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J

Journeytoletgo

Broken and hated 7-14 years long overdue
May 14, 2018
1,608
That makes no sense to me
 
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rationaltake

rationaltake

I'm rocking it - in another universe
Sep 28, 2021
2,707
I agree. It's not logical to compare the two states.
 
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°Celsuis_Caesar

°Celsuis_Caesar

Sanctioned Suicide is well worth a mass
Jan 10, 2022
187
That's a interesting thought
 
sunny/omori

sunny/omori

necessary? unnecessary?
Apr 3, 2022
99
Whatever you define death, either you are alive or not. Yo wasnt alive before the day you were born (or before a year) and you wont be alive the next day you die. As life has and starting point, it has an ending point. So yeah, you were death before and surely you will be death again. That mystical multiverse nonsense doesnt matter, even if i have to repeat my life forever better to ctb each time.
 
VoidDesirer22

VoidDesirer22

A dream inside a locked room
Sep 6, 2021
673
Why not? Emotional attachment to life?

The before death and after death are identical, it's just that we are more calm about creating life than it ending.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,913
It's a similar state, almost identical but with the persistent data of your experience stored somewhere (karma/soul/etc). This is what I believe without any proof whatsoever, lol.
 
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VoidDesirer22

VoidDesirer22

A dream inside a locked room
Sep 6, 2021
673
I agree. It's not logical to compare the two states.
How is not the most logical assessment there is?

I get that all of it is faith as we can never be certain, but with all available information, memory is only possible with a brain. We didn't have a brain prior to birth, so we had no senses of anything whatsoever. After death, also no brain, so the most logical explanation is the same thing: no memory or sensation.
It's a similar state, almost identical but with the persistent data of your experience stored somewhere (karma/soul/etc). This is what I believe without any proof whatsoever, lol.
What stores the data? How can souls exist when if a brain is damaged it changes the person completely. At which stage in life is the soul a representation of our true selves. Is it a name for life essence? But if so, it dies when our brain dies. Since our brain is the source of all our conscious experience and pain.
 
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S

shrek34

Student
Sep 14, 2021
121
Before we were born, our consciousness did not exist but what makes us up did. An amount of time will pass, eventually everything will align once again, and we will exist again.
 
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VoidDesirer22

VoidDesirer22

A dream inside a locked room
Sep 6, 2021
673
Before we were born, our consciousness did not exist but what makes us up did. An amount of time will pass, eventually everything will align once again, and we will exist again.
Omg if eternal reoccurrence does exist, I at least hope I am totally unaware of it like my current form.
 
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J

Journeytoletgo

Broken and hated 7-14 years long overdue
May 14, 2018
1,608
Before we were born, our consciousness did not exist but what makes us up did. An amount of time will pass, eventually everything will align once again, and we will exist again.
I have to agree I think things reoccur over and over again which is horrible

Oh well may the force be with us
 
rationaltake

rationaltake

I'm rocking it - in another universe
Sep 28, 2021
2,707
Why not? Emotional attachment to life?

The before death and after death are identical, it's just that we are more calm about creating life than it ending.
Good point.
 
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WorthlessTrash

WorthlessTrash

Worthless
Apr 19, 2022
2,430
But then the one following could be even worse. Pay attention to the "over and over" aspect.
Eh that is uncertain. The only certainty is what is going on now. I view it as starting a new game of cards and drawing a fresh hand.

I personally try not to dwell on the possibility of reoccurrence, because the present is what is certain to me.
 
VoidDesirer22

VoidDesirer22

A dream inside a locked room
Sep 6, 2021
673
Eh that is uncertain. The only certainty is what is going on now. I view it as starting a new game of cards and drawing a fresh hand.

I personally try not to dwell on the possibility of reoccurrence, because the present is what is certain to me.
I know it is uncertain, but you brought up specifically if the next life was better. So I was just pointing out how it is weird to find that comforting, because it implies there will be inifinite more lives potentially, with potential chance for suffering.

Of course the present has certainity. But the point of this thread is to collectively ponder the uncertainty and what some likely outcomes are.
 
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WorthlessTrash

WorthlessTrash

Worthless
Apr 19, 2022
2,430
I know it is uncertain, but you brought up specifically if the next life was better. So I was just pointing out how it is weird to find that comforting, because it implies there will be inifinite more lives potentially, with potential chance for suffering.

Of course the present has certainity. But the point of this thread is to collectively ponder the uncertainty and what some likely outcomes are.
I mean reoccurrence would suck, but at least then you have another shot at making it work, even if you don't have any knowledge of your previous life.

I just find it comforting because at least there might be a chance things will be better in the next life time. If they aren't, then that definitely fucking sucks, but you never know.
 
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rationaltake

rationaltake

I'm rocking it - in another universe
Sep 28, 2021
2,707
How is not the most logical assessment there is?

I get that all of it is faith as we can never be certain, but with all available information, memory is only possible with a brain. We didn't have a brain prior to birth, so we had no senses of anything whatsoever. After death, also no brain, so the most logical explanation is the same thing: no memory or sensation.
What you say makes sense. I understand.

But purely from our current perspective as a living being we cannot equate the world as it was before we were in existence with the world as it will be after we have existed.

It depends if we are looking at things from the perspective of the world in general or from the perspective of a single individual.

I think I want to say that life intervenes so we are not comparing like with like.
 
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M

MicropBaldCurrycel

Specialist
Dec 29, 2021
314
When people speak about this they mean how death would feel like , it would feel like before you were born... you didn't know you were destined to be born , it was just non existence for you and so after you are dead from your perspective you wont know you were born or died.

just because you lived for a few decades doesn't change that perspective of non existence.
 
