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J

Jean Améry

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2019
1,098
The beauty of faith IS belief without evidence or proof.

I'd say that's the definition of faith. I wouldn't associate it with beauty per se nor do I see it as a virtue. To me accepting something as true without evidence amounts to the abdication of reason. That implies no value-judgement on anyone but it's something I would never even consider doing.

thank you for a good and civil discussion despite our disagreement.

Likewise. If there's one thing I believe in (pun intended) it's civil discours and discussion. Without disagreement there would hardly be any discussion and I like challenging myself by contrasting my own views with others' point of view. I may be old-fashioned in this regard but I value the art of rational debate and argumentation. Hopefully I'll learn something and even if that's not the case the exchange should be enjoyable.
 
N

NextBusLeaving

Specialist
Jun 24, 2019
334
I don't want to seem it like I gave up but well I have to give up at least for now. I'm too tired to continue this discussion I'm sorry.
Me too my friend, safe travels.
 
S

Steph123

Member
May 29, 2020
9
The best book I have read: Godless by Dan Barker.

"How an evangelical preacher became one of americas leading athiest."

Do yourself a favour.
 
A

ArtsyDrawer

Enlightened
Nov 8, 2018
1,438
If you squint really hard, you find some similaitires between the concept of God and the big bang theory.
  • I'm the beginning there was nothing except for one thing: an impossibly dense, impossibly hot, and impossibly heavy pile of matter, or God
  • Something happened: the pile of matter exploded, or God said "let there be light"
  • The universe got created: in God's case, in about a week, or over an unknown length of time as the pile of matter dissipated and chilled into the elements as we know them today.
  • The Earth was created, although God created it as his last thing, but it in BBT it popped up somewhere in the middle-ish, I'm guessing, along with life.
Now, this is an "infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters" kind of deal - mathematically speaking, monkeys could write out all of Shakespeare given enough monkeys, and typewriters, and somebody to gather and arrange the output.
Could one monkey do it? Again, yes, but for proper randomness, the chance for this would be something like c/a/b
Where A is the number of keys on a typewriter, and B is the number of letters in Shakespeare-ography. C is the number of monkeys.
Once we reach 1, the idea of typing out Shakespeare-ography is definitely plausible and may have already happened, and above 1 it definitely has happened, were just not sure which monkey did it.

With enough clashing atoms and enough clashing you could, hypothetically, create a living thing. That living thing could then evolve.
But then there's the question of an omnipotent, omnipresent creature of sort that creates universes.

What constitutes as a creature?
By my definition, a creature is something that dies in some form, lives in some form, feeds in some form, and can procreate in some form.
Unlike science, I believe a virus is a living creature, for example, because it attacks the body, multillies, feeds on whatever it attacks and can be killed by an immune system.
Sure, it does these things on autopilot and by sheer luck, but it does happen.
Can God exist by this definition?
  • God needs to be able to breed in some form. Doesn't matter how, it can even be mitosis. Can God breed? No scripture has claimed to see God breeding or mating as far as I know. Romans have documented Zeus having sex in various forms, but recreationally. Zeus does not NEED to mate.
  • God needs to able to feed. Again, Romans documented gods having feasts, again, recreationally. Roman gods don't NEED to feed.
  • God needs to be able to die. Once more, Romans and their gods dying and springing back to life on a nigh daily basis. Gods have died recreationally, and have also lived.
This is as far as I recall anyway.
Roman gods haven't ACTUALLY died, therefore I don't consider them to be creatures. They may or may not have created the world, but they were not living in said world, they don't existed in it.
By my forced studies of the Bible, the old testament also known as the Torah, God has never died, procreated, or eaten anything, not out of a need. Jesus needed to eat, was killed, and could procreate, although he was the son of God, not a God himself. He fits more into a "minor God" category. He did do miracles, but Jesus did not create the universe, God did.

