Discussion What is the correct way of making genuine and lasting friendships?

[Anonymous1997ES]

While talking to my psychologist, he told me that I need to learn to love myself and be on my own/self-sufficient, and after that, it wouldn't matter if I had friendships or not, and that my brain was distributed in stats like this: (EX is the highest and E is the lowest):

He didn't told me that using these words, I'm using this scale to represent what he said to me:

Normal Intelligence: B+
Emotional Intelligence: C-
Social Skills: D-

Also... He said that while I shouldn't label myself, there's a small chance my brain is different from other people, and that's the main reason I may be a bit more gifted than others intelectually, but less gifted in social skills.

Finally... He told me that people may have been afraid of me, because they couldn't understand my mindset and/or attitude, and as humans fear the unknown, resulting in the bullying and ostracism I endured, and that as soon as I accept and love myself, things will be better (and to stop procrastinating that, as it can't be done step by step, I just need to fully love myself ASAP).

The main reason of my depression, is that I haven't been able to make friends with most people, and among those few friendships I managed to have, they either ended up fading away slowly, or I had conflicts with them, or I found out I wasn't liked in the first place at all...

I was taught that people need to respect each other, to not talk behind other people's backs, to be there in the good and bad, to show people that I care about them and so on. In a nutshell, to be respectful and supportive.

Just... What is the correct way of making friendships? As to ensure things won't end badly or being hated/ignored/abandoned later on? SInce the method I mentioned above didn't work in 90% of situations...

What is the most balanced way of making bonds with other people?

Frankly, sometimes I'm tired of always having to apologize, but when I make a mistake, people either hate me, or they end up getting distant, and I don't even get an answer about what I did wrong in order to improve... It's true that they don't have to forgive me if they don't want to, but at least an explanation would be nice...

That's the reason I find full self-love to be impossible... I don't want to disappoint my psychologist, but at most I could accept myself and like a few good things I have, not fully love myself or be 100% Self-Sufficient...

Having so much broken relationships and friendships with other people is the main reason I feel like this... I don't want to lose more people, I barely could reconnect with some a week ago, if I were to lose more people I would get very hurt...

 

[motel rooms]

I don't want to disappoint my psychologist

Worry about your psychologist disappointing you, my friend

 

[Pluto]

I don't have an answer to your question, but have been through a similar process. I had some friendships that slowly faded away. Now, feeling increasingly isolated and desperate has turned out to be the worst state to try and make new friends. I've found it to be a death spiral. I hope you are able to find answers.

 

[Arvinneedstodie]

My therapist kind of said the same thing to me when I mentioned that I can't make and maintain friends. The "love yourself first" seems to be one of the default answers to give, but I also can't think of any really good answers to give. People who do have friends don't even have to think about how they're doing it, it's something that is natural and gets better with age and experience. I feel like most people also have social skills and social circles that they build up from childhood, and it's the foundation that makes them strong and help them grow. I never had that foundation and people pick up on that, it's like a huge sign over my head saying I'm incompatible. I have tried to fake it and mask myself up, but it's unsustainable and I always end up breaking down and crashing, resulting in me quitting my job and isolating myself for months afterwards. The older I get the less I care about it all, but exposure and experience are still important because at the very least it helps you understand yourself better. I have learned that I most likely have Asperger, and it all kind of make sense after that. If I'm 25 and still don't have friends then I really do need to learn to be okay by myself.

 

[Makko]

I was taught that people need to respect each other, to not talk behind other people's backs, to be there in the good and bad, to show people that I care about them and so on. In a nutshell, to be respectful and supportive.

This is not enough and not even the most important thing. The most important thing is that people need to enjoy being around you. You need to be fun. This is true for 5 year olds and it is just as true for 50 year olds. If you can entertain people they will want to be around you even if you're unsupportive and disrespectful.

 

[motel rooms]

If you can entertain people they will want to be around you even if you're unsupportive and disrespectful.

And this is true even if you have autism, you're a gay bitch or a heartless witch

 

[TriggerHappy]

true and lasting friendships?
Thats easy, all you need is a basement with a bolt door.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

And this is true even if you have autism, you're a gay bitch or a heartless witch

The holy trinity.

 

[motel rooms]

The holy trinity.

Daddy, Boy & the Ghost from Hell

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

Daddy, Boy & the Ghost from Hell

I am your autistic daddy now, you've been a bad boy.

 

[newave3]

Genuine and lasting friendships? What's that? You have to learn to accept the fact that throughout your life people will come and go like ships that pass in the night. We all get tired of each other's company and we move on. Even at my advanced age though I still have a few friends I can talk to now and then which is nice. What I truly value above all else and care about the most is the few family members I have left. They are what is most important to me.

