What if Elon Musk is right? What if we are all living in a simulation?

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Whoever programmed it did a shit job then!

 

[jbear824]

Elon Musk is a stupid, worthless dumbass who should be thrown into a volcano. Nothing he says is of any value, just like him. I would gladly push him in and not feel a single ounce of regret or remorse. Fuck him.

 

[needthebus]

just because

There could never be any reason why any intelliegence would intentionally simulate this meaningless universe and life. there is no intelligent design . this is reality not a simulation.

The only reason humans think there is meaning or that they should do anything is because evolution and culture has programed them to think that.

Much less to simulate it to such infinite detail. for example there are 5 quintillion subatomic particles in an animal cell. an animal cell has thousands of machines and molecular processes. 30 trillion of these human cells in a human. A human also has 30 trillion bacteria and other microorganisms inside and on the individual.

There is no objective purpose or reason to this universe , life, Earth etc.

There could be no incentive or motive to create this meaningless universe , life , much less for such unfathomable costs of time energy effort resources , cost for no purpose .

The computer and or computer resources could not be possible to simulate even the Earth much less the universe. an animal cell has quintillion of sub atomic particles. all would have to be simulated and their interactions for billions of years , again for what reason? A human has 30 trillion cells . x a quintillion subatomic particles. for what purpose would some imaginary intelligent beings embark on such a gargantuan effort ,unfatthomable cost and computer resources to simulate meaningless garbage that is this life and universe? what kind of computer would be able to store all this data, code for trillions of years ?

such an effort to make errorless code trilloins of lines of code for what ? there is inherent many errors in even 1000 lines of code.

The space between star systems the Sun and the next star is 25 trillion miles . all this has to be simulated, again for what ?

to get some idea of how big a trillion is :


this bostrom doesn't understand cost benefit analysis nor computer resources. so only this bostrom is right all of science and realtity is not really reality it's a computer simulation so says another primate called bostrom. i think not. i'll never believe that simulation stuff especially to that detail especially with zero evidence. same as religion. no evidence intelligent design.

just because you feel the universe is meaningless doesn't mean other people feel that way

your reasoning is "i feel the universe is meaningless, therefore advanced societies with advanced technologies would realize that, therefore the simulation hypothesis is invalid"

i am not saying that life is meaningful, but i am saying the logical conclusion that "the universe is in fact meaningless therefore people would have no reason to engage in simulations" doesn't really seem logical to me. if you look at today's society, people play video games all the times which are simulations

i realize it would seem like a lot of effort to simulate complex societies, but if in the middle ages you discussed chips with millions of transistors and gigabytes of data for digital programs you would get the same "why would people do that?" response

i am not saying it's the right thing to simulate reality, just that it isn't as improbable inherently as your analysis suggests and there are valid reasons to believe it could be possible

 

[4everHeartBroken]

Where is the proof , or any evidence or even reason for a simulation? There is none no reason , no evidence nothing

After hundreds of years of humans and scientists trying to figure out the universe and no evidence for a simulation , afterlife or none of these theories given without any observing any phenomena at all.

Who or what would simulate something for what purpose ? ...... Where are the details of a simulation? Saying something in language in one sentence is totally meaningless without a book of details to back it up . " We are living in a simulation" who created it . For what purpose . How did they do it etc .

Why would they simulate something to the level of trillions to the quadrillion power of detail?

For example, there are around 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms in a grain of sand.

Imo that's just another ridiculous idea thought up by another human just like an afterlife reincarnation. . Where are the details ? These ideas violate all science, feasibility , viability and practicality.

An afterlife is even easier to debunk. What is the power source of a soul?

I love your answer… and I want it SO BADLY to be what happens to me when I leave this Earth. But the fact that we only have five senses terrifies me! Metaphysics scares me. The "Many Worlds" theory scares me! Dark matter, black holes and photons fascinate me but are also extremely terrifying because I just want to be gone… like FOREVER! I love your example with how many atoms are in a single grain of sand. That's comforting to me. I just don't want to exist anymore.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

just because

just because you feel the universe is meaningless doesn't mean other people feel that way

your reasoning is "i feel the universe is meaningless, therefore advanced societies with advanced technologies would realize that, therefore the simulation hypothesis is invalid"

i am not saying that life is meaningful, but i am saying the logical conclusion that "the universe is in fact meaningless therefore people would have no reason to engage in simulations" doesn't really seem logical to me. if you look at today's society, people play video games all the times which are simulations

i realize it would seem like a lot of effort to simulate complex societies, but if in the middle ages you discussed chips with millions of transistors and gigabytes of data for digital programs you would get the same "why would people do that?" response

i am not saying it's the right thing to simulate reality, just that it isn't as improbable inherently as your analysis suggests and there are valid reasons to believe it could be possible

Simulating reality is impossible especially by a computer. A computer can execute only one instruction at a time.

A human has 30 trillion cells. Each cell is a universe . They keep finding smaller and smaller particles. a Cell is like a universe to an atom. atom is like a universe to the smallest particles found.

how would a computer simulate the smallest particle of space or space or an electron? it can't even do that


Lets take a simpler example trying to simulate the actions of 8 billion humans at the same time . So each computer simulates a human ( that is impossible see below ) every micro second. so then the computer has to update the state of 8 billion humans every 1/1000th of second and communicate all those changed states to all other 8 billion or to a single memory which is impossible. and then communicate update,coordinate that with and save all the other data in the universe.

A computer can execute only one instruction at a time , for example update only one memory location at a time.

but it's much more data than 8 billion humans because each human is 30 trillion cells, 7*1027 atoms (that's a 7 followed by 27 zeros!) . and there are other species. how is the state of each atom updated so fast 7 followed by 27 zeros times 8 billion humans every what 1 millonth of a second. there hasn't been found a limit to the smallest particles or time unit.

what is the smallest unit of time, of space, the smallest particle to simulate? all unanswerable.

