what do you guys think happens after death?

[Freedomindeath4me]

There has never been any evidence that anything metaphysical exists. Only the physical, and material.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Nothing existed before something existed. Why assume that there is nothing beyond our present perception?

 

[Jumper Seoirse]

There are 1000's of books, documentaries, and movies of supernational events so the possibility of something after death to me is a possibility but if we are eternal beings of energy and light, maybe it does make sense to have a Time Out Button, https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/time-out-button-for-12-hours-only.65720 so maybe we hit the TOB and it gives us a break for 20, 50 or 100 years.

I like to think after we die we will be a higher being of energy and light where we all meet up and rather than discuss our life, we can merge and experience each other's lives.

But if that has happened previously I have no memories, but even if there is nothing, we don't exist anymore, there's no pain or suffering, and it's game over so I am just as happy and it's going to happen sooner or later, naturally or by my own hand.

Cheers

Jumper Seoirse

 

[Red Scare]

You should read about the concept of pure lands in buddhism like sukhavati, Amitabha Buddhas pure land. All religions have similar concepts of death not being the end of life. Theres alot of studies about nde's and consciousness not being localised.

Personally I believe our soul/mind continues like buddhism says. And I pray I can reborn in a pure land like sukhavati. Thats why praying to Amitabha Buddha. So I do believe in reincarnation and it makes sense to me personally.

Buddhism certainly does have a conception of nothing at the end of life, Nirvana. Anatman, non being.

So does Hinduism.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Yeah, it kind of is. We have no evidence we're not living in the matrix, we have no evidence that a biblical god didn't create all this in 7 days, we have no evidence this isn't a turtle's dream floating through space. There's lots of things it could be, but whatever is going on, the evidence we have is indistinguishable from a world that is based in material science. So unless this is a computer simulation that is indistinguishable from a material universe, or god is a trickster god and created a universe that appears to be 14 billion years old, then we have to go with the evidence. Because even if it is a computer simulation, the parameters of such are indistinguishable from a material universe, so you still live your life as if that is true, most people not on sasu don't go jumping off tall buildings, they eat, they avoid things that will kill them, because for all intents and purposes we live in a material universe and most people's actions are consistent with that, even if they believe in heaven or something. The evidence is to strong.

Why do you think that is?

Nothing existed before something existed.

There was no "before" something existed, space/time were began with the Big Bang. It doesn't make sense to speak of a "before" space/time. Stephen Hawking has written about that.

Why assume that there is nothing beyond our present perception?

Because of a complete lack of evidence got the contrary.

You have all the opinions about life after death, people who CTB with kids, people who CTB with spouses, people who CTB on pogo sticks, which, hey, totally awesome for you, but please stay in your lane and let other people have their beliefs about what is (or isn't) coming.

Thanks.

You can believe whatever the fuck you want, I answered the op.

Nothing I have said here isn't true. If you want to believe what you want in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, go ahead.

 

[lonerclown666]

We not longer be aware of nothing

 

[Freedomindeath4me]

Yeah, it kind of is. We have no evidence we're not living in the matrix, we have no evidence that a biblical god didn't create all this in 7 days, we have no evidence this isn't a turtle's dream floating through space. There's lots of things it could be, but whatever is going on, the evidence we have is indistinguishable from a world that is based in material science. So unless this is a computer simulation that is indistinguishable from a material universe, or god is a trickster god and created a universe that appears to be 14 billion years old, then we have to go with the evidence. Because even if it is a computer simulation, the parameters of such are indistinguishable from a material universe, so you still live your life as if that is true, most people not on sasu don't go jumping off tall buildings, they eat, they avoid things that will kill them, because for all intents and purposes we live in a material universe and most people's actions are consistent with that, even if they believe in heaven or something. The evidence is to strong.

Why do you think that is?

Yes, we should take the material world at face value. But we should still remain open to the possibility that we do not know certain things. Major names in science were jumping on the world is a simulation train not too long ago. I'm not saying there is a certainty of an afterlife but you cannot effectively disprove it because it is ultimately unfalsifiable as you acknowledge.

The big bang theory cannot adequately explain how our universe came into being and Stephen Hawking himself took a multiverse approach, no real evidence, just speculation because of the problem it presents. Yes you can say gasses but where did they come from? What mechanism causes creation of any of these possibilities that could have resulted in the creation of the universe?

