What happens after suicide, from an Out Of Body traveler's perspective

[alexit]

lol.
it's a candystore/pleasue island theory of the afterlife.
'you'll have whatever you wish and whatever your heart desires...'

there are other realms according to buddhism, realm of gods, demi-gods, animals, ghosts, hells...You don't have to be reborn as a human.

I do agree with this yes

And in Buddhism, a person can be reincarnated in more than one person at a time. Like when the Dalai Lama dies the search will begin for his reincarnation, and people who were born before he died may be considered. It might seem like bullshit to you; I'm just sharing information.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Sometimes you can be actually dead and then come back to life.

I don't know if that's possible.
Being 'declared dead' and really being dead are two different things.
If you came back to life then you were never really dead. It's biologically impossible to be really dead but then come back to life.

And in Buddhism, a person can be reincarnated in more than one person at a time

I didn't know this.
It just all sounds so far-fetched though.

 

[alexit]

I don't know if that's possible.
Being 'declared dead' and really being dead are two different things.
If you came back to life then you were never really dead. It's biologically impossible to be really dead but then come back to life.

I didn't know this.
It just all sounds so far-fetched though.

I am Buddhist but in this instance I'm just passing along info. Trivia if you will. I admit it sounds far fetched.

 

[Didymus]

"I have researched the afterlife for many years"

How does one research the afterlife, by reading experiences and watching videos ?

 

[esse_est_percipi]

"I have researched the afterlife for many years"

How does one research the afterlife, by reading experiences and watching videos ?

chinese whispers, hearsay, guesswork, wishful thinking and reading secondhand accounts of secondhand accounts of hallucinations.

 

[alexit]

Just wanted to add incidental point that something can be researched indirectly, like the way we study blackholes. We know they exist by studying things around it. It's impossible to study directly. If there is an afterlife I think there would have to be at least indirect evidence. That being said, I don't believe in the afterlife.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Just wanted to add incidental point that something can be researched indirectly, like the way we study blackholes. We know they exist by studying things around it. It's impossible to study directly. If there is an afterlife I think there would have to be at least indirect evidence. That being said, I don't believe in the afterlife.

This is a good point. Not just indirect evidence for black holes, but we have never even observed atoms or subatomic particles, because they don't interact with visible light. We know they exist by studying their more large-scale effects.

 

[EternalDarkness]

There is only one way to find out what happens after death...

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

Thanks for this!

 

[AnnonyBox]

Sounds a lot like lucid dreaming and other such consciously induced hallucinations, in my opinion. I love the idea of a never ending lucid dream, but I unfortunately doubt such a thing exists.

 

[RedDEE]

Sounds a lot like lucid dreaming and other such consciously induced hallucinations, in my opinion. I love the idea of a never ending lucid dream, but I unfortunately doubt such a thing exists.

You're absolutely right. It's hallucinations caused by the brain. Your mind/soul/whatever doesn't leave your body during these perceived OBE events. And I'm personally somebody that has had OBE's. They're just lucid dreams on steroids.

When we die, we will go to a state that is better than a never-ending lucid dream. I'm talking about ultimate, eternal peace.

 

[Emily123]

i don't think some thing like that exists . Did anybody have out of body experience in the surgery time?the same thing is going to happen after death

 

[death137]

If this is true then I want to have OBE before I die. How can I do that?

 

[LenkaX]

When we die, we will go to a state that is better than a never-ending lucid dream. I'm talking about ultimate, eternal peace.

Yeah, I long for this eternal peace, the natural state in which I was millions years prior to my birth.

 

[RedDEE]

Yeah, I long for this eternal peace, the natural state in which I was millions years prior to my birth.

Me too, brother. Every single human being on this planet, deep in their hearts, yearns for this peace. We all want to go back home. Here's a song - It's a Christian song, but its really really really good,

 

[Lone_Gray_Wolf]

I need all of this to be true :(

I think same. I mean, I'm very skeptical when it comes to all of this sort of thing but I really wish something like the Summerlands or Astral Plain were real with total certain, then most of us just would CBT so fast out of this world, we could met each other in those plains, live the life we wanted in a fantasy world for example. Many possibilities, far from all this BS and pain.

I swear, if that was a total certain I would CBT so fast. And I think I wouldn't be the only one.

 

[BeenDoneForSoLong]

This is honestly just dangerously awful anti-science garbage in my opinion. You haven't done extensive research on the afterlife no more than I've done extensive research on big foot or aliens.

 

[Meditation guide]

All religions where invented to "Put the fear of God into you " so you can be controlled.

Strict Buddhists don't believe in God. They are athiests. Buddhists don't speak of God and realize we are put here to suffer. The purpose is to be enlightened so we do not have to keep being reborn. So we detach from everything very deliberately. And meditate.

If this is true then I want to have OBE before I die. How can I do that?

I have a suggestion. If they have the Slingshot ride where you live try that. Lots of people lose consciousness on that ride due to the extreme G forces. And when you lose consciousness that way you may very well find yourself on another planet. It's a very common "hallucination", one which I have had only it seemed very real.

