We need an honest discussion on age in here

[Partial-Elf]

"If you kill yourself before you turn 25, we shall... hang your corpse! By the neck! In the gallows!"

While I do understand where the OP is coming from, I can't bring myself to agree. Their argument seems to be based on the inherent assumption that life is, on average, inherently preferable to death, and that people must 'exhaust all options' before they turn to it. They seem to be imbuing life with a sanctity that I do not believe it possesses. There is no generalizable reason to prefer life to death, and thus while it is arguable that life could get better than it is when one commits suicide, there is no way to compare the state of death to this better life - which is the comparison necessary to make a judgment here.

(Sorry for the twisted verbiage, but I believe it is necessary to speak in the generalized abstract here, and not simply say that 'every person is different'. That's also a somewhat weightless statement to use since the point of rules is to try to generate the best possible outcome in the majority of use cases.)

I don't agree that we can't compare the two states, assuming you're not religious. Assuming death is eternal oblivion, I think we can compare those two things. Even though I haven't experienced non existence, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt I'd prefer it to spending the rest of my life being physically tortured or in prison. It's not that far of a leap to prefer eternal oblivion over a life plagued by mental illness and other kinds of confinement.

This smart Stanford man says the same thing if you like appeals to authority.

 

[RM5998]

I don't agree that we can't compare the two states, assuming you're not religious. Assuming death is eternal oblivion, I think we can compare those two things. Even though I haven't experienced non existence, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt I'd prefer it to spending the rest of my life being physically tortured or in prison. It's not that far of a leap to prefer eternal oblivion over a life plagued by mental illness and other kinds of confinement.

This smart Stanford man says the same thing if you like appeals to authority.

I found the previous video in the series to be more relevant. He talks about abandoning the two-state requirement for determining happiness, using what I see as a contrived argument to justify an intuitive example. To me, trying to make statements on principles of rationality based on 'this seems intuitively right' is a bad idea - Newton's laws seem intuitively right but are in fact erroneous.

To put my argument in plainer terms, I believe there is no generalizable rational way to compare life and death without placing an arbitrary value on death. And while placing such an arbitrary value might be useful in letting people consider their individual decisions on their own terms, they are useless for rule-making since they are based on extremely shaky ground.

 

[Conflicted Cat]

No. Please stop gatekeeping. There's been a lot of gatekeeping on death here recently. I know younger people tend to think differently, but that doesn't change the serious unfixable issues that they might have in their lives. What we should be doing, is helping them look at all of their other options and alternatives first. See if it really is that bad, and not just an exaggeration. After that, live or die, that's their decision.

 

[Imgonnadie]

It's not arbitrary at all.
There are scientific research that indicates that one's brain is not fully developed until age 25

sure that sounds a little better but it's still arbitrary as fuck. That wanting to ctb is automatically attributed to that and whatever small percentage brain development up until then predicates your right to choose

 

[ithappens]

I've been suicidal since I was about 11 (first suicide attempt at 12). I am now 23 and little has changed in terms of me wanting to CTB and suffering. Perhaps some of the sources of my suffering have changed but I am old enough to have learned that this world is 99.99999999999999999% suffering/cruelty 0.00000000000000001% happiness/pleasure. And maybe that is just the way my brain processes things. But no medication or therapy or exercise or anything else has changed it and as far as I am concerned this shit is not worth it.

 

[Partial-Elf]

I've been suicidal since I was about 11 (first suicide attempt at 12). I am now 23 and little has changed in terms of me wanting to CTB and suffering. Perhaps some of the sources of my suffering have changed but I am old enough to have learned that this world is 99.99999999999999999% suffering/cruelty 0.00000000000000001% happiness/pleasure. And maybe that is just the way my brain processes things. But no medication or therapy or exercise or anything else has changed it and as far as I am concerned this shit is not worth it.

accurate

 

[Seekingpeacenow]

I CTB'd at 18 and was brought back. I'm in my 40s and one of the biggest regrets I've had was that I didn't die that day. Things never got better. It's been a progressive shit show. However I think many CTB over things that can change. Like breakups or other various things. I remember a boy hung himself when I was young over his gf breaking up with him. He had a good family. Good life and ended it over a stupid middle school relationship. Shit like that is frustrating and heartbreaking. Now when you are talking about kids that say have been abused relentlessly their entire lives, have chronic pain or illness, have suffered SRA or unspeakable trauma that they likely won't ever recover from no matter how much therapy they get...different story. I think it depends on the person and the situation. Either way I don't think it should be spontaneous. It should be an absolute last resort over years of pain with no other options and you have already tried everything. And then tried them 20 more times to get well, for things to change etc.

 

[Bulletwbttrflywings]

i`m 18x3 but wish i had ctb when i 1st wanted to at 14

I like your mathematical style

 

[RM5998]

I CTB'd at 18 and was brought back. I'm in my 40s and one of the biggest regrets I've had was that I didn't die that day. Things never got better. It's been a progressive shit show. However I think many CTB over things that can change. Like breakups or other various things. I remember a boy hung himself when I was young over his gf breaking up with him. He had a good family. Good life and ended it over a stupid middle school relationship. Shit like that is frustrating and heartbreaking. Now when you are talking about kids that say have been abused relentlessly their entire lives, have chronic pain or illness, have suffered SRA or unspeakable trauma that they likely won't ever recover from no matter how much therapy they get...different story. I think it depends on the person and the situation. Either way I don't think it should be spontaneous. It should be an absolute last resort over years of pain with no other options and you have already tried everything. And then tried them 20 more times to get well, for things to change etc.

Umm... I'd argue that any standard that we use to judge whether another person's suicide is justified or not is missing the point. In this world, we are all free to make catastrophic mistakes that ruin our lives - we should be allowed to end it on our own terms, no matter what the reason is.