 

[Red Scare]

we should still remain open to the possibility that we do not know certain things.

Scientists do remain open to this possibility, they wouldn't be very good scientists if they didn't. You overexagerate when you say so many of them were "jumping" on a simulation theory. Articles in pop science magazine are not a good source of info.

The big bang theory cannot adequately explain how our universe came into being

False.

and Stephen Hawking himself took a multiverse approach, no real evidence, just speculation because of the problem it presents.

This is not entirely accurate, Hawking never abandoned the Big Bang theory, you should read his no boundary approach. It does a good job of explaining this stuff better than I ever could.

Yes you can say gasses but where did they come from? What mechanism causes creation of any of these possibilities that could have resulted in the creation of the universe?

Gasses didn't come out of nowhere, in the early days of the universe hydrogen and helium were created through fission and it just sort of spirals from there.

 

[Red Scare]

You don't "know" anything. And neither do I. But sooner or later (some of us sooner), we are bound to find out.

Well good for your dad. I do know plenty, I know what I know. I also know that there is a lot I don't know, and that science doesn't know about the universe and nature but that that doesn't negate the knowledge we do have.

 

[ornitier199]

'Will death lead to the Promised Land?'
Nope, you just become one with the planet.

 

[Spiritual survivor]

The body goes back into the dirt. The soul is the breath life and ends with your last breath. Your spirit if u are a believer in Christ and God goes to God into a container until Jesus returns to collect the believers. I know this might sound strange but it's true. There is no immediate entrance to an afterlife. You will have no memory of being alive after death. If u had believed on Jesus Christ, u will be raised up and will have eternal life in a place that is like paradise. You will have a spirit body but it won't be like the flesh body we have here. Your conciousness will return if u had died while here on earth when u are raised up with Jesus when he comes to get us.

 

[Shu]

The body goes back into the dirt. The soul is the breath life and ends with your last breath. Your spirit if u are a believer in Christ and God goes to God into a container until Jesus returns to collect the believers. I know this might sound strange but it's true. There is no immediate entrance to an afterlife. You will have no memory of being alive after death. If u had believed on Jesus Christ, u will be raised up and will have eternal life in a place that is like paradise. You will have a spirit body but it won't be like the flesh body we have here.

The Egyptians believe something pretty similar.

 

[Red Scare]

The body goes back into the dirt. The soul is the breath life and ends with your last breath. Your spirit if u are a believer in Christ and God goes to God into a container until Jesus returns to collect the believers. I know this might sound strange but it's true. There is no immediate entrance to an afterlife. You will have no memory of being alive after death. If u had believed on Jesus Christ, u will be raised up and will have eternal life in a place that is like paradise. You will have a spirit body but it won't be like the flesh body we have here. Your conciousness will return if u had died while here on earth when u are raised up with Jesus when he comes to get us.

Fucking ridiculous. So child molesters, and wife beaters, who "believe in Jesus" in their final moments will be saved. And someone who never harmed anyone and lived a good life, but who didn't believe in Jesus will go to hell.

And of course this is all becuause Adam and Eve are the wrong fruit from the wrong tree.

LOL. We evolved from other animals, there was no garden of eden, no Adam and Eve, which means no original sin, and nothing for Jesus to atone and save us from himself for. Unless you believe evolution is somehow a lie from satan. Lmao.

Also, there is real evidence that a Jesus existed historically. At the most, even biblical New Testament scholars are forced to say the Jesus of the Bible is not a real person, but an amalgam or mythicized story of someone, who may or may not have existed, or several people, who may or may not existed. But one thing is sure, no miracle man who raised from the dead ever existed, that part is pure myth.

 

[Message In A Bottle]

I would like to think my soul will go someplace. I know the more logical reasoning is eternal nothingness, but I like the idea of my spirit living on someplace else. Whether that be as a new person, a translucent being, or another plane entirely - I'm a big dreamer, so maybe that's why.

 

[Graytaichi]

There is nothing after this. U fall into eternal sleep.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

We end. Like a flea or a houseplant or an amoeba. We all end the same way. We cease to be alive and are no more. Hope this happens to me tonight.

 

[dropintheocean]

Buddhism certainly does have a conception of nothing at the end of life, Nirvana. Anatman, non being.

So does Hinduism.