What is the CPU of a computer supposed to simulate a molecule , an electron which can't be simulated for many reasons.

Could scientists perfectly simulate the entire universe in a computer, down to the last atom?

No. Even with an incredibly powerful computer, scientists could never perfectly simulate the entire universe in a computer. There are a few reasons...

www.wtamu.edu

What is to be simulated by a computer? Lets say one computer tries to simulate a single human cell. The cell has thousands of machines and chemical processes interacting with each other. At what time are the states of each molecule in the cell updated? each billionth of a second ? a single computer would have to update each molecule every billionth of a second then coordinate all the septillion interactions between cellular machines and molecules

A CPU core can only execute one instruction at a time. It will not execute the next instruction until it finishes executing the current one.

computers are over rated, the new silicon idol. so is human intelligence .

Clearly academic university philospher Bostrom has no idea how a computer works. Bostrom is not the only one right and every human's intuition research, observations and experiments are wrong. Bostrom is Just trying to publish and sell books.

I'm just touching on this . I'm a computer programmer. i could write many more pages on why it's impossible to simulate reality. reality is reality .

 

[lex]

Who cares about what some elite says? He's just repeating the "simulation hypothesis", which has existed long way before this guy was even born.

 

[needthebus]

Simulating reality is impossible especially by a computer. A computer can execute only one instruction at a time.

A human has 30 trillion cells. Each cell is a universe . They keep finding smaller and smaller particles. a Cell is like a universe to an atom. atom is like a universe to the smallest particles found.

how would a computer simulate the smallest particle of space or space or an electron? it can't even do that


Lets take a simpler example trying to simulate the actions of 8 billion humans at the same time . So each computer simulates a human ( that is impossible see below ) every micro second. so then the computer has to update the state of 8 billion humans every 1/1000th of second and communicate all those changed states to all other 8 billion or to a single memory which is impossible. and then communicate update,coordinate that with and save all the other data in the universe.

A computer can execute only one instruction at a time , for example update only one memory location at a time.

but it's much more data than 8 billion humans because each human is 30 trillion cells, 7*1027 atoms (that's a 7 followed by 27 zeros!) . and there are other species. how is the state of each atom updated so fast 7 followed by 27 zeros times 8 billion humans every what 1 millonth of a second. there hasn't been found a limit to the smallest particles or time unit.

what is the smallest unit of time, of space, the smallest particle to simulate? all unanswerable.

What is the CPU of a computer supposed to simulate a molecule , an electron which can't be simulated for many reasons.

Could scientists perfectly simulate the entire universe in a computer, down to the last atom?

No. Even with an incredibly powerful computer, scientists could never perfectly simulate the entire universe in a computer. There are a few reasons...

www.wtamu.edu

What is to be simulated by a computer? Lets say one computer tries to simulate a single human cell. The cell has thousands of machines and chemical processes interacting with each other. At what time are the states of each molecule in the cell updated? each billionth of a second ? a single computer would have to update each molecule every billionth of a second then coordinate all the septillion interactions between cellular machines and molecules

A CPU core can only execute one instruction at a time. It will not execute the next instruction until it finishes executing the current one.

computers are over rated, the new silicon idol. so is human intelligence .

Clearly academic university philospher Bostrom has no idea how a computer works. Bostrom is not the only one right and every human's intuition research, observations and experiments are wrong. Bostrom is Just trying to publish and sell books.

I'm just touching on this . I'm a computer programmer. i could write many more pages on why it's impossible to simulate reality. reality is reality .

This shows a limited understanding of both computers and time. Time just exists in the direction of entropy since change cant exist unless disorder increases. Consequently time has a direction because it can only be perceived one way, but that doesn't mean all calculations have to be calculated in real time. If a computer took 100 years to calculate 1 second of interactions in a simulation, to an observer of the simulation it would not seem like 100 years, it would seem like 1 second.

 

[needthebus]

Simulating reality is impossible especially by a computer. A computer can execute only one instruction at a time.

A human has 30 trillion cells. Each cell is a universe . They keep finding smaller and smaller particles. a Cell is like a universe to an atom. atom is like a universe to the smallest particles found.

how would a computer simulate the smallest particle of space or space or an electron? it can't even do that


Lets take a simpler example trying to simulate the actions of 8 billion humans at the same time . So each computer simulates a human ( that is impossible see below ) every micro second. so then the computer has to update the state of 8 billion humans every 1/1000th of second and communicate all those changed states to all other 8 billion or to a single memory which is impossible. and then communicate update,coordinate that with and save all the other data in the universe.

A computer can execute only one instruction at a time , for example update only one memory location at a time.

but it's much more data than 8 billion humans because each human is 30 trillion cells, 7*1027 atoms (that's a 7 followed by 27 zeros!) . and there are other species. how is the state of each atom updated so fast 7 followed by 27 zeros times 8 billion humans every what 1 millonth of a second. there hasn't been found a limit to the smallest particles or time unit.

what is the smallest unit of time, of space, the smallest particle to simulate? all unanswerable.

What is the CPU of a computer supposed to simulate a molecule , an electron which can't be simulated for many reasons.

Could scientists perfectly simulate the entire universe in a computer, down to the last atom?

