? Are they sure it's that person's unbalanced reaction to life rather than life itself?

- That even mentally ill people can demonstrate reasoning in their decision making. Therefore- when they can demonstrate that reasoning- they ought to have autonomy over their own lives.

- That we aren't obliged to live. We didn't sign a contract. We weren't given the choice.

- That suicide prevention is for the main part for those left behind I believe. Maybe the person would get better but quite possibly not. How much do you care about the well being of that person- really? Do you really care if they are still struggling in life? So long as they are alive? Does that really mean you care about their welfare or your own?

 

[Circles]

That all of our suffering happens for no reason at all, it can't be reasoned with no matter what people choose to believe why life is the way it is. People's rose tinted view of the world gets shattered when confronted by reality that other people have to face blindly choosing to ignore the fact that life begins and ends in suffering. And once you're dead it will be like you never existed at all from the point of view of being dead and unaware of any reality. Whatever the truth of reality that may be or why we exist at all, there's no silver lining in any suffering in this pointless meat grinder filled with meaningless pain. I wish the world made sense, but making sense of any of this is or choosing to blindly believe our pain happens for a reason is an absolute and utter waste of time.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

For a lot of people, the mere possibility of future joy/success is not worth enduring current suffering.

Absolutely this!

 

[thewalkingdread]

Pro-lifers/natalists frequently accuse us, pro-choicers/anti-natalists, of being on the totalitarian/paternalistic "side" of the whole controversy because we are suposedly trying to impose our "psychopathic" views on others. This a long shot from being true.

Pro-lifers/natalists like to distort our stance, completely inverting the reality of the facts. Saying that we are paternalistic is the straw that breaks the Camel's back.

We are actually being very considerate and respectful about not ruling over other persons lives. That's why the consent argument is so important to us in the first place, in spite of all the debauchery pro-lifers/natalists make about it.

That's why accusing us of being "paternalistic" is ridiculously absurd: it's a contradiction obviously presented by the word's etymology.

We literally don't want to be anyone's father/mother precisely because we don't want nor take any pleasure in bossing people around.

Having a child — or treating an adult person as if he is one — is literally the most paternalistic thing one can do.

 

[MourningBird]

That we're forced here entirely against our own will and nobody has to stay here if they don't want to.

 

[R_N]

That they will decay/die/lose things they are attached to.

Everyone knows about death of course but putting that fact far into the future makes people feel eternal while they still live. Human mind really knows how to delude itself just to keep going without losing fuel. And when someone dies it always amazed me how others make it seem like they won't as well. Like it is something that won't happen to everyone. "Poor x, so sad they had to die. If only they lived". Like us.

 

[thewalkingdread]

Human mind really knows how to delude itself just to keep going without losing fuel. And when someone dies it always amazed me how others make it seem like they won't as well.

Pro-lifers/natalists somehow regard themselves as demigods or something... when actually they should be regarded as the "original sinners". Because they are obviously the father/mother — the patrons! — of all of the tragedies and evils that inevitably come as consequences of creating life.

One can't ever get raped, tortured, violated, sick, old, dead, etc if one is never born.

So, it's a pretty straightforward syllogism as basic as the classical in philosophy 101:

1. All men are mortal
2. Socrates is a Man.
3. Therefore, Socrates is mortal.

Astonishingly, many people fail at very this simple logics when the subject is being pro-choice/anti-natalist.

Somehow they think they are immune to tragedy and mortality — ironically, like the dellusional psyche of Socrates believed he was...

 

[notherenotnow]

Stopping someone from suicide doesnt make you a hero.

 

[Abyssal]

"You aren't helping "

 

[LunarLynx]

They aren't ready to hear that some people are not happy, and don't want to try no more. They just want to end it now. Not after suffering a "lifetime".

They aren't ready to hear that some people have "everything to be happy" but they just aren't.

They aren't ready to hear that some people are "happy" but don't like to live, don't like to be there and just want to be free.

They aren't ready to hear that some people just DON'T want to live (if we look at the start, we are all forced to live, it's not our will).

They aren't ready to hear that some people are living in a day to day pain, and consider death as their only solution.

They aren't ready to hear that some people are alone, they have no one by their side.

And mostly, they aren't ready to hear that some people live in pain cause of physical or mental disability.


sorry for my bad english, I'm not native

 

[sylvey]

"i want to die."

 

[ijustwishtodie]

They just aren't willing to accept anything that goes against the rose tainted view of the world that they have.

They also fail to acknowledge individuality between people and, because of this, they think that everybody is the same.

They fail to acknowledge that not everybody wants/can't be recovered and that forced suicide prevention tactics are harmful for some rather than useful

They fail to understand that not everybody was born with skills that they have and hence have to work way harder than others just to be on the same level as the majority

They fail to understand that not everybody wants to be a wage slave for the rest of their lives and that justifications (such as the fallacy of relative privation when they say "you should stop complaining about work because people in the past suffered through worse")

Most important of them all, they fail to understand how to stop believing that all humans are precious and should live no matter what (aside from terminal illnesses) and that this causes some people more suffering by forcing them to be here when they don't want to be here. Because of this, we're all here right now

 

[AsexualArgonianBard]

A thought-provoking question, indeed. I'll start by saying that I wish my mother hadn't made the decision to keep me; it was foolish of her. I was an unwanted pregnancy, and though the family pressured her to get an abortion, she chose to keep me anyways. Now, to be clear, I'm not resentful of her because I'm alive. I'm resentful of her because she had no business bringing a child into this world that she couldn't take care of. The toddler that was once me didn't deserve to go through all that suffering. I only wish she'd listened to the older, wiser people around her. I could've avoided being an adult woman's punching bag and therapist alike. Really, she was more like a bully of an older sister than a parent to me.

Pro-lifers say, "Well, that's a living being! There's a human in there, and it deserves to live!"
I ask, "It deserves to live and suffer through your apparent inability to care for yourself, let alone another person? Don't you think that's rather selfish?"

 

[DazaiKinnie]

Things that they aren't ready to hear:
No one is forced to stay alive for their comfort, they have the choice to exit. Forcing someone to live is akin to keeping someone trapped in your basement just because you like the person.
Living and dying are both valid choices.
Someone doesn't need a reason to want to die.

 

[Kasumi]

Forcing people to go through endless suffering is cruel, the saying "things worse than death" isn't for nothing.

 

[Slow_Farewell]

The value of life and living is solely dependent on the person going through that life.

 

[huphup]

Just because you have a good life or know people who do, doesn't mean that my life is automatically not that bad. This reasoning makes no sense to me but seems to be used so much

Things could get better, but they also could get worse. Although noone can predict with 100% accuracy, I think we can make good predictions about which zone we fall into.

Mental illness is brutal and not fully recoverable sometimes. The most treatable illnesses (anxiety and depression) still have impacts on people's lives even if their symptoms improve.

Suicide is not impulsive and a rational choice most of the time. Suicidal people are in really bad situations.

Depressed people have a more realistic view of the world (Depressive realism). Their "negative perception" is just not having rose-tinted glasses on. My thoughts wanting to CTB maybe have some merit. They are there for a reason.

 

[Forever_Sleep]

Totally.

I'd say : killing yourself is not easy (and it's an understatement).

I said it in another thread : a politician in my country said there was no need to legalize assisted suicide or such things, because everyone has all the means they can wish for to suicide at home, in everyday objects. What an a******...

God, only someone who has never thought about it for more than three seconds would think this

EDIT: to be clear, I'm agreeing with u that the politician is an a******