What damage can sn cause if you survive?

[malevolentdiety]

According to Stan's guide the risks are low of damage

 

[rozeske]

I don't want to get bogged down in the science.

Nah. When you are making such claims, and suggesting to keep a glass of OJ as an antidote, which would lead to serious harm to anyone that takes your word for it (yes there are many users like that) you better have something of a concrete evidence and explanation than "drinking OJ makes me feel good after a night out" and "I don't want to get bogged down in the science".

 

[losing hope]

Nah. When you are making such claims, and suggesting to keep a glass of OJ as an antidote, which would lead to serious harm to anyone that takes your word for it (yes there are many users like that) you better have something of a concrete evidence and explanation than "drinking OJ makes me feel good after a night out" and "I don't want to get bogged down in the science".

Dude I've posted 3 sources ALREADY! One of which is a members account whilst they attempted to ctb. In other words the BEST form of evidence! This is on top of my experience. You've not provided any evidence.

Symptomatic patients with methemoglobinemia or those with a significantly elevated methemoglobin level should be admitted to the hospital....

Intravenous (IV) methylene blue is the first-line preferred agent. Intravenous vitamin C, riboflavin, exchange transfusion, and hyperbaric oxygen treatment are second-line options for patients with severe methemoglobinemia whose condition does not respond to methylene blue or who cannot be treated with methylene blue

Methemoglobinemia Treatment & Management: Approach Considerations, Initial Management, Pharmacologic Therapy, Exchange Transfusion, and Hyperbaric Oxygen

Methemoglobin contains iron in the ferric state (Fe3+) rather than the reduced ferrous form (Fe2+) found in hemoglobin. This structural change causes an alteration in the blood’s ability to bind oxygen.

emedicine.medscape.com

Nitrite is an oxidative agent that causes methemoglobinemia in many species. Ruminants are especially vulnerable because the ruminal flora reduces nitrate to ammonia, while nitrite as an intermediate product is 10 times more toxic than nitrate. Acute intoxication is manifested primarily by methemoglobin formation and resultant anoxia.5 The common treatment of methemoglobinemia with methylene blue is potentially hazardous and should not be used specially in patients who may be at risk or suffer from glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency.6 Therefore, the other ways of treatment are suggested for this condition, such as using various vitamins as antioxidant.7

Vitamin C has potentials to scavenge free radicals and protect cells from oxidative damage. Recycling of α-tocopherol by ascorbate has been demonstrated in cellular organelles and erythrocyte membranes.8-11 It also acts as a co-factor for NADP reductase required for glutathione metabolism.12 Furthermore, vitamin C can directly reduce methemoglobin and is proven to treat cyanosis effectively.13

Antioxidant effect of different vitamins on methemoglobin production: An in vitro study

Nitrite intoxication occurs frequently in ruminants and equines. The most common treatment of this disorder is administration of 1% methylene blue, although the use of some antioxidant agents e.g. vitamins and complementary treatment may also be useful. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[ashtoreth]

Cool and happy to have a good debate with anyone who is interested in searching for the truth. Don't care who is proven right or wrong. You sound like you might be such a chap.

I don't want to get bogged down in the science. But whenever I've drunk OJ or taken vitamin C after a night out either on booze or drugs I instantly feel better. Try it yourself and see what you find.

I also remember a girl on here who thought she was ctb'ing with SN but it turned out to be Pro-Cure Sodium NitirAte. Her thread ran I think from Xmas 2022 to new years day 2023 IIRC and she posted photos of herself (a 20 something blonde girl). I think she said she felt better after drinking OJ. If I can find the thread I'll post it here as more proof.

Oh thank you, for being kind and open. I highly appreciate that.
I wouldn't be able to confirm your alcohol experiment, since I strongly dislike the taste of alcohol and the feeling of loss of control, so I never ever drink haha. It could be something else aswell though, I think having read that food helps mitigating drug/alcohol effects. I think it was something like the food delaying drug absorption and therefore softening effects, I have also experienced that often and predictably, and it's logical. I think certain substances might also bind to certain foods, rendering them ineffective, or producing new effects, and other stuff like that.
I could even imagine a placebo effect, I mean, orange juice is often perceived as healthy ... haha, no idea. Placebo effects can be incredible though.
Also I just found an article describing that ingested nitrate can turn intro nitrite if you took an antacid which raised the ph value of your stomach, and that vitamin C inhibits nitrate turning into nitrite. That would support the story of the blonde girl.

 

[rozeske]

Dude I've posted 3 sources ALREADY! One of which is a members account whilst they attempted to ctb. In other words the BEST form of evidence! This is on top of my experience. You've not provided any evidence.