With all this said, can God exist?
I don't know. There's not enough evidence. The old and new testaments end abruptly, the Quran does too, so there's no real closure on the matter.
Roman gods can hypothetically exist, but there's not enough evidence for me to firmly agree on that because as far as I know, they lived, ate, died, and procreated all recreationally. Again, no real need to do so.

To conclude: maybe yes, maybe no. I'll figure that out when I'm dead.

Edit: as to what I think about the bastard? Well, he's been trying to kill me for the past 15 years or so. Not good things.
 
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Skathon

Skathon

"...scarred underneath, and I'm falling..."
Oct 29, 2018
575
...which one? There are usually two or more (50+?) in every religion.
 
A

AnxietyAttack44

I just wanna go to my husband already.
Jun 5, 2020
1,092
Might be different but i believe in god. I pray to him every day to end my life and misery,hopefully one day soon he responds and grants me eternal peace so i dont have to. He might have bad ways but atleast dead ones dont feel no more pain, hopefully, since my dad and husband died in alot of pain due to hospitals neglect in both cases.
Atleast god removes pain as you start dieing and puts you unconscious. Even if it might be his choice they got sick, atleast last moments were painless, since husband felt nothing after being resuscitated 3 times. This comforted me.
Doctors certainly did not try to stop pain or help. No offense to anyone here, its just few bad apples and me being bitter.

Even if he put me in this life i still love god. I need him. Nobody else is here for me anymore. Husband didnt doubt god untill very last moment either, so i respect that too. Gotta believe, right
 
Arrow

Arrow

Rewrite
May 1, 2020
769
Might be different but i believe in god. I pray to him every day to end my life and misery,hopefully one day soon he responds and grants me eternal peace so i dont have to. He might have bad ways but atleast dead ones dont feel no more pain, hopefully, since my dad and husband died in alot of pain due to hospitals neglect in both cases.
Atleast god removes pain as you start dieing and puts you unconscious. Even if it might be his choice they got sick, atleast last moments were painless, since husband felt nothing after being resuscitated 3 times. This comforted me.
Doctors certainly did not try to stop pain or help. No offense to anyone here, its just few bad apples and me being bitter.

Even if he put me in this life i still love god. I need him. Nobody else is here for me anymore. Husband didnt doubt god untill very last moment either, so i respect that too. Gotta believe, right
are you religious, or do you just think there's a god out there somewhere?
 
A

AnxietyAttack44

I just wanna go to my husband already.
Jun 5, 2020
1,092
I am religious, yes so was my husband. My parents never were. My husband liked to question things but he still believed. There is god out there if you ask me, because even in this situation, i do get answers to my questions.
Cringy as it sounds i pray to him to help me set up my suicide, ask and youll be given. I have no ways othervise, not allowed to leave house or order. But there is random man who just buys me sn, antacids and anematics at the same day,right after i cry to god to kill me already. I even got methylene blue somehow just in case

Not sure how to feel either somehow, its confusing. Mixed messages or funny joke. But atleast i got all i need. Nowi just need courage.

In short, in my opinion. There is god heaven and hell. Not in bible way. A bit different, less strict. Its alot of people and only 1 god. He does screw up, i cant even track 6 dogs on my own. But he does try to make it up as well from what ive seen. Eventualy.
My country has a saying. God is slow, but just. But very slow.
 
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P

Pan

Paragon
Oct 24, 2019
914
Thank you for asking

Well, the truth is that I come from a place where they instill a lot of God and his love in me, I don't believe in what everyone talks about, because they always make me see a God who punishes me if I make mistakes, they make me see that I must always be perfect that I cannot be wrong that I cannot be bad. You know I prefer to create my own image of God and this is that God is someone I can trust, I do not know if he exists or not but in my head even if I do not respond, in my head I tell what happens to me with others, what bothers me and everything, I do not respond but I feel better to tell things to something or someone who does not know if I listen or not, but at least not defame or disclose what I say, which would happen if I tell someone else.