No. Even with an incredibly powerful computer, scientists could never perfectly simulate the entire universe in a computer. There are a few reasons...

www.wtamu.edu

What is to be simulated by a computer? Lets say one computer tries to simulate a single human cell. The cell has thousands of machines and chemical processes interacting with each other. At what time are the states of each molecule in the cell updated? each billionth of a second ? a single computer would have to update each molecule every billionth of a second then coordinate all the septillion interactions between cellular machines and molecules

A CPU core can only execute one instruction at a time. It will not execute the next instruction until it finishes executing the current one.

computers are over rated, the new silicon idol. so is human intelligence .

Clearly academic university philospher Bostrom has no idea how a computer works. Bostrom is not the only one right and every human's intuition research, observations and experiments are wrong. Bostrom is Just trying to publish and sell books.

I'm just touching on this . I'm a computer programmer. i could write many more pages on why it's impossible to simulate reality. reality is reality .

Just because you can't conceive of the enormous calculations being done to simulated a system doesn't mean they couldn't be done.

 

[Morte]

Because "non-EXISTENCE" in itself is a contradiction. If nothing exists then nothing exists, but nothing can't exist, so how does nothing exist? If nothing exists, there is no concept of nothing or existence. So it's technically impossible for nothing to actually exist. "Nothing" can't exist. That's why non-existence is impossible.

Abstract concepts do not apply to your logic, such as being conscious or not being conscious. Fictional concepts, feelings, future and past, for example. If the world ends today, billions of people will not become conscious, even if their atoms already exist out there. Instead of trying to understand "nothing" in the literal sense of the word, try to understand it as a state.

 

[Justnotme2]

There's no reproducible experimental evidence for any simulation, after life nothing except for evolution. There is mountains of evidence for evolution.

There is nothing after Death, Only non-existence forever. All of us didn't exist for 13.8 billion years before we were born . It will be like that again after death non-existence forever.

I don't get it why humans think that a brain that can suffer unbearable constant long lasting pain is something good , a beautiful gift , something important enough to simulate. What that is to me is an extreme horror an unfathomable abomination a nightmare beyond imagination

Imo all every human is that first DNA chemical reaction, that first cell but only with the added extreme abomination of a brain that can suffer unbearable constant long lasting pain for no reason...

There is not a single piece of evidence for any simulation, afterlife , god , reincarnation, magic, nothing only massive mountains of evidence for evolution that show what a human is

Every detail billions of details of science ,tech, knowledge all futher cross confirm evolution is true . For example every page of a molecular cell biology textbook or of a brain science book etc

This theory may be correct. But nothing can be said as long as you have a brain, as long as you are human and as long as you are alive. I think so.
No matter how true the information may seem, everything can be completely different in the end

 

[xxRoro]

Love to talk about those topics but this fits more in "off-topic" channel?!

Elon has said a few times that life is possibly/probably a simulation:

Some call the programmer behind our simulation god. And when human reach the point when AI gets real self awareness and a physical body aren't we their gods then?

 

[untothedepths]

The guy who wants to just have children just because also is telling me the world is a simulation? Yeah, sure.

 

[alltoomuch2]

I think it is very possible, or alternatively that we are observed and sometimes affected by a much higher more intelligent being. For example if I was watching an ants nest, sometimes putting obstacles in the way or generally making things difficult for the ants, those ants would not have any concept of me and my intelligence and how complicated human lives are. What if we are the ants? Scientists are so confident that they understand the concept of life the universe and everything, but then when challenged about space being infinite or how there was nothing or where everything started, even before the big bang, they swerve the question, saying we just can't conceptualise that, even tho it's true. So how do they know we aren't ant equivalents or in a simulation because we wouldn't be able to conceptualise that either. What happens to us after we die? From people's descriptions of what happens when their heart stops but then they are resuscitated, it seems like everything goes black, they feel complete peace, then nothing. But I also can't understand how your "soul" for want of a better word just stops forever. It's just so weird that a collection of cells, fluids and chemicals which are a human can have things like emotions, senses, character, make decisions. But now I'm going off at a tangent. I could think about this for hours, and often do. But I'm not afraid of death or what comes after, if anything. I am afraid of dying - pain, consequences if I don't die.

Simulating reality is impossible especially by a computer. A computer can execute only one instruction at a time.

A human has 30 trillion cells. Each cell is a universe . They keep finding smaller and smaller particles. a Cell is like a universe to an atom. atom is like a universe to the smallest particles found.

how would a computer simulate the smallest particle of space or space or an electron? it can't even do that


Lets take a simpler example trying to simulate the actions of 8 billion humans at the same time . So each computer simulates a human ( that is impossible see below ) every micro second. so then the computer has to update the state of 8 billion humans every 1/1000th of second and communicate all those changed states to all other 8 billion or to a single memory which is impossible. and then communicate update,coordinate that with and save all the other data in the universe.

A computer can execute only one instruction at a time , for example update only one memory location at a time.

but it's much more data than 8 billion humans because each human is 30 trillion cells, 7*1027 atoms (that's a 7 followed by 27 zeros!) . and there are other species. how is the state of each atom updated so fast 7 followed by 27 zeros times 8 billion humans every what 1 millonth of a second. there hasn't been found a limit to the smallest particles or time unit.

what is the smallest unit of time, of space, the smallest particle to simulate? all unanswerable.

What is the CPU of a computer supposed to simulate a molecule , an electron which can't be simulated for many reasons.

Could scientists perfectly simulate the entire universe in a computer, down to the last atom?

No. Even with an incredibly powerful computer, scientists could never perfectly simulate the entire universe in a computer. There are a few reasons...

www.wtamu.edu

What is to be simulated by a computer? Lets say one computer tries to simulate a single human cell. The cell has thousands of machines and chemical processes interacting with each other. At what time are the states of each molecule in the cell updated? each billionth of a second ? a single computer would have to update each molecule every billionth of a second then coordinate all the septillion interactions between cellular machines and molecules

A CPU core can only execute one instruction at a time. It will not execute the next instruction until it finishes executing the current one.

computers are over rated, the new silicon idol. so is human intelligence .