 

[TriggerHappy]

...if you don't have a basement with a deadbolt door, I find having some compromising content on your friend keeps them close, willing and attentive...

 

[motel rooms]

I am your autistic daddy now, you've been a bad boy.

I'm open to being spanked, but I might make a sticky mess on your lap

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

I'm open to being spanked, but I might make a sticky mess on your lap

Tfw the closest thing to intimacy I've experienced is pretending to be gay online with you. (Sry, will stop derailing the thread. Carry on).

 

[motel rooms]

Tfw the closest thing to intimacy I've experienced is pretending to be gay online with you.

That's how we recruit...

 

[TriggerHappy]

I'm open to being spanked, but I might make a sticky mess on your lap

Nothing wrong with 'correcting' 'bad' behavior :: its how we all learn!
Making a mess is a sign of dedication to the process.
(..anyway that's what we were taught at artschool!)



This is "my-ending-things" track that I lie to myself // play in my head.

Love the dissociation game play in these lyrics, so subtle.
Tori Amos does a wicked cover.

 

[Anonymous1997ES]

Thanks to all the people who commented the thread, really, those perspectives about friendship helped a lot.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

Finally... He told me that people may have been afraid of me, because they couldn't understand my mindset and/or attitude, and as humans fear the unknown, resulting in the bullying and ostracism I endured...

Bullying is not acceptable even if you are a person who is difficult to read. Many decades ago the ostracization of homosexuals was rife, and it was partially because of what you have mentioned above: they were not understood, or rather their sexuality was not. By this logic homophobia was (and still is) justified.

...and that as soon as I accept and love myself, things will be better (and to stop procrastinating that, as it can't be done step by step, I just need to fully love myself ASAP).

Loving and taking care of yourself are things that you should always do. However this will not always change other peoples behaviours towards you. Your feelings of happiness are internal and cannot magically warp reality around you. Whereas any awful behaviour from other individuals is external, and definitely can affect you and your happiness. It is not an equal comparison. Plus abusive individuals will always attempt to find something about you which can be attacked no matter how you display yourself.

To claim that any mistreatment you experience will vanish if you just change your outlook, is the equivalent of saying:"If I stop wearing revealing clothing then people will stop trying to rape me." The point is, firstly, that you should not have to change in order to receive better treatment - assuming that you are an innocent party. The onus is on the bullies and abusers to not be horrible excuses for human beings. Of course in the current climate sociopathy seems to be the norm, and kindness is oftsen viewed as weakness. The burden is often shifted onto the victims - like you - hence the current obsession with "self-love", as it is called.

 

[FuneralCry]

The way I see it, even if you try your best and are there for somebody else, they can easily let you down. People are disappointing and can easily betray you. I have no idea about how to make long lasting friendships, I no longer speak to the friends that I used to have. I broke contact with them gradually as I lacked the energy to maintain friendships and I found it tiring. It does not come naturally to me, making friends and I do not feel relaxed around others.

 

[Anonymous1997ES]

Worry about your psychologist disappointing you, my friend

Sorry for saying that, I've disappointed some of the other psychologists I've had so I don't want that to happen again u_u

I don't have an answer to your question, but have been through a similar process. I had some friendships that slowly faded away. Now, feeling increasingly isolated and desperate has turned out to be the worst state to try and make new friends. I've found it to be a death spiral. I hope you are able to find answers.

Sorry to hear that... Same for you, I hope you can make connections with others in the future as well.

My therapist kind of said the same thing to me when I mentioned that I can't make and maintain friends. The "love yourself first" seems to be one of the default answers to give, but I also can't think of any really good answers to give. People who do have friends don't even have to think about how they're doing it, it's something that is natural and gets better with age and experience. I feel like most people also have social skills and social circles that they build up from childhood, and it's the foundation that makes them strong and help them grow. I never had that foundation and people pick up on that, it's like a huge sign over my head saying I'm incompatible. I have tried to fake it and mask myself up, but it's unsustainable and I always end up breaking down and crashing, resulting in me quitting my job and isolating myself for months afterwards. The older I get the less I care about it all, but exposure and experience are still important because at the very least it helps you understand yourself better. I have learned that I most likely have Asperger, and it all kind of make sense after that. If I'm 25 and still don't have friends then I really do need to learn to be okay by myself.

Sorry to hear that... It's like an innate skill people develop via certain life experiences, and some people like us never had that foundation or we had it partially, causing problems in adulthood... I really hope you can make connections with others in the future too.

If you can don't tell anyone about it, keep it to yourself, so you won't have trouble for that in the future... Trust me, telling people that will only bring pain and despair.