My image consists of thinking that this guy has a great love for me, so much that he can even be stupid and forgive the times I fall, because it's difficult to be a human being, and nobody would believe me, he asks to be born but you are already alive, what else can you do besides living, with all the shit of life, but living because you are already here and there are things in the world that you like and you shouldn't stop looking for the path that will lead you to them, even if there are people who hate you, you also hate people.
I want to and I think he lets me fall and he picks me up when I ask him to, not when he wants to, because if I ask him to, I'm supposed to really want to get up.
For the human being to live a good life (which I think many seek but give up after a few falls) he needs spirituality, whether he believes in the force of the universe or Buddha or whatever, but he needs it because he needs to feel hope, he needs not to feel alone with many burdens of life, he needs supernatural support that pushes him to believe that everything can be fine and that he must go on but he no longer finds an engine to continue, because the support offered by humans is limited.
Finally, what I want to achieve is that I hope to believe in the image of God created by me, because in this way I hope and try to live my little and short life well, because there are many things that I love, well also many that I hate and the problems that are never missing but it does not matter. For example, even if it sounds ridiculous, I love ice cream, and I don't think anyone knows or is sure that it continues after life, so why harm existence by thinking of a God or those who hate me or those who fuck up my life, it doesn't matter if I send everything to the devil for what I like.
We can't harm our existence because of those who have hurt us, who knows what shit they are also fucked up with and we can't blame anyone for our existence, you're already
Here, enjoy the short time you have. The force you give to the universe that's what you get.

P.S. I think I overreacted, sorry.
I also add, I don't speak English, I use the translator and I apologize.
I received a request for a private chat from you and was prepared to respond.
 
E

ERASED

Student
May 17, 2020
132
express yourself without censorship!
As you wish!
I don't believe in God because if there was a God....he wouldn't have let me be born into this fucked up world and or have made a fucked up world.
I think he was manmade. I don't think he exists. How would any human know of a godly presence in heaven?

And as another user pointed out. Why would a god make a world as cruel as this one? The whole concept of God makes no sense to me.
I agree 1000%
 
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P

Pan

Paragon
Oct 24, 2019
914
I believe in godhead, not god in a personal sense; reincarnation is the answer. We evolve in cyclical terms—-heaven, hell are concepts devised to make us think/behave in a regimented way. Hinduism teaches that reincarnation is inevitable; there is no other way. Fortunately, you have reached the apex of evolution, that is, human. When you reincarnate, you will do so as a HUMAN. Specifically, you will always be human, even after death, whatever that is. You WILL be born again as YOU. For further
confirmation of this process, please seek out biocentrism as articulated by Robert Lanza. Death IS an illusion. On a humorous note, Lanza hi self constructed a gravestone with the words"here lies absolutely NO ONE.
 
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Sprite_Geist

Sprite_Geist

NULL
May 27, 2020
1,531
I'm indifferent when it comes to God.

There are so many horrific things in the world, but no presence of a divine creator. I think this means that God/Gods exist but don't care to help, or they just don't exist at all. Either way we are on our own.

Plus it depends on what you mean by "God". I don't think of God in the usual (religious) sense - like a magical infinite man in the sky... Not that there's anything wrong with that. To me, if God exists, he/she/it is simply a living being that is more powerful than us, but not invincible. Like the G-Man or the Q.
 
P

Pan

Paragon
Oct 24, 2019
914
Try to conceive of nothingness; you can't no matter how hard you try. This is because nothingness does not exist; your consciousness is the end all and be all of all things. You have lived trillions of times AS YOU, you will live as you trillions of times over AS YOU. I do not believe in karma following you into the next life; were that true you would make no mistakes, which is impossible. Mistakes without success cannot logically exist, or there would be no success by which we measure our mistakes. I do not believe in karma in your future life. We pay for karma NOW, not later. When we die, the karmic bill is marked PAID IN FULL. On to the next life, as certainly as the sun rises and sets everyday.
Try to conceive of nothingness; you can't no matter how hard you try. This is because nothingness does not exist; your consciousness is the end all and be all of all things. You have lived trillions of times AS YOU, you will live as you trillions of times over AS YOU. I do not believe in karma following you into the next life; were that true you would make no mistakes, which is impossible. Mistakes without success cannot logically exist, or there would be no success by which we measure our mistakes. I do not believe in karma in your future life. We pay for karma NOW, not later. When we die, the karmic bill is marked PAID IN FULL. On to the next life, as certainly as the sun rises and sets everyday.
 