Methemoglobinemia Treatment & Management: Approach Considerations, Initial Management, Pharmacologic Therapy, Exchange Transfusion, and Hyperbaric Oxygen

Methemoglobin contains iron in the ferric state (Fe3+) rather than the reduced ferrous form (Fe2+) found in hemoglobin. This structural change causes an alteration in the blood’s ability to bind oxygen.

emedicine.medscape.com

Antioxidant effect of different vitamins on methemoglobin production: An in vitro study

Nitrite intoxication occurs frequently in ruminants and equines. The most common treatment of this disorder is administration of 1% methylene blue, although the use of some antioxidant agents e.g. vitamins and complementary treatment may also be useful. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It is obviously your choice to do as you please but it would help the community if you could clearly indicate this is your personal opinion rather than suggesting it as a fact and referencing a source that doesn't even prove its effectiveness for SN poisoning.

My personal opinion on the matter is i believe it's a ridiculous idea:

A) a members attempt testimony
posted anonymously, and an odd one at that, could never be referenced as "the best form of evidence"

B) the research on the relation between OJ and nitrite in cured meat is a conclusion that it helps avoid carcinogenics and it suggests "a glass of orange juice with your bacon and eggs will be helpful. However, if you are having more than a single rasher you might want to use a vitamin C supplement." When you look at the permissible ratio of sodium nitrite to meat in cured meat is 200 mg/ kg. So there would only be a fraction of that much nitrite in a single rasher. That 1 glass of OJ is recommended to convert that tiny amount of nitrite. So comparing that to the 25gm of SN dose and suggesting to use OJ incase of aborting SN attempt, imo is RIDICULOUS. But like you said it's still your choice. You do you, as should everyone else. No need to lose sleep over it.

 

[losing hope]

My personal opinion on the matter is i believe it's a ridiculous idea:

My personal opinion on the matter is i believe you haven't got a clue. Hence why you haven't posted any evidence. Thus far I've posted 7 sources include pubmed (the authority on these matters) which states; Furthermore, vitamin C can directly reduce methemoglobin and is proven to treat cyanosis effectively.13

Antioxidant effect of different vitamins on methemoglobin production: An in vitro study

Nitrite intoxication occurs frequently in ruminants and equines. The most common treatment of this disorder is administration of 1% methylene blue, although the use of some antioxidant agents e.g. vitamins and complementary treatment may also be useful. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Something else that undermines confidence in anything you post, is when you said & I quote "it was my way of asking if we should keep a bottle of booze just incase since there are users that owed their failure to having drank alcohol." I had to then reply "No I don't suggest having a bottle of Vodka straight after a failed SN attempt. Nor does that sound like a remotely good idea in my opinion."


And your the one talking about harming others with mis info???


Another personal opinion of mine, is there is no point arguing with .... people. I'll let readers fill in the blank. Goodnight ;-)

 

[rozeske]

My personal opinion on the matter is i believe you haven't got a clue. Hence why you haven't posted any evidence. Thus far I've posted 7 sources include pubmed (the authority on these matters) which states; Furthermore, vitamin C can directly reduce methemoglobin and is proven to treat cyanosis effectively.13

Antioxidant effect of different vitamins on methemoglobin production: An in vitro study

Nitrite intoxication occurs frequently in ruminants and equines. The most common treatment of this disorder is administration of 1% methylene blue, although the use of some antioxidant agents e.g. vitamins and complementary treatment may also be useful. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Something else that undermines confidence in anything you post, is when you said & I quote "it was my way of asking if we should keep a bottle of booze just incase since there are users that owed their failure to having drank alcohol." I had to then reply "No I don't suggest having a bottle of Vodka straight after a failed SN attempt. Nor does that sound like a remotely good idea in my opinion."


And your the one talking about harming others with mis info???

Sure thing, I hear they are now planning of forgoing the process of administering methylene blue to treat SN caused methemoglobinemia and just dose you with vitamin C. Brilliant!

Hence why you haven't posted any evidence.

the research on the relation between OJ and nitrite in cured meat is a conclusion that it helps avoid carcinogenics and it suggests "a glass of orange juice with your bacon and eggs will be helpful. However, if you are having more than a single rasher you might want to use a vitamin C supplement." When you look at the permissible ratio of sodium nitrite to meat in cured meat is 200 mg/ kg. So there would only be a fraction of that much nitrite in a single rasher. That 1 glass of OJ is recommended to convert that tiny amount of nitrite. So comparing that to the 25gm of SN dose and suggesting to use OJ incase of aborting SN attempt, imo is RIDICULOUS.

 

[losing hope]

Sure thing, I hear they are now planning of forgoing the process of administering methylene blue to treat SN caused methemoglobinemia and just dose you with vitamin C. Brilliant!

I've reported you for twisting my words and also the words of Pub med. Dude you need to also learn English, as you needed me to educate you on what the term "counteract" actually meant. Since you thought Vodka "counteracted" SN.

Now you don't seemed to know what the term "evidence" means. And are just providing the mods an example of how you are trying to twist my words to savage that destroyed ego of yours I smashed during this debate.

Oh on a totally unrelated note; I like your msg under your avatar "Maybe I am the problem." Maybe...

As we both agree we & readers can believe what they want. So no need for any more replies is there?

 

[rozeske]

I've reported you for twisting my words and also the words of Pub med.