 

[Toptock]

Oh man, "Summerland"
Don't get my hopes up lol

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

I don't know why this is a topic of debate. Even while alive we've all experienced moments when we lose consciousness and everything is a blank. Everything we FEEL and THINK is because of a very PHYSICAL brain. If the brain stops operating I don't think it's hard to know what happens when you die. Nothing.

Nothing happens when you die. No summerland, no hell, no fairies and pixies and dragons. This afterlife topic keeps coming up on SS and gets more magical every time. In my research, OBEs and NDEs are related to stress and chemical surges in the brain respectively. For example, @snowman626 said that sleep deprivation causes OBEs. I think @snowman626 and others use these fantasies as a way to accept the reality of death. If that is the case, I'd let them believe what they want. We all have our own process of preparing for ctb.

 

[Toptock]

Also just for my own curiosity, OP said they have done years of research, I'd like to see some works so we can read up on it as well.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Nothing happens when you die

The most you can say is that you don't know what happens. No one knows.

However, I happen to know that when you die you go to a magical four dimensional kingdom called 'bongcloud wrongcrowd land', with tesseracts, fractal rainbows, many-layered symmetrical pleasure islands spanning thousands of light years across, multicolored shape-shifting unicorns, pesky machine elves, wise mermaids living in upside-down seas, bouncing leprechauns as big as marshmallow man in ghostbusters forever moving towards quantum pots of gold, and translucent winged horses endlessly moving through iridescent klein bottles with goblin riders who sing kaleidoscopic shapes out of their mouths.

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

The most you can say is that you don't know what happens. No one knows.

OH, but we do know. Consciousness and personality has been directly linked to the brain. That's why various levels of brain damage can significantly affect memory and personality. At times people develop entirely different personalities. If consciousness was separate and survived death, this would not be the case. I get that it's hard to accept for some.

Weird attempt at humor.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

OH, but we do know. Consciousness and personality has been directly linked to the brain. That's why various levels of brain damage can significantly affect memory and personality. At times people develop entirely different personalities. If consciousness was separate and survived death, this would not be the case. I get that it's hard to accept for some.

Nope.

We don't know what consciousness really is.
Neuroscience has only really just got started as a discipline and doesn't even know how to ask the right questions about consciousness.

The hard problem of consciousness is no nearer to being solved than 20 years ago. There are many philosophical theories like epiphenomenalism, functionalism, neutral monism, reductive materialism (identity theory), property dualism, some philosophers are even still substance dualists.

There is also the philosophical position known as new mysterianism (colin mcginn, thomas nagel, roger penrose, noam chomsky), which in its most extreme form states that the true nature of consciousness can never be understood because of the paradoxical nature of the task-- the object of inquiry is the same as that which is inquiring into it, making it inherently unsolvable, .

Of course the brain plays some role in conscious experience, but the question is does it function more as a reducing valve or filter to a pre-existing (quantum?) consciousness, or is it more like a combustion engine which generates consciousness as a naturally emergent property?

Even matter, when you go deep enough, isn't really physical. It's about mathematics and forms and information and ideas.
And some physicists think that consciousness has a fundamental role to play at the quantum level in determining the properties of systems (e.g. copenhagen and von neumann-wigner ('consciousness causes collapse') interpretations of quantum mechanics). It's all still a mystery. No one really knows.

I get that it's hard to accept for some because people like to think that they know things which they don't or possibly can't know.

Weird attempt at humor.

Thanks very much.
May as well (unsuccessfully, obviously) try to be humorous before I leave this godforsaken planet.

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

There are many philosophical theories like epiphenomenalism, functionalism, neutral monism, reductive materialism (identity theory), property dualism, some philosophers are even still substance dualists.

This is what I expected you to present as valid arguments, philosophy and of course, unprovable quantum ideas. Here is some practical evidence that consciousness is entirely generated by the brain. If you're put under deep anaesthesia during surgery, you wake up recalling nothing, not even the passage of time. Some say it's like blinking. Again, if you starve the brain of oxygen for just long enough, the person becomes a vegetable incapable of performing all but the most basic biological functions. That's why we fear messing up ctb methods like hanging or CO.

If I hit you in the head hard enough, you don't go to summerland. You literally lose all awareness of reality until you wake up. That's not a philosophical theory, an ism, or quantum mumbo jumbo. That is a fact.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

practical evidence that consciousness is entirely generated by the brain. If you're put under deep anaesthesia during surgery, you wake up recalling nothing, not even the passage of time. Some say it's like blinking.

Of course!
You've solved the hard problem of consciousness. Why didn't anyone else think of that? Why are neuroscientists and philosophers of mind still researching into it, fumbling around in the dark and tentatively putting forward hypotheses and new models, etc?

This is what I expected you to present as valid arguments, philosophy

I'm not going to start getting into a long debate where I present every position and argument.
But philosophy is all about making valid arguments, so it is certainly a good place to start when attempting to inquire into something as seemingly intractable and mysterious as consciousness.