This is not enough and not even the most important thing. The most important thing is that people need to enjoy being around you. You need to be fun. This is true for 5 year olds and it is just as true for 50 year olds. If you can entertain people they will want to be around you even if you're unsupportive and disrespectful.

That really explains a lot of things... In the end, what matters is making others laugh and happy, right? Wow... To be honest I never saw it like this...

true and lasting friendships?
Thats easy, all you need is a basement with a bolt door.

I don't fully understand this to be honest, and from what I've understood, I don't think I could ever lockdown someone else at all.

Genuine and lasting friendships? What's that? You have to learn to accept the fact that throughout your life people will come and go like ships that pass in the night. We all get tired of each other's company and we move on. Even at my advanced age though I still have a few friends I can talk to now and then which is nice. What I truly value above all else and care about the most is the few family members I have left. They are what is most important to me.

Guess you're right, some people might stay with us more than others, and in the end, them and our families are the most important things that we should always protect and be there for, true? Think I will protect the remaining friends I have, my family and maybe anyone else I can as long as I can, would that be okay?

Bullying is not acceptable even if you are a person who is difficult to read. Many decades ago the ostracization of homosexuals was rife, and it was partially because of what you have mentioned above: they were not understood, or rather their sexuality was not. By this logic homophobia was (and still is) justified.


Loving and taking care of yourself are things that you should always do. However this will not always change other peoples behaviours towards you. Your feelings of happiness are internal and cannot magically warp reality around you. Whereas any awful behaviour from other individuals is external, and definitely can affect you and your happiness. It is not an equal comparison. Plus abusive individuals will always attempt to find something about you which can be attacked no matter how you display yourself.

To claim that any mistreatment you experience will vanish if you just change your outlook, is the equivalent of saying:"If I stop wearing revealing clothing then people will stop trying to rape me." The point is, firstly, that you should not have to change in order to receive better treatment - assuming that you are an innocent party. The onus is on the bullies and abusers to not be horrible excuses for human beings. Of course in the current climate sociopathy seems to be the norm, and kindness is oftsen viewed as weakness. The burden is often shifted onto the victims - like you - hence the current obsession with "self-love", as it is called.

Good point, homosexual people should have never been abused because of their sexuality, or anyone with a different sexuality for that matter (bisexuals, pansexuals, asexuals or demisexuals), it wasn't justified nor right... Abusing people is never right...

It's true, though I think my psychologist didn't mean it like that. He said that if I learned to fully love myself in an unconditional way, accepting every single part of me, then, I could theorically live on my own, and would be happy even while having others at my side or none at all.

You're right, even if I loved myself in a 100% way, others actions would still affect me, and we can't fully develop a thick skin to avoid being hurt, but rather we could think that their actions and their own, and we shouldn't force ourselves to to think everything is our fault.

Well... I developed some bad habits, like trying to please everyone, I was condescending in the way I didn't tell people about how I felt but rather tried to shrug things off, I acted rashly and made promises I didn't know I could fulfill, my personality was too intense and annoying, and my attempts to connect with others resulted in failure most of the time... Right now I stopped doing those things mostly, but I still paid the price for those mistakes...

It's like our society tell us we must fix the damage others did to us as well as our mistakes, and if we can't then we're wrong, right?

The way I see it, even if you try your best and are there for somebody else, they can easily let you down. People are disappointing and can easily betray you. I have no idea about how to make long lasting friendships, I no longer speak to the friends that I used to have. I broke contact with them gradually as I lacked the energy to maintain friendships and I found it tiring. It does not come naturally to me, making friends and I do not feel relaxed around others.

Sorry to hear that... Sometimes connecting with others can be tiring and it's true that they can disappoint us... To cope with that I think that most people don't do so out of malice/maliciousness, and that everyone can fail another person at some point, so we could remember others based on their good choices rather than the bad ones.

 

[TriggerHappy]

""I don't fully understand this to be honest, and....""

It's ok, my macabre sense of humour making me unpopular again.
How ironic - on a :: "how to make friends thread..."
I'm dismally misunderstood. No surprises there :: people love me until they get butchered by my self destructive tendencies :: so being a good friend, I stay away.
That's what the Buddhists advise. I do love the colour orange.
Maybe if I was a Satanist I'd have more friends?! Oh shit, I'm already manipulative and controlling and self obsessed?
I can apply for a pre-accepted v.i.p membership card for the organisation? Really?!
What do you mean I have to give up my rosary collection?
And I have to stop listening to disco?
I'll get back to you.

