Discussion What’s after death?

[The Disinherited]

Link? Not doubting you, I'm just interested. I suspect a lax definition of brain death was used, but I would love to read about it.
For those who are interested, an overview of brain death from the NHS:

Brain death

Brain stem death is where a person no longer has any brain stem functions, and has permanently lost the potential for consciousness and the capacity to breathe.

www.nhs.uk

I can't give you a direct link, but it is one of the points I remember Bernardo Kastrup addressing in "Brief Peeks" IF i remember right, hopefully its not in some other book so I don't send you on a wild goose chase.

 

[Mocon33]

I can't give you a direct link, but it is one of the points I remember Bernardo Kastrup addressing in "Brief Peeks" IF i remember right, hopefully its not in some other book so I don't send you on a wild goose chase.

I haven't read "Brief Peeks" yet but here is a rather convoluted metaphysical argument he makes for the existence of consciousness after death:

https://philarchive.org/archive/KASTIV

 

[The Disinherited]

I haven't read "Brief Peeks" yet but here is a rather convoluted metaphysical argument he makes for the existence of consciousness after death:

https://philarchive.org/archive/KASTIV

I don't want to download anything sir, would you like to summarise it or why you think he's wrong, I only cited him there because I remember him addressing the point you made earlier, and he did it succinctly, his writings are super easy to read and I also enjoyed reading Edward Feser's writings on the scholastics and his arguments against materialism. All easy to digest writings that essentially summarise past schools of thought (With Kastrup it's Schopenhauer and the idealists, and with Feser it's Aquinas, Aristotle and the scholastics). Mind > matter, all day every day.

 

[sorry-i-need-help]

peace and quiet and the same as pre-birth. like an eternal break from your mind torturing you. I like to think of it as going back to being a baby even tho i don't believe i'll actually be born again, but that both states (before life and after life) have nothing to differentiate them. it's nice, I can just pretend to be not yet born in my head. I just become another state of nonexistence. in a few decades (or centuries for famous people), everyone who remembered you existed will be gone. you'll just be information lost to the universe

 

[Ta555]

Nothing is after death. You won't even know you're dead. As hard as it is for me to wrap my head around. It's almost impossible to imagine not being conscious. But there it is. Ideally, I would like to go to an alternate universe where I spend eternity with my anime husbando and we have hot sex every day and basically just live happily ever after. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for that. But realistically, nothing happens.

 

[Shu]

Nothing until Yahshua raises us back to life for the final judgment. Oh wait! That's already happening! We've already died and been brought back for judgment! Either you get your spiritual body (which doesn't die) and you live for eternity in the higher dimensions (the heavens) or you die the second death. Which means destruction. Just kidding. I have no idea. I stopped caring. Although I am still scared of dying.

 

[Ta555]

Energy isn't created or destroyed, it's just changed.
When a person dies, the energy of that person is no longer bound to their body.
Reincarnation is more probable than anything else.

It is impossible for there to be nothing, other wise we'd still be in that state now.


The 'pre birth feeling of nothingness' is your consciousness tuning into a different frequency.

Meaning that pre birth state would never be permanent. Time etc is a human construct 24 hours in a day etc. It is meaningless.

Even the primitive mainstream science we have now accepts that we only see 0.05 percent of things as 'visible light' rest of what is out there is impossible to see with our limited frequencies.

I am not thrilled on the idea of Reincarnation but it is most probable.

Where as The Nothingness theory has no merit other than people with depression just my opinion.

I'm sorry but this is such new age BS I can't even...
Yes, energy is not destroyed. The heat energy from your body gets released into the atmosphere. The chemical energy stored in your cells is passed on to decomposers as they eat you. If you're cremated, again, it's heat energy.
I hate is so much how people use the "energy is not created or destroyed" concept in such new age, completely incorrect ways.

 

[The Disinherited]

I'm sorry but this is such new age BS I can't even...
Yes, energy is not destroyed. The heat energy from your body gets released into the atmosphere. The chemical energy stored in your cells is passed on to decomposers as they eat you. If you're cremated, again, it's heat energy.
I hate is so much how people use the "energy is not created or destroyed" concept in such new age, completely incorrect ways.