Good thing you reported it. I'm already quite familiar with the list of your other, I hate to use the word ridiculous so many times, let's just say questionable plans to incorporate in to your ctb plan so I didn't bother to involve a Mod and just decided to point out your misleading suggestion myself, in the hopes of putting a stop to yet another one of the recent "SN is this SN is that" misguided claims.

 

[ashtoreth]

Furthermore, vitamin C can directly reduce methemoglobin and is proven to treat cyanosis effectively.13

Antioxidant effect of different vitamins on methemoglobin production: An in vitro study

Nitrite intoxication occurs frequently in ruminants and equines. The most common treatment of this disorder is administration of 1% methylene blue, although the use of some antioxidant agents e.g. vitamins and complementary treatment may also be useful. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Interesting find!
The vitamin C was associated with an increased methemoglobinemia in the 20 mmol/L-1 condition, though. I wouldn't know how to applicate those results to orange juice consumption. Like, which amount do I need for how much SN? What if I make it worse?

Also I'm sad that we have to fight so often. Just try to stay kind, what we really want is understanding and being understood. We can't have that when we fight. Also I wish we could abstain more often from proclaiming absolute truth. There is no absolute truth in my understanding, because we are unable to know and consider and connect everything that there is. All we get is being on a path to truth proximity with twists and turns and only you are on your own path. We are human and fighting sadly comes naturally with the human mind and that's okay, but we can try our best to limit it. I mean look at this forum, why does it even have to exist. Often because people don't understand and respect each other as much as we would need. You will see that differently, but that doesn't have to mean either perception is entirely invalid. Probably just based on incomplete knowledge and understanding or just a differently shaped perspective, but I have yet to see the person that this doesn't apply to and who has access to the absolute truth or something. We don't even know yet how the thing works that makes us able to consider the thing itself in the first place. How can you be 100% sure about anything at all. Do you even have to be. Man I am truly uncomfortably unhinged today, it has to stop.

 

[losing hope]

Interesting find!
The vitamin C was associated with an increased methemoglobinemia in the 20 mmol/L-1 condition, though. I wouldn't know how to applicate those results to orange juice consumption. Like, which amount do I need for how much SN? What if I make it worse?

Also I'm sad that we have to fight so often. Just try to stay kind, what we really want is understanding and being understood. We can't have that when we fight. Also I wish we could abstain more often from proclaiming absolute truth. There is no absolute truth in my understanding, because we are unable to know and consider and connect everything that there is. All we get is being on a path to truth proximity with twists and turns and only you are on your own path. We are human and fighting sadly comes naturally with the human mind and that's okay, but we can try our best to limit it. I mean look at this forum, why does it even have to exist. Often because people don't understand and respect each other as much as we would need. You will see that differently, but that doesn't have to mean either perception is entirely invalid. Probably just based on incomplete knowledge and understanding or just a differently shaped perspective, but I have yet to see the person that this doesn't apply to and who has access to the absolute truth or something. We don't even know yet how the thing works that makes us able to consider the thing itself in the first place. How can you be 100% sure about anything at all. Do you even have to be. Man I am truly uncomfortably unhinged today, it has to stop.

Thanks for that and couldn't agree more with what you said about fighting. Pretty low to be picking fights on a suicide forum for one's own ego IMO.

 

[YosemiteGrrl]

There is no way to be absolutely sure about something that's never been extensively researched on. You can only do your own research and relay on avaliable resources including the pph and medical reports of SN poisoning, which there is a lot out there. You can make an educated guess though any attempt at taking a life may cause permanent damage. There is one case report I've seen of brain death after SN poisoning. So even if the chances are slim it can happen, especially in an attempt of resuscitation.

Where did you see the report of this brain death after SN? And was the person a living vegetable?

 

[rozeske]

Where did you see the report of this brain death after SN? And was the person a living vegetable?

Here is the report. She was declared brain dead and her family was contacted and agreed for organ donation in line with her wishes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9892231/#:~:text=A%20liver%20derived%20from%20a,transplanted%20safely%20in%20select%20cases.

 

[ashtoreth]

Here is the report. She was declared brain dead and her family was contacted and agreed for organ donation in line with her wishes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9892231/#:~:text=A%20liver%20derived%20from%20a,transplanted%20safely%20in%20select%20cases.

Especially devastating due to
- her changed decision concerning life and death, meaning she wanted to survive at that moment
- the fact that she called for help immediately and it still was too late.

 

[losing hope]

Especially devastating due to
- her changed decision concerning life and death, meaning she wanted to survive at that moment
- the fact that she called for help immediately and it still was too late.

All the more reason to have Vitamin C (and if you can get it Meth Blue) by your bedside just in case you find yourself in that situation. Perhaps if she had MAYBE she might have survived. Can't see any downsides in having them there just in case.

This is a PRO-CHOICE forum after all. So choice also means having the ability to change your mind (& the means like Meth blue by your bedside) even at the last minute.

 

[Dot]

Drinking orange juice caused the below failed SN attempt.