Hi,

This is an interesting topic. Actually reincarnation is pretty solid belief in both buddhism and hinduism. So they do not believe that after death theres nothing. But a soul/mindstream continues after this body dies.

As you mentioned nirvana and anatman. That refers to different aspect than nothing/not being.

Lets talk about buddhist term nirvana. That means full liberation, enlightement. Which in buddhism means seeing through an illusion of solid sense of self in all aspects of ones mind. So according to buddhism nirvana means liberation of the illusion of self. The term often used is emptiness. Emptiness of self, emptiness of phenomena. Which means that all objects and subjects in reality are empty of self. Lets take a car as an example. A car is a car when all its important parts are in their place to make it a car. Same thing with a flower, animal, human. There is no solid, unchanging entity, self, in our mind/body/awareness. Similarly theres no such thing in our psyche; no permanent solid self in our emotions/thoughts. Thats called emptiness of phenomena in buddhism. Anatman means this same thing = no self (no permanent unchanging self in any phenomena).

So emptiness of phenomena or nirvana or anatman doesent mean nothingness or not-existing after death. It means how things/phenomena are in their nature in this life and in other lives. According to buddhism.

:)

 

[issei123]

a better place than here, a kind of paradise i guess i don't know

 

[Red Scare]

Hi,

This is an interesting topic. Actually reincarnation is pretty solid belief in both buddhism and hinduism. So they do not believe that after death theres nothing. But a soul/mindstream continues after this body dies.

As you mentioned nirvana and anatman. That refers to different aspect than nothing/not being.

Lets talk about buddhist term nirvana. That means full liberation, enlightement. Which in buddhism means seeing through an illusion of solid sense of self in all aspects of ones mind. So according to buddhism nirvana means liberation of the illusion of self. The term often used is emptiness. Emptiness of self, emptiness of phenomena. Which means that all objects and subjects in reality are empty of self. Lets take a car as an example. A car is a car when all its important parts are in their place to make it a car. Same thing with a flower, animal, human. There is no solid, unchanging entity, self, in our mind/body/awareness. Similarly theres no such thing in our psyche; no permanent solid self in our emotions/thoughts. Thats called emptiness of phenomena in buddhism. Anatman means this same thing = no self (no permanent unchanging self in any phenomena).

So emptiness of phenomena or nirvana or anatman doesent mean nothingness or not-existing after death. It means how things/phenomena are in their nature in this life and in other lives. According to buddhism.

:)

One of the most fundamental doctrines of Buddhism is anatta, and anattman, or no soul and no self, and thus there is no permanent essence of an individual self there to survive death.

 

[dropintheocean]

One of the most fundamental doctrines of Buddhism is anatta, and anattman, or no soul and no self, and thus there is no permanent essence of an individual self there to survive death.

Yes, according to buddhism the first part is right that theres no individual, permanent, separate self anywhere to be found.

But that conclusion you suggest is not right according to buddhism (or hinduism). The mindstream continues even without a permanent self after death.

The thing is that according to buddhism we dont have that permanent, separate self at all. Not now not after death not Ever. We just think thats who we are. Its a belief of identity. According to buddhism our true identity is awareness, not the small self, and awareness/mindstream continues after death.

So people have this belief of separate self, which isnt there to be found even right this moment, before this body dies. Theres only awareness of thoughts, emotions, body, senses and other phenomena. So this bodymind system = "you" is still alive even this very moment without a solid, permanent, separate self.

Certainly a mindstream (or soul if you want to call it that) can continue and exist after death without a physical body. It now exitst with a physical body, but without a solid permanent unchanging self. According to buddhism.

 

[mandyjohnuk]

Lol. We are probably reborn into this crazy world to live a life of madness again. I can seee this happening over and over.

 

[lmon]

A nothingness you can't fathom

 

[Darkover]

one of two things
nothing forever
rebirth
who knows

 

[Journeytoletgo]

Nothingness and THANK goodness

 

[Eternal Oblivion]

This @Red Scare member is one skeptical soab... I like reading his posts.

 

[unimaginativelamp]

I don't know. Nothingness is the first thing to come to mind. The thought of it is one of the things stopping me from ctb. The idea of nothingness feels terrifying and overwhelming.

