Discussion What is the point of this madness?

[Deleted member 847]

Why do people still have kids, even though they know they're going to
grow old and die? Maybe even end up on this site and kill themselves?
Why would anyone create a being that can die in the first place? Can you still claim to have a heart after doing such a thing?
Can someone still decide to reproduce while having sincere knowledge of the implications
of what they're about to do? Create a new consciousness that will suffer, be bored, be inserted into the economy, grow old and die.
Consciousness has infinite potential, and you're forcing it to live in a limited mortal body, that has a limited slow human brain, in a limited
technological and social context.
God how pissed I would've been If I was born 300 years ago, they didn't even have electricity back then.
Well, someone was. A consciousness had to live that fucking boredom. That consciousness was just a "me" with different memories, in a different brain.

If they could actually vividly visualize, live every single painful and melancholic experience
their future kid will have to live, and his death too (Every baby that doesn't die before their 50s turns into a grandpa with alzheimer's, cancer or heart disease eventually), would they still do it?

If I fully understood that I'm just a dying cockroach, and that life is a meaningless journey that goes in circles since its inception, that the universe
is literally just balls of fire banging into each other, fighting and sex is everything life has ever done, is doing, and will ever do, would I still be laying eggs?
Why can't they understand that there is no future? Haven't they watched enough movies to see that
there's only so many stories you can tell? Hero is presented, problem appears, hero solves the problem, repeat.

What future could there even be to "life and existence"? Being a sci-fi disembodied brain in a jar on Dopamine 24/7 In the galactic empire? You call that the promised land? Yikes.

The only real promised land is nonexistence.
Only in nonexistence consciousness can truly rest.

70+ million years ago there were animals on this planet, and they were doing the same monotonous bullshit you're doing today (Eating, sleeping, fucking, fighting, solving
problems that disrupt inner peace, finding a house to live in)
Guess how life is gonna be the next 70 million years? Pretty much the same.
Survive and reproduce. Fuck, eat and fight/run.
It can't ever become something else. It's just a xerox machine that's scared of entropy and predators.
There's no virtue in being alive.
If you're typing on a keyboard right now, it means one or more of your ancestors did some "violence" or "running" to be able to
pass their genes to future generations.
This is every movie you've ever watched, and every life that has ever lived:
Point A ----------> B

64 million years ago, life was still the same boring and painful horseshit that it is today, except
with dinosaurs

 

[Darkover]

you can't be caring and loving being when you bring a child into such a hellhole has this if you really cared for life you wouldn't bring it alive to face it's certain demise
the animal kingdom doesn't care for its offspring like it should no rational being would bring a child into this cruel world where just about anything can go wrong with their life and will at some point, if you really cared for life you wouldent bring it alive into such a hellhole.

 

[Deleted member 847]

you can't be caring and loving being when you bring a child into such a hellhole has this if you really cared for life you wouldn't bring it alive to face it's certain demise
the animal kingdom doesn't care for its offspring like it should no rational being would bring a child into this cruel world where just about anything can go wrong with their life and will at some point, if you really cared for life you wouldent bring it alive into such a hellhole.

I think if they could live the life of the child before making them, only
psychopaths would still decide to have the baby

Human beings lack empathy when it's not a "direct thing" (I really need to learn some more English damn it)

Ex: If I see someone burned alive in front of me, I'll start crying
If you just tell me that someone will be burned alive 50 years after my death
if I fail to press a button properly or something, I might not take you seriously and not even press it or do a sloppy job at it, because I can't visualize the pain of the victim, so I don't actually understand the weight of my action in a true subconscious sense.
If it's not in front of my eyes. it doesn't bother me.

I mean let's say you make the baby, and the next day the baby turns into an 80 year old with Alzheimer's disease,
then you have a button that will "undo your choice"
I think you will press it, I think anyone that's not a psycho will press the button

 

[FuneralCry]

To me life is just unnecessary suffering and should not be a thing in the first place. There could never be a point to living, humans just exist for the sake of existing. I do not understand how anyone could see it as a positive thing to bring someone into this world, as after all there is no limit as to how much pain humans can experience. Things can get so much worse for anyone and life is objectively so horrifying. I see no point to suffering until old age just to die anyway. Existing really is torture and I envy those who are gone from this world.

