Discussion What’s after death?

[Sod123]

I have no reason to stay any longer, I've ruined my life with the choices I've made, my mental health has caused me to make foolish mistakes, ones that I feel I cannot fix.

I know that leaving will hurt some people, I don't want to hurt anyone by leaving, but I think I'll hurt them more by staying.

The bit that's hard to reconcile is the question of what happens after death, do our souls/ minds/ conscious live on do you think, or are we divided as per religion based on the life's we have lived/ the good and bad that we have done, or, as I hope, that we simply are dead dead, nothing more?

I know no one knows, and that religious beliefs somewhat dictate peoples thinking on the possibility of an after life or re-incarnation, some people believe in the Big Bang theory, which to me dictates that there's nothing after death but for blankness. Others believe we are all part of a big experiment like in the Matrix, or that we are all just the play thing of another life form ( I actually think this is plausible ), and others think that we moved from realm to realm.

What do you all think happens, and hope happens after death?

 

[Life_and_Death]

after death, nothing.

although i hope that i can at least watch my loved ones for a little while before i do finally rest for eternity, but i doubt it

 

[Sakura94]

I actually more worry about the part between. I have terrible nightmares so it's possible there is tens of minutes of hell as the dying brain tries to figure out what's happening to it. If there was anything more metaphysical it does not concern me because it's too removed from what I know about the current world.

 

[StuFin]

There's nothing, not blackness but nothing. The universe only exists because you can perceive it, you can only perceive it because you are conscious, and consciousness is just the chemicals and electrical signals in your brain. Once your brain is dead that's it.

IMHO.

 

[WornOutLife]

Nobody knows.
It could be eternal nothingness, a heaven, hell (worse than this one) or we're simply an alien experiment or maybe, we're in a simulation and will understand "life" once we log out.

 

[Jblack]

I think nothing. No dreams, no feeling, no being. You are just gone. The suffering has ended. I don't feel that we can really comprehend that nothingness. Our minds create all sorts of scenarios but I doubt if any of them are what really occurs. When we are gone it is like turn off the switch for the light, it is just darkness and no feeling and no awareness.

 

[Kat!]

I don't want to stop thinking, I don't want my brain to stop working. But I think that's how it is.
Once you die it's like going to sleep.

 

[yetme]

well conciousness seems to go on at least 5-6 hours after death. we know that, because we've learned how to bring people back after clinical death.

 

[laeloth]

I believe that somehow reincarnation exists. And about that we live in a matrix, do not hesitate, that already or Buddha said. To him it was Maya (or Mara). I have read quite a bit on the subject and the early Christians also believed in reincarnation. I leave you this link on documented experiences:

Case Categories - Reincarnation Research

www.reincarnationresearch.com

 

[Crumbledank]

well conciousness seems to go on at least 5-6 hours after death. we know that, because we've learned how to bring people back after clinical death.

No-one has ever been alive again after suffering cellular brain death. That's the definition of death that matters here.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

idk nobody here has died yet to tell you

 

[constant_grief]

Maybe it is just eternal oblivion, but who knows? If we can experience life and consciousness now, seemingly out of nowhere, maybe it can happen again.

The nature of life, death, and reality are complete mysteries. We have an understanding of what physically happens to our bodies when we die, but beyond that it's anyone's guess.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

There's nothing, not blackness but nothing. The universe only exists because you can perceive it, you can only perceive it because you are conscious, and consciousness is just the chemicals and electrical signals in your brain. Once your brain is dead that's it.

IMHO.

How do you think the 'nothingness' that presumably constitutes extra-conscious reality was able to get a hook into the universe and become conscious as you?
You were born through biochemical and lawlike processes, but why do you think you are experiencing things as you? Why didn't the nothingness just remain nothingness forever, or why weren't you born as another organism?

I'm not asking rhetorical questions or trying to bait you or anything, I'm just wondering what you think the sufficient reason is for you having any kind of experience at all as you, rather than an eternity of nothingness, or as another being.

Another way of putting it is that of all the conscious creatures that have ever lived in the universe (probably trillions), you experience the universe from the point of view of one of those beings x at a specific point in time (13.8 billion years after the big bang). Why that being x rather than any other at some other point in time and some other place (perhaps some other planet)? Or rather than remaining a non-entity forever in a state of non-experience?

My intuition is that there's more going on from the point of view of consciousness than the sequence: nothingness > birth > conscious experiences > death > eternal nothingness.