You literally lose all awareness of reality until you wake up. That's not a philosophical theory, an ism, or quantum mumbo jumbo. That is a fact.

There is certainly such a thing as losing consciousness or going to sleep and being unconscious, no one is disputing that. But no one is saying that the possibility of consciousness after death has to be predicated on consciousness being an uninterrupted single stream with no break when a person is alive.

And the copenhagen or von neumann-wigner interpretations of quantum mechanics as responses to the measurement problem are not 'quantum mumbo jumbo'. You'll find them in every theoretical physics course and textbook.

But I see that we're not really going to get anywhere with this. You think you know, and I think no one knows, what consciousness is and how it arises, and whether it can survive death.
And I do understand your points and agree that brain states are related to consciousness and emotions etc in this world.
Let's just leave it there.

p.s. I'm still pretty sure you go to bongcloud wrongcrowd land. lol

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

Of course!
You've solved the hard problem of consciousness. Why didn't anyone else think of that?

Thinly veiled sarcasm there. For a second I'd started to dream of the Nobel prize. Anyway, I also don't like long online debates where noone will even concede a point from the opposition. You're not my opposition. You're a potential fellow passenger on the bus. I don't claim to understand what consciousness is, but I do believe that it's a product of the brain ending at death. Pending convincing evidence to the contrary, of course.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

For example if your a Christian you will go to a "heaven" and meet Jesus, if you are Buddhist you will go to Buddhist heaven and meet Buddha, if you are muslim you will go to muslim heaven, and so on. Suicides who don't believe in any religion typically end up in "Summerland" which is basically just another type of heaven just without the messiah stuff, in this place you can manifest anything you want and live the life you always wanted to live. For people who are damaged this is also where you can receive healing and rest.

Summerland is like the Astral Plane which is where people who have OBEs typically go. It can resemble the physical earth with landscapes, buildings, people, nature, animals, etc. But if you hate the physical world then don't worry, because in the Astral Plane you can manifest anything you want. Just think it and it will appear, just like a dream world

If you don't want to come back you can stay in Summerland for the rest of eternity and have lots of fun. Or if you rather not exist at all you can go to sleep forever and nobody will stop you from doing that either, but maybe in a few million years you might wake up a little bit to decide if you want to get up and have some fun, if not then go back to sleep for another few million years, and so on.

This actually sound like Hansel and Gretel stuff.

It sounds like a lure, like the house deep in the woods made of gingerbread, candy and cakes, a magical delicious surprise...but it's inhabited by an evil cannibalistic witch. Beware...

Thinly veiled sarcasm there

There was no nastiness intended.

For a second I'd started to dream of the Nobel prize

lol

I don't claim to understand what consciousness is

Yes, I was wrong in saying that you claimed to know what it is. Just got carried away.

I also don't like long online debates where noone will even concede a point from the opposition

Same, especially on a forum like this, when people are obviously going through hard times.
But I did concede some ground in agreeing that the brain definitely has a role to play.

And I think we can agree that the magical fairy summerland where everyone has whatever they desire described in the OP is an implausible post-death scenario.
Though people are free to dream...

 

[snowman626]

Just chemicals in the brain firing off , a similar effect can be had by injecting or snorting chemicals too lol

I don't claim to understand what consciousness is, but I do believe that it's a product of the brain ending at death. Pending convincing evidence to the contrary, of course.

You clearly know very little about NDEs. In many cases the brain is completely dead, or that the part of the brain that allows for any conscious experience is dead and there's no possibility of any hallucinations, and so the whole "chemicals in the brain firing off" theory goes down the drain right there. Check out what this brain surgeon says at 4:10

Indeed all just theory but when people start building fantasy worlds in great detail it`s annoying and say "i was dead for 3 minutes and went here and there " when they where not fully dead otherwise they wouldn't be able to be revived .

The point is that they were fully dead and shouldn't be able to experience consciousness. Its only due to modern medical technology that they were able to be revived. Whether they were dead for 3 minutes or 30 years what difference does it make? Lets suppose we freeze dead people's corpses today, and then 30 years later scientists figure out a way bring them all back to life who then all describe the same experiences we hear from NDEs today. Would it make any sense to then say they were not fully dead for the last 30 years and that somehow their frozen corpses were just producing some imaginary fantasy afterlife world all this time?

Quite honestly I have never read so much nonsense in my life.

How little you know... NDEs is a big topic and its researched and supported by lots of highly educated people. You might want to expand your mind and look into it a bit more. Here is a video to get you started:

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Check out what this brain surgeon

Do you completely trust eben alexander? I mean, he's written bestselling books about 'proof of heaven' and goes round giving talks and speeches (probably very well paid) on the afterlife and stuff. Made a lot of money out of it all.

Also his description of his experience when he was supposedly braindead is just weird (a glistening meadow with folks dressed in old clothes laughing, being on the wing of a butterfly with a girl looking at him, music playing above etc). Sounds like the summerland wishful thinking of the OP.