Clearly academic university philospher Bostrom has no idea how a computer works. Bostrom is not the only one right and every human's intuition research, observations and experiments are wrong. Bostrom is Just trying to publish and sell books.

I'm just touching on this . I'm a computer programmer. i could write many more pages on why it's impossible to simulate reality. reality is reality .

Our technology couldn't simulate life maybe. But if there is a higher life form than us, it's not impossible.

 

[M48 Patton]

Well if it is a simulation most of us here got the real sh*tyy end of the stick, in fact it's more sh*t than stick.

Personally he is talking rubbish. At least in my opinion.

But another theory and concept to mull over is worth having

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

This shows a limited understanding of both computers and time. Time just exists in the direction of entropy since change cant exist unless disorder increases. Consequently time has a direction because it can only be perceived one way, but that doesn't mean all calculations have to be calculated in real time. If a computer took 100 years to calculate 1 second of interactions in a simulation, to an observer of the simulation it would not seem like 100 years, it would seem like 1 second.

A computer can only do one simple thing at a time. A computer cannot do a trillion trillion to the trillionth power things at the same time .

Human body contains 30 trillion cells all are copying DNA, converting energy from ATP and hundreds of other processes , in each cell at the same time all this is happening at the same time . A computer could never know all the knowledge and do the changes at the same time.

The information is only known to each individual cells. no computer could get all the information from every cell and process as to what stage of the process of DNA copying it is in for example and then make additional required changes .

human body contains about 1.5 x 10^28 electrons. that's a 1.5 with 28 zeros electrons . each is moving updating at the same time.
And that is just in one human not to mention the 8 billion humans and their cells and atoms are also changing at the same time.

who is observing or changing all these cells , and 8 billion humans each with 30 trillion cells and all these electrons at the same time? no one. no one could . no single computer could. even if there were 30 trillion computers they couldn't coordinate al their changes and update all the other computers at the same time.

A computer cannot even simulate a single cell, nor a single electron. nor atom . what is an atom how is it simulated . the smallest unit of time found is zeptazecond the smallest particle found yet a lepton

it boggles my mind that Bostrom and religionists think that a central programmer or central computer or central god could possibly control numbers so large a trillion to the trillionth power different changing entities at the same time that are all changing at the same time . and for what purpose? it's not possible . then not feasible . then for no reason to do such detail but it's not possible . what if all these cells molecules reacted by themselves independently and produced other changes such as DNA , other outcomes which of course are meaningless to me anyway. but humans don't realize that these things seem to mean something because evolution and culture programmed that meaning and desire for action.

This is going on in every one of your 30 trillion cells now at the same time and real speed is in the middle of the video they slowed it down. and also in 30 trillion times 8 billion humans . no computer could control all those manufactures at the same time. not even in one cell .

what is space, an electron a cell. a computer could never simulate even a single one of these

 

[4everHeartBroken]

Holy crap! That's a good answer! I'm starting to agree that information is just that… information. There's no consciousness in machines, just programmed knowledge and information. I doubt that a human being could possibly create consciousness through a computer… ever. It's not physically possible. So perhaps I answered my own question. Your info is appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Morte]

A computer can only do one simple thing at a time. A computer cannot do a trillion trillion to the trillionth power things at the same time .

Human body contains 30 trillion cells all are copying DNA, converting energy from ATP and hundreds of other processes , in each cell at the same time all this is happening at the same time . A computer could never know all the knowledge and do the changes at the same time.

The information is only known to each individual cells. no computer could get all the information from every cell and process as to what stage of the process of DNA copying it is in for example and then make additional required changes .

human body contains about 1.5 x 10^28 electrons. that's a 1.5 with 28 zeros electrons . each is moving updating at the same time.
And that is just in one human not to mention the 8 billion humans and their cells and atoms are also changing at the same time.

who is observing or changing all these cells , and 8 billion humans each with 30 trillion cells and all these electrons at the same time? no one. no one could . no single computer could. even if there were 30 trillion computers they couldn't coordinate al their changes and update all the other computers at the same time.

A computer cannot even simulate a single cell, nor a single electron. nor atom . what is an atom how is it simulated . the smallest unit of time found is zeptazecond the smallest particle found yet a lepton

it boggles my mind that Bostrom and religionists think that a central programmer or central computer or central god could possibly control numbers so large a trillion to the trillionth power different changing entities at the same time that are all changing at the same time . and for what purpose? it's not possible . then not feasible . then for no reason to do such detail but it's not possible . what if all these cells molecules reacted by themselves independently and produced other changes such as DNA , other outcomes which of course are meaningless to me anyway. but humans don't realize that these things seem to mean something because evolution and culture programmed that meaning and desire for action.

This is going on in every one of your 30 trillion cells now at the same time and real speed is in the middle of the video they slowed it down. and also in 30 trillion times 8 billion humans . no computer could control all those manufactures at the same time. not even in one cell .

what is space, an electron a cell. a computer could never simulate even a single one of these

A computer wouldn't need to simulate every atom to create a convincing simulation, just making you think it's real would be enough. In the Matrix, the simulation created by the machines does not simulate every atom and cell from our world, but those who are trapped inside the Matrix believe that it is real because visually it is identical to reality and feels real. It is not difficult to deceive the human brain, our brain is stupid, easy to be illusioned.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

A computer wouldn't need to simulate every atom to create a convincing simulation, just making you think it's real would be enough. In the Matrix, the simulation created by the machines does not simulate every atom and cell from our world, but those who are trapped inside the Matrix believe that it is real because visually it is identical to reality and feels real. It is not difficult to deceive the human brain, our brain is stupid, easy to be illusioned.