 

[Klo]

You should read about the concept of pure lands in buddhism like sukhavati, Amitabha Buddhas pure land. All religions have similar concepts of death not being the end of life. Theres alot of studies about nde's and consciousness not being localised.

Personally I believe our soul/mind continues like buddhism says. And I pray I can reborn in a pure land like sukhavati. Thats why praying to Amitabha Buddha. So I do believe in reincarnation and it makes sense to me personally.

I always believed something similar but I'm not sure anymore. I read "War in Heaven" by kyle Griffith and it kind of freaked me out that our own beliefs or hopes about the afterlife can lead us astray and open us up to further degradation upon death. If the next life is not at least interesting and hopefully pleasant then I hope it is nothing.

 

[lyles]

I'd love for it to be that we go someplace nice, like a place we've always dreamed of. For me it would be a natural area like the pics I put below, with no problems of today (like sickness, war stress). and we'd get to meet people of similar minds to us, make friends and experience things we never got to experience in this life, like being happy and at peace.
But at the same time I think I'm being too optimistic.
In my opinion, the most logical thing that would happen after death is either its like before we were born, just nothing. and it seems like a lot of people struggle to comprehend that. Or reincarnation. Idk why, it just makes sense to me

you have echoed exactly my thoughts and feelings!

Although my personal ideal would be reincarnated in one of my dream worlds, I know that likely isn't the logical outcome. It still brings me happiness and peace, though!

Whatever comes, I hope you are able to find that peace yourself.

 

[Doombox]

Fucking ridiculous. So child molesters, and wife beaters, who "believe in Jesus" in their final moments will be saved. And someone who never harmed anyone and lived a good life, but who didn't believe in Jesus will go to hell.

And of course this is all becuause Adam and Eve are the wrong fruit from the wrong tree.

LOL. We evolved from other animals, there was no garden of eden, no Adam and Eve, which means no original sin, and nothing for Jesus to atone and save us from himself for. Unless you believe evolution is somehow a lie from satan. Lmao.

Also, there is real evidence that a Jesus existed historically. At the most, even biblical New Testament scholars are forced to say the Jesus of the Bible is not a real person, but an amalgam or mythicized story of someone, who may or may not have existed, or several people, who may or may not existed. But one thing is sure, no miracle man who raised from the dead ever existed, that part is pure myth.

Hi. I'm new here. I just wanted to say that, reading through this thread, I'm grateful you are here Red Scare because you echo my own thoughts and beliefs (or lack of belief). We have no evidence whatsoever of an afterlife...just individual anecdote claims that cannot be tested or verified.

 

[Red Scare]

The mindstream continues even without a permanent self after death.

Mind stream?

There is no such concept in Buddhism. Existence itself is fundamentally empty of such phenomenon. All is impermanence. The realization of this, is the liberation from the illusion of a self. You're suggesting a kind of panpsychism, or panentheism but these features are not essential to understanding or practicing Buddhism.

Nirvana is said to be identical with anatta (lit. non-self) and sunyata (emptiness). It is a state of ultimate freedom: freedom from sorrow, but also freedom from happiness. Nirvana is sometimes translated as "To be free from entangled roots," or "To escape from the woven web." In ancient Sanskrit, the three syllables (nir+var+na) have multiple meanings, as a noun it most commonly means "extinction" or "vanishing from sight". There's a verbal root "va", which means "to blow." With the prefic "nir" which changes the meaning to "down" or "out", it becomes the verbal root "nirva", "to cease to blow, to be blown out or extinguished" (like when a candle is blown out). It refers both to the act and the effect of blowing at something to put it out, but also the process and outcome of burning out, becoming extinguished. The particle Nir is a form of negation, meaning "without".

It represents transcendence from suffering, karma, and samsara, and is sought through the extinction of desire and individual consciousness.

Nirvana is also used synonymously with moksha (Sanskrit), also vimoksha, or vimutti (Pali), "release, deliverance from suffering". In the Pali-canon two kinds of vimutti are discerned:

• freedom of mind; it is the qualified freedom from suffering, attained through the practice of concentration meditation (samādhi). Vetter translates this as "release of the heart" which means conquering desire thereby attaining a desire-less state of living.
• freedom through understanding (prajña); it is the final release from suffering and the end of rebirth, attained through the practice of insight meditation (vipassanā).