 

[edu0z]

While talking to my psychologist, he told me that I need to learn to love myself and be on my own/self-sufficient, and after that, it wouldn't matter if I had friendships or not, and that my brain was distributed in stats like this: (EX is the highest and E is the lowest):

He didn't told me that using these words, I'm using this scale to represent what he said to me:

Normal Intelligence: B+
Emotional Intelligence: C-
Social Skills: D-

Also... He said that while I shouldn't label myself, there's a small chance my brain is different from other people, and that's the main reason I may be a bit more gifted than others intelectually, but less gifted in social skills.

Finally... He told me that people may have been afraid of me, because they couldn't understand my mindset and/or attitude, and as humans fear the unknown, resulting in the bullying and ostracism I endured, and that as soon as I accept and love myself, things will be better (and to stop procrastinating that, as it can't be done step by step, I just need to fully love myself ASAP).

The main reason of my depression, is that I haven't been able to make friends with most people, and among those few friendships I managed to have, they either ended up fading away slowly, or I had conflicts with them, or I found out I wasn't liked in the first place at all...

I was taught that people need to respect each other, to not talk behind other people's backs, to be there in the good and bad, to show people that I care about them and so on. In a nutshell, to be respectful and supportive.

Just... What is the correct way of making friendships? As to ensure things won't end badly or being hated/ignored/abandoned later on? SInce the method I mentioned above didn't work in 90% of situations...

What is the most balanced way of making bonds with other people?

Frankly, sometimes I'm tired of always having to apologize, but when I make a mistake, people either hate me, or they end up getting distant, and I don't even get an answer about what I did wrong in order to improve... It's true that they don't have to forgive me if they don't want to, but at least an explanation would be nice...

That's the reason I find full self-love to be impossible... I don't want to disappoint my psychologist, but at most I could accept myself and like a few good things I have, not fully love myself or be 100% Self-Sufficient...

Having so much broken relationships and friendships with other people is the main reason I feel like this... I don't want to lose more people, I barely could reconnect with some a week ago, if I were to lose more people I would get very hurt...

it's because you desperately need to make friends, that they smell your anxiety ...

your psychology is right, you can't love anyone if you don't love yourself. It is as if you invited someone to eat at your house and you only served them the garbage that you would not eat yourself.

learn this "To love is not to need, it is to care."

and I could explain many things to you such as, for example, society is like a market. In a market the value of things depends on how much they are in demand. This can be applied to the social case: if you are always there for whatever it is with your friends, your value goes down.

It sounds unconventional, but this is how social psychology works. And the most important:

love then, as you would love yourself. and for that you must first learn to love yourself. Have passions, hobbies, activities that you like to do.

In the end, friendship is not a formula, it is a completely natural process that is integrated in each of our brains, only that your social despair prevents it from being activated.

 

[TriggerHappy]

it's because you desperately need to make friends, that they smell your anxiety ...

your psychology is right, you can't love anyone if you don't love yourself. It is as if you invited someone to eat at your house and you only served them the garbage that you would not eat yourself.

learn this "To love is not to need, it is to care."

Cøme join MY cult.

 

[edu0z]

Cøme join MY cult.

ajaja what cult?

 

[TriggerHappy]

ajaja what cult?

Not sure yet, truthfully.
But non judgemental, personal freedom will be a priority.*
((*but you have to like the same music as me lol))
And we gotta have cool matching t-shirts. Or at least key-rings.
At this stage of the game I'm over being bothered by anonymity / inventory taking / even hooking up. I'm learning all about disassociative disorder in the forums (maybe that's why I wanna fire my councilor, I'm done with him! Is that a symptom?) so I doubt I'd even be a good leader
...& I struggle with guiding & advising (im not stable, I don't like giving advice (I think I'm redundant &stupid), and I'm rebelliously argumentative -just because I can be!)
I'm more a behind the scenes (hidden under your bed / in the boot of your car) kinda guy, leaving semi-naked through the back patio door is kinda my style, so I'm not really leadership material. But I enjoy pulling (suspension) strings and into making (grooming) introductions.
Wow this is a lot of work. Maybe we should launch a site, with like-minded individuals that could post their innermost secrets, and even get some recovery if they choose?
We could have cool forums, a private area for whatever and maybe a pretty purplish lavender banner (that frustratingly won't dissappear when you scroll)...
Nyeh Nyeh.... I think we'd make a great cult. I vote Marquis for enigmatic leader.
Thanks for the ramble, had fun.

 

[motel rooms]

Loving and taking care of yourself are things that you should always do. However this will not always change other peoples behaviours towards you. Your feelings of happiness are internal and cannot magically warp reality around you. Whereas any awful behaviour from other individuals is external, and definitely can affect you and your happiness. It is not an equal comparison. Plus abusive individuals will always attempt to find something about you which can be attacked no matter how you display yourself.