why is a rat like me so important. my brain cell / nerve cell is the same brain cell as in a fly or rat. who would care what i think or to spend trillion to the quadrillion computer power watts and resources to fool me ? i'm just a brain that can suffer extreme pain which is real. who programed the universe so a rat / fly like me could experience it. so i'm real and the other 8 billion humans aren't real and each's 30 trillion cells are not real all being each simulated ? no they are as real as i am .and the millions of bugs are real, the cells and a brain just like me also experiencing reality and are observers each so each would need to be simulated which i showed is impossible to simulate all at the same time by a computer . no everything is real every one of the 8 billion humans , trillions of insects fish bacteria are observers and interactors with other atoms . every insect , cell , human , atom , electron , peice of infinitismal space would need to be simulated and changed at the same time by a single computer which is impossible .. every atom is an interactor. Every time scientists probe anywhere they find atoms smaller sub atomic particles with electron microscopes . so all these scientists and their probes and instruments are not real? anyone can look at a microscope and see more and more sub parts worlds there . trillions to the trillionth power atoms . if i look at a microscope and see the millions of microorganisms in a jug of pond water those would have to be simulated as if you took one and did it there at the same time : no single computer could simulate all the activities cells of all 8 billion humans much less all the atoms in the seemingly infinite universe. the universe seems infinitely large and so far infinitely small as far as they've been able to measure they keep finding smaller and smaller particles measurements of space etc. and as far as they've been able to measure outward the universe seems infinitely larger. the James web telescope is not a simulation to fool me . not it's real . so are the atom smashers , electron microscopes etc. all the atoms in the infinite universe would have to be changed at the same time by a single computer which is impossible especially in an infinite universe.

the next nearest star is 25 trillion miles away . that's nothing in the universe's scale . a trillion is nothing in the numbers i am talking about how large and small the universe is, how many atoms in a human



why do people want to believe things with no evidence and that it has to have a cause that some "intelligent" being programmed as if that were possible. it seems very similar to religion and intelligent design. humans are programmed by evolution and culture / society to think crap that has no meaning does have meaning like killing an animal because you are hungry as hell. evolution programmed hunger. culture programmed other false crap like that " life is important" belief and many others.

it seems obvious to me when ai advances more intelligent than a dumb human ape like me they will see this universe nothing has meaning even less than many of us humans already do. and we have a bias of evolution making us think life humans food nature is good important and culture / media /society hypertrophies a lot of those to the millionth power . ai will not have desires nor hunger nor needs so they will see this as having even less meaning as intelligence rises which is why there hasn't been a peice of evidence of any inteligent civilization in the universe it's because they realize there is no meaning which is logical as they become more intelligent . i'm a dumb chimp monkey and i already and many too see nothing matters much less trying to simulate / duplicate this torture dumb meaningless universe.


Where is this programmer? who is this programmer? no evidence anywhere of any simulation . anywhere they probe they find more and more sub parts smaller and smaller more complexity .look outward and see more and more infinity . there is not a peice of evidence for any civilization anywhere in the universe ever no intelligence no technology other than created by humans on Earth.

I'm super intelligent "let me program primates that can suffer extreme pain" why? why why? there is no reason

 

[lonely and depresse]

What if reality is just an illusion? Then what happens to us after suicide? Your thoughts?

I think we will wake up in an another universe

 

[Morte]

why is a rat like me so important. my brain cell / nerve cell is the same brain cell as in a fly or rat. who would care what i think or to spend trillion to the quadrillion computer power watts and resources to fool me ? i'm just a brain that can suffer extreme pain which is real. who programed the universe so a rat / fly like me could experience it. so i'm real and the other 8 billion humans aren't real and each's 30 trillion cells are not real all being each simulated ? no they are as real as i am .and the millions of bugs are real, the cells and a brain just like me also experiencing reality and are observers each so each would need to be simulated which i showed is impossible to simulate all at the same time by a computer . no everything is real every one of the 8 billion humans , trillions of insects fish bacteria are observers and interactors with other atoms . every insect , cell , human , atom , electron , peice of infinitismal space would need to be simulated and changed at the same time by a single computer which is impossible .. every atom is an interactor. Every time scientists probe anywhere they find atoms smaller sub atomic particles with electron microscopes . so all these scientists and their probes and instruments are not real? anyone can look at a microscope and see more and more sub parts worlds there . trillions to the trillionth power atoms . if i look at a microscope and see the millions of microorganisms in a jug of pond water those would have to be simulated as if you took one and did it there at the same time : no single computer could simulate all the activities cells of all 8 billion humans much less all the atoms in the seemingly infinite universe. the universe seems infinitely large and so far infinitely small as far as they've been able to measure they keep finding smaller and smaller particles measurements of space etc. and as far as they've been able to measure outward the universe seems infinitely larger. the James web telescope is not a simulation to fool me . not it's real . so are the atom smashers , electron microscopes etc. all the atoms in the infinite universe would have to be changed at the same time by a single computer which is impossible especially in an infinite universe.

the next nearest star is 25 trillion miles away . that's nothing in the universe's scale . a trillion is nothing in the numbers i am talking about how large and small the universe is, how many atoms in a human



why do people want to believe things with no evidence and that it has to have a cause that some "intelligent" being programmed as if that were possible. it seems very similar to religion and intelligent design. humans are programmed by evolution and culture / society to think crap that has no meaning does have meaning like killing an animal because you are hungry as hell. evolution programmed hunger. culture programmed other false crap like that " life is important" belief and many others.

it seems obvious to me when ai advances more intelligent than a dumb human ape like me they will see this universe nothing has meaning even less than many of us humans already do. and we have a bias of evolution making us think life humans food nature is good important and culture / media /society hypertrophies a lot of those to the millionth power . ai will not have desires nor hunger nor needs so they will see this as having even less meaning as intelligence rises which is why there hasn't been a peice of evidence of any inteligent civilization in the universe it's because they realize there is no meaning which is logical as they become more intelligent . i'm a dumb chimp monkey and i already and many too see nothing matters much less trying to simulate / duplicate this torture dumb meaningless universe.