Nirvana is associated with a meditative attainment, the 'Cessation of Perception/Ideation and Feeling' (sannavedayitanirodha), also known as the 'Attainment of Cessation' (nirodhasamapatti). However in Buddhism there are two types of nirvana, one in life, and one final nirvana upon death; The first nirvana that marks one who has attained complete release from desire and suffering but still has a body, and a second nirvana representing the fading away without remainder, a cessation of everything, giving it up, and relinquishing, or letting it go, without clinging to it. This is the final nirvana, or parinirvana at the moment of death, when there is no fuel left. The main distinction here is between the one who has extinguished the fires of passion/aversion/ignorance in life, and the final "blowing out" of all consciousness at the moment of death (which happens regardless of whether or not one has attained the first kind of nirvana).

Anatta means no abiding self or soul in any being, nor a permanent essence in any thing. This interpretation asserts that reality is of dependent origination, and that subjective perception is ultimately a delusion, a mirage (marici). In Buddhist thought, this illusion must be overcome, through the realization of anatta, which is nirvana.

Sunyata is literally emptiness or nothingness, where all subject-object discrimination and dualities disappear, there is no conventional reality, and only the ultimate reality of emptiness. This refers to the notion that all things are empty of intrinsic existence (svabhava). Perceiving events in the mind and the senses without anything lying behind them. This is called emptiness because it's empty of the presuppositions we usually add to experience to make sense of it. All objects are empty of essence, or intrinsic nature, themselves being only conceptual existents or constructs. Nature is fundamentally empty of such distinctions. Such objects cannot be said to ultimately exist in any way. This is true down to the atomic level.

The Prajñāpāramitā sutras also use various metaphors to explain the ultimate nature of things as emptiness, stating that things are like "illusions" (māyā) and "dreams" (svapna). This sutra describes how all conditioned things are like a bubble, a shadow, like dew, or a flash of lightning. Though we perceive a world of concrete and discrete objects, these objects are "empty" of the identity imputed by their designated labels. In that sense, they are deceptive and like an illusion:

Form is emptiness, emptiness is form
Emptiness is not separate from form, form is not separate from emptiness
Whatever is form is emptiness, whatever is emptiness is form.

This is not too different from concepts found in the Tao Te Ching, or the Upanishads.

Since all things have the nature of lacking true existence or own being (niḥsvabhāva), all things are mere conceptual constructs (prajñaptimatra) because they are just impermanent collections of causes and conditions. Things seem to arise as objects, remain for a time and then subsequently perish, but they are fundamentally empty of any real essence. The realization of emptiness is a key understanding which allows one to reach liberation because it is nothing but the elimination of ignorance/passion/aversion. This emptiness is the absence of duality between perceiving subject and any perceived object.

The present moment is a combination of prior states of the universe, and the laws of nature. Bound by causality in such a way that any state is determined by its prior state. Karma then is not actually a system of retribution or morals, but rather a intricate network of causality. Since all things in the universe are in a state of constant flux, or entropy, rebirth can be said to be taking place constantly, every moment there is a constant change of states from one to the next. This doesn't have to encompass anything metaphysical or supernatural.

Nature itself exists in an all encompassing web of being, it exists in a state of impermanence. Moment to moment your cells, molecules, atoms, are always moving, always in a state of flux, of constant death and rebirth and renewal... and no where among this is there found any real "you", any real essence; we speak of a rock as a rock, and a chair as a chair, but these things are fundamentally empty of any essence, there is no real "chair", no chairy essence, just collections of matter, molecules, atoms, that exist in a state of entropy. In all this there is a continuity of nature, and this is fundamentally empty of any self, any essence.

This ultimately means there is no mind stream, no metaphysical soul. You can speak poetically of the continuity of nature possessing "soul", as an all encompassing being, but this concept like any other is fundamentally empty of any real essence.

 

[Of The Universe]

We end. Like a flea or a houseplant or an amoeba. We all end the same way. We cease to be alive and are no more. Hope this happens to me tonight.

Indeed. People talk sometimes about a " transition." Its like driving on the highway. You transition when you take an exit to a different highway.
When you smash into a garbage truck,that's called an "end."
CTB is an end. Not a transition.

 

[AreWeWinning]

I don't know. And for me, the question is becoming more and more about how to accept that I can't know instead of trying to find out. Because no-one knows, and it's impossible to find out. It's a gamble.