Just like the big bang cannot have been caused by absolute nothingness, so the consciousness which we have in the form of subjective experiences through time from the point of view of a particular entity cannot have arisen from nothing. And I know that beings which are born don't come from 'nothing', since pre-existing genetics, energy, metabolism, biology etc account for the formation of organisms through reproduction. I'm talking about the inexplicable fact that you have an awareness which is siphoned through your particular sensory apparatus and brain.

The big bang must have taken place within a much larger context, and I think that consciousness takes place within a much larger context too.
In fact, I think that the big bang and consciousness are connected in some fundamental way (spacetime begins with the big bang, spacetime begins for a particular organism when they are born), but that's just speculation.

You even said it yourself: "the universe only exists because you can perceive it, you can only perceive it because you are conscious".

 

[Gromit-CTB]

Knowing my luck someone will put £1 in the slot and game will start again.

 

[Yuki Tenuki]

No body sensation, but sensory impressions without senses. Movement, light, twilight and control over it through thought. Like a mixture of pure MDMA and ketamine, but detached from everything physical, synesthesia without being really sensual and above all the abstinence from the torments and compulsions of our psychological world. No religion, no god, but also impossible to scientifically grasp this state.

 

[Sod123]

idk nobody here has died yet to tell you

Haha thanks, I kinda get that, just interested in what people think happens!

 

[StuFin]

How do you think the 'nothingness' that presumably constitutes extra-conscious reality was able to get a hook into the universe and become conscious as you?
You were born through biochemical and lawlike processes, but why do you think you are experiencing things as you? Why didn't the nothingness just remain nothingness forever, or why weren't you born as another organism?

I'm not asking rhetorical questions or trying to bait you or anything, I'm just wondering what you think the sufficient reason is for you having any kind of experience at all as you, rather than an eternity of nothingness, or as another being.

Another way of putting it is that of all the conscious creatures that have ever lived in the universe (probably trillions), you experience the universe from the point of view of one of those beings x at a specific point in time (13.8 billion years after the big bang). Why that being x rather than any other at some other point in time and some other place (perhaps some other planet)? Or rather than remaining a non-entity forever in a state of non-experience?

My intuition is that there's more going on from the point of view of consciousness than the sequence: nothingness > birth > conscious experiences > death > eternal nothingness.

Just like the big bang cannot have been caused by absolute nothingness, so the consciousness which we have in the form of subjective experiences through time from the point of view of a particular entity cannot have arisen from nothing. And I know that beings which are born don't come from 'nothing', since pre-existing genetics, energy, metabolism, biology etc account for the formation of organisms through reproduction. I'm talking about the inexplicable fact that you have an awareness which is siphoned through your particular sensory apparatus and brain.

The big bang must have taken place within a much larger context, and I think that consciousness takes place within a much larger context too.
In fact, I think that the big bang and consciousness are connected in some fundamental way (spacetime begins with the big bang, spacetime begins for a particular organism when they are born), but that's just speculation.

You even said it yourself: "the universe only exists because you can perceive it, you can only perceive it because you are conscious".

It's a question I think we don't have the capacity to answer.

It's like imagining the universe is infinite - how can something be infinite? It may be possible, but since we live in a finite world, with finite resources and a finite lifespan, etc, it's impossible to imagine.

If the universe is not finite and you reach an end- like say a brick wall - well what's on the other side of that? Nothingness?

How can there be nothing? There must be something from our perspective, because that's all we know or can understand.

How can infinite or nothing exist?

We think of multiple universes, well we all experience the world and the universe in our own unique way, so each experience is a different universe, once you are no longer experiencing your universe, it ceases to exist.

Perhaps when there is no life left anywhere to experience anything, then the universe will cease to exist, and there will be nothing.

Even if it does exist with no life to experience it, it will simply be a load of lumps of rock drifting in nothingness with no purpose - especially when all of the stars have finally burnt out and it's just a dark cold place with no purpose.

If nothing exists to experience it, then it essentially doesn't exist.

It's like having an internet in the stone age with no computers to connect to it or people to use it, like having a paintings hung on walls in museums with no eyes to see them, or music playing with no ears to hear it - it exists but doesn't exist - because to exist it needs to be experienced.

And consciousness is required for that experience.

No consciousness, no anything.

The idea f everything coming from nothing (or rather the singularity) is similar - there was no time, no space, no dimensions, no anything, just the singularity - then it did it's big bang and everything appeared.

Well what was it, where was it, how is that possible?

Maybe we have it all wrong, but I'm sure that once you no longer are conscious to experience, nothing exists any more.

At least for you.

 

[AutoTap]

No one knows that's what makes death so scary besides the possible pain that brings death.