 

[Deleted member 847]

To me life is just unnecessary suffering and should not be a thing in the first place. There could never be a point to living, humans just exist for the sake of existing. I do not understand how anyone could see it as a positive thing to bring someone into this world, as after all there is no limit as to how much pain humans can experience. Things can get so much worse for anyone and life is objectively so horrifying. I see no point to suffering until old age just to die anyway. Existing really is torture and I envy those who are gone from this world.

Humans exist because they're wired to survive, like cockroaches and mices, or the plastic dinosaurs in the movie above. We're scared of death, so we avoid it like the plague and demonize it in our culture. Most of our culture is based upon "love, finding a partner, becoming a real man, a real woman" (that's basically 90% of all novels and movies) that's because we subconsciously realize as animals we're only going to be satisfied if we follow our primitive urges. The most powerful after survival being the need to find a mate. Men that don't get women are called losers, incels etc. even when they have money, people still assume they're unhappy losers just because they don't fuck or have intimacy. I swear to god they have to put a love story in every single movie, show or anime that I watch for no reason. It's as if they're telling us that happiness can only be done that way.
We're addicted to the reward mechanisms of the brain, while at the same time we're also aware that we're just running in circles and this journey has no destination, no promised land.

Happiness is a lie.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I have to admit, I see some appeal to creating a family. But it isn't happening...I don't even like children either. I wouldn't have children unless I were incredibly wealthy. I think it's cruel to bring children into circumstances where there is any amount of struggle. I definitely sympathise with antinatalist ideas, despite also liking the idea of a family.

One thing I definitely wouldn't do is shame or gaslight my child if they expressed any desire to die.

 

[Euthanza]

Cynically, "to make someone else richer" while breeding because it's essential to the economy

 

[Deleted member 847]

Cynically, "to make someone else richer" while breeding because it's essential to the economy

There's no fucking way anyone thinks that while having kids
The reason has to be self-centered

Families don't "care" about society and its economy,
there always some one else that can make kids to sustain it, why would you think it's your job?
they pay their taxes and obey the law and culture to benefit from living on a piece of land where they can trade goods with other
human beings, that's the "relationship" my family has with society

 

[Lost in a Dream]

64 million years ago, life was still the same boring and painful horseshit that it is today, except
with dinosaurs

I agree with everything you said, but I kind of wish I had a tail with a giant club on the end like the ankylosaur. Then I could use it to whack the pro-lifasourus Rex when it comes crashing through the trees into SS. I could tell it off and BAM! Smack them in the jaw with my tail!

 

[Deleted member 847]

I agree with everything you said, but I kind of wish I had a tail with a giant club on the end like the ankylosaur. Then I could use it to whack the pro-lifasourus Rex when it comes crashing through the trees into SS. I could tell it off and BAM! Smack them in the jaw with my tail!

Haha. It's amazing how immersive a bunch of plastic toys/puppets can be, if used by the right people with the right editing, story telling skills and vision.
I think I've watched at least 10-20 dinosaur documentaries made with actual CGI, and I still think this old short "documentary" beats at least half of them in terms of entertainment and immersivity. It appears this documentary was done long before the finding of evidence of the asteroid that got the dinosaurs extinct, so they might have gotten some other things wrong in it too

 

[Lost in a Dream]

Haha. It's amazing how immersive a bunch of plastic toys/puppets can be, if used by the right people with the right editing, story telling skills and vision.
I think I've watched at least 10-20 dinosaur documentaries made with actual CGI, and I still think this old short "documentary" beats at least half of them in terms of entertainment and immersivity. It appears this documentary was done long before the finding of evidence of the asteroid that got the dinosaurs extinct, so they might have gotten some other things wrong in it too

I was obsessed with dinosaurs when I was a kid. I had this huge box full of them when I was little and played with them often enough that I could've made my own documentary with them if I'd thought of it. Now, whenever I think about dinosaurs, it makes me wonder, "Where's our asteroid? I want to go extinct too... "

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Many people succeed in raising happy healthy human beings. It does require tremendous love and work and financial resources. Those incapable of providing those probably should not have kids.

 

[Deleted member 847]

Many people succeed in raising happy healthy human beings. It does require tremendous love and work and financial resources. Those incapable of providing those probably should not have kids.