Reincarnation is so pointless, you don't remember your past lives and you won't remember your future ones "oh but NOT nothing happens when you die"...yeah Ill stick with survival of the ego thank you very much. I agree, New Age BS

 

[eremito]

From my research, and I've done alot, there seems to be an astonishing volume of reports from those who crossed the line and came back to suggest that there is something. People frequently tells about a blissful state of love, peace and freedom. Myself, as a believing Christian, belive in Heaven. It just doesn't make sense that this is all there is; there's gotta be more, and there is more evidence for this than for anything else it seems.

I think the reason many people would want for it to not be anything more, is because they view it in their current mental perspective; and a prolonging of existence seems hazardious if one considers it a prolonging of the current state; but if they would consider all their problems gone and being replaced by love, then I cannot see why we wouldn't want to experience it. :)

and what if I told you that I watched interviews with a (German) atheist on youtube. He reported the same experience, light, a strange name which appeared by his side. The experience was overall quite positive in his case. So my hypothesis is that - maybe - all those Biblical figures and ancestors - are a form of search for safety. A person who is dying seeks a safe haven, a refuge. This drive to safety produces positive experience

 

[MicropBaldCurrycel]

I am 100 percent certain and know that there is nothing after death , Putting my knowledge and logic and reason as to how the brain and life works as well as physical possibilities and scientific impossibilities to me i am sure that everything that makes a person a person is in their brain.... also its too impossible for there to be a magical invisible world where we go to after we die , we can look at cases of brain damage and brain death to confirm that all personality and experiences are stored in the brain.

Everything that exists in this world is physical or can be proven or has a strong hypothesis .

near death experiences are nothing but the hallucinations of an oxygen deprived brain trying to make sense of what's going on. There's no reason to think it's a supernatural phenomenon .

Theres also chemicals released in our brain to comfort us such as DMT , chemicals are being released , neurons are firing all over the place , theres alot of brain activity and its comforting you .

Christians see jesus , hindus see hanuman , catholics see mother mary , budishts see buddha some people see dead relatives etc..

I know it may sound arrogant so say that i know what happens after death but i do know to me thinking deeply about it.

I wish there was something after death really id be happy and i wish there was a god but i cant delude myself into a false belief for a false sense of hope.

Also the fact that we cant experience anything after death is relieving, it means ultimately nothing we experience matters as once we are gone we forget we ever existed, forget what people say, dont have any thought or pain , just oblivion .

 

[eremito]

I am 100 percent certain and know that there is nothing after death

And I will humbly admit that I am not and I don't

 

[MicropBaldCurrycel]

And I will humbly admit that I am not and I don't

thats fine thats you .

 

[EternalSlumber]

Nothingness. You'll be too dead to care anyways. I don't actually believe in reincarnation. Although I guess it's nice to think about.

 

[Mocon33]

I don't want to download anything sir, would you like to summarise it or why you think he's wrong, I only cited him there because I remember him addressing the point you made earlier, and he did it succinctly, his writings are super easy to read and I also enjoyed reading Edward Feser's writings on the scholastics and his arguments against materialism. All easy to digest writings that essentially summarise past schools of thought (With Kastrup it's Schopenhauer and the idealists, and with Feser it's Aquinas, Aristotle and the scholastics). Mind > matter, all day every day.

His arguments all depend on speculation, especially on the idea that there is a "universal consciousness". He presents no evidence for such a thing, he doesn't even try to guess where or how the necessary processing could be supported without a brain. It's an exercise in wishful thinking, couched in flowery language, evidently in an attempt to make the reader think that there is something scientific about his speculations, there is not.

 

[BittersweetSymphony]

Who knows? But I like to daydream that there's a special club in heaven for everyone who has ever died by their own hand. I would hang out and talk literature with Sylvia Plath, jam with Ian Curtis and Kurt Cobain, and Anthony Bourdain would teach me how to cook. That would kick ass!

 

[MementoMori81]

how reliable/unreliable are reports about near-death-experience for you? Upon dying, people can see their late relatives welcoming them and sense the presence of spiritual beings at their side.
Those reports are mostly quiet, peaceful and positive. Have you heard any reports about near death experience from a person who did CTB? Where they negative?
Most people saw lights and was travelling in a tunnel. But this is a Christian version of the story.
What experiences are reported by non-religious people: atheists, agnostics?
What experiences are reported by people who observe other religions than Christianity?

Please be aware, however, that NDE experiences can only be told by those who have undergone clinical death. Once an individual is biologically dead, there's no coming back.