 

[Kruger]

I have no reason to stay any longer, I've ruined my life with the choices I've made, my mental health has caused me to make foolish mistakes, ones that I feel I cannot fix.

I know that leaving will hurt some people, I don't want to hurt anyone by leaving, but I think I'll hurt them more by staying.

The bit that's hard to reconcile is the question of what happens after death, do our souls/ minds/ conscious live on do you think, or are we divided as per religion based on the life's we have lived/ the good and bad that we have done, or, as I hope, that we simply are dead dead, nothing more?

I know no one knows, and that religious beliefs somewhat dictate peoples thinking on the possibility of an after life or re-incarnation, some people believe in the Big Bang theory, which to me dictates that there's nothing after death but for blankness. Others believe we are all part of a big experiment like in the Matrix, or that we are all just the play thing of another life form ( I actually think this is plausible ), and others think that we moved from realm to realm.

What do you all think happens, and hope happens after death?

Read Journey of Souls.

 

[Mort]

Well all run on electricity thats a from of energy. As i one told energy can not be destroyed. Onely go from one state to another. So may be a part of us still goes on who knows. We onley find out when we die .

 

[Leaving-Soon]

Well all run on electricity thats a from of energy. As i one told energy can not be destroyed. Onely go from one state to another. So may be a part of us still goes on who knows. We onley find out when we die .

Yes, but in order to keep that energy running, you need to be receiving food, sun, to sleep, etc. This is what keeps us technically alive. You stip receiving all of this when you'e dead, hwhoch means no energy anymore - no need for any metaphysical concepts.

But anyway, I just hope there's simply nothing after death - yet to find out.

 

[sanction]

I believe either nothing, or even if there was something, it isn't that special or cause for concern at all. Just think about before this current generation, how many BILLIONS of humans have previously already died, and will continue to die every single day or year as time goes on. Also think about the ENDLESS animals/ other species that also die every single minute as well, starting from the very first day life began to exist on planet earth, up till this very moment. Think of something as small as an insect that keeps dying non-stop. Even when we're walking on the streets, we will always keep stepping on insects without even knowing, killing them non-stop, every single second, all around the planet.

If humans are believe to have soul or after-life, then it only makes sense other species/ animals also have it too. We're all living creatures at the end of the day. At that point (or from this perspective), it makes it not so special at all, when theres simply soooo many. Its like if you were eating a chicken burger, that chicken who died must have some type of soul/ after-life too. No difference than the fly you just killed on your wall at home, it also must have a soul/ after-life too. But do we see their soul/ after-life as anything special? Probably not at all, we probably feel it doesn't even matter 0.0000001%. So its either we all have it, or none of us have it, which both ways make it not so special or cause for concern at all

 

[yetme]

How do you think the 'nothingness' that presumably constitutes extra-conscious reality was able to get a hook into the universe and become conscious as you?
You were born through biochemical and lawlike processes, but why do you think you are experiencing things as you? Why didn't the nothingness just remain nothingness forever, or why weren't you born as another organism?

I'm not asking rhetorical questions or trying to bait you or anything, I'm just wondering what you think the sufficient reason is for you having any kind of experience at all as you, rather than an eternity of nothingness, or as another being.

Another way of putting it is that of all the conscious creatures that have ever lived in the universe (probably trillions), you experience the universe from the point of view of one of those beings x at a specific point in time (13.8 billion years after the big bang). Why that being x rather than any other at some other point in time and some other place (perhaps some other planet)? Or rather than remaining a non-entity forever in a state of non-experience?

My intuition is that there's more going on from the point of view of consciousness than the sequence: nothingness > birth > conscious experiences > death > eternal nothingness.

Just like the big bang cannot have been caused by absolute nothingness, so the consciousness which we have in the form of subjective experiences through time from the point of view of a particular entity cannot have arisen from nothing. And I know that beings which are born don't come from 'nothing', since pre-existing genetics, energy, metabolism, biology etc account for the formation of organisms through reproduction. I'm talking about the inexplicable fact that you have an awareness which is siphoned through your particular sensory apparatus and brain.

The big bang must have taken place within a much larger context, and I think that consciousness takes place within a much larger context too.
In fact, I think that the big bang and consciousness are connected in some fundamental way (spacetime begins with the big bang, spacetime begins for a particular organism when they are born), but that's just speculation.

You even said it yourself: "the universe only exists because you can perceive it, you can only perceive it because you are conscious".

interesting point of view
what do you think of continuity of the conscious experience?

 

[esse_est_percipi]

interesting point of view
what do you think of continuity of the conscious experience?