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J

Journeytoletgo

Broken and hated 7-14 years long overdue
May 14, 2018
1,608
When people speak about this they mean how death would feel like , it would feel like before you were born... you didn't know you were born and after you are dead from your perspective you wont know you were born or died.

just because you lived for a few decades doesn't change that perspective of non existence.
Okay however that doesn't mean things can't happen again. As we all morph into being again and again
 
M

MicropBaldCurrycel

Specialist
Dec 29, 2021
314
Okay however that doesn't mean things can't happen again
this is a logical fallacy. i dont agree looking at this from a logic and scientific perspective, its only human nature to hope for more but life is just a happy accident with a few decades and its back to oblivion.

All these are just hopes. wishes and fairytales.

All these lifetimes and decades upon generations theres never been proof of anything more.

if you think about how life and biology works youd come to the conclusion reincarnation and afterlife/god is a defy the laws of nature of physics impossibility.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,913
What stores the data? How can souls exist when if a brain is damaged it changes the person completely. At which stage in life is the soul a representation of our true selves. Is it a name for life essence? But if so, it dies when our brain dies. Since our brain is the source of all our conscious experience and pain.
We would need to confirm if a person really changes completely upon injury etc. There are striking changes, perhaps complete changes but there might be something subtle that stays between one state and the other. It's a fascinating experiment.

I agree that the brain determines consciousness and it's where memory and identity are stored. When we fall asleep there is a lapse in experience, same with head injury, etc. Without brain the person will disappear, it seems logical.

But I start from the (to me) truism that life comes from an impulse that existed before it and continues after and that reality isn't random but has a purpose.

From there, I make the leap of assuming that since life seems to be something temporary that something else that is permanent is manifesting, it makes sense that the experience is stored in the permanent part. The idea of Karma is similar to this.

Perhaps we can envision Nirvana as being able to erase all the junk in your Operating System and each life as a session between turning on and off the computer, in which new folders are created with unresolved strong feelings and memories.

There's a fair amount of cope in what I believe haha but I genuinely have experienced paranormal experiences in real time, I was on the path of materialistic nihilism for sure before that. So even if my ramblings are amiss I know reality is bigger than anything humans are able to rationalize.
 
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motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,081
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean

Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box
Religion is the smile on a dog
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean

Choke me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep

 
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VoidDesirer22

VoidDesirer22

A dream inside a locked room
Sep 6, 2021
673
But purely from our current perspective as a living being we cannot equate the world as it was before we were in existence with the world as it will be after we have existed.
I respect all interpretations of afterlife (except those who believe in hell), but they all rely completely on faith.

The interpretation of absolutely no sensation without our specific brain draws from actual knowledge that when under general anesthesia we are targeting the brain, among the fact that we can alter our entire experience from our brain.

I respect your interpretation, as I understand mine still contains faith (in "the void," hence my username lol) but all I can really reply to your comment is "why not?". "Why must it be different?"
Maybe it just feels like life was so absurd and unlikely that it has to shift things. But I don't see it that way. I just view life as a tragic accident.
But clearly it is fucking bizarre that it is possible that we are here. Not beautiful to me, but frightening.
We would need to confirm if a person really changes completely upon injury etc. There are striking changes, perhaps complete changes but there might be something subtle that stays between one state and the other. It's a fascinating experiment.

I agree that the brain determines consciousness and it's where memory and identity are stored. When we fall asleep there is a lapse in experience, same with head injury, etc. Without brain the person will disappear, it seems logical.

But I start from the (to me) truism that life comes from an impulse that existed before it and continues after and that reality isn't random but has a purpose.

From there, I make the leap of assuming that since life seems to be something temporary that something else than is permanent is manifesting, it makes sense that the experience is stored in the permanent part. The idea of Karma is similar to this.

Perhaps we can envision Nirvana as being able to erase all the junk in your Operating System and each life as a session between turning on and off the computer, in which new folders are created with unresolved strong feelings and memories.
If there really is some mysterious energy being transferred it is quite cruel :( why do we have this format of birth and death, whereby birth seems to spawn us from nothing.

Your thoughts here are interesting nonetheless.
 
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S

Someone123

Illuminated
Oct 19, 2021
3,875
It can make sense if our soul was alive before this body we are in now was born. It may be that our soul has been alive a lot longer than this body we are in now and it may stay alive a lot longer after this body dies- possibly our souls will have eternal life. Sometimes eternal life seems terrifying but I think that not havig eternal life is much more terrifying. The idea of not existing is so completely terrifying to me that I try to not think about it too much.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,913
It can make sense if our soul was alive before this body we are in now was born. It may be that our soul has been alive a lot longer than this body we are in now and it may stay alive a lot longer after this body dies- possibly our souls will have eternal life. Sometimes eternal life seems terrifying but I think that not havig eternal life is much more terrifying. The idea of not existing is so completely terrifying to me that I try to not think about it too much.
What? The efilists won't like what you said! You fear non-existence? What are you, a pro-lifer? Haha.
 
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J

Journeytoletgo

Broken and hated 7-14 years long overdue
May 14, 2018
1,608
this is a logical fallacy. i dont agree looking at this from a logic and scientific perspective, its only human nature to hope for more but life is just a happy accident with a few decades and its back to oblivion.

All these are just hopes. wishes and fairytales.

All these lifetimes and decades upon generations theres never been proof of anything more.

if you think about how life and biology works youd come to the conclusion reincarnation and afterlife/god is a defy the laws of nature of physics impossibility.
I agree I wish someone told me this in my teens would have saved me pain and torture

It's just my human emotions wishing for another shot with this shit deck oh well I was destined to lose due to my skin disease
 

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