Jen0804

16/09/2019​

Failed Feb 2019. Reason: mixing with orange juice (vitamin c cancels SN). Still became very ill. Still have minor health problems but I am alive

[NOTE: Member suspects orange juice's vitamin C cancelled efficacy of SN.] AsexualBarbieBoy said: "Are the health problems related to the Sn? If so, what are they?" REPLY: "Alopecia. Attempted in February, hair started coming out within that same week and continued until June. It's slowly growing back now, thank god. I'm female and of child-bearing age. My cycles stopped completely so I believe it can mess up hormones/endocrine - not sure about long term fertility or male fertility etc. Immediately after taking it and the whole two weeks after, my kidneys and bowels just werent functioning - I also couldn't feel hunger. I ate an apple and two bites of a hospital sandwich for a whole week or so (drank as normal) but I was so not hungry. There you have it, those are my long term symptoms from s n failure. Not so severe but still a pain."

Source; https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OKnH260kpVBA9_o3_hpvmLW5sdhemQ-d8GC9GwTP2i8/mobilebasic

Ok bt quotng Jen0804 sayng 'Vit C cancls SN' ds nt mke tht claim tru

Sme1 els mixd thr SN wth cka-cla & othr sft drnks & thy faild - pssbly bcse othr substncs intrruptd absorbtn - thn agn othr ppl hve mixd SN wth othr fd & drnk & hve stll passd awy - u r takng sme1 assumptn @ fce-valu whn thre = lttle info t/ spport tht asumptn

Th/ 'bst frm of evdnce' wld b a randmisd cntrol trial or mta-anlysis stdyng thse specfc effcts of Vitmn C on effcts of SN poisnng - nt an anecdotl commnt frm a laymn on an internt frum

Your question on Meth blue reminded me of this thread; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-methylene-blue-kit.100655/

I certainly am going to try to source some like OP did in that above thread. Might even ask my doctor for some saying I have SN.

RE' Orange juice, it has vitamin C in it, which counteracts the effects of SN; https://naturallyconscious.blogspot.com/2010/01/drink-oj-with-your-carcinogenic-cured.html

1 - tht = a blog - nt a scientfc papr

2 - 'th/ effct of SN' -- whch effct - jst bcse tht persn claims tht drinkng OJ lng-trm hlps t/ prevnt cancr in a blg ds nt equ8 t/ nullfyng specfc effcts of SN poisnng whch cre8 methmglobnemia

My personal opinion on the matter is i believe you haven't got a clue. Hence why you haven't posted any evidence. Thus far I've posted 7 sources include pubmed (the authority on these matters) which states; Furthermore, vitamin C can directly reduce methemoglobin and is proven to treat cyanosis effectively.13

Antioxidant effect of different vitamins on methemoglobin production: An in vitro study

Nitrite intoxication occurs frequently in ruminants and equines. The most common treatment of this disorder is administration of 1% methylene blue, although the use of some antioxidant agents e.g. vitamins and complementary treatment may also be useful. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Something else that undermines confidence in anything you post, is when you said & I quote "it was my way of asking if we should keep a bottle of booze just incase since there are users that owed their failure to having drank alcohol." I had to then reply "No I don't suggest having a bottle of Vodka straight after a failed SN attempt. Nor does that sound like a remotely good idea in my opinion."


And your the one talking about harming others with mis info???


Another personal opinion of mine, is there is no point arguing with .... people. I'll let readers fill in the blank. Goodnight ;-)

U r neglectng lts of othr factrs hre

- Ths papr = basd on petri-dsh xpermnts - nt treatng a humn wth concntr8td SN poisnng

- Vitmn C - alng wth methlyn Blu - r usd wth specfc dosng & adminstratn - n.e medcatn usd improprly cn mke thngs wrse evn if tht medcatn sves lves whn usd corrctly

SN concntratn usd fr ths xpermnt ws v lw & only 1/3 vitmn C concntratns lowrd methglbnmia - 1 of th/ concntratns evn increasd th/ effct "Vitamin C at the concentration of 20 mmol L-1, was not effective, but it even increased methemoglobin formation significantly"

s/ as othrs hve sd - u r spredng misnfrmatn whch on ste lke sasu = incrdbly dangrs

shre artcls abt dffrnt treatmnts whch r b-ing investg8td fne - bt d/ nt shre misnfo & undr-rsearchd dta whle presntng tht info as 'proof' & 'fct' & simtneously talkng dwn on othr usrs

 

[heartbroken12]

Reposted on Dot's behalf:

Drinking orange juice caused the below failed SN attempt.

