What if we attack the pro-life gang / Kelli WIlson?

[mekurin]

How does reporting a Discord server and getting it shut down work?

Servers can't be reported anymore after they removed trust n safety from their website. What people do now is send a message and wait days or weeks, they will go back to the message and edit it to make it racist, homophobic, or whatever else that would go against TOS and then use another account to report their own message. If the trust n safety team sees it and decide the message does indeed break TOS they will ban that user and the entire server. I know it sounds stupid. It is. Discord has been like this for years but there are methods to stop this method.

 

[Arihman]

Personally, I have no pity for these assholes, even if they did actually suffer from a loss. Nobody is blaming the act of grieving in itself, and I have no problem with trying to persuade suicidal people from cbt.

However, if you want to force people to live, and moreover support laws that do precisely that, you are a slave driver.

Forcing suicidal people to live is asking them to make a much bigger sacrifice than having to endure the pain of loss, especially when that pain can arguably be mitigated by introducing a waiting period. Having to endure an entire life that is deemed bad enough to want to end it, while being forced to pay the cost for its maintainance that includes striving to meet needs that would no longer exist were you dead, while also not being guaranteed to recover/get better, is plainly and simply slavery.

Having to endure one instance of suffering that is inevitable anyway can't reasonably be compared to an entire life of suffering, not only in terms of overall quality, but also in terms of the effort required to get better: recovering from one bad event is much easier than recovering from an entire bad life. The two sacrifices are not comparable.

If suicide is bad because people who want to cbt can get better, then so is suicide prevention, because grieving relatives and friends can also get over the loss, and in fact, logically, the latter should be noticeably easier. What's good for the goose is also good for the gander, duh.

Which means that what they're asking for is being free to cause more suffering for the sake of preventing less of it.

And again, despite viewing suicide as more rational than continued existence, I'm all for peaceful suicide prevention.

But pro-lifers don't want that, in which case I wish they die of cancer, they just should get what they fucking deserve. And honestly, if you are that offended by the fact that someone chose to die peacefully instead of enduring a natural, possibly horrible death, then fuck your love and consideration, you are an asshole who doesn't deserve to be called a loved one to the person you're grieving in the first place.

 

[SexyIncél]

An update

Their audience is tiny. Their Elon account only has 111 followers. On a dying platform where angry posts aren't a scarce commodity. Plus, it's just lying propaganda. (Calling everyone "Lamarcus")

Like, we're almost the only ones reading that tweet

If they had an effect, it'd just be to increase SaSu membership. Like with that youtuber. Because they're taking the low road to addressing the suicide boom. And everyone's more concerned about species-level suicide with nukes, climate change and everything else

 

[Professor K]

Alright so in order to protect and help people from CTB and revenge the ones who died, they bully other suicidal people who are no different than their loved ones who died, got it.
By attacking the server SS, they attack members and that is insulting their loved ones.

 

[Pluto]

 

[TAW122]

I had similar thoughts too even pre-SaSu days, and I don't regret and will never apologize for standing up for the right to die (on one's own terms). Some examples of what I did as far as messing with pro-lifers.

Revisiting the war I waged against prolifers (2015-2019)

I may have told this story before (seen in another thread last year, and the original one a few years ago), but this time I'm revamping it and summarizing the story, broken down into three main points, as well as giving my thought process on it. This is something that happened way before the...

sanctioned-suicide.net

The huggy-trolly wars

This is a story of how I ended up embroiled in a war against a pro-life society, along with the backstory and all. This occurred from many years ago and from 2014-2015 was the spark that lit up the powder keg which lead to a social and one man war against society. The prelude to the...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I know it's a drop in the bucket, but at least that gave me some catharsis especially given how I was treated by others (pro-lifers of course) and at least some outlet.

 

[doneforlife]

As unfair as everything they do is escalating is way more dangerous and it's unlikely to actually fix anything. Even if it worked I would struggle to support anything that really hurts people. I want them to stop, but I also don't want them to be hurt in the process or for anyone to really understand what it's like to live like this.

Statistically and psychologically speaking offence is also not the way to change people's minds. The human brain doubles down hard when something attacks its beliefs- the thing that tends to work best is open, civil discussion. Obviously that's a two way street and if they won't engage then we can't force them to.