Where is this programmer? who is this programmer? no evidence anywhere of any simulation . anywhere they probe they find more and more sub parts smaller and smaller more complexity .look outward and see more and more infinity . there is not a peice of evidence for any civilization anywhere in the universe ever no intelligence no technology other than created by humans on Earth.

I'm super intelligent "let me program primates that can suffer extreme pain" why? why why? there is no reason

the image from a microscope could just be a specific visual simulation for that event. Just like in dreams, you can dream that you are looking into a microscope to see many bacterias, though its nothing more than a visual simulation created by your brain.
It wouldn't be difficult to simulate something like this for beings that are millions of years more advanced than us.
My point is that its not necessary to simulate every atom to create a convincing simulation that can deceive your mind. People can believe in any fabrication as long as it is convincingly impressed on their minds.

You also have no way to prove that all the people around you are real or just NPCs in a simulation. Just because you talk to them and they seem real doesn't mean they are real. In fact, everything we understand as real is nothing more than brain stimulation, so there is no way to prove that everything around us is real. The only thing you can, objectively, prove is real is your own consciousness, "for if I think, therefore I am"

I don't believe in the theory that we live in a simulation, as you said, there is no proof of anything, but also no proof that the theory is wrong. All we have is lack of evidence.

 

[thealteredmind]

we are in a simulation that very soon it's going to create its own simulation. inside that simulation, people will grow and eventually create another simulation. inside that, people will also create their own simulation.

and so.

and so.

 

[4everHeartBroken]

why is a rat like me so important. my brain cell / nerve cell is the same brain cell as in a fly or rat. who would care what i think or to spend trillion to the quadrillion computer power watts and resources to fool me ? i'm just a brain that can suffer extreme pain which is real. who programed the universe so a rat / fly like me could experience it. so i'm real and the other 8 billion humans aren't real and each's 30 trillion cells are not real all being each simulated ? no they are as real as i am .and the millions of bugs are real, the cells and a brain just like me also experiencing reality and are observers each so each would need to be simulated which i showed is impossible to simulate all at the same time by a computer . no everything is real every one of the 8 billion humans , trillions of insects fish bacteria are observers and interactors with other atoms . every insect , cell , human , atom , electron , peice of infinitismal space would need to be simulated and changed at the same time by a single computer which is impossible .. every atom is an interactor. Every time scientists probe anywhere they find atoms smaller sub atomic particles with electron microscopes . so all these scientists and their probes and instruments are not real? anyone can look at a microscope and see more and more sub parts worlds there . trillions to the trillionth power atoms . if i look at a microscope and see the millions of microorganisms in a jug of pond water those would have to be simulated as if you took one and did it there at the same time : no single computer could simulate all the activities cells of all 8 billion humans much less all the atoms in the seemingly infinite universe. the universe seems infinitely large and so far infinitely small as far as they've been able to measure they keep finding smaller and smaller particles measurements of space etc. and as far as they've been able to measure outward the universe seems infinitely larger. the James web telescope is not a simulation to fool me . not it's real . so are the atom smashers , electron microscopes etc. all the atoms in the infinite universe would have to be changed at the same time by a single computer which is impossible especially in an infinite universe.

the next nearest star is 25 trillion miles away . that's nothing in the universe's scale . a trillion is nothing in the numbers i am talking about how large and small the universe is, how many atoms in a human



why do people want to believe things with no evidence and that it has to have a cause that some "intelligent" being programmed as if that were possible. it seems very similar to religion and intelligent design. humans are programmed by evolution and culture / society to think crap that has no meaning does have meaning like killing an animal because you are hungry as hell. evolution programmed hunger. culture programmed other false crap like that " life is important" belief and many others.

it seems obvious to me when ai advances more intelligent than a dumb human ape like me they will see this universe nothing has meaning even less than many of us humans already do. and we have a bias of evolution making us think life humans food nature is good important and culture / media /society hypertrophies a lot of those to the millionth power . ai will not have desires nor hunger nor needs so they will see this as having even less meaning as intelligence rises which is why there hasn't been a peice of evidence of any inteligent civilization in the universe it's because they realize there is no meaning which is logical as they become more intelligent . i'm a dumb chimp monkey and i already and many too see nothing matters much less trying to simulate / duplicate this torture dumb meaningless universe.


Where is this programmer? who is this programmer? no evidence anywhere of any simulation . anywhere they probe they find more and more sub parts smaller and smaller more complexity .look outward and see more and more infinity . there is not a peice of evidence for any civilization anywhere in the universe ever no intelligence no technology other than created by humans on Earth.

I'm super intelligent "let me program primates that can suffer extreme pain" why? why why? there is no reason

I appreciate your detailed answer. I'm very skeptical of anything "woo woo" and it sounds like a super computer controlling the world is perhaps the latest "woo woo" or religion. Life is just so DEPRESSING! It's no wonder us humans make up everything! Reality is depressing.

 

[vadim]

I wouldn't take anything that moron says too seriously. He has an extremely inflated view of his own intelligence.