There is now some pretty strong scientific evidence that suggests endorphins and other chemicals that are released in high amounts during moments of extreme stress, such as when near to death, are most likely responsible for the brain activity and psychoactive effects (hallucinations) that people who've had NDEs report (light and tunnels and so on).

That said, the experiences vary greatly from seeing loved ones, travelling down a tunnel toward a bright light, being stood in the middle of nowhere. An interesting one that I read about was from a man who said he could see noting but perfectly still, glass like shallow water, few inches deep let's say, all around him reaching as far as the eye could see. The sky, he said, was a very faint purple, and he could stars, upon upon stars. He also relayed that, his vision wasn't how it is when awake - an oval field of vision - so I imagine like eyes not set into a head, and that looking down, he had no body. So like pure awareness suspended in that place. He said he didn't feel scared, not in the least and that a deep calm and peace pervaded his entire being, albeit an invisible being.


As someone who believes that the nothingness, the non existence before birth, is what we return to after death, I do wonder if these hallucinations that the mind undergoes are the bodies way of making it easier?

This subject interests me, fills me with a feeling of calm, but also a real sense of wonder all at the same time. Can't help but feel that, should I take the step to CTB? Mate, what an adventure, it's the greatest step into the unknown imaginable.

 

[SanitySalvage]

I have no idea, but what I do know is I definitely don't want to come back.
Thinking about the theory that after we die and roam around a while, we can choose to start a new life, I just want to say: Past me was a fool for doing so if that's how it works

 

[downndone2]

Cyanide can be painless. It's really individual on how you react to it.

Did you know some people have a gene which makes them able to detect cyanide by smell? HCN specifically.

Cyanide sure doesnt look painless.

 

[Shu]

Please be aware, however, that NDE experiences can only be told by those who have undergone clinical death. Once an individual is biologically dead, there's no coming back.

There is now some pretty strong scientific evidence that suggests endorphins and other chemicals that are released in high amounts during moments of extreme stress, such as when near to death, are most likely responsible for the brain activity and psychoactive effects (hallucinations) that people who've had NDEs report (light and tunnels and so on).

That said, the experiences vary greatly from seeing loved ones, travelling down a tunnel toward a bright light, being stood in the middle of nowhere. An interesting one that I read about was from a man who said he could see noting but perfectly still, glass like shallow water, few inches deep let's say, all around him reaching as far as the eye could see. The sky, he said, was a very faint purple, and he could stars, upon upon stars. He also relayed that, his vision wasn't how it is when awake - an oval field of vision - so I imagine like eyes not set into a head, and that looking down, he had no body. So like pure awareness suspended in that place. He said he didn't feel scared, not in the least and that a deep calm and peace pervaded his entire being, albeit an invisible being.


As someone who believes that the nothingness, the non existence before birth, is what we return to after death, I do wonder if these hallucinations that the mind undergoes are the bodies way of making it easier?

This subject interests me, fills me with a feeling of calm, but also a real sense of wonder all at the same time. Can't help but feel that, should I take the step to CTB? Mate, what an adventure, it's the greatest step into the unknown imaginable.

I saw myself from outside of my body at some point and everything that was going on around me. When I woke up the person who did cpr on me confirmed how I explained what I saw is exactly how it happened up until the point that I woke up which freaked me the hell out.

Cyanide sure doesnt look painless.

Because it's not painless lol

 

[MrShino]

and what if I told you that I watched interviews with a (German) atheist on youtube. He reported the same experience, light, a strange name which appeared by his side. The experience was overall quite positive in his case. So my hypothesis is that - maybe - all those Biblical figures and ancestors - are a form of search for safety. A person who is dying seeks a safe haven, a refuge. This drive to safety produces positive experience

It seems also from experiences I have read that atheists as well report such things, I think I highlighted that in another post on the same issue. You may have some points; maybe they act as forms of safety that thus leads to positive experiences. This is a good thing though; I'd rather believe in something that comforts me with hope and good expectation than nothing at all. Even if it wouldn't be true, at least it acts as a positive force both in life and in the moment facing death. Our search should nevertheless be for truth and not for hopes with no basis in reality, so I believe these things should rest on a firm belief for their truthfulness. I do not believe in God for the sake of comfort, even if it brings it, I believe in it because I think it's true and it makes sense in the grand of scheme of things for me. Such a complex and diverse universe filled with intelligence and life could not possibly come by itself and life would be quite meaningless if it all goes to nothing in the end anyway.

