I was going to post this in respons to a relatively new member's inquiry about how pro choice and pro life relate to each-other and the consequences thereof. More precisely the question was why a pro choice stance would exclude pro life views/expressions thereof. Alas that thread was shut down but since it's an interesting topic and I might be able to clarify some things I decided to dedicate a thread to it. There seemed to be quite a lot of confusion about the subject.
Clearly this person was under the impression that 'pro life' simply means' choosing life'. While it's understandable why one might think that I think in the context of this forum/the opposition to it and the discussion/ideological stances about suicide and its permissibility the meaning is quite different. Hence the analysis below.
Pro life = anti choice/personal autonomy and thus anti suicide. 'Pro life' is a misnomer that is used incorrectly by those who identify as such (moral crusaders who think they are somehow morally superior/know better and 'protect' life because they oppose the notion that every individual is the master of their own life and body and can autonomously choose to destroy it) and apparantly even here.
Another term for 'pro life' is paternalism: stern limitations placed on individuals (limiting or even totally negating their freedom), supposedly for their own good. From the Latin 'pater', father as the pater familias was the head of the household in Roman times and he pretty much had total control over his family members even his adult children. Up to and including selling them into slavery or putting them to death.
When people claim they are 'pro life' what they really mean is that they are against others' choices to opt for abortion or suicide. Especially in the case of suicidality this usually translates into strong support for the use of violence for 'prevention' purposes. They do not believe anyone has the right to kill themselves, usually because they believe in some imaginery deity who supposedly forbade it. Obviously such a stance is diametrically opposed to the pro choice policy on this forum and thus any assertions of that nature are against the rules.
Shoving one's own anti suicide beliefs in the face of the people who are suicidal (i.e. who are entertaining the option of suicide for themselves) amounts to trolling which is against the rules:
"Do not troll or proselytize, meaning do not impose your views - no matter what they are ..."
Preaching against suicide on a forum such as this is tantamount to posting on a LGTB-forum that homo/bisexuality and the like is a grave sin, unnatural, those who profess to it will burn in hell etcetera.
That being said there's obviously nothing wrong with wanting to stay alive/choosing not to commit suicide as this is a choice (to be) made by the individual and as such it's completely congruent and in line with the concept of pro choice: free to choose death, free to choose life. The individual decides for her or himself, no-one else.
'Pro life' is a nonsensical, euphemistic slogan originating with christian fanatics attempting to mask their true intent: gaining control over others' lives and the advancement of collectivism/dictatorship/authoritarianism, either religious or secular. It has nothing to do with pro choice (in essence liberalism/libertarianism) which obviously includes supporting those who opt for life. Which is an entirely valid choice obviously: anyone who disagrees with that (with regard to others of course) is pro suicide and does not belong on this forum anymore than those who are pro life/anti suicide/ anti autonomy/anti freedom. Personally I'm glad if people opt for life but the choice is theirs and I respect their autonomy. I couldn't be a member of this forum if I thought otherwise.
Pro choice does not imply that we should let anti choice trolls run free and ruin this forum as a haven of free discussion of suicide (including alternatives to it) as both concepts are antithetical and mutually exclusive. A person who is pro choice can't logically be anti choice and vice versa.
Clearly this person was under the impression that 'pro life' simply means' choosing life'. While it's understandable why one might think that I think in the context of this forum/the opposition to it and the discussion/ideological stances about suicide and its permissibility the meaning is quite different. Hence the analysis below.
Pro life = anti choice/personal autonomy and thus anti suicide. 'Pro life' is a misnomer that is used incorrectly by those who identify as such (moral crusaders who think they are somehow morally superior/know better and 'protect' life because they oppose the notion that every individual is the master of their own life and body and can autonomously choose to destroy it) and apparantly even here.
Another term for 'pro life' is paternalism: stern limitations placed on individuals (limiting or even totally negating their freedom), supposedly for their own good. From the Latin 'pater', father as the pater familias was the head of the household in Roman times and he pretty much had total control over his family members even his adult children. Up to and including selling them into slavery or putting them to death.
When people claim they are 'pro life' what they really mean is that they are against others' choices to opt for abortion or suicide. Especially in the case of suicidality this usually translates into strong support for the use of violence for 'prevention' purposes. They do not believe anyone has the right to kill themselves, usually because they believe in some imaginery deity who supposedly forbade it. Obviously such a stance is diametrically opposed to the pro choice policy on this forum and thus any assertions of that nature are against the rules.
Shoving one's own anti suicide beliefs in the face of the people who are suicidal (i.e. who are entertaining the option of suicide for themselves) amounts to trolling which is against the rules:
"Do not troll or proselytize, meaning do not impose your views - no matter what they are ..."
Preaching against suicide on a forum such as this is tantamount to posting on a LGTB-forum that homo/bisexuality and the like is a grave sin, unnatural, those who profess to it will burn in hell etcetera.
That being said there's obviously nothing wrong with wanting to stay alive/choosing not to commit suicide as this is a choice (to be) made by the individual and as such it's completely congruent and in line with the concept of pro choice: free to choose death, free to choose life. The individual decides for her or himself, no-one else.
'Pro life' is a nonsensical, euphemistic slogan originating with christian fanatics attempting to mask their true intent: gaining control over others' lives and the advancement of collectivism/dictatorship/authoritarianism, either religious or secular. It has nothing to do with pro choice (in essence liberalism/libertarianism) which obviously includes supporting those who opt for life. Which is an entirely valid choice obviously: anyone who disagrees with that (with regard to others of course) is pro suicide and does not belong on this forum anymore than those who are pro life/anti suicide/ anti autonomy/anti freedom. Personally I'm glad if people opt for life but the choice is theirs and I respect their autonomy. I couldn't be a member of this forum if I thought otherwise.
Pro choice does not imply that we should let anti choice trolls run free and ruin this forum as a haven of free discussion of suicide (including alternatives to it) as both concepts are antithetical and mutually exclusive. A person who is pro choice can't logically be anti choice and vice versa.