lostundead

lostundead

Student
Mar 18, 2021
192
I believe god is necessary and religion gives more freedom than it takes from people.
 
M

MaxX0X

Member
Apr 11, 2021
15
express yourself without censorship!
As you wish!
I'm a practicing Christian.

I see man's existence as an impossibility yet we're here. So I can't explain everything including God. I just know I'm empty during the point in my life when I've abandoned my faith.
 
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UseItOrLoseIt

UseItOrLoseIt

1O'8
Dec 4, 2020
2,214
Sing in the style of Janis Joplin

God is just another word for nothing left to say.
 
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eclipse

eclipse

Member
Apr 14, 2021
38
I believe there is no god. But if anybody finds comfort, solace, help in their belief I'm not going to dissuade them. Just to be clear, I've seen cases where religion seemed harmful, notably in my own family. Still I believe I understand how belief can be comforting to some. I don't feel like I have a right (or reason) to interfere with that.
 
Bergamot

Bergamot

Sorry babe i love you..
Jan 25, 2021
125
hellraiser iv GIF
 
suffocatingseraphim

suffocatingseraphim

⸙𖦹killing the self as to protect it from harm𖦹⸙
Feb 6, 2020
105
I feel as though God is something that does and does not exist.
I'm agnostic for the most part, but I believe in energies and some other energies or powers. Maybe if there was a god or multiple gods, they left us a while ago.

I also think that god may just be a concept created by man to comfort us with what we didn't know, then it became something to adhere to since we didn't know how the stars were sewn into the skies, or how the sun rises and sets each day. So humans told stories. For some, I think it's wonderful they can have something that gives them comfort and a sense of direction and love, but I don't enjoy those who use god as an excuse or a tether to horrible things, thoughts, and actions.

Just like most ancient stories, I think some of the motive and truth to the origins of god and their beliefs became skewed more and more over time from a lot of the Catholic church (mostly in the western churches.) Personally I'm not sure that a god does exist, at least one that's all loving and forgiving who seeks to remove all harm or ailments from any living creature- the natural cycle of the world will cause harm, and humans intentionally seek to harm others or create chaos and hatred in the name of themselves.

To a degree, spirituality is one thing that could explain any holy or unearthly happenings some people have experienced? The human spirit is a pretty powerful and incredible thing, maybe if enough people believe in this gigantic energy with enough love and hope, they can create their own form of it with one another, or experience that otherwordly love and awakening in themselves. To me, god and whatever lower power like the devil? They're the same. The good comes with the bad, and humans have tenacity to curate both.
 
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sp1rlfern

sp1rlfern

he/him
Apr 8, 2024
6
I think through out the years people started minimalize God (/gods) and the concept of divinity. God is often described with all these very human qualities (kind, smart, wise, cruel) in a human -looking figure. If people would grasp divinity better, they would understand that the way they will view God or their chosen deity will always be off, due to the human mind being far lesser than anything divine. The name itself "God", his vision, the religion, His beliefs…etc carry different names, but they are all human given. Just labels for people to talk about Him and spread His message (/ them, their message, it works with most religions tbh) but the actual true form will always remain unknown to human kind, because we are not meant to grasp their true form.

This way God has been humanized. Ergo no longer divine nor infinite and definitely not powerful enough to be The Creator.

If people cannot understand this simple fact (that His figure and way we understand it will always be wrong), then they could as well be praying to humanity itself.
 

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