I'm all for protecting the community, but I think attacking others is going to cause more harm- to people on every side- than good. If you're thinking more along the lines of advocacy then I would be interested. Don't know how much I can contribute on any given day because I tend to be pretty low on energy, but I'd like to try and help if possible.

What is this all about. Sorry , I am new to this site.

 

[Arihman]

To add to my previous post, I think there are some very important questions about the pain of loved ones that need addressing.

It is often said that suicide causes huge amounts of pain to those who are left behind, but while it is undoubtedly true that losing a loved one is a bad experience, does suicide itself add to that, thus making it worse than a natural death? If so, to what extent? And how much of that additional suffering is due to the circumstances of suicide (e.g returning home and seeing your son hanging from the ceiling)? Also, how much of that pain is due to suicide being "sudden", as in happening without loved ones having the time to prepare mentally for the loss?

Because if the answer to latter two questions is "a lot" or "a significant amount", then those problems can at least be mitigated by the compromise of a waiting period, at the end of which the suicidal person might even decide to stay alive. That's because a prison becomes home when you have the key, and this forum would become unnecessary if we had at least that possibility.

That would be a win win situation, and yet, if what I said above is true, pro-lifers are causing more pain not only to suicidal people, but to themselves, which would be quite ironic.

I could say this is what many of them deserve, but at least with a waiting period concerns about people being pressured into killing themselves would be vastly mitigated, and such a compromise might be necessary to give people the legal option of a peaceful death.

 

[MyLifeIsANightmare]

 

[brokeandbroken]

A) no that's a terrible plan. Will make you/SS look horrendous. B) if you are going to attack her... Do it by rightfully saying she didn't care/wasn't involved enough in her sons life as well as societies apathy towards people's struggles... How peoples narcissism and selfishness is causing rampant depression, suicide, etc.... Use it to instigate good change rather than make us easy targets to further marginalize... C) Explain how SS is one of the few outlets that exist to discuss our feelings without having pills shoved down out throats...

Put another way how many of us have suffered at the hands of society? Bullied, traumatized, etc... Then abandoned left to deal with that shit alone. No help from society, the world, etc.. To deal with the damage they caused... Present the message of people victimized by society and needing an escape because that's the reality. Attacking the mother of a suicide victim won't get you anywhere besides the site shutdown and the only therapy available to us that helps underground... As society will see her as that... Present her as likely a bad mother. With the proof being a dead body... Society will likely see her as that. In otherwords say she/society killed her son *if* confronted. We are here to get the only help available.

 

[Pidgeons_Sparrows]

An update

HAHAHHAHAHA these sorry ass boomer bums really spend their whole day browsing peoples threads and screenshotting them... jesus that was a fast response

FT26 can go fuck themselves. All of them. Sure its sad that their children CTBed especially because they were, well, underage children (seriously, please dont CTB if you are underage, you really shouldnt be making decisions like that when youre still in stupid kid phase), But that does not give them an excuse to go here and attack people, getting them doxxed, swatted...

Especially because 99% of the time they attack random fucking people on here that had nothing to do with their childs, or anyones suicide. These old sacks are so dense and narcicisstic they couldnt even IMAGINE the idea that maybe, just MAYBE their childs suicide was the result of their own shitty parenting? But nah that would require these people to have the tiniest amount of introspection which they dont have.

Instead they put all the blame, all their rage and energy on SaSu and random SaSu members. Oh well, whatever helps you cope / sleep better at night i guess..
Youve lost your children, and were not responsible for it. Maybe you should have been a better parent, have a nice day and fuck off. This site has a no tolerance rule for minors, and any child that lies to still get into this place, well, thats tragic and they shouldnt be here, but theres literally nothing the staff can do about is. Thats none of our fault. The staff team are already trying their best to keep minors out of this site with all their ability, but they are not wizards or mind readers.

And for any of your children that are 18+ and have taken their lives, well, tragic, but... The right to die is one of the most basic human rights that any adult has, period. It is impossible to infringe or revoke and is on the same status as the right to live. You cannot control other peoples lives, period. If you do, well, see you at the hague for human rights violations.

I dont think attacking them back is a good idea, just ignore these pathetic bums, however I will say that if these people ever end up getting themselves doxxed I wont feel sorry for them at all. These people should stop relentlessly harassing us before karma bites them in the ass.