To claim that any mistreatment you experience will vanish if you just change your outlook, is the equivalent of saying:"If I stop wearing revealing clothing then people will stop trying to rape me." The point is, firstly, that you should not have to change in order to receive better treatment - assuming that you are an innocent party. The onus is on the bullies and abusers to not be horrible excuses for human beings. Of course in the current climate sociopathy seems to be the norm, and kindness is oftsen viewed as weakness. The burden is often shifted onto the victims - like you - hence the current obsession with "self-love", as it is called.

Yep, this psychologist is either completely clueless as to how the real world works or purposely gives unrealistic advice.

Finally... He told me that people may have been afraid of me, because they couldn't understand my mindset and/or attitude, and as humans fear the unknown, resulting in the bullying and ostracism I endured, and that as soon as I accept and love myself, things will be better (and to stop procrastinating that, as it can't be done step by step, I just need to fully love myself ASAP).

Yeah, it's incredibly easy to start fully loving oneself immediately. Your psychologist is in desperate need of professional help from someone who is actually familiar with how the human mind operates

I've disappointed some of the other psychologists I've had so I don't want that to happen again

Again, it's not your fault most of them are unequipped to help their patients.

 

[Anonymous1997ES]

It's ok, my macabre sense of humour making me unpopular again.
How ironic - on a :: "how to make friends thread..."
I'm dismally misunderstood. No surprises there :: people love me until they get butchered by my self destructive tendencies :: so being a good friend, I stay away.
That's what the Buddhists advise. I do love the colour orange.
Maybe if I was a Satanist I'd have more friends?! Oh shit, I'm already manipulative and controlling and self obsessed?
I can apply for a pre-accepted v.i.p membership card for the organisation? Really?!
What do you mean I have to give up my rosary collection?
And I have to stop listening to disco?
I'll get back to you.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't mean to make you feel bad u_u

it's because you desperately need to make friends, that they smell your anxiety ...

your psychology is right, you can't love anyone if you don't love yourself. It is as if you invited someone to eat at your house and you only served them the garbage that you would not eat yourself.

learn this "To love is not to need, it is to care."

and I could explain many things to you such as, for example, society is like a market. In a market the value of things depends on how much they are in demand. This can be applied to the social case: if you are always there for whatever it is with your friends, your value goes down.

It sounds unconventional, but this is how social psychology works. And the most important:

love then, as you would love yourself. and for that you must first learn to love yourself. Have passions, hobbies, activities that you like to do.

In the end, friendship is not a formula, it is a completely natural process that is integrated in each of our brains, only that your social despair prevents it from being activated.

Well, somehow I still have friends despite just tolerating myself at most, and I can still care about people because I remember that feeling before everything went downhill u_u

Phew, have some good hobbies I like to do, and you're right, since I still have friends, I just need to slowly heal and maybe in the future I could make new connections and protect the ones I have now.

Thanks for the advice, it's true, if you look for people just for the sake of feeling a void they could end up feeling it, right? Will try to keep doing things naturally and steady.

Yep, this psychologist is either completely clueless as to how the real world works or purposely gives unrealistic advice.



Yeah, it's incredibly easy to start fully loving oneself immediately. Your psychologist is in desperate need of professional help from someone who is actually familiar with how the human mind operates


Again, it's not your fault most of them are unequipped to help their patients.

I don't mean to make a misunderstanding but, I think I phrased it badly u_u

What he meant is that if I have a solid base of self-love to fall on, and understand I can't control nor influence other people's actions, I won't get as hurt as I used to do in the past or something like that. And that I should stop caring about other people's thoughts and just focus on my own.

Thankfully this psychologist gives free therapy sesions, otherwise I could never had enough money for a full threatment, its in a place our government put to support suicidal people.

 

[Makko]

What he meant is that if I have a solid base of self-love to fall on, and understand I can't control nor influence other people's actions, I won't get as hurt as I used to do in the past or something like that.

Where is this solid base of self-love supposed to come from? Self-esteem can't be pulled out of thin air. It comes from the feeling that you're good at or for something.

 

[BrokenLine]

I truly wish i knew,

 

[motel rooms]

What he meant is that if I have a solid base of self-love to fall on, and understand I can't control nor influence other people's actions, I won't get as hurt as I used to do in the past or something like that. And that I should stop caring about other people's thoughts and just focus on my own.

Yes, self-acceptance/self-love is crucial, but you can only make progress on that front by taking baby steps. You have to be very patient & persistent, nobody can change anything significant about themselves overnight.