Jen0804

16/09/2019​

Failed Feb 2019. Reason: mixing with orange juice (vitamin c cancels SN). Still became very ill. Still have minor health problems but I am alive

[NOTE: Member suspects orange juice's vitamin C cancelled efficacy of SN.] AsexualBarbieBoy said: "Are the health problems related to the Sn? If so, what are they?" REPLY: "Alopecia. Attempted in February, hair started coming out within that same week and continued until June. It's slowly growing back now, thank god. I'm female and of child-bearing age. My cycles stopped completely so I believe it can mess up hormones/endocrine - not sure about long term fertility or male fertility etc. Immediately after taking it and the whole two weeks after, my kidneys and bowels just werent functioning - I also couldn't feel hunger. I ate an apple and two bites of a hospital sandwich for a whole week or so (drank as normal) but I was so not hungry. There you have it, those are my long term symptoms from s n failure. Not so severe but still a pain."

Source; https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OKnH260kpVBA9_o3_hpvmLW5sdhemQ-d8GC9GwTP2i8/mobilebasic

Ok but quoting Jen0804 saying "Vitamin C cancels SN" does not make that claim true.

Someone else mixed their SN with Coca Cola and other soft drinks and they failed- possibly because other substances interrupted absorption- then again other people have mixed SN with other food and drink and have still passed away - you are taking someone's assumption at face value when there is little information to support that assumption.

The "best form of evidence" would be a randomised control trial or meta-analysis studying these specific effects of Vitamin C on effects of SN poisoning- not an anecdotal comment from a layman on an internet forum.

Your question on Meth blue reminded me of this thread; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-methylene-blue-kit.100655/

I certainly am going to try to source some like OP did in that above thread. Might even ask my doctor for some saying I have SN.

RE' Orange juice, it has vitamin C in it, which counteracts the effects of SN; https://naturallyconscious.blogspot.com/2010/01/drink-oj-with-your-carcinogenic-cured.html

1 - that is a blog not a scientific paper

2 - 'the effect of SN' - which effect - just because that person claims that drinking orange juice long term helps to prevent cancer in a blog does not equate to nullifying specific effects of SN poisoning which creates methmoglobnemia

My personal opinion on the matter is i believe you haven't got a clue. Hence why you haven't posted any evidence. Thus far I've posted 7 sources include pubmed (the authority on these matters) which states; Furthermore, vitamin C can directly reduce methemoglobin and is proven to treat cyanosis effectively.13

Antioxidant effect of different vitamins on methemoglobin production: An in vitro study

Nitrite intoxication occurs frequently in ruminants and equines. The most common treatment of this disorder is administration of 1% methylene blue, although the use of some antioxidant agents e.g. vitamins and complementary treatment may also be useful. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Something else that undermines confidence in anything you post, is when you said & I quote "it was my way of asking if we should keep a bottle of booze just incase since there are users that owed their failure to having drank alcohol." I had to then reply "No I don't suggest having a bottle of Vodka straight after a failed SN attempt. Nor does that sound like a remotely good idea in my opinion."


And your the one talking about harming others with mis info???


Another personal opinion of mine, is there is no point arguing with .... people. I'll let readers fill in the blank. Goodnight ;-)

You are neglecting lots of other factors here.

• This paper is based on petri dish experiments- not treating a human with concentrated SN poisoning
• Vitamin C along with methylene Blue are used with specific dosing and administration - any medication used improperly can make things worse even if that medication saves lives when used correctly
• SN concentration used for this experiment was very low and only 1/3 vitamin C concentrations lowered methemoglobinemia- one of the concentrations even increased the effect: "Vitamin C at the concentration of 20 mmol L-1, was not effective, but it even increased methemoglobin formation significantly"

So as others have said - you are spreading misinformation which on a site is Sasu is incredibly dangerous.

Share articles about different treatments which are being investigated- fine. But do not share misinformation and under-researched data while presenting that information as "proof" & "fact" & simultaneously talking down on other users.

 

[losing hope]

@Mebius recently attempted with 7g's of SN. Survived without any intervention. Was still looking blue 18 hours later. Was advised by forum members to seek medicial treatment. Afterwards when asked if they had gone to hospital they replied;

yes i went to get vitamin c infusion and have recovered (from SN posioning)

see post 29 here; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/most-reliable-method.169863/
& here; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-hospital-has-no-vit-c-or-met-blue.169902/

Am I REALLY the one spreading mis information? Or am I putting a theory out there which is increasingly being supported by evidence? Which is the purpose of a forum like this isn't it?


I think there is a bit of a clique going on within this forum. Because to me the below comment IS misinformation but somehow is allowed to stand?

Sure thing, I hear they are now planning of forgoing the process of administering methylene blue to treat SN caused methemoglobinemia and just dose you with vitamin C. Brilliant!

EDIT; @IntelligentLeg is/was another member who drank OJ after surviving an SN attempt; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/im-alive-after-ingesting-20g-of-sn.105150/page-5#post-1807159 see post 128 onwards. She was also the "blonde girl" whom I refered to in post 30 of this thread.

 

[rozeske]

A very good point has already been made, let it go.

P.S.
I had thought the sarcastic comments were clear as day but I guess not? Apologies on my part for that.

 

[losing hope]

A very good point has already been made, let it go.

P.S.
I had thought the sarcastic comments were clear as day but I guess not? Apologies on my part for that.