Those happy kids still become old, crippled and have to die.
If you think that forcing a human being to shit himself in a disabled rotting body and
face eternal nonexistence is acceptable if it satisfies your need to "accomplish something"
or be loved/have a friend that will never betray you,
then we have a disagreement

This is your happy kid on his her death bed

 

[Alex6216]

Haha. It's amazing how immersive a bunch of plastic toys/puppets can be, if used by the right people with the right editing, story telling skills and vision.
I think I've watched at least 10-20 dinosaur documentaries made with actual CGI, and I still think this old short "documentary" beats at least half of them in terms of entertainment and immersivity. It appears this documentary was done long before the finding of evidence of the asteroid that got the dinosaurs extinct, so they might have gotten some other things wrong in it too

Too bad it's 41 years old so quite a few stuff in that video is entirely wrong, for example the lack of feathers on any of the 2 legged dinosaurs or how it says mammals only relied on insects and were small when some mammals were dog-sized and ate other animals + eggs. Also it does anthropomorphise the animals quite a bit which I dislike since animals aren't going to think like a human at all, they're very simple organisms.

Those happy kids still become old, crippled and have to die.
If you think that forcing a human being to shit himself in a disabled rotting body and
face eternal nonexistence is acceptable if it satisfies your need to "accomplish something"
or be loved/have a friend that will never betray you,
then we have a disagreement

This is your happy kid on his her death bed
View attachment 94509

A person with a good diet and active life-style wont have much problems when they're old. Dementia and the inability to walk well is mostly due to our inactive, processed food lifestyles, sure some might still have those problems but it wouldnt be as common as it is now

 

[Deleted member 847]

Too bad it's 41 years old so quite a few stuff in that video is entirely wrong, for example the lack of feathers on any of the 2 legged dinosaurs. Also it does anthropomorphise the animals quite a bit which I dislike since animals aren't going to think like a human at all, they're very simple organisms.

Weren't they just looking for food, fighting and running from each other, or did we watch different videos?
It was made for elementary school kids probably, so they had to "romanticize" it, make it more like a cartoon/fairy tale to not bore them.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Those happy kids still become old, crippled and have to die.
If you think that forcing a human being to shit himself in a disabled rotting body and
face eternal nonexistence is acceptable if it satisfies your need to "accomplish something"
or be loved/have a friend that will never betray you,
then we have a disagreement

This is your happy kid on his her death bed
View attachment 94509

Just because people eventually become old and die does not mean they should not have been born in the first place. My father was fortunate enough to die in his sleep without any serious illness. Many people live fulfilling lives and do not regret having been born even if old age is challenging.

 

[Alex6216]

Weren't they just looking for food, fighting and running from each other, or did we watch different videos?
It was made for elementary school kids probably, so they had to "romanticize" it, make it more like a cartoon/fairy tale to not bore them.

Yea they just ate and slept with each other but in the video it shows the duck-billed dinosaurs 'communicating' with vocal noises prior to mating when in reality all animals use body-language to 'speak' to each other and their voices were only there to attract a mate far from them or to scare others of their kind or other predators, the only animals that might have vocal communication are dolphins, whales and great apes. The mammals body-language is also human-like in my opinion, at the beginning the mammal looked at the 2 metre tall green dinosaur before 'hiding' from it when in reality small mammals aren't that intelligent, they would mind their business and then run as soon as they hear a noise like when you scare a cat, it doesnt look at you and make a calculated decision instead it just runs off. I guess the word romanticise would be more appropriate though.

 

[Deleted member 847]

Just because people eventually become old and die does not mean they should not have been born in the first place. My father was fortunate enough to die in his sleep without any serious illness. Many people live fulfilling lives and do not regret having been born even if old age is challenging.

If most human beings reproduce, mathematics says a shit load of people will be tortured
for another group of people to have their "happy life"

If we all just go extinct, nobody gets tortured
and nobody misses the "happy life", because to need one you must be alive in the first place

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

If most human beings reproduce, mathematics says a shit load of people will be tortured
for another group of people to have their "happy life"

If we all just go extinct, nobody gets tortured
and nobody misses the "happy life", because to need one you must be alive in the first place

Seems like most people would prefer to be alive rather than go extinct. I don't think people being tortured is a necessity. Some people take a few wrong turns and end up in torturous situations myself included… But I would not speak for the desires of others who seem to want to live…

 

[Deleted member 847]

Seems like most people would prefer to be alive rather than go extinct. I don't think people being tortured is a necessity. Some people take a few wrong turns and end up in torturous situations myself included… But I would not speak for the desires of others who seem to want to live…

People can misjudge their own lives. I do it all the time. I have a good day and I forget about the other weeks of melancholy , and even the days in which I was vomiting every hour and pissing and shitting myself. Or the days when I had both of my hands burned on a barbecue grill. Or the day when my sister died. I think most people lack true introspection and are rather biased when they evaluate the worth of their existence, but obviously if you morons want to relive the hamlet, romeo and juliet and all the other shakespearean works for eternity
(remember life is just point a from point b, the hero's journey, it doesn't matter if you're an ant, a human being, or a type 3 civilization in the Kardashev Scale, at the end of the day the only thing that you can do is feed on energy to stay alive for no reason other than staying alive) who am I to judge. I am just a selfish asshole at the end of the day, and as long as I won't have to play romeo and juliet the next time, it's none of my concern that some other unfortunate soul will still have to play it

 

[Deleted member 847]

Skip to minute 2:34 to see why we live in a chaotic universe, with life that was created by blind evolution, not
by an intelligent designer or God/benevolent creative force watching over its creations

Nature is indifferent to any one's pain. You won the lottery, that's why you're not the zebra in the video.



If I was an intelligent fucking designer I would've made lions that feed on sunlight
or at least zebras that faint at the first bite from a lion.

Why would you bring a child into this world of
pray and predators (Roles that human beings just love to play,
think of all the rape that happened in ww2. People with strong bodies, men, exploiting people with weaker bodies, women.
The equivalent of the strong lion eating the powerless zebra that can only run to protect itself. I mean
I can give some other analogies, such as people in the past, even children, being worked to death by capitalists, not
that today is so much better, slavery and being a thief/predator-parasite has always been a thing, and it won't ever go away because
that's how brains work, we're designed to be takers. Only people that don't have the option to take don't take, and every one else that does have
the option to take will eventually take, to satisfy their selfish urges.
Every single serial killer, rapists, exploiter was once a 7-10 year old child that couldn't hurt a fly, then he grew and
he got taller, stronger, smarter, grew a beard, and all of that previous innocence went to hell, his identity went
from angel to monster in a little bit more than a decade)

Literally every single country or group of people that exists on this planet has to have an army or at least receive protection
from the army of some other country just to be allowed to exist. Life is dangerous.
It's jurassic park, and the dinosaurs are wearing suits.
"We're not dinosaurs anymore, we've got suits,computers and laws, we're civilized beings!"
Yeah, sure, I'm totally buying that. Except all it takes for the laws and suits to go away
is one year without electricity, and then we're back at beheading people for speaking against the king and
owning slaves from conquered tribes.

"Hey these (insert nationality) people peacefully living life and minding their business over there have
decided to not develop strong defense mechanisms to protect their land, and because we are morally good and we
care about not hurting precious feelings we're not going to exploit their weakness for a personal gain"
Said no one ever. Human history is filled with rape and pillage.

If they have something we need and they can't fight back, we'll just take it.
That's what everyone thinks.

Consciousness is evil, it must be terminated

 

[Euthanza]

I like the honesty in this conversation.

To live in a world without proper euthanasia is slavery without the most essential freedom.

 

[ForeverBlue]

I would like to put it into as many words as the original poster but I agree completely.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

Haha yeh I agree, I hate breeders with a passion, there I said it-I don't wish them any harm but will never understand them or accept their choice to inflict life on their innocent kids. They can go through life childfree it's not that hard. They have no guilt either, they don't realise whatever horror their kids face in life is a direct result of their actions, selfish twats.

I was born to old parents, the bad luck I had in being born is immense-it took them 6 months each time to conceive my siblings, and just one "oops" with me. And I found out the only reason it even happened was cos the skiing was off (they were on holiday) so they toured a wine place instead and got pissed up and then when they got back to the hotel couldn't control themselves/use anything (at their age yuck!). I can't believe how I almost dodged life, it's so depressing. Sorry TMI.

 

[Deleted member 847]

Last night I had a
stomach ache
I could only watch myself feel that "negative force" and trash around the bed trying to sleep anyway
I hated every single fucking minute until I eventually lost consciousness. My body completely raped my mind. It overpowered it.

I mean we're completely powerless in this world. It's always matter over mind, and never the opposite
If some crazy tomorrow decides to stab me to death I'll just have to be raped by shocking brute physical pain
and then cease to exist.
Where is god in all of this

 

[Hopeless_brat]

Why do people still have kids, even though they know they're going to
grow old and die? Maybe even end up on this site and kill themselves?
Why would anyone create a being that can die in the first place? Can you still claim to have a heart after doing such a thing?
Can someone still decide to reproduce while having sincere knowledge of the implications
of what they're about to do? Create a new consciousness that will suffer, be bored, be inserted into the economy, grow old and die.
Consciousness has infinite potential, and you're forcing it to live in a limited mortal body, that has a limited slow human brain, in a limited
technological and social context.
God how pissed I would've been If I was born 300 years ago, they didn't even have electricity back then.
Well, someone was. A consciousness had to live that fucking boredom. That consciousness was just a "me" with different memories, in a different brain.

If they could actually vividly visualize, live every single painful and melancholic experience
their future kid will have to live, and his death too (Every baby that doesn't die before their 50s turns into a grandpa with alzheimer's, cancer or heart disease eventually), would they still do it?

If I fully understood that I'm just a dying cockroach, and that life is a meaningless journey that goes in circles since its inception, that the universe
is literally just balls of fire banging into each other, fighting and sex is everything life has ever done, is doing, and will ever do, would I still be laying eggs?
Why can't they understand that there is no future? Haven't they watched enough movies to see that
there's only so many stories you can tell? Hero is presented, problem appears, hero solves the problem, repeat.

What future could there even be to "life and existence"? Being a sci-fi disembodied brain in a jar on Dopamine 24/7 In the galactic empire? You call that the promised land? Yikes.

The only real promised land is nonexistence.
Only in nonexistence consciousness can truly rest.

70+ million years ago there were animals on this planet, and they were doing the same monotonous bullshit you're doing today (Eating, sleeping, fucking, fighting, solving
problems that disrupt inner peace, finding a house to live in)
Guess how life is gonna be the next 70 million years? Pretty much the same.
Survive and reproduce. Fuck, eat and fight/run.
It can't ever become something else. It's just a xerox machine that's scared of entropy and predators.
There's no virtue in being alive.
If you're typing on a keyboard right now, it means one or more of your ancestors did some "violence" or "running" to be able to
pass their genes to future generations.
This is every movie you've ever watched, and every life that has ever lived:
Point A ----------> B
View attachment 94508
64 million years ago, life was still the same boring and painful horseshit that it is today, except
with dinosaurs

That consciousness was just a "me" with different memories, in a different brain. You just articulated my feelings.

 

[Deleted member 847]

That consciousness was just a "me" with different memories, in a different brain. You just articulated my feelings.

Yes. The zebra in the video is also you.

The only reason why both you and I can have the same thoughts, and communicate them to each other via written language or articulated sounds

Is because our brains are mostly identical. They're biologically copies of each other
Of course we're going to relate.

most of our differences are trivial
your IQ is 120 and mine is 100
you have black hair and my hair is blonde
you like vanilla, I like chocolate
we're 90% copy pasted

When you wake up in the morning you feel conscious, pleased or irritated, maybe bored and melancholic most of the day
and so do I
and so did that zebra that was screaming and begging for its life
it just wanted to be allowed to live and be comfortable

When I watched the video I literally saw myself in the zebra,
I couldn't help but feel outraged
How could my feelings, which are so important to me, be of no value
to this hostile universe that created animals that will steal energy from bodies that aren't theirs,
even if they have to torture their target (lions obviously don't know that they're causing pain,
but just because they're stupid that doesn't mean they're not cruel)

You would have screamed the same "umms" and "ouch" that the zebra screamed
if you were the one eaten by lions

 

[Deleted member 847]

From dumb dinosaurs to language and art capable human beings to the most intelligent civilization in the universe,
all there is to do in this pathetic existence is to be a dopamine seeking replicator.
All goals are pointless and derived from our innate need to seek comfort.
If we created a consciousness billions of times smarter than us,
the ultimate being, all he would do would be moving in circles for eternity,
trying to relentlessly avoid death by sucking all the solar energy that there is in the universe dry and replicating himself.
Even god would just be a parasite, because that's all life can be, in any form, with any level of intelligence.
He wouldn't be any different from a dinosaur that has
to eat his daily quota of leaves to maintain his body. and what motivates him to eat these leaves in the first place is the hunger the causes him pain.
What motivates the dinosaur to do any thing is fear of death really.

Desire is the source of all evil. There would be no more lions eating zebras,
pedophiles raping little girls or countries going to war over oil
if desire did not exist. Desire can only be at best a neutral thing, and only in a world
that has infinite resources, but we don't live in that world.
And even if we did, all we would be doing would be satisfying infinite desires for eternity.
Even when you remove evil and suffering from life, when you try to make it a paradise, it
still looks like a madhouse. An abomination. There's something inherently repulsive about the process of living itself.

If we were all nonexistent, the irritation that disrupts our comfort and forces us
to seek a way to regain it would also be nonexistent. In death we would finally be happy, because death
is the end of that disruption, of that hunger that never ends.

Imagine you have the best day in your life, the happiest day in your life.
And then when you go to sleep you gracefully lose consciousness to never again regain it.
Would that be worse then having billions of happy days?
Is eating cake one day and then ceasing to exist
worse than eating cakes forever, having a hunger that never ends? I'd say the former makes more sense.
If the only meaning of life is solving problems, the best way to go about it is by not being a living being anymore.
Not being a living being IS the permanent comfort - satisfaction, the happiness.

Can't you see how pointless never ending desire is? Point A, Point B, Point C, Point D, Point ....
It's only a temporary solution. The problem is the mechanism itself that creates the need for movement in the first place.

You're hiding the dust in your room under the bed instead of vacuuming it

Death is the promised land.

 

[LittleJem]

I'd rather be the zebra! The zebra was hopefully happy before it got eaten.

Unfortunately, no lions are coming to eat me today. So another day of mental illness awaits while people tell me to stay off drugs and all I think about is death. Yeah.

@Dinosaur wow your writing

 

[Deleted member 847]

I'd rather be the zebra! The zebra was hopefully happy before it got eaten.

Unfortunately, no lions are coming to eat me today. So another day of mental illness awaits while people tell me to stay off drugs and all I think about is death. Yeah.

@Dinosaur wow your writing

No he was working hard to survive, find food, water.
He was living a pathetic life that he felt emotionally attached to,
and then he got into a situation with a bunch of lions brutally eating his nuts and guts
while being stressed, shocked and in excruciating physical pain,
he lost everything he valued because some exterior force felt like they were entitled to steal it.

Someone actually tried to murder me once (school bullies( by tying a bag over my head, trying to asphyxiate me.
trust me being dominated and overpowered, while struggling to fight back
is one of the worst feelings - experiences you can live

you can even see him in the video bitting the lions back and then the lioness bites his neck to stop him,
it reminded me of when I was trying to fight my bullies off to get that thing off my head

That zebra didn't just have to worry about the immense amount of physical pain going on in his body,
he also had to feel the stress and anger towards a stronger evil force dominating him, taking away his right to live and be comfortable

Having a broken leg because someone was horny to break your leg feels way
worse than just having a broken leg

If you just have a broken leg, you know there was nothing you could do about it
but if some asshole is the reason why you have it, you know that the asshole had the choice not to break your leg
The evil and the dominance can make your broken leg hurt way more than it should've hurt
you're having a broken leg and you're also getting raped at the same time, if that works as a metaphor

And what these lions are doing is nothing compared to what human beings have been doing to each other
throughout history (look for unit 731 on google, even the nazis were horrified by it) , or what we do today to animals in slaughterhouses (no, they don't have a painless death, because that'd be too slow and expensive )

At least the lion doesn't know he's hurting his pray
human beings are evil on purpose

I call the zebra a he, I refuse to call the zebra a "it". He
has a consciousness that can feel, and I have a consciousness that can feel, and that makes us equals in my worldview.
Animals are fucking people too, they're just dumb and useless to human economy (they're retarded human beings that look funny and can't get jobs, and that's why we don't value them)