A) no that's a terrible plan. Will make you/SS look horrendous. B) if you are going to attack her... Do it by rightfully saying she didn't care/wasn't involved enough in her sons life as well as societies apathy towards people's struggles... How peoples narcissism and selfishness is causing rampant depression, suicide, etc.... Use it to instigate good change rather than make us easy targets to further marginalize... C) Explain how SS is one of the few outlets that exist to discuss our feelings without having pills shoved down out throats...

Or you can just not bother and ignore them because these people will not listen no matter what you say and how you explain it no matter how friendly you are. They are mentally dense, rock solid even, blinded by rage and grief. Their ears are stuffed and they will not listen. Ignoring them is the smartest move here.

I had similar thoughts too even pre-SaSu days, and I don't regret and will never apologize for standing up for the right to die (on one's own terms). Some examples of what I did as far as messing with pro-lifers.

Revisiting the war I waged against prolifers (2015-2019)

I may have told this story before (seen in another thread last year, and the original one a few years ago), but this time I'm revamping it and summarizing the story, broken down into three main points, as well as giving my thought process on it. This is something that happened way before the...

sanctioned-suicide.net

The huggy-trolly wars

This is a story of how I ended up embroiled in a war against a pro-life society, along with the backstory and all. This occurred from many years ago and from 2014-2015 was the spark that lit up the powder keg which lead to a social and one man war against society. The prelude to the...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I know it's a drop in the bucket, but at least that gave me some catharsis especially given how I was treated by others (pro-lifers of course) and at least some outlet.

You sir are absolutely based. +1 awarded for fighting for the peoples right to die, it might be a drop in the bucket in your eyes but your contributions are recognized. Thank you for your service

Would only give them fuel for their weird little fire they're trying to maintain. Wouldn't hurt them, only us. Am somewhat curious about how they would respond to an email asking legitimate questions such as why they want to force others to live, or why they are deliberately lying about sasu, why they've encouraged harrassment and celebrated the deaths of people here, why they aren't trying to improve things so the world is more livable if they actually want to help suicide. Why are they trying to remove the solution instead of providing legitimate alternatives? Etc. Am assuming they would just ignore it rather than provide a legitimate well thought out compassionate response, or try and twist it up and vilify the site even more.

It's pretty funny that you can post a legitimate request for help on one of their pro forced life places and not recieve a single reply beyond dm scams and bullying in dms, post the same thing here and get access to so many resources that are nothing like they're claiming.

Seriously, they tell people to kill themselves, then complain that's what is happening here? Even if it was, (which it isn't) they'd have no moral grounds cause they're lying hypocrites.

FT26 celebrating the death of SaSu users?
can these idiots atleast decide what sort of ideals they stand for? This is completely contradictory to what their whole opinion is supposed to be

 

[Arihman]

FT26 celebrating the death of SaSu users?
can these idiots atleast decide what sort of ideals they stand for? This is completely contradictory to what their whole opinion is supposed to be

Seriously? That just further proves these people are shitheads. They're out to get revenge, not even to help others. Granted, not that their intention being genuine wouldn't still make them huge assholes (especially the very incoherent concept of "vulnerable" people these individuals peddle, which is insanely obnoxious and disgusting).

 

[Judah]

Seriously? That just further proves these people are shitheads. They're out to get revenge, not even to help others. Granted, not that their intention being genuine wouldn't still make them huge assholes (especially the very incoherent concept of "vulnerable" people these individuals peddle, which is insanely obnoxious and disgusting).

Not only that, they have also doxxed some members and resorted to swating.

They sent a trans girl to be beaten because they thought she was RAS

Kelli even frequently threatens me that she will use my data or information to harm me.

 

[lethargic]

I've never heard of who any of these people are. Sending some trans person to get beaten? Laughing at the people CTB'ing here? What? What do they stand for?

Idk sounds lame & boring, who cares. Conceal your identities here.

Also, hi Kelli. What did you do to your child for them to not only consider suicide but go through with it? Since I know you're reading this thread, I would love to know.

 

[Professor K]

Also, hi Kelli. What did you do to your child for them to not only consider suicide but go through with it? Since I know you're reading this thread, I would love to know.

I'd not at all be surprised that her son ended up joining this website if she acted so haughty, hostile and obstinate while he was alive, the same way she does now.
Who in their right mind would consider opening up about their suicidal thoughts to her?
Everyone around me isn't as malicious as she appears to be on here, but they are as obstinate with their pro life dogma as she is and that is the reason why I resorted to joining SS.