 

[4everHeartBroken]

just because

just because you feel the universe is meaningless doesn't mean other people feel that way

your reasoning is "i feel the universe is meaningless, therefore advanced societies with advanced technologies would realize that, therefore the simulation hypothesis is invalid"

i am not saying that life is meaningful, but i am saying the logical conclusion that "the universe is in fact meaningless therefore people would have no reason to engage in simulations" doesn't really seem logical to me. if you look at today's society, people play video games all the times which are simulations

i realize it would seem like a lot of effort to simulate complex societies, but if in the middle ages you discussed chips with millions of transistors and gigabytes of data for digital programs you would get the same "why would people do that?" response

i am not saying it's the right thing to simulate reality, just that it isn't as improbable inherently as your analysis suggests and there are valid reasons to believe it could be possible

Love this answer! Simulation theory actually terrifies me. If someone is controlling my life, then that "someone" is EXTREMELY CRUEL. I hope simulation theory and even the Many Worlds Theory is NOT true. I love hearing the latest theories, but sometimes they just terrify me. Forever nothingness isn't scary to me at all.

I can only live in reality (no religion, no reincarnation, no many-worlds, no woo-woo that's supposed to be comforting. I can't get my brain to believe in stuff like that. It's depressing but it's reality. We grow inside our mothers womb, we are born, mature to adulthood, some procreate, we start loosing our facalties, then we die. Period. That is the closest thing to believing in anything that I believe. Trying to believe in anything else just makes me feel insane.

 

[needthebus]

A computer can only do one simple thing at a time. A computer cannot do a trillion trillion to the trillionth power things at the same time .

Human body contains 30 trillion cells all are copying DNA, converting energy from ATP and hundreds of other processes , in each cell at the same time all this is happening at the same time . A computer could never know all the knowledge and do the changes at the same time.

The information is only known to each individual cells. no computer could get all the information from every cell and process as to what stage of the process of DNA copying it is in for example and then make additional required changes .

human body contains about 1.5 x 10^28 electrons. that's a 1.5 with 28 zeros electrons . each is moving updating at the same time.
And that is just in one human not to mention the 8 billion humans and their cells and atoms are also changing at the same time.

who is observing or changing all these cells , and 8 billion humans each with 30 trillion cells and all these electrons at the same time? no one. no one could . no single computer could. even if there were 30 trillion computers they couldn't coordinate al their changes and update all the other computers at the same time.

A computer cannot even simulate a single cell, nor a single electron. nor atom . what is an atom how is it simulated . the smallest unit of time found is zeptazecond the smallest particle found yet a lepton

it boggles my mind that Bostrom and religionists think that a central programmer or central computer or central god could possibly control numbers so large a trillion to the trillionth power different changing entities at the same time that are all changing at the same time . and for what purpose? it's not possible . then not feasible . then for no reason to do such detail but it's not possible . what if all these cells molecules reacted by themselves independently and produced other changes such as DNA , other outcomes which of course are meaningless to me anyway. but humans don't realize that these things seem to mean something because evolution and culture programmed that meaning and desire for action.

This is going on in every one of your 30 trillion cells now at the same time and real speed is in the middle of the video they slowed it down. and also in 30 trillion times 8 billion humans . no computer could control all those manufactures at the same time. not even in one cell .

what is space, an electron a cell. a computer could never simulate even a single one of these

You are misapplying ideas of time and computer science to the simulation hypothesis.

Let's say I am doing a simulation of a tennis game called pong.

If I am doing a simulation of pong and you are watching in real time, the computations need to be quick enough that you can play the game in real-time without being bored. If it takes 100 days for the ball to go from one side to another, it would be boring to play.

If a simulated reality or simulated game is not played in real-time, there is no reason why the calculations can't be done slowly.

You're logic is: "There are too many caculations! A computer cannot do a trillion trillion to the trillionth power things at the same time."

So let's say you're right and a computer can only do 100 calculations per second.

It has to model DNA, the planet, 10 humans, and 1000 Non-Playing Characters.

For each thing on that list, it takes 100 Trillion ^100 Trillionth Power Calculations per second.

It doesn't matter.

First, it does the DNA calculations, which take an incredibly number of years to model 1 second.

Next it does the planet.

Next it does 10 humans.

Next it does 1000 Non Playing Characters.

It has taken a very, very long time, but the computer has now modeled 1 second of time. Then it goes onto model the second-second.

There is no reason a simulation would need to be simulated in real-time. If the concern is that people would want to simulate reality in real-time, the simulation could interface with a human to determine what path they would take, then calculate it, and then have the human experience it later.

Time is just something that is a matter of perspective. It isn't actually real and only entropy is real. Time is just something we use to measure things because we experience entropy. You are looking at this incorrectly.

Even if you say "Oh, people would want to simulate reality only in real-time," there's still no reason why a simulation would need to simulate everything. Do you think all DNA would need to be simulated? All things outside of the most important data to be simulated? There are even scientists who have postulated that some of the experimental results that tend to show the universe prefers to not do calculations unless they are needed (a sort of "laziness to calculate" to conserve something possibly or perhaps just the nature of things) suggest that we are in a simulation that is trying to reduce the number of calculations done for the simulation to occur, and suggest that wouldn't happen in a non-simulation. (This idea may not be rigorously scientific.)

You're looking at this completely wrong. Elon Musk is annoying because he's judgmental towards trans people and doesn't always seem kind. He's not an idiot and the simulation hypothesis is credible, although possibly wrong.

 

[Edpal247]

Bummer for him - he really isn't some rich dude with 12 kids.

 

[4everHeartBroken]

Love to talk about those topics but this fits more in "off-topic" channel?!

Some call the programmer behind our simulation god. And when human reach the point when AI gets real self awareness and a physical body aren't we their gods then?