In general I don't really know.
It's just intuition, but I think that the brief conscious experiences we have as humans are just the tip of an iceberg.
There is a kind of field of consciousness, which attains a spatiotemporal clarity and distinctness through individual biochemical organisms.
There is a synergistic relation between consciousness and the energy in spacetime.
Something like the Pribram-Bohm model of consciousness (holonomic brain theory) may not be too far off the mark.

I think there may be some unknown law which governs which beings we reincarnate as after death. Not necessarily karma.
But I think there is a generic subjective continuity, which means that death does not bring about eternal nothingness.

Tom Clark wrote a paper on the continuity of subjective experience here.

 

[C14]

Given that the universe likely is infinite (flat) and that entropy fluctionations will happen possibly forever, it appears that it is guaranteed that the comparably small amount of matter that comprises your brain will rearrange itself into conscious you. This is scares me a little. Given long enough time, events start to repeats themselves locally. Our entire solar system, as well. And because you are dead you will not be aware of time passing until you suddenly find yourself existing in this repeated "clone world".

Some arguments against this:
-The Anthropic principle: we can see that the universe is young, and if these worlds repeat themselves infinitely, there should be a near (actually zero) zero chance that this "iteration" should occur during the early stages of the universe.
- Most physicists don't think that big bangs recur in a cyclic fashion.
- You cannot perfectly clone quantum information per the no cloning theorem - although this one I am not at all sure of.

But yeah I enjoy armchair physics. Another thing would be quantum immortality, but it is just a thought experiment used to illustrate the many worlds interpretation.

 

[yetme]

In general I don't really know.
It's just intuition, but I think that the brief conscious experiences we have as humans are just the tip of an iceberg.
There is a kind of field of consciousness, which attains a spatiotemporal clarity and distinctness through individual biochemical organisms.
There is a synergistic relation between consciousness and the energy in spacetime.
Something like the Pribram-Bohm model of consciousness (holonomic brain theory) may not be too far off the mark.

Have you hear about Donald Hoffman? he is a scientist and he has an interesting theory on consciousness. Basically he thinks that consciousness is fundamental like laws of physics. I strongly recommend watching his lectures on youtube. It's mindblowing:

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Have you hear about Donald Hoffman? he is a scientist and he has an interesting theory on consciousness. Basically he thinks that consciousness is fundamental like laws of physics. I strongly recommend watching his lectures on youtube. It's mindblowing:

I will check him out.

Given that the universe likely is infinite (flat) and that entropy fluctionations will happen possibly forever, it appears that it is guaranteed that the comparably small amount of matter that comprises your brain will rearrange itself into conscious you. This is scares me a little. Given long enough time, events start to repeats themselves locally. Our entire solar system, as well. And because you are dead you will not be aware of time passing until you suddenly find yourself existing in this repeated "clone world".

I've had long discussions about the possibility of eternal recurrence on here.
It's the most terrifying idea about the 'afterlife' imo.
However, it is pretty much metaphysical speculation, as there are so many unknowns and so many assumptions that need to be made.

As well as the points you raise against it, there are difficulties relating to the notion of infinity itself (eternal recurrence would logically require the existence of actual infinities, which yields a bunch of paradoxes), and to the problem of how numerical iterations of 'identical' universes relate to the identity of subjective experience (whichever way you look at it, two identical yet numerically distinct universes are still different universes, just as a clone is different from the original it was cloned from. As such, there is no reason why another iteration of this universe should result in the same subjective experiences occurring for the same beings. Logically, the 'you' in the next hypothetically identical universe to this would be a different 'you' with a different subjective identity, even though its whole life would be identical to yours in every detail).

it appears that it is guaranteed that the comparably small amount of matter that comprises your brain will rearrange itself into conscious you

Have you heard of the Boltzman brain thought experiment?
It is more likely that a single brain, with all the experiences and memories of life in a universe, should form in the random quantum fluctuations in a thermodynamic equilibrium space, than that an actual universe arose the way physics tells us it did.

 

[laeloth]

or maybe we will meet the demiurge, who knows.

Searching for the builder of the building, I have steadily walked the circular path of many lifetimes. Now I have found you and I have penetrated your being. You will never build me a house again! Buddha

 

[sarahR]

I honestly hope there's nothing after death. That would be like an endless sleep. That's all I dream of. My friend CTB yesterday. And in a way I'm jealous cause she's at peace and I'm still here.

 

[laeloth]

I honestly hope there's nothing after death. That would be like an endless sleep. That's all I dream of. My friend CTB yesterday. And in a way I'm jealous cause she's at peace and I'm still here.

My deepest condolences. I hope you rest in peace