 

[ablationaaa457]

These sort of people strike me the type who don't actually give a shit about suicidal people and are just here to virtuepost because they feel guilty and want to blame external factors instead of their own failings as a parent or friend. Otherwise they'd devote their time into actually investigating why people consider suicide and thinking of ways to alleviate those who are genuinely considering it as an option, as opposed to spending considerable energy on attacking vulnerable people here and even celebrating the deaths of members here (if they can't see the glaring irony in their actions they really need to go to an eye doctor to check their vision).

Fwiw, I still wouldn't condone any attacks against others, as I feel it'll most likely just result in escalation that ultimately leads nowhere but to significantly more hurt for people on both sides. If possible, I'd just ignore them entirely, perhaps with very strict moderation and keeping your future server private and being very strict on who you allow in, as others here have suggested.

 

[TAW122]

I just found this video on the Internet and just as a disclaimer, I do not condone any illegal acts nor actions that may result in compromising one's own safety.

You sir are absolutely based. +1 awarded for fighting for the peoples right to die, it might be a drop in the bucket in your eyes but your contributions are recognized. Thank you for your service

Much appreciated and while it may not necessarily sit well with some people here, the idea is to cause inconvenience and discomfort to the pro-lifers who make our lives hell by imposing their will on us, including censoring any meaningful dialogue or discussion in a civil manner. Since we couldn't fight against the establishment, the brainwashed, sheep masses, and all (if not most) of the institutions that are pro-life (including the legal system).

I could do more, but I am also careful as to not go "too far" and end up causing more trouble for myself. Just enough to cause discomfort and disruption, sour the pro-lifers' a little bit, but not enough to result in (legal or otherwise serious) negative consequences.

 

[Arihman]

Not only that, they have also doxxed some members and resorted to swating.

They sent a trans girl to be beaten because they thought she was RAS

Kelli even frequently threatens me that she will use my data or information to harm me.

And how does she plan to do it? Also, more info on the trans girl's case?

 

[Chara]

What's the deal with Kelli? Who was her kid on the site-anyone know or talk to him? I don't think she's even got his story on her own little website has she?

Probably cause any articles published about it would reveal she was abusive or if we knew who he was, we'd find posts about him talking about her and those would. Or perhaps, he doesn't exist. Is there any proof he existed and its not just her making stuff up for an excuse to attack people she doesn't like?

It's happened plenty of times historically after all.

 

[NoLoveNoHope]

Not only that, they have also doxxed some members and resorted to swating.

They sent a trans girl to be beaten because they thought she was RAS

Kelli even frequently threatens me that she will use my data or information to harm me.

Report this to the police. This is all very illegal. Your safety is still number 1 priority. If there's anything I can do to help you don't be afraid to message me.

 

[Judah]

Report this to the police. This is all very illegal. Your safety is still number 1 priority. If there's anything I can do to help you don't be afraid to message me.

I don't think I can take legal action being in this country where I am now

 

[brokeandbroken]

These sort of people strike me the type who don't actually give a shit about suicidal people and are just here to virtuepost because they feel guilty and want to blame external factors instead of their own failings as a parent or friend. Otherwise they'd devote their time into actually investigating why people consider suicide and thinking of ways to alleviate those who are genuinely considering it as an option, as opposed to spending considerable energy on attacking vulnerable people here and even celebrating the deaths of members here (if they can't see the glaring irony in their actions they really need to go to an eye doctor to check their vision).

Fwiw, I still wouldn't condone any attacks against others, as I feel it'll most likely just result in escalation that ultimately leads nowhere but to significantly more hurt for people on both sides. If possible, I'd just ignore them entirely, perhaps with very strict moderation and keeping your future server private and being very strict on who you allow in, as others here have suggested.

Pretty much this. It's the equivalent of a doctor putting a little work in and being able to heal someone or do nothing but keep them on life support. Everyone chooses the latter option because it's easy. Society wants to virtue (signal/post) pat themselves on the back tell themselves they are good wonderful human beings and do nothing. While people are suffering. Like I've said people want to feel good but don't want to put forth the effort to *be* good.

