We're on the news (for the 999999th time)

[Pen>Sword]

Someone told me about the NY times article. Only reason I ever found this place.

Oh boy. Free advertisement! NYT sure knows how to use deterrence.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

Well yeah, such as scammers, bullshitters, weird creeps, whatever. It makes no sense to ever discuss how any of this should be collectively responded to.

Come on, you're better than this.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

This is a bad post - there's an awful tendency on this forum to tell grieving parents that it's their fault their loved one died, that they are murderers by default, that they should hold themselves entirely responsible for their own grief, it's most unbecoming and people should give some thought to how this shit sounds before typing it out.

First off theres a difference between explaining that people have some blame, and outright calling them "murderers by default". Is the post that guy made tactful? No, but it needs to be stated that its not okay to go looking to blame people for someone's suicide unless you're ready to look at yourself. I get that the person is grieving - that does not make it okay. People who suffer like we do? We don't get a pass on shitty behavior because we suffer, as we shouldn't. Neither does someone whos grieving, especially when it threatens what small sanctuary we have here.

The guy's post was shitty but you're exaggerating what he was trying to communicate. You have a huge tendency of quoting someone, and then going under the guise of addressing "the forum" and exaggerating what the person said. If you have a problem with what someone said, address them directly, if you have a problem with an idea or a mindset, then explain how you yourself feel about something. Stop this "tendency on the forum" thing. The core of your arguments aren't even wrong but your approach and phrasing comes off as so damn arrogant. You speak as if you're on the outside looking in. You're here with us, dude.

 

[LastFlowers]

They're just going to ignore any attempts to do so anyway and still go after whoever is running the site at the moment. Turning polite and submissive isn't going to make them stop and they'll just continue to use the examples they cherry pick from the angry posts even when it's justified or they'll continue to make nonsensical conclusions even from completely innocuous posts.

They don't even seem to actually care to focus on all the posts that actually insult them either, often times they screenshot the regular posts from people simply expressing their views on suicide as a whole even when it has nothing to do with FT26 or grieving parents and using that to demonize us. You're suggesting we rise above but if we actually could, I bet some of us wouldn't really even need to be here in the first place so to sit crudely on the fence and saying "do better" every time we get attacked isn't going to motivate anyone either.

The community is still one that encourages freedom of choice, so why is it so wrong if some people are making the choice to actually defend themselves instead of just sitting there and taking it or forcing them to gentrify their words just to suit the sensibilities of people who don't even actually care about any of us.

Yes. There are also ways about constructing retorts which eliminate some of the sulfuric raw energy behind them, and instead still allow us to come across in our pleas with strength-virile without being virulent.
I just don't know that everyone understands how to tailor their words in that way, and if people suffering to such a degree have the capacity to throw themselves into learning how to.
Which is the argument many of those behind F26 and StopSS, etc apply toward their own behavior, it's just a crock of hypocrisy.

(This next part is not directed at you, but at another talking point of this thread..)
I don't think there is anything wrong with supporting the 'right to die' and the more political discussion behind it, while being a member of this site, it's a contribution that is the least some of us can do, and it is much needed to push forward with opening more doors to dying with dignity and medically assisted suicide, the taboo needs to be obliterated, I don't know why anyone would have a problem with that when it's practically half the reason this site exists in the first place.
If someone doesn't want to get personally involved in that type of discourse, then nobody is stopping them from exiting the conversations about it.

 

[Chinaski]

First off theres a difference between explaining that people have some blame, and outright calling them "murderers by default". Is the post that guy made tactful? No, but it needs to be stated that its not okay to go looking to blame people for someone's suicide unless you're ready to look at yourself. I get that the person is grieving - that does not make it okay. People who suffer like we do? We don't get a pass on shitty behavior because we suffer, as we shouldn't. Neither does someone whos grieving, especially when it threatens what small sanctuary we have here.

The guy's post was shitty but you're exaggerating what he was trying to communicate. You have a huge tendency of quoting someone, and then going under the guise of addressing "the forum" and exaggerating what the person said. If you have a problem with what someone said, address them directly, if you have a problem with an idea or a mindset, then explain how you yourself feel about something. Stop this "tendency on the forum" thing. The core of your arguments aren't even wrong but your approach and phrasing comes off as so damn arrogant. You speak as if you're on the outside looking in. You're here with us, dude.

Yeah l did address him directly. And yeah l did remark upon it being a "tendency on the forum" because I've seen similar posts more than once. There are more than one in this thread. It's not isolated.

Regarding the latter point it seems you have less an issue with the content, to which you state some agreement, and more of an issue with my tone. I'm not sure how you'd prefer me to express myself so you probably need to advise me further.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Yeah l did address him directly. And yeah l did remark upon it being a "tendency on the forum" because I've seen similar posts more than once. There are more than one in this thread. It's not isolated.

Regarding the latter point it seems you have less an issue with the content, to which you state some agreement, and more of an issue with my tone. I'm not sure how you'd prefer me to express myself so you probably need to advise me further.

I wouldn't go so far to call it an issue, at least for me. I like that you're opinionated and unabashed. I'm just trying to explain how it can also come off as abrasive. If you address someone, and then the community back-to-back like that, it can come off as if you're putting words in peoples mouths because you're addressing both what that specific person said AND what other people have said, and it can get muddy.

 

[Chinaski]

(This next part is not directed at you, but at another talking point of this thread..)
I don't think there is anything wrong with supporting the 'right to die' and the more political discussion behind it, while being a member of this site, it's a contribution that is the least some of us can do, and it is much needed to push forward with opening more doors to dying with dignity and medically assisted suicide, the taboo needs to be obliterated, I don't know why anyone would have a problem with that when it's practically half the reason this site exists in the first place.
If someone doesn't want to get personally involved in that type of discourse, then nobody is stopping them from exiting the conversations about it.

That isn't a talking point of this thread tbh and is something of a tangent - can you be clearer about who and what you're referring to?

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

can you be clearer about who and what you're referring to?

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

I wasn't gonna say it.

 

[Chinaski]

I wouldn't go so far to call it an issue, at least for me. I like that you're opinionated and unabashed. I'm just trying to explain how it can also come off as abrasive. If you address someone, and then the community back-to-back like that, it can come off as if you're putting words in peoples mouths because you're addressing both what that specific person said AND what other people have said, and it can get muddy.

My posting style is hardly indirect and there is very little room for any misunderstanding which is not done deliberately imo, also there are worse things to be around here than "abrasive" tbf.

 

[Snake of Eden]

the thread has been derailed from its original purpose into into heated exchange. No further comments will be posted as a result. Sorry for inconvenience and thank you for understanding