I believe simulation theory is different than Artificial Intelligence, which we create.
But yes! I do fear AI's becoming indistinguishable from humans at some point.

 

[everythingblack]

Even if we were, there is no real way to know. Even dying wouldn't be an escape from the simulation.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

You are misapplying ideas of time and computer science to the simulation hypothesis.

Let's say I am doing a simulation of a tennis game called pong.

If I am doing a simulation of pong and you are watching in real time, the computations need to be quick enough that you can play the game in real-time without being bored. If it takes 100 days for the ball to go from one side to another, it would be boring to play.

If a simulated reality or simulated game is not played in real-time, there is no reason why the calculations can't be done slowly.

You're logic is: "There are too many caculations! A computer cannot do a trillion trillion to the trillionth power things at the same time."

So let's say you're right and a computer can only do 100 calculations per second.

It has to model DNA, the planet, 10 humans, and 1000 Non-Playing Characters.

For each thing on that list, it takes 100 Trillion ^100 Trillionth Power Calculations per second.

It doesn't matter.

First, it does the DNA calculations, which take an incredibly number of years to model 1 second.

Next it does the planet.

Next it does 10 humans.

Next it does 1000 Non Playing Characters.

It has taken a very, very long time, but the computer has now modeled 1 second of time. Then it goes onto model the second-second.

There is no reason a simulation would need to be simulated in real-time. If the concern is that people would want to simulate reality in real-time, the simulation could interface with a human to determine what path they would take, then calculate it, and then have the human experience it later.

Time is just something that is a matter of perspective. It isn't actually real and only entropy is real. Time is just something we use to measure things because we experience entropy. You are looking at this incorrectly.

Even if you say "Oh, people would want to simulate reality only in real-time," there's still no reason why a simulation would need to simulate everything. Do you think all DNA would need to be simulated? All things outside of the most important data to be simulated? There are even scientists who have postulated that some of the experimental results that tend to show the universe prefers to not do calculations unless they are needed (a sort of "laziness to calculate" to conserve something possibly or perhaps just the nature of things) suggest that we are in a simulation that is trying to reduce the number of calculations done for the simulation to occur, and suggest that wouldn't happen in a non-simulation. (This idea may not be rigorously scientific.)

You're looking at this completely wrong. Elon Musk is annoying because he's judgmental towards trans people and doesn't always seem kind. He's not an idiot and the simulation hypothesis is credible, although possibly wrong.

A computer can only execute one instruction at a time. The only way reality could work is by trillion trillion individual independent agents each acting on it's own interacting with others. a single computer could never create all the actions the agents are taking at the same time. for example there are 8 billion humans on this tiny planet . Each is doing something different at this time . a single computer could not simulate each action which is a universe itself at the same time. The thought that i'm having at this micro-second is different from what you and 8 billion others are . a human can think at least 1500 words per minute. a computer could never run each humans actions and point of view at the same time. my finger is reaching for the keyboard as you are doing something else 1000's of miles away.

a single computer would have to be able to change every entity in the universe every electron every human at the same time and know all the changed information that happens at the same time for example what i'm thinking and you are thinking at the exact same moment , know all the information from all parts of the universe from septilions of changing agents at the same time : this is impossible.

each individual human is composed of 30 trilion human cells . every cell is huge factory a universe itself . the cell is copying DNA, creating many proteins , getting energy AtP hundres of processes at the same time each cell is doing , many process are going inside machines inside the cell at the same time. then the cell is composed of quadrillions of atoms with electrons . each electron is an entity , each moleccule an entity an agent . each molecule like a human is interacting with other entities / agents. the computer would have to similuate each electron and it's movement around the atom it's interaction with space other particles etc. at the same time simulate ( no create) and control each of septillion of electrons in a human or cell all at the same time then on the 8 billion humans .


I think it's a common falacy to think that a single god, single computer , single intelligent being has to run manage everything from the top down from a single point . that as i tried to show is impossible. simpler agents like molecules interact with others and form more complex interactions and structures from the ground up. this is how life started. it's a common antropocentric falacy to think that only the vaunted Human intelligence or human like intelligence could create , manage and run all reality. when it's impossible for a single intelligent entity to do anything other than work on one single thing at a time .

It's like one human trying to run all the tasks that every human is doing all 8 billion at the same time . a human couldn't ever it's impossible for a human to do even 2 tasks at the same time. same for a computer . the human intelligence is much weaker than people are taught to believe. the only way a human can get anything done is by working on one thing for at least a few hours straight every day a single task a single non trivial problem or goal

below is ahow a computer can simulate an image on a screen. it only requires a very small data a few numbers to do that. the human it simulates is 8 trillion cells each interacting , trillion trillion molecules , 39 trillion bacteria inside the human. . of course more numbers to create more resolution. but to a human they can say that is a woman or a picture of a woman. it's not . it's numbers in computer memory copied to the screen as pixels. you can see the image of a woman is represented / similuated with just numbers. this is explained in the link below. more pixels / squares and higher resolution so that it looks like photo but if you look closer it looks like this pixalated and you can see each quare is just a very weak low resultion of reality . it's an illusion not real reality.

How Does the Machine Read Images and Use them in Computer Vision?

Before we look deeply into how machines read images and use them in computer vision, it’s important to underst

www.topcoder.com

I'm a computer programer . i know all the work that a computer has to do to update a single pixel on a screen. many asembly language instructions. It's very difficult to write code. there are a number of inherent bugs / errors in every 1000 lines of code in existence.



i'm just touching on this . this shows there is no god / programmer / computer that is managing controlling creating every interaction in the universe at the same time because that is impossible for a single entitity to do .

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

What if reality is just an illusion? Then what happens to us after suicide? Your thoughts?

Then why does he have to be a huge dick????