Oh I thought this forum was fighting against misinformation so in the interests of finding out the TRUTH. No I can't let it go until the truth is unearthed. Nor should others, because as Dot said, misinformation here can be dangerous!!!

The good point you are referring to having being made, is that you being "wrong" and needing to employ a mod to made your "wrong" into a "right"? For instance, When a woman needs to be right even when she is wrong apparently it really stems from massive insecurity and low self-esteem; https://www.drpsychmom.com/why-your-wife-will-never-say-shes-wrong/

@IntelligentLeg thread shows, some on this forum LOVE to gang up on perceived outsiders because they are introducing new ideas. Turned out @IntelligentLeg was right about Pro-cure not being pukka SN and her thread (which she got abuse from) did this whole community a MASSIVE service at the time. Imagine if she didn't bother replying after being hounded like she did & how many others might have attempted with PC stuff???

Yes it is very well known that sarcastic comments don't work on the internet, and there are ALOT of people who don't even know what sarcasm is. So again in the interests of MISINFORMATION. I would avoid it on a suicide forum. Now I thought that was obvious.

 

[rozeske]

Okay.

 

[Dot]

Oh I thought this forum was fighting against misinformation so in the interests of finding out the TRUTH. No I can't let it go until the truth is unearthed. Nor should others, because as Dot said, misinformation here can be dangerous!!!

The good point you are referring to having being made, is that you being "wrong" and needing to employ a mod to made your "wrong" into a "right"? For instance, When a woman needs to be right even when she is wrong apparently it really stems from massive insecurity and low self-esteem; https://www.drpsychmom.com/why-your-wife-will-never-say-shes-wrong/

@IntelligentLeg thread shows, some on this forum LOVE to gang up on perceived outsiders because they are introducing new ideas. Turned out @IntelligentLeg was right about Pro-cure not being pukka SN and her thread (which she got abuse from) did this whole community a MASSIVE service at the time. Imagine if she didn't bother replying after being hounded like she did & how many others might have attempted with PC stuff???

Yes it is very well known that sarcastic comments don't work on the internet, and there are ALOT of people who don't even know what sarcasm is. So again in the interests of MISINFORMATION. I would avoid it on a suicide forum. Now I thought that was obvious.

'Th/ trth'

All tht hs bn provn abt 'th/ trth' atm = tht vitmn C = b-ing rsearchd & usd as treatmnt in methemglbinmia in hosptls - am nt arguin agnst tht

= othr claims tht u r makng & tht r problmatc & ptentlly dangrous

If the above is true, then it might be an idea to have some methelyne blue & orange juice next to you when attempting. So if someone does "save" you or you back out of your attempt. Then your likely to mitigate any long term brain damage as much as you can.

If ppl tke ur OJ advce as gospl thn = opns up possblty tht sme usrs mght devlp a flse snse of scurty tht thy cn survve an SN attmpt if thy kp sme Tropicana in th/ frdge - tht mght gve thm confdnce t/ mke an attmpt tht thy mght nt othrwse hve dne hd whch cld kll thm

If u r tellng ppl abt treatmnts whch u belve mght hlp thn u nd t/ b transprnt abt th/ rsks & bck up ur claims wth sme accur8 info - am & nt talkng abt helth-blgs & tht 'OJ mde u fl bettr aftr a hng-ovr'

SN poisnng = sers & nds t/ b treatd wth th/ gravty tht cmes wth an attmpt - ths = abt mch mre thn b-ing 'rght' or 'wrng' & also th/ casul sexsm & talkng dwn t/ othr membrs cn stp


If u wnt t/ kp methlyne blu & OJ @ ur hme thn tht = ur chce bt n.e1 thnkng abt doin th/ sme nds t/ remmbr th/ follwng --

• OJ cntains apprx 1% of vitmn C availblty thn tht of IV adminstratn whch = givn in hosptls (Sourc) - & tht = w/o vomtng tht inevtbly happns aftr SN ingestn s/ wld b unlkely t/ kp n.e dwn n.ewy
• As slf alrdy sd abve - dosng = imprtnt & th/ artcle linkd abve alrdy showd tht diffrnt dosngs gve diffrnt rsults - sme dosngs causd imprvemnt & othrs xacrb8td th/ methemglbinmia
• As wth Vit C - methlyn blu nds specfc dosng & adminstratn
• Th/ treatmnt tht u linkd abve ws frm sme1 wh/ tk a non-fatl amnt fr thm & thy wre givn IV adminstratn frm qualfid medcl professnls 18 hrs aftr ingestn
• Whle thre r questns abt whthr OJ mght rduce absorptn of SN whle ingestng thse agn r nt provn atm

Slf undrstnd tht SN anxty = rl & tht ppl challnge knwldge of othrs bt agn th/ sggestns tht u r makng & thn doublng dwn on r - agn - dangrous

If sme1 drnks SN thn thy nd 2 accpt tht thre = signfcnt chnce tht thy r goin2 di & if thy chnge thr mnd thn thy nd medcl intrventn

If u thnk u wll chnge ur mnd thn hve sme1 withn contct wh/ cn cll EMS fr u or evn bettr d/ nt tke th/ SN in th/ 1st plce

 

[rainwillneverstop]

translated for dot

If the above is true, then it might be an idea to have some methelyne blue & orange juice next to you when attempting. So if someone does "save" you or you back out of your attempt. Then your likely to mitigate any long term brain damage as much as you can.