 

[narudo]

I would imagine it being like living inside a black hole in outer space

 

[Eris666]

This reality is in fact HELL!!! We have already died, been judged, and been sent here for punishment! When we die here we are just reincarnated/reborn back to this shithole. Repeat for all eternity...

are you speaking about the soul trap theory?

 

[MementoMori81]

I saw myself from outside of my body at some point and everything that was going on around me. When I woke up the person who did cpr on me confirmed how I explained what I saw is exactly how it happened up until the point that I woke up which freaked me the hell out.

Because it's not painless lol

Insane what the body/mind does during times of high stress, such as you've described.
Funny thing about the mind, the brain; it can do the most amazing things, help you navigate all manner of issues, topical questions, create unbelievable things and yet, the thing can seemingly turn on you and drive you to insanity and suicide. Crazy.

 

[l0stc4use]

i want it to be just be nothingness like how it was before we were born, but i also believe in spirits and ghosts so i don't really know

 

[MrShino]

i want it to be just be nothingness like how it was before we were born, but i also believe in spirits and ghosts so i don't really know

But we dont know if that was how it was before we were born. It could just as well be something that we forgot about during birth. I have some trouble understand why people want nothingness so much. Wouldn't a blissful existence immersed in love be better to wish for? I guess there's nothing wrong with nothingness though, as there are no possibilites to dislike such a 'non-state of being'. But for me, I would rather be immersed in love than become nothing. Well, well, what we want it to be doesn't really matter does it, it is what it is and it will be what it will be.

 

[l0stc4use]

But we dont know if that was how it was before we were born. It could just as well be something that we forgot about during birth. I have some trouble understand why people want nothingness so much. Wouldn't a blissful existence immersed in love be better to wish for? I guess there's nothing wrong with nothingness though, as there are no possibilites to dislike such a 'non-state of being'. But for me, I would rather be immersed in love than become nothing. Well, well, what we want it to be doesn't really matter does it, it is what it is and it will be what it will be.

personally i just want nothing bc even if the afterlife is filled with love, what if we still have mental illness there, u know?

 

[MrShino]

personally i just want nothing bc even if the afterlife is filled with love, what if we still have mental illness there, u know?

So what you want is not really nothingness, but to be free from mental illness? :) There are NDE accounts that tells that all their troubles were gone when they reached 'the other side', but I guess we can't know for sure. I personally do not believe that there is mental illness there, albeit perhaps mental states that are not ordinary or 'normal'.

 

[Sittichmutter]

We are spirits living in physical bodies.
We do not die. We just go back to another dimension.
That is why CTBing is a problem... We have to go through life to evolve. To learn to love, to forgive and be charitable to other living beings. But then, we break this process and have to start all over again...

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

are you speaking about the soul trap theory?

No

 

[MrShino]

We are spirits living in physical bodies.
We do not die. We just go back to another dimension.
That is why CTBing is a problem... We have to go through life to evolve. To learn to love, to forgive and be charitable to other living beings. But then, we break this process and have to start all over again...

I believe you are somewhat right, my friend. That we are more than flesh and bones. I also believe that we must endure hardships to evolve. I am not sure, however, if I believe we have to start all over again if we chose to end this process. I believe life has many ways; as well as our spiritual evolution. I have had these thoughts, that perhaps, to greet death - to face the unknown fully, could be part of the process as well. It takes great courage to die I believe, it's not 'the easy way out'. It takes determination and courage facing the unknown in a way that is unparallelled in our lives. To leave everything known behind. But then again, these are just some thoughts, and I would never suggest that others would do it for this reason, although I am pro-choice and believe that people have the right to catch the train if they so choose, to end a miserable existence. Anything else would for me seem inhumane.

But why do I feel the urge to do it? Why do I so strongly feel it as a solution? I didn't use to, I never was one for suicidal idealization. Life has propelled me in this direction, not me. Uncertainty, though, waver like a storm in the ocean. It bothers me, that we never can be sure of what is the right thing to do. It could be a temptation, a longing that must be postponed and overcome. But what if it is the spirit's longing for home? For peace that can never be found here. What if it is the way? It might sound counter-intuitive, we have all been taught that we should continue living, but really, for whatever cost? Maybe the Dawn will greet us as a long-begotten friend on the other side; that clinging unto the known life regardless of the cost is just unecessary postponement of the inevitable?