 

[Deathisbetter]

Who is Kelli Wilson and the rest of these people and what is their problem with this website? Should I be careful using if they are randomly swatting people? This sounds kinda worrying.

Where does she live call the police and report her swatting

An update

Can we just make this forum private already so that non members can't see the suicide forum and can't access alot of the topics

Probably cause any articles published about it would reveal she was abusive or if we knew who he was, we'd find posts about him talking about her and those would. Or perhaps, he doesn't exist. Is there any proof he existed and its not just her making stuff up for an excuse to attack people she doesn't like?

It's happened plenty of times historically after all.

No wonder he CTB I would hate to have her as a mother :(
We should actually make the forum private and laugh as she loses her shit and can't keep tabs on anything we do she screenshots everyone all the members here and attacks everyone why can't the mods do anything ban her secret accounts :( trace her IP or something and block her

 

[whywere]

Generally, the way to get to someone is to ignore them, that is my two cents on the subject.

World history has always shown that ideas cannot be crushed. Now it may be a small or large group or whatever the case may be, but jerks can harass us on here but no matter even if countries or groups or the like try to be jerks they still cannot stop the free flow of ideas and wants and needs.

It is inherently human to strive for what one wants no matter what someone, group, etc. try's and impose on others.

Folks that try and tell me how to live, act, think, breath, make me annoyed but in the long run they are always self-defeating.

Walter

 

[Deleted User#81194]

Where does she live call the police and report her swatting

Can we just make this forum private already so that non members can't see the suicide forum and can't access alot of the topics

No wonder he CTB I would hate to have her as a mother :(
We should actually make the forum private and laugh as she loses her shit and can't keep tabs on anything we do she screenshots everyone all the members here and attacks everyone why can't the mods do anything ban her secret accounts :( trace her IP or something and block her

no point honestly, they probably already have several dozen alts in here.
Imagine dedicating your life to shutting down a website. That isn't going to change anything for the ones already considering suicide especially least for those who already have/obtained a few methods. If someone's already resolve themselves to die, there's very few things you can do to sway them -- least especially taking down a site that's barely involved in their personal life. This site is just one out of many millions of resources out there to suicide, I promise you it's not very difficult to find alternatives.

It's truly a meaningless goal. But it's not like you care, you're simply out for revenge. You're intentions were never virtuous in the first place. We can all see through your snake tongue.

 

[Pidgeons_Sparrows]

Not only that, they have also doxxed some members and resorted to swating.

They sent a trans girl to be beaten because they thought she was RAS

Kelli even frequently threatens me that she will use my data or information to harm me.

what the fuck... these people are bigger shitters than i thought..

 

[chloramine]

To add to my previous post, I think there are some very important questions about the pain of loved ones that need addressing.

It is often said that suicide causes huge amounts of pain to those who are left behind, but while it is undoubtedly true that losing a loved one is a bad experience, does suicide itself add to that, thus making it worse than a natural death? If so, to what extent? And how much of that additional suffering is due to the circumstances of suicide (e.g returning home and seeing your son hanging from the ceiling)? Also, how much of that pain is due to suicide being "sudden", as in happening without loved ones having the time to prepare mentally for the loss?

Because if the answer to latter two questions is "a lot" or "a significant amount", then those problems can at least be mitigated by the compromise of a waiting period, at the end of which the suicidal person might even decide to stay alive. That's because a prison becomes home when you have the key, and this forum would become unnecessary if we had at least that possibility.

That would be a win win situation, and yet, if what I said above is true, pro-lifers are causing more pain not only to suicidal people, but to themselves, which would be quite ironic.

I could say this is what many of them deserve, but at least with a waiting period concerns about people being pressured into killing themselves would be vastly mitigated, and such a compromise might be necessary to give people the legal option of a peaceful death.

I think there are multiple factors that do make it worse than losing a loved one to outside factors. In terms of suddenness that's not limited to or always true of suicide so I'm hesitant to label that as a primary difference.

I would imagine there's a guilt component- the thought that it wasn't inevitable and that you maybe could have stopped it. That it wasn't just the world being unfair in the same way that death tends to be. I don't think that's generally an accurate representation of the situation- there isn't always something that can be done about it and it's rarely all the fault of any one person- but I understand why people would feel that way.

To combat that there would have to be a shift in how we as a collective view suicide. Personally I think waiting periods and being aware could help with a bunch of the problems, although I don't think it'd address every issue. There has been more moves to allow medical assistance in dying which gives me hope that we're slowly moving in that direction.