"The truth"

All that has been proven about "the truth" at the moment is vitamin C is being researched and used as a treatment for methemoglobinemia in hospitals - and I'm not arguing against that.

Is other claims that you are making and that are problematic and potentially dangerous

Oh I thought this forum was fighting against misinformation so in the interests of finding out the TRUTH. No I can't let it go until the truth is unearthed. Nor should others, because as Dot said, misinformation here can be dangerous!!!

The good point you are referring to having being made, is that you being "wrong" and needing to employ a mod to made your "wrong" into a "right"? For instance, When a woman needs to be right even when she is wrong apparently it really stems from massive insecurity and low self-esteem; https://www.drpsychmom.com/why-your-wife-will-never-say-shes-wrong/

@IntelligentLeg thread shows, some on this forum LOVE to gang up on perceived outsiders because they are introducing new ideas. Turned out @IntelligentLeg was right about Pro-cure not being pukka SN and her thread (which she got abuse from) did this whole community a MASSIVE service at the time. Imagine if she didn't bother replying after being hounded like she did & how many others might have attempted with PC stuff???

Yes it is very well known that sarcastic comments don't work on the internet, and there are ALOT of people who don't even know what sarcasm is. So again in the interests of MISINFORMATION. I would avoid it on a suicide forum. Now I thought that was obvious.

If people take your orange juice info as gospel, then it opens up the possibility that some users might develop a false sense of security, that they can survive an SN attempt if they keep some Tropicana in the fridge.
That might give the confidence for an attempt that they might not otherwise take which could kill them.

If you are telling people about treatments which you believe might help then you need to be transparent about risks, and back up your claims with some accurate information - and I'm not talking about health blogs and that "Orange juice made you feel better after a long hangover"

SN poisoning is serious and needs to be treated with the gravity that comes with an attempt - that is about much more than being 'right' or 'wrong' and also the casual sexism and talking down to other members can stop.

If you want to keep methylene blue and orange juice at your home, then it's your choice but anyone else thinking about doing the same needs to remember the following:

- Orange Juice contains approximately 1% of vitamin C availability than that of an IV administration which is given in hospital (source) - and that is without vomiting that inevitably happens after SN ingestion so would be unlikely to keep any down anyway.

- As I have already said above, dosing is important and the article linked above already showed that different dosages gave different results.
- As with vitamin C - methylene blue needs specific dosing and administration.
- The treatment that you linked above was from someone who took a non fatal amount for them and they were given IV administration from a qualified medical professional 18 hours after ingestion.
- While there are questions about whether orange juice might reduce absorption of SN while ingesting these again are not proven at the moment.

I understand that SN anxiety is real, and that people challenge knowledge of others but again, the suggestions that you are making and then doubling down on are again - dangerous.

If someone drinks SN then they would need to accept that there's significant change that they are going to die, and if they change their mind then they need medical intervention.

If you think you will change your mind then have someone within your contact, who can call EMS for you or even better, do not take SN in the first place.

 

[Linda]

I can not see any biochemical reason why vitamin C would have much effect on SN. I'm not saying I'm certain that it can't, but I am saying that in the absence of good experimental data, based on proper clinical trials (preferably double blind, and using a sufficiently large sample size) proving that there is such an effect, scepticism is warranted.
It is known that vitamin C can increase haemoglobin levels, but that's a long term effect, i.e. too slow to be relevant to SN, and the increase is slight.

 

[Dot]

I can not see any biochemical reason why vitamin C would have much effect on SN. I'm not saying I'm certain that it can't, but I am saying that in the absence of good experimental data, based on proper clinical trials (preferably double blind, and using a sufficiently large sample size) proving that there is such an effect, scepticism is warranted.
It is known that vitamin C can increase haemoglobin levels, but that's a long term effect, i.e. too slow to be relevant to SN, and the increase is slight.

Recnt rsearch ws wth sdium ntrite in prti-dishs

Antioxidant effect of different vitamins on methemoglobin production: An in vitro study

Nitrite intoxication occurs frequently in ruminants and equines. The most common treatment of this disorder is administration of 1% methylene blue, although the use of some antioxidant agents e.g. vitamins and complementary treatment may also be useful. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Linda]

Recnt rsearch ws wth sdium ntrite in prti-dishs

Antioxidant effect of different vitamins on methemoglobin production: An in vitro study

Nitrite intoxication occurs frequently in ruminants and equines. The most common treatment of this disorder is administration of 1% methylene blue, although the use of some antioxidant agents e.g. vitamins and complementary treatment may also be useful. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks Dot. In that research they gave the vitamin C first, and the SN later. Is that relevant to our situation? I don't know - and I doubt that anyone else knows either. A crucial missing detail is the rate at which vitamin C would take effect if administered after SN, and the paper doesn't address that at all. I still think scepticism is warranted, for the present.

