What do you think is the worst an individual can do?

[noname223]

Hitler: Starting a world war with million of deaths and committing an industrialised genocide

Epstein: being a pedocriminal, doing sex trafficking of minors, raping minors

764 community members: blackmailing minors into commmiting suicide by self-immolation and into self-mutilation

Here comes one question: Has Hitler killed anyone in the holocaust with his own hands? I think he rather directed the industrial genocide.

What is worse killing innocent people with your own hands or killing a way higher number of people indirectly for example by spreading a hateful ideology?

Is it unethical to even compare such crimes against humanity? Well, per definition Epstein did not commit a crime against humanity considering it was not committed in a war. Language matters.
I think we all can agree these people are monsters.

To which points do motivation play a role? Personally, I can rather understand a father who kills the rapist of his daughter than a sadist who tortures innocent victims over decades just for fun.

I have a weird relation to death which deviates from the one of other people. I think being a sadist who tortures people over decades is a worse than being a murderer who kills his victims without much pain involved. However, from the legal perspective murder is a way worse crime than torture without death.

Even when I was in better shape I always thought. If I died immediately all my problems were solved. There would be no pain for me after death. The biggest problems would emerge for my loved ones to cope with the loss. But for me I actually could not care less whether I simply stop existing if death was fast. There was no pain involved. The irony is people who think like probably experience a lot of pain in their life. And they experience if they want to end their lives on their own there will be a lot of pain involved.

For some people we on SaSu are the most rotten part of the internet. So perspectives play a role.

 

[FoxSauce]

Lie and manipulate for personal gain. Abuse bullying ect

There's a bunch more but Im too lazy to type

 

[TBONTB]

Hitler: Starting a world war with million of deaths and committing an industrialised genocide

Epstein: being a pedocriminal, doing sex trafficking of minors, raping minors

764 community members: blackmailing minors into commmiting suicide by self-immolation and into self-mutilation

Here comes one question: Has Hitler killed anyone in the holocaust with his own hands? I think he rather directed the industrial genocide.

What is worse killing innocent people with your own hands or killing a way higher number of people indirectly for example by spreading a hateful ideology?

Is it unethical to even compare such crimes against humanity? Well, per definition Epstein did not commit a crime against humanity considering it was not committed in a war. Language matters.
I think we all can agree these people are monsters.

To which points do motivation play a role? Personally, I can rather understand a father who kills the rapist of his daughter than a sadist who tortures innocent victims over decades just for fun.

I have a weird relation to death which deviates from the one of other people. I think being a sadist who tortures people over decades is a worse than being a murderer who kills his victims without much pain involved. However, from the legal perspective murder is a way worse crime than torture without death.

Even when I was in better shape I always thought. If I died immediately all my problems were solved. There would be no pain for me after death. The biggest problems would emerge for my loved ones to cope with the loss. But for me I actually could not care less whether I simply stop existing if death was fast. There was no pain involved. The irony is people who think like probably experience a lot of pain in their life. And they experience if they want to end their lives on their own there will be a lot of pain involved.

For some people we on SaSu are the most rotten part of the internet. So perspectives play a role.

This is a lot of thinking about pain and death. The darkness "shines" through

 

[lasttogo]

I find this question hard to answer. Objectively I think the answer is taking someone else's life without their consent. I think about how traumatizing murder victims last moments must be, and it makes me want to sob for them.

More personally, I have been the most traumatized by people who pretend to be something they are not, for the sole purpose of personal gain. I don't mean pretending to like baseball lol. I mean pretending to love someone purely for money , connections, things like that.

 

[princexhhn]

The common ground for this is just : cause harm to others

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's a difficult thing to quantify or compare. I suppose the logical answer would be, the more people a person harms, the worse the offense. I think there's something especially heinous about those who harm children- because that person's entire life will now be tainted by trauma. I suppose when the motives were entirely selfish too, we feel all the more angry.

I'd have to agree, that I do tend to see some perpetrators as monstrous- Hitler, Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell too though- it's utterly monstrous to conceive of a women procuring young girls to be abused. Jimmy Saville but similarly- the people and institutions that enabled his behaviour.

Here though, I'd be interested to refer to other threads on the forum concerning determinism:

If things like addiction, suicidality, narcissism etc. are diseases, why are peoplemso judgmental then?

I do actually agree that huge amounts of blame does lie with our culture, our upbringing, our shitty circumstances. I try not to blame and judge culture, upbringing etc. either. The way I am cannot be linked directly to one person. Some have said I became bad at math as a kid later because of...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Is there a legitimate argument that we are all simply the by products of our genes, upbringings, life experiences? In which case, can we hold people to blame and, should we be calling them 'monsters'?

Again, I think it depends on just how bad their crimes were in relation to how bad their own circumstances were. Not that it excuses everything of course but, the idea of mitigating circumstances is interesting.

Ever heard of the Menendez brothers case? They were convicted of killing their parents. However, it later emerged that their father had supposedly submitted both of them to years of emotional and sexual abuse.

Personally though, I think we need to be encouraged to take individual responsibility in society. Therefore, I think people should be held to account when they commit heinous acts. I do understand determinism may be relevant but, I don't see it as an excuse necessarily.