 

[Arihman]

I think there are multiple factors that do make it worse than losing a loved one to outside factors. In terms of suddenness that's not limited to or always true of suicide so I'm hesitant to label that as a primary difference.

I would imagine there's a guilt component- the thought that it wasn't inevitable and that you maybe could have stopped it. That it wasn't just the world being unfair in the same way that death tends to be. I don't think that's generally an accurate representation of the situation- there isn't always something that can be done about it and it's rarely all the fault of any one person- but I understand why people would feel that way.

To combat that there would have to be a shift in how we as a collective view suicide. Personally I think waiting periods and being aware could help with a bunch of the problems, although I don't think it'd address every issue. There has been more moves to allow medical assistance in dying which gives me hope that we're slowly moving in that direction.

No, but I think knowing in advance that your loved one is going to die is better than finding his/her corpse, say, hanging from the ceiling without having been able to even say goodbye to that person, something that could be avoided with a waiting period, as in that scenario you could just tell your family and friends what you're going to do in advance without fearing they or the police could stop you.

A waiting period would also make it more likely that some people would find life tolerable enough due to it being a choice, and not an obligation.

This would also mean you would respect their autonomy while sparing the pain of loss at least to some families. In other words, if all that is true, pro-lifers are imbeciles who are shooting themselves in the foot with their support to coercive prevention models. I could say that's good, because they are motherfuckers who deserve to be tortured, but this would throw suicidal people under the bus, so it's better to reach a compromise.

 

[chloramine]

No, but I think knowing in advance that your loved one is going to die is better than finding his/her corpse, say, hanging from the ceiling without having been able to even say goodbye to that person, something that could be avoided with a waiting period, as in that scenario you could just tell your family and friends what you're going to do in advance without fearing they or the police could stop you.

A waiting period would also make it more likely that some people would find life tolerable enough due to it being a choice, and not an obligation.

This would also mean you would respect their autonomy while sparing the pain of loss at least to some families. In other words, if all that is true, pro-lifers are imbeciles who are shooting themselves in the foot with their support to coercive prevention models. I could say that's good, because they are motherfuckers who deserve to be tortured, but this would throw suicidal people under the bus, so it's better to reach a compromise.

Oh I 100% agree it would help with multiple things (such as the ones you listed above). Medical aid in dying does a ton to help address problems with death, within the realm of suicide especially (and outside of that in terms of more humane end of life options) and I'm personally in favour of it for the reasons you pointed out and beyond.

I was trying to address the question of why suicide specifically might be harder than regular death. I imagine it also varies from person to person of course, it was more thoughts on potential reasons uniquely common to suicide than a disagreement.

 

[Arihman]

Oh I 100% agree it would help with multiple things (such as the ones you listed above). Medical aid in dying does a ton to help address problems with death, within the realm of suicide especially (and outside of that in terms of more humane end of life options) and I'm personally in favour of it for the reasons you pointed out and beyond.

I was trying to address the question of why suicide specifically might be harder than regular death. I imagine it also varies from person to person of course, it was more thoughts on potential reasons uniquely common to suicide than a disagreement.

I was thinking more about suicide as a negative right than something the state should provide you. The point is simply not interfering with the person's freedom to choose death, in the sense that, at the end of the waiting period, you would simply be allowed to buy drugs from a private vendor, or use the suicide booth without further interference. Framing it as a negative right is also meant to address concerns that state sanctioned death could be used to weed out certain categories, such as people with disabilities. This article goes more in-depth about this matter (I also recommend reading the rest of the blog): https://schopenhaueronmars.com/2022...rights-and-the-cruelty-of-suicide-prevention/

That said, I can imagine it would be somewhat more painful for those who remain to see a loved one die by suicide because, as some people on Reddit argued, loved ones might feel guilty, or think that their love wasn't enough to keep someone they cared about alive. But, as for the latter, we know love can't save you, and in general it is advised not to seek a relationship to fix you. Now, I can agree to a large extent with that idea (I do have a few problems with it, but that's not the point right now), but if we accept that as a truth for non-suicidal people seeking love, I don't see why it shouldn't apply in the case of suicidal people, where it is actually more difficult to solve their situation, especially when considering that bad is stronger than good.