 

[Dot]

Thanks Dot. In that research they gave the vitamin C first, and the SN later. Is that relevant to our situation? I don't know - and I doubt that anyone else knows either. A crucial missing detail is the rate at which vitamin C would take effect if administered after SN, and the paper doesn't address that at all. I still think scepticism is warranted, for the present.

Thre r paprs whre Vit C hs bn usd as altrn8tve treatmnt fr methglbnmia bt agn rsults r mixd fr eithr treatng or causng symptms & also OJ cntains v lw amnts & thre = 0 rsearch t/ shw tht = wld b thrpeutc @ thse levls


Vit C sccessflly treatng methglbmnia in hosptl settng

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0736467917311034

Vit C causng methglbnmia

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0735675720304642

Slf typd "vitamin C treatment methemoglobinemia" in2 googl scholr fr thse paprs

 

[losing hope]

If you are telling people about treatments which you believe might help then you need to be transparent about risks, and back up your claims with some accurate information

I thought I had been transparent against the risks within this thread that by saying things like "take what I say above with a pitch of salt." post #6

or

"If the above is true, then it might be an idea to have some methelyne blue & orange juice next to you when attempting. So if someone does "save" you or you back out of your attempt. Then your likely to mitigate any long term brain damage as much as you can. Post #9

or

Cool and happy to have a good debate with anyone who is interested in searching for the truth. Don't care who is proven right or wrong. Post #30.

Also I've provided lots of sources (including Pubmed & 4 different members reports) to back up my claims. So I seem to be accused of something I haven't done. By contrast sarcastic misinformation (post #49), calling this theory "ridiculous" without any supporting evidence (post #35). Then there is this comment;

But you also haven't provided any evidence that vodka wouldn't help me if I changed my mind. And the government hasn't funded for any research on that matter either sooo who is to say that it wouldn't be a good idea?

In the interests of combatting misinformation, being transparent about risks, and back up claims with some accurate information. How are all the above seemly allowed to go ahead uncorrected on this thread?

 

[rozeske]

You know, when someone does the research for you and takes their time to write in such detail providing relevant source, it's not only a courtesy to read All of it but it can actually help you understand why the points you brought up are dengerous, of no proved use for SN poisoning and how insufficient and contradictory data there is out there.

 

[losing hope]

You know, when someone does the research for you and takes their time to write in such detail providing relevant source, it's not only a courtesy to read All of it but it can actually help you understand why the points you brought up are dengerous, of no proved use for SN poisoning and how insufficient and contradictory data there is out there.

That isn't the point I was making from my previous post (number #58).

We all (so INCLUDING me) accept the data on Vit C isn't conclusive as an EFFECTIVE antidote for SN. I've even "liked" @Dot @Linda & @rainwillneverstop posts above talking about the negatives using Vit C so have read them in full thank you. But there is SOME evidence to suggest it helps. This is DESPITE you consistently trying to shut down any discussion of this. Like your sarcastic misinformation (post #49), calling this theory "ridiculous" without any supporting evidence (post #35) etc.

So the point I was making from my previous post (number #58). Is why have the mod's picked me up on stuff I don't believe I've done whilst letting you off the the VERY things they are accusing me of? I am also providing examples to back up my claims like in post #58 as to me it seems like a clique going on here & I am calling it out. I've also been falsely accused by a mod in particular & had to fight VERY hard to get a fair trial on this forum which @Dot knows about. Also @IntelligentLeg's thread (& others) to me shows this forum isn't always welcoming of outsiders. Which is strange for a suicide forum, but there you go.

This isn't talking down to you, I am telling you this to HELP you. But you really do need to improve your English skills before replying. Because you needed me to educate you on what "counteract" meant, you are failing to address several of my points, hence why things escalated in this thread, in what should have been a routine discussion. You thought it was a good idea to be scarastic on a suicide forum about the treatment of SN poisioning. And now you can't spell "dangerous" as you spelt it "dengerous" in your previous post.

Also I would like to add, NOT everyone on this forum is a scientist, I think @Dot knows my background is a published author of F1 books from a previous chat about Schumacher crying at Monza 2000 at the post race interview. So I have NO background in science. So when I say "I don't want to get lost in science" my motivation is NOT to double down with the science. It's because I would rather leave that to the experts like posts #52 to #57. But I do want to ENSURE common sense is kept in any debate. Like the fact that @Mebius @IntelligentLeg & me do find it helps when recovering from posioning. As we know LOTS of sciencists don't always remember common sense.

Also I feel it's been a REAL drag to discuss this issue, whereas for instance when @Linda brought up hypothermia within this thread; https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...ate-way-of-ending-it-all.169348/#post-2568241 She didn't have even a fraction of the abuse I seem to have got in this thread. So I'm asking why are the rules seemly applied differently for different members?