Discussion What is the "I"?

[0000000000000]

Note: Sorry if there are mistakes, my english is not good.

I'm curious about your perspectives of what you consider the "self".

Personally i see the human body as a tool, an adult person can have control of its body, but that control is not 100%. You cannot decide to feel pain or not, you cannot decide exactly what emotions to feel. You can only control to a certain extent how you react to those stimuli. People do what they can with the tools their human bodies give them: intelligence, strength, willpower, etc. These characteristics can be improved up to a certain limit imposed by the DNA of the body and other factors.

I mean, at the end of the day, every person on this planet has been forced into a body with features they didn't ask for. Personality, behavior, instincts and everything that enters into the sense of the human "I" strongly depend on the brain, when it deteriorates or dies, the rest of things perish along with it.

Now, when a person commits suicide, they are not killing themselves but the body in which they are trapped in order to free themselves from it.

People have the right to live (with or without dignity, unfortunately) but they should also be respected on their decision to end the life of their bodies on their own terms.

 

[Exiled spirit]

I think "myself" is my conscious.. It's that thing that is aware.

I don't know whether my conscious will be eternally lost if i committed suicide, but I know that I should have the right to end my life in a peaceful manner.

 

[Pluto]

You are asking the ultimate question.

Only a few people know what they are talking about, so only listen to them and disregard everyone else. They will not give you a belief system, but instructions on how to find the answer for yourself.

The true Self is here and now, so that is the place to be looking. It is not a thought or a belief system. In fact, it can only be described in the negative; it is not male or female, not young or old, not large or small, etc. Through this process of negation and going beyond our conditioned idea of ourselves (body/mind identification) the underlying consciousness can be known directly. The human/ego self can be seen to have never been real.

There are many ways to go about this, but the goal is to see the false as false and thus be liberated from it.

 

[FuneralCry]

The way that I see it, all life evolved as a consequence of evolution, and there is no purpose to life beyond this but of course people try to attach significance and meaning to something so useless as life as the human species evolved to the point in which we have the ability to be conscious and aware. I think that the whole concept of the 'self' is simply a result of this, the self is really just our consciousness.

But I do believe that when we die, we simply just lose consciousness as it's stored in the brain. I don't think that there is anything spiritual about life in any way, once we die, we cease to exist and that is it for us, there is simply nothing after this with not even the awareness that we are dead.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I LOVE discussions like this. I'm so fascinated by the way we are able to perceive ourselves in the world. I'm not so sure it is something that is shared in the same way by other animals.

As I understand it- our brain has different levels of thinking. There seems to be a more primitive and instinctual part of it- and this part is VERY strong. It has to be- it likely controls automatic things like breathing, heartbeat, regulating temparature, feeling pain... and our instinct to survive.

While it would be nice if we could outthink our pain- or at least modify it- pain serves an important function- to try to keep us away from danger. It wouldn't be all that great if we only got one warning from our bodies when we touched fire. It's necessary for our bodies to keep telling us there's a problem until we do something about it. It's just really unfortunate that we can't always heal the pain we are in.

I would agree with you that neither our bodies- or this particular element of our brains are what we think of as the 'self' though. The basic elements of a body and primal brain are shared by all of us.

I think this idea of 'self' comes about through our unique way of perceiving the world. That has likely been influenced by genetics and life experience. Yet, there seems to be multiple layers to this. We are perfectly capable of taking a further step outwards and perceiving our own perceptions. So: 'I feel depressed today- why do I feel depressed? Why do I think like this? Do I think the same way as everyone else? If not- why not? Is it a mental illness? Am I not able to move beyond some kind of trauma?'

I'm not sure if you've read the book 'The Power of Now' by Eckart Tolle? He talks about a 'surface I' and a 'deep I'. The 'surface I' being dependant on our historical identities with a past and a future. He argues that this identy is fragile because it only exists in the past and the future- both being concepts rather than something real. He believes we will reach a greater calmness if we can realise that there is a deeper state that only exists in the present (the now.) Honestly, I haven't mastered this though!

I'm not entirely sure this 'deeper I' has a personality either. By the sounds of it- it is just something that perceives things without judging them- so- another tool. Still- I remember enjoying his book! Might be worth a read if you are interested.

Anyway- sorry- bit of a tangent there. I suppose it was just that acknowledgement though- that we do appear to have different layers of thinking.

If I'm honest though- I'm not so sure that that is an indication that the 'self' can survive separately from the brain. I'm not sure if that is what you might be contemplating as well? I think it may well be that we have just evolved to work like this.

Perhaps it gave us an evolutionary edge to be able to form complex emotions, recall memories, develop language and communication and reflect on ourselves and others. When you think about it- a lot of what we cherish as our 'selves' is bound up in our relationships with others. All of the above qualities enables us to do this on a very deep level.

Perhaps it's just a biological advantage. If we have a deep sense of self, I suppose the hope is- we will take even better care of ourselves because we realise (or, dellude ourselves) that we are something unique and special. (Kind of ironic then that a constant introspection can likely also lead to depression and feelings of self loathing- I think this whole self awareness thing has gone off course to be honest.) Still- I think our 'ego's'- especially those of us who have very large ego's are also mechanisms to keep us alive.

The above qualities of forming memories, forming personalities and communicating also probably make it likely that- as a species- we (ought to) form very tight bonds with our families. We don't just love each other because we are biologically related- there are now a whole ton of character quirks we grow to love about one another- because we are able to perceive them in others and ourselves.

If the goal of life is to survive and reproduce (which I would argue- it is,) I can see how a being developing a sense of uniqueness and 'self' accompanied by the ability to form very close bonds with it's offspring would be an advantage.

That's not to say I personally totally refute anything spiritual or mystical. It's just that I think there could be clear benefits as to why we might